How many of these Slams was Thiem gonna win without Djokodal?
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
RS
Bionic Poster
Think slight edge to Del Potro.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
You voted 5 in the poll.
let's add for comparison:
the weak era mug Roddick:
reached #1 in ranking
won 1 GS
lost 4 GS finals
so, without Fed, we are talking about someone who had 5 GS titles on his racket and reached #1 at a very young age.
what a mug and clown.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
The poll excludes 2020 USO
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Thiem wins more hypothetical Slams than Roddick, 6 to be more specific:
2017 RG
2018 RG
2018 UO
2019 RG
2020 AO
2020 USO
And Roddick achieved the #1 in the pre-Big 3 era, when there was a vacuum between a retired Sampras and a Federer who was a non-factor in Slams on clay and hard. Obviously, Thiem would be #1 right now without Nadal and Djokovic, as he is the current world #3.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
2014 RG - I doubt it, way too early and lacking experience. Nadal beat him in R2. Likely winner between Ferrer / Murray / Gulbis / Cilic / Tsonga.
2016 RG - would favour Murray.
2017 RG - would favour Wawrinka due to big final experience and proven delivery.
2018 RG - yes this is winnable.
2018 UO - possible, though Del Potro could take him out.
2019 RG - favourite.
2020 AO - strong favourite.
Looking at 2-3 additional Slams
2016 RG - would favour Murray.
2017 RG - would favour Wawrinka due to big final experience and proven delivery.
2018 RG - yes this is winnable.
2018 UO - possible, though Del Potro could take him out.
2019 RG - favourite.
2020 AO - strong favourite.
Looking at 2-3 additional Slams
sorry to tell you mate, but 2017 RG and 2018 USO don't count, cause he lost in SF and QF.
In that case let's add to Roddick:
USO 2001
USO 2002
AO 2003
W 2003
AO 2004
USO 2004
AO 2005
AO 2007
AO 2009
AO 2010
USO 2011
thus increasing Roddick's hypothetical wins to 16 (1 title + 4 finals + 11 QF/SF)
1. Murray reached #1 in the Big 3 era, so it's possible
2. wasn't Fed a weak era Fraud?
which vacuum are you talking between Sampras and Fed? the vacuum was between Sampras and Nadal / Djokovic, isn't it?
Mistake.
Pheasant
Legend
Man, tough to say. Thiem almost threw away the 2020 USO. I just don't know how his nerves would hold up against somebody like Delpo. Zverev cramped up during that pathetic 2020 final, which allowed Thiem to win. Neither player looked like he wanted to win that 2020 USO.
2019 RG and 2020 AO look winnable. But after his 2020 USO, I'm not so sure.
2019 RG and 2020 AO look winnable. But after his 2020 USO, I'm not so sure.
AO 2020 looks winnable?
he chocked it as soon as he was in the winning position.
it would be winnable if his final opponent was S. Zverev
D
Deleted member 775898
Guest
Thiem lost 2 consecutive WTF finals to Tsitsipas and Medvedev and got straight setted by Zverev in a clay Masters final. Based on that, Thiem's bad record in big finals doesn't seem exclusively related to Djokodal and more to him being a bad big match player. I honestly wouldn't put past him to lose a RG final to Schwartzman. I seriously wouldn't.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
You can add Wimbledon 2003 and other QF/SF losses only if Roddick lost them to a member of the Big 3. So nope, not 16 hypothetical Slam wins for Roddick, because in the vast majority of those QF/SF losses Roddick wasn't facing a member of the Big 3.
Both at RG 2017 and the USO 2018, Thiem was facing a member of the Big 3. I am not adding hypothetical Slams to losses against guys not being the Big 3.
1. Big 3 didn't exist in 2003
2. Thiem has a history of choking in the big finals, and the only reason he has the USO title, is because Zverev chocked even more and unfortunately for both of them, in tennis only 1 can lose, while the other one has to win
so, if you award titles so easily to Thiem, when he would likely find ways to lose those tournaments, you have to award them same easy to Roddick.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Federer in 2003 did play the Wimbledon 2003 SF against Roddick, and Federer is a member of the Big 3. You can add Wimbledon 2003 as a hypothetical plausible Slam win for Roddick.
Topspin 365
Rookie
He needs to get over his nerves. The nerves seem to go away when he hits through the ball and not just stay in extensive topspin rallies. If he developed more options on his serve for more free points, that might help him win some important finals.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Don't worry he is gonna win plenty more even with them around.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Let me guess, starting next year?
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Lol both against fed. Dont you think fed can make a match out of at least one of them?
BackhandDTL
Hall of Fame
Yet Thiem is somehow Fed’s daddy. For the purported GOAT and the most overrated player of all time, I wonder how that managed to happen
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, I don't think fed makes AO 2020 final necessarily in djokovic's absense - he had his injury issues.
RG 19 yes - I think Thiem would outlast Fed, but you are right there is a chance he crumbles mentally.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Just the 3 Slams where he lost the finals.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Simple, he played against Fed when he had a knee surgery and in his late 30s. Although I don't really see what Fed has to do with this thread.
Any other questions?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Without Fed, Roddick wins 2003 Wimb, 2004 Wimb, 2006 USO, 2009 Wimb, possibly 2007 AO and his 2003 USO that he already possesses. I count 6 as well. Has a chance at 2005 Wimb, which would put him at 7. So your math is off.
Thiem won the most depleted slam of all time and was lucky to even win it, but yeah, he'd surely be no.1 in 2003
Roddick became no.1 in a time when Agassi was still playing and Federer was a slam winner and an ATG on grass. Spare me this pre-Big 3 era nonsense. Thiem is lucky as it is that Djokodal are in their 30's and he is a generation younger than both.
But most importantly, he doesn't kiss no.1 in 2003 thanks to his horrible record in big finals.
Last edited:
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I'd certainly favor Delpo at 2018 USO over Thiem. A sick Delpo managed to beat Thiem in 2017.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem played better than Del Potro in USO 2018. The difference is that Nadal was still able to play the match against him until the end.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Doesn't really matter. Thiem has proven that he can beat 2 of the Big 3 only to lose to a Medvedev or Tsitsipas afterwards.
he can beat anyone before the final, just to lose the final, unless his opponent finds a way to choke more than Thiem does
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
No
No
30% chance
Delpo wins
Delpo wins
40% chance
Raonic in the final, I'm not sure what would have happened
RS
Bionic Poster
Might be a tad harsh tbh. Think Thiem is favoured in the last 2 even though RG 19 would be close.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I don't usually like to be harsh, but this is what it is.
Thiem is not the player to be trusted in big finals at all, sir. Especially when the opponents are Wawrinka, Del potro, Federer, Murray etc.
It may have happened that he wouldn't have won any of the options OP gave to us. The Austrian is a very nice guy, but certainly not someone to raise his level in important moments.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
Without Djokodal career extension, we would have had a Thiem era, a bit like Hewitt's, but better. It would have been a bit like Henin, actually. Thiem would have won a few RGs, an AO and a USO. He'd have a good five slams. Another player would have popped up in Djokodal absence. Maybe Zverev would have achieved more. Maybe Tsitsipas and Medvedev would have.
clout
Hall of Fame
2014 RG - definitely not, Timmy was a fetus then
2016 RG - he’d have an outside shot but Murray would be the solid favourite
2017 RG - 50/50 in the finals vs Stan
2018 RG - on clay, I’d favour Thiem over Delpo
2018 USO - honestly Thiem played better here than he did in 2020. Since we’re taking Djokodal out of the picture, beating Delpo and Nishikori is certainly doable but not a slam dunk (esp the Delpo match)
2019 RG - very likely he wins
2020 AO - very likely he wins
So somewhere between 3-6 slams, including the ‘20 USO he won irl.
There is an actual chance that we’d be in the “Thiem era” since 2017ish if not for Djokodal
2016 RG - he’d have an outside shot but Murray would be the solid favourite
2017 RG - 50/50 in the finals vs Stan
2018 RG - on clay, I’d favour Thiem over Delpo
2018 USO - honestly Thiem played better here than he did in 2020. Since we’re taking Djokodal out of the picture, beating Delpo and Nishikori is certainly doable but not a slam dunk (esp the Delpo match)
2019 RG - very likely he wins
2020 AO - very likely he wins
So somewhere between 3-6 slams, including the ‘20 USO he won irl.
There is an actual chance that we’d be in the “Thiem era” since 2017ish if not for Djokodal
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