How many hours to get good serve?

but it's crazy for people to tell someone to be a 5.0 as an adult, you need to spend $5-$10k.

Why is it crazy, crazy is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome and you keep saying the same thing over and over again with no evidence. Sounds like you're a cheapskate. If someone wants to improve their serve or anything else like taking dance, golf, swim or croquette lessons, it will cost money and if they have the money they can spend it on whatever they want. Just because you don't want to spend the money doesn't mean others who can and do are crazy. I'd much rather spend my money on something that will make me feel better about myself then to some shrink, what's so crazzy about that?
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Why is it crazy, crazy is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome and you keep saying the same thing over and over again with no evidence. Sounds like you're a cheapskate. If someone wants to improve their serve or anything else like taking dance, golf, swim or croquette lessons, it will cost money and if they have the money they can spend it on whatever they want. Just because you don't want to spend the money doesn't mean others who can and do are crazy. I'd much rather spend my money on something that will make me feel better about myself then to some shrink, what's so crazzy about that?
why is it that we spend so little time practicing serve ? even in team practice or drills, we spend like 3 minutes practicing serve tops....lol
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Generally people aren't very bright or they would.
exactly, Serve is critical to our game especially so in advanced levels, and in intermediate levels as well. especially since, if we serve well and hold serve most of the time then we do everything else well too......not sure why that is...but it is so
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Why is it crazy, crazy is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome and you keep saying the same thing over and over again with no evidence.

I think @dr7 disagrees with @TimeToPlaySets because in his (dr7's) experience, one doesn't need to spend that much. I agree with dr7.

Sounds like you're a cheapskate.

Now aren't you the one concluding something with no evidence? Where in dr7's previous posts indicate anything about reluctance to spend $? I don't remember that.

If someone wants to improve their serve or anything else like taking dance, golf, swim or croquette lessons, it will cost money

I don't think anyone's arguing it won't take time and effort and practice. What was being debated is how much it will cost. $10K seems very high to me.

and if they have the money they can spend it on whatever they want. Just because you don't want to spend the money doesn't mean others who can and do are crazy.

It has nothing to do with whether he WANTS to spend the money and everything to do with how much needs to be spent and how effective that would be.
 
S&V, it's very generous of you to take on the thankless job of being the moderator for this forum, you must have a lot of time on your hands. Personally, I'm using my time to practice my serve and working so I can pay for my tennis lessons.

Cheers
 
exactly, Serve is critical to our game especially so in advanced levels, and in intermediate levels as well. especially since, if we serve well and hold serve most of the time then we do everything else well too......not sure why that is...but it is so
Well put! I play with a variety of players because I come from a public courts background and that's the way it was. I worked during the week and the courts were courts were crowded on the weekends. You hung your racket up on the fence and waited your turn, you could be up against anyone from a beginner to a ranked player who was slumming. Today I still take on all comers, and in the end that's how you improve, playing about 30% against players better then you, 30% against players worse then you and about 40% against players about the same as you. As per the serve, the 3.5's in rec matches, warm-up with mini tennis at the net mostly (not practicing volleying in the air but mostly gossiping), a few erratic baseline shots and then "let's play, FBI"--NO practice serves--then they average at least one or two DF's per service, and have NO idea of what a 2nd. serve is, they just pancake it in. Where as the 5.0's and tournament players, warm-up from the baseline first, take a few volleys, a few OH's and then take serves, some from each side, catching the ball and not returning it until they want to signify they are ready to play--this is the same routine done in every tournament on the planet.

I can hardly wait for the board mod, S&V to deconstruct this now, have at it.
 
3 assumptions:
- The serve is the most difficult shot in tennis because of the many variables involved
- The lower the level of player, the less they've mastered any given shot
- Mastery of the serve is the least of all shots

Whoever is serving is therefore at a disadvantage because they have to start every point with the most difficult/least-mastered shot.

If instead of looking at % of servers holding serve, imagine if 2 equal opponents at a low level played but one had to serve every game. I would bet, all other things being equal, the receiver would win because he doesn't have the opportunity to DF. Yes, he can make an error on the return but that's only AFTER the serve has gone in. Some % of the time, it won't.

Your assumptions go against everything I've read in a tennis book or heard from a tennis pro, or commentator on TV that : THE SERVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SHOT IN TENNIS! And, is the one that should be learned first and practiced the most--but, maybe they are all wrong an YOU are right. If so, open an academy across from Bolleteri's and they will be flocking your way after you produce a #1 player. You know what happens when you "assume"...

The fallacy in your assumption is that the receiver has a better return of serve then the server's serve. The advantage the server has is, that he does not have to move while serving (or as little as possible not to screw-up his ball toss), but the receiver does have to hit a ball, that he has no idea where it will be hit to, while running. The two best players of the current era Sampras and Fed had great serves, not the fastest, but over-all best hitting all the locations with an occasional 2nd. serve ace to keep 'em guessing and make 'em crazy. You don't learn all the spins and locations without a LOT of practice and under the watchful eye of a great coach.
 

dr7

Rookie
Why is it crazy, crazy is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome and you keep saying the same thing over and over again with no evidence. Sounds like you're a cheapskate. If someone wants to improve their serve or anything else like taking dance, golf, swim or croquette lessons, it will cost money and if they have the money they can spend it on whatever they want. Just because you don't want to spend the money doesn't mean others who can and do are crazy. I'd much rather spend my money on something that will make me feel better about myself then to some shrink, what's so crazzy about that?

You can spend your money however you want, feel free to send me some. If you keep making the same mistakes over and over again, then you have big problem as you don't have the ability to understand the issue and self correct. Take a lesson and UNDERSTAND WHY you are having a problem so you can fix it when you are playing. A big part of tennis is knowing "why"and that can be discovered in 1 lesson. Take what you learned and go out and play, play, play. Once again, it depends on the person, but, IMO, if you have to pay $5-$10k to attempt to get to 5.0, you are a long way from being 5.0. A teaching pro isn't going to tell you, "you will never get to 5.0,"they will take your money and they will know in the very first lesson whether or not 5.0 is even in the cards for you. Get some instruction and go out and Play. Try to find opponents that are a little bit better than you, that is how you improve, playing people who are a tad better and having the knowledge to self correct. Just my opinion, less instruction and more Play, play, play..
 
You can spend your money however you want, feel free to send me some. If you keep making the same mistakes over and over again, then you have big problem as you don't have the ability to understand the issue and self correct. Take a lesson and UNDERSTAND WHY you are having a problem so you can fix it when you are playing. A big part of tennis is knowing "why"and that can be discovered in 1 lesson. Take what you learned and go out and play, play, play. Once again, it depends on the person, but, IMO, if you have to pay $5-$10k to attempt to get to 5.0, you are a long way from being 5.0. A teaching pro isn't going to tell you, "you will never get to 5.0,"they will take your money and they will know in the very first lesson whether or not 5.0 is even in the cards for you. Get some instruction and go out and Play. Try to find opponents that are a little bit better than you, that is how you improve, playing people who are a tad better and having the knowledge to self correct. Just my opinion, less instruction and more Play, play, play..
Totally disagree, if you think you can learn a slice, a flat, a top 2nd. serve in one lesson then you my friend are respectfully the "crazy" one. And add to that "THE LOCATIONS", slice wide, top to the T, into the body (the inner thigh) flat wide, flat to the T, top into the body-- in ONE LESSON--I guess what you don't know, you don't know--after spending a lot of time and mullah, I know what I know--and have a really good serve--or should say serves since there are many. I know what I know and I don't deride what I don't know.
 
if you have to pay $5-$10k to attempt to get to 5.0, you are a long way from being 5.0.
That's the point isn't it? And you'll NEVER get there without expert coaching and that costs money. I know plenty of ladies, who have spent a lot on clinics, from the "coach", who I can beat and whose asked me to hit with his student in a private, because he wasn't up to it. Mostly he has a following of 3.5 ladies who come out to cheer him on, when he makes a rare foray into a social tournament, member-guest or a 4.5/5.0 league dust-up . They aren't too bright, and after years of clinics show no improvement--I tell them to ask for their money back, they haven't been taught a new grip, court position or a tactic or a strategy in twenty years of lining up and taking clinics. But, tennis to them is "social", they just want to work up a little sweat, and talk about restaurants, movies and golden retrievers and white labs--the pocket pups are making inroads, since they can be put in a tennis bag and brought to the clinic. BUT, when you come across a real tennis coach you know it--you have to be a little bright.

You have played sports and have acquired transferable skills to tennis and more importantly how and what it takes to learn a sport--the so called process. Most rec/club players were NEVER on a team, sat and sit at a desk most of their life, and are in desperate need of a coach to guide them. I'm sure you as a retired jock have your tennis buds who share with you for free but others not in your circumstances have to pay for it.
 
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dr7

Rookie
That's the point isn't it? And you'll NEVER get there without expert coaching and that costs money. I know plenty of ladies who have spent a lot on clinics from the same "coach" who I can beat and aske me to hit with his student in a private because he wasn't up to it. Mostly he has a following of 3.5 ladies who cheer him on when he makes a rare foray into a tournament. They aren't too bright and after years of clinics show no improvement--I tell them to ask for their money back. But, tennis to them is "social" and they just want to work up a little sweat. BUT, when you come across a real tennis coach you know it--you have to be a little bright.

You have played sports and have acquired transferable skills to tennis and more importantly how and what it takes to learn a sport--the so called process. Most rec/club players were NEVER on a team, sat and sit at a desk most of their life, and are in desperate need of a coach to guide them. I'm sure you as a retired jock have your tennis buds who share with you for free but others not in your circumstances have to pay for it.

It's just my opinion, get some instruction, but you don't need to spend $5-$10k and be able to understand "Why", so you can self correct when you go out and play. It's not that people don't need instruction, just believe you can get results by understanding and playing. Over and out.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
To get to 5.0+ with good technique and strong strokes costs more time and money than any adult is really able to put in.

My coach had me serve 150 serves in the morning, 150 before practice and some nights 150 after practice

550 serves on the toughest days, but now I have a great serve that is barely attacked.

That's over a period of 3-4 years
 
It's just my opinion, get some instruction, but you don't need to spend $5-$10k and be able to understand "Why", so you can self correct when you go out and play. It's not that people don't need instruction, just believe you can get results by understanding and playing. Over and out.
Dr7, I believe you said you played some form of pro-ball, I bet you had a coach, someone paid him a salary. Since it was a team he was paid by the team. And the major league team paid for the minor league farm team and maybe some money from tickets. Tennis is not a team sport except for Davis Cup, somewhat for college and leagues. So tennis players, if they're juniors wanting to become pros or a stray adult who wants to be the best he can be, the most expedient way it to pay a coach. The pros at futures and challengers share coaches if they can't afford full time ones, which usually they can't. That's another way of doing it, Chinese fire-drill clinics aren't going to cut it. Real coaches are few and far between, but when you find one you'll know it. One who does it in a clinic form, with his students playing out points, interspersed with frequent chalk-talks, is a more economical way of doing it, but still costs money--coach has to eat too.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
you will not have a good, serve especially on a windy day, or under pressure. AND, then there's that "Your'e only as good as your second serve thing..."
It is really hard to serve well on a windy day. Played yesterday in some strong wind. Had to give up on my first serve and hit only really spinning slice serves for both serves.

My opponent hit 8 fault serves in a row one game.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
S&V, it's very generous of you to take on the thankless job of being the moderator for this forum, you must have a lot of time on your hands. Personally, I'm using my time to practice my serve and working so I can pay for my tennis lessons.

Cheers

Says you! I'm saving up the massive bucks they're paying me to get $10K scraped together for some 5.0-busting lessons. At this rate, it will only be another...wait, they aren't paying me. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Well put! I play with a variety of players because I come from a public courts background and that's the way it was. I worked during the week and the courts were courts were crowded on the weekends. You hung your racket up on the fence and waited your turn, you could be up against anyone from a beginner to a ranked player who was slumming. Today I still take on all comers, and in the end that's how you improve, playing about 30% against players better then you, 30% against players worse then you and about 40% against players about the same as you. As per the serve, the 3.5's in rec matches, warm-up with mini tennis at the net mostly (not practicing volleying in the air but mostly gossiping), a few erratic baseline shots and then "let's play, FBI"--NO practice serves--then they average at least one or two DF's per service, and have NO idea of what a 2nd. serve is, they just pancake it in. Where as the 5.0's and tournament players, warm-up from the baseline first, take a few volleys, a few OH's and then take serves, some from each side, catching the ball and not returning it until they want to signify they are ready to play--this is the same routine done in every tournament on the planet.

I can hardly wait for the board mod, S&V to deconstruct this now, have at it.

I agree with everything you said, also having been a product of public courts. Nothing to deconstruct. I never got to play against a ranked player on those public courts, though.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Your assumptions go against everything I've read in a tennis book or heard from a tennis pro, or commentator on TV that : THE SERVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SHOT IN TENNIS!

And I agree. I never said that it wasn't the most important shot in tennis. What I said was that it is also the most difficult shot in tennis for a beginner to master because there are so many variables to keep track of. Once you hit intermediate and beyond, you've internalized most of those things and now you can concentrate on refining your technique. You no longer have to worry about turning sideways, using a Conti grip, using your legs, tossing the ball in your strike zone, etc. A beginner has to worry about all of those things and more.

And, is the one that should be learned first and practiced the most--but, maybe they are all wrong an YOU are right. If so, open an academy across from Bolleteri's and they will be flocking your way after you produce a #1 player. You know what happens when you "assume"...

it's not a matter of "right vs wrong" but that I'm looking at a different variable [difficulty vs importance].

The fallacy in your assumption is that the receiver has a better return of serve then the server's serve.

I didn't assume that. My conclusion is based on the observation that the server has to execute successfully before the returner has to do anything. If the serve is indeed the most difficult shot, the person serving has the first opportunity to make an error; the returner can have the worst return in the world and will still win the point if the server can't get the ball in. Hence my Blackjack analogy: even though the player and the dealer both busted, the dealer still takes the player's money because the player busted first [the returner wins the point because the server made the first error].

The advantage the server has is, that he does not have to move while serving (or as little as possible not to screw-up his ball toss), but the receiver does have to hit a ball, that he has no idea where it will be hit to, while running. The two best players of the current era Sampras and Fed had great serves, not the fastest, but over-all best hitting all the locations with an occasional 2nd. serve ace to keep 'em guessing and make 'em crazy. You don't learn all the spins and locations without a LOT of practice and under the watchful eye of a great coach.

I don't disagree with anything you've written. I'm not arguing against those points. I'm talking about something tangential.

Also, the level that best illustrates my idea is rank beginner. You're not talking about beginners. You've likely forgotten how difficult learning to serve was since it was so long ago [either in terms of years or experience].
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Email I got from Will. he saids anyone can serve 100 mph serves if you unlock the kinetic chain. and anyone can unlock this kinetic chain. Is this true ? I didn't think any player below 4.0 can really serve that hard even with good lessons for the serving technique ??




That's a picture of the serve speed app you get for free when you join "The 100 MPH Club"...

Which turns your phone into a "radar gun" that will let you measure your serve speed to within +/- 2 miles per hour.

New technology is cool, huh? :)

But you know what's even cooler? With the app, you canMEASUREyour progress.

I've been telling you how "The 100 MPH Club" will have you serving 100 miles per hour, or faster...

But it's one thing for me to say it...

And it's another thing entirely for you to be able to measure your before, and after, serve speeds, to see for yourself that you're servingWAYfaster...

100 miles per hour, or more...

Simply by joining "The 100 MPH Club" and following Dr. Kovacs' 8 step-by-step progressions for syncing your Kinetic Chain.

So here's the deal:

When you join "The 100 MPH Club," we're going to hook you up with the "radar gun" serve speed app for free, as a bonus for joining the program...

(There are directions on how to download it to your phone inside the members portal.)

First thing you'll want to do is measure yourBEFOREserve speed, so you have a baseline...

And then once you apply Dr. Kovacs' training, measure yourAFTERserve speed.

It's really as simple as that. We wanted to give you an app that will let you measure your progress, instead of me just saying something will happen without any way to prove it.

Here's your link to join, today:

CLICK HERE for "The 100 MPH Club" + "radar gun" serve speed app

Talk soon,

Will
 
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