How many other ATG candidates have a 3-6 Finals record at a slam on a surface they are supposed to be GOAT of?

You know, you had a moan at @Sunny014 for this for Nadal before his temp departure, and yet here you are doing the same with Djokovic. So how is it any better?
I will concede this threat might stir some bad feelings, but it can't be compared to Sunny's relentless efforts, come on.

I am actually bringing a valid point without any insults, and my post only took 1 line.

Do you think my point isn't valid? Why is it valid to question Nadal "only" having 7 slams outside of clay while it is a crime to bring up factual data like this that puts into question Djokovic's legacy? I know you are a reasonable guy and you'll come around. You may question my intent ;) but not the thread itself.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
As a big basketball fan I find it absolutely hilarious how the exact same arguments about making finals vs losing before the finals are used by Djokovic fans in place of LeBron and Rafa/Fed fans in place of Jordan.

No difference between fanboys of any sport really.
If Messi didn't play for Barcelona, United would have won the Champions League in 2009 and 2011. (y)

This fanboy does not believe that to be true.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
I will concede this threat might stir some bad feelings, but it can't be compared to Sunny's relentless efforts, come on.

I am actually bringing a valid point without any insults, and my post only took 1 line.

Do you think my point isn't valid? Why is it valid to question Nadal "only" having 7 slams outside of clay while it is a crime to bring up factual data like this that puts into question Djokovic's legacy? I know you are a reasonable guy and you'll come around. You may question my intent ;) but not the thread itself.
Look, it's fine you want to take your shot at Djokovic, there is clearly no love lost between you and Novak. ;)

However, let me tell you as a Djokovic fan, that yes your title is inflammatory, because it is have a nice chuckle at the expense of Novak, now, honestly that happens all the time, and not just with Novak, but with Federer and Nadal, they all get trashed...what I find interesting is that you complained....quite passionately I might add in those Sunny threads, and yet it makes me think that had Sunny, who basically trashes everyone on a rotating weekly basis, trashed Djokovic, you might have been endorsing him instead of calling him out.

You can't complain about someone doing something you don't like, and then do the exact same thing but with the person you would prefer it to be, and then pretend its all good. And you're a good poster, but I saw how rattled you were by his continuous posting that eventually got him banned, and here you are following in his footsteps. :)
 
Look, it's fine you want to take your shot at Djokovic, there is clearly no love lost between you and Novak. ;)

However, let me tell you as a Djokovic fan, that yes your title is inflammatory, because it is have a nice chuckle at the expense of Novak, now, honestly that happens all the time, and not just with Novak, but with Federer and Nadal, they all get trashed...what I find interesting is that you complained....quite passionately I might add in those Sunny threads, and yet it makes me think that had Sunny, who basically trashes everyone on a rotating weekly basis, trashed Djokovic, you might have been endorsing him instead of calling him out.

You can't complain about someone doing something you don't like, and then do the exact same thing but with the person you would prefer it to be, and then pretend its all good. And you're a good poster, but I saw how rattled you were by his continuous posting that eventually got him banned, and here you are following in his footsteps. :)
Hitman, first of all, I am deeply offended by your implication that I am a good poster.

Second of all, I never reported Sunny, and honestly I can't remember the last time I have reported anyone.

Third, how would you like me to focus this thread in a non-offensive way? What angle should I use? I'm stating a simple fact, and it is what it is. Facts may be uncomfortable to hear, but they are never offensive, they are just facts. Do you really think that Sunny was stating "facts"? Please, don't compare me to Momo Stand Boy, that is even more offensive than your accusation that I am a good poster. ;)
 
Trolling of the highest order :)
Come on, now. I am actually bringing a valid point, am I not? I want somebody to explain to me how Nadal having only 7 non-clay slams (outside his favorite surface, competing in the era of the two GOATs in those surfaces) can be accused of being lackluster when Djokovic has a 3-6 Finals record in a HC slam. Seriously, this is a simple observation. Hasn't anyone thought about it before?
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Hitman, first of all, I am deeply offended by your implication that I am a good poster.

Second of all, I never reported Sunny, and honestly I can't remember the last time I have reported anyone.

Third, how would you like me to focus this thread in a non-offensive way? What angle should I use? I'm stating a simple fact, and it is what it is. Facts may be uncomfortable to hear, but they are never offensive, they are just facts. Do you really think that Sunny was stating "facts"? Please, don't compare me to Momo Stand Boy, that is even more offensive than your accusation that I am a good poster. ;)
Yeah, I know, I just P1$$ people off.


I never said you reported him, I am saying you complained passionately in his thread. Clearly he was reported by others.

And thirdly, what gets me here is not the novelty of the thread, but the timing of it, and I think you know what I mean by that. :D
 
Yeah, I know, I just P1$$ people off.


I never said you reported him, I am saying you complained passionately in his thread. Clearly he was reported by others.

And thirdly, what gets me here is not the novelty of the thread, but the timing of it, and I think you know what I mean by that. :D
OK, I see what you are saying now. Yes, it was bad timing. Then again, I can barely predict what I am going to do within the next two minutes, I am a loose bullet.

Maybe I'll bring the point up at a more convenient time in the future? ;)
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Come on, now. I am actually bringing a valid point, am I not? I want somebody to explain to me how Nadal having only 7 non-clay slams (outside his favorite surface, competing in the era of the two GOATs in those surfaces) can be accused of being lackluster when Djokovic has a 3-6 Finals record in a HC slam. Seriously, this is a simple observation. Hasn't anyone thought about it before?
I ain’t sayin anything. I like the fun…

 

Nole Slam

G.O.A.T.
I guess it means that unlike Nadal on clay, Djokovic is a flawed HC GOAT candidate. But if he's not the HC GOAT, then no one really is. You can't be the HC GOAT with 1 Slam fewer than your rival.
 
I guess it means that unlike Nadal on clay, Djokovic is a flawed HC GOAT candidate. But if he's not the HC GOAT, then no one really is. You can't be the HC GOAT with 1 Slam fewer than your rival.
With the right context and an appropriate set of moving goalposts anything is possible. ;)

 
Yeah, I know, I just P1$$ people off.


I never said you reported him, I am saying you complained passionately in his thread. Clearly he was reported by others.

And thirdly, what gets me here is not the novelty of the thread, but the timing of it, and I think you know what I mean by that. :D
BTW, It is not as much about the content as it is about the delivery. For example, @vive le beau jeu ! is perhaps the biggest Nadal hater in the world, yet he has more brain cells in one of his bowel movements than @Sunny014 in his complete oeuvre, and hence you will never see me complain about his invectives against the Rusty Peak Injured Bull whatever whatever. ;)

BTW, if @Spencer Gore is reading this post, oeuvre is not those little food dishes that you have at parties.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Do you believe this? Forget about Sunny (please), and even about Rafa.
Matching weak arguments with weak arguments can't be that much fun, can it?
I don't know why it's important -- even in GOAT-world -- to have surface GOATS, but since HC seems to come down to Fed and Novak:

If Novak has 12 HC slams to Fed's 11, and they're pretty even in other HC stats, why would Novak's 6 USO finals losses be a bad thing?
Wouldn't that be better -- for those years -- than having (say) 3 SFs, 1 QF and 2 R of 16s?
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Great question and raises some interesting points.
Sunny014 is gone? What? Why do all the good ones go?
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
Better question is if players are hurting their legacy by making it to finals instead of losing early?

Also, for the 1000th time, slow and fast HC are different things. Fast HC plays closer to grass than to slow HC.

And Djokovic has a 9-0 record at the "slow HC" Slam.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Better question is if players are hurting their legacy by making it to finals instead of losing early?

Also, for the 1000th time, slow and fast HC are different things. Fast HC plays closer to grass than to slow HC.

And Djokovic has a 9-0 record at the "slow HC" Slam.
AO has been fast since 2017 and Novak has won three in a row there.
 

Kralingen

Legend
If Novak has 12 HC slams to Fed's 11, and they're pretty even in other HC stats, why would Novak's 6 USO finals losses be a bad thing?
Wouldn't that be better -- for those years -- than having (say) 3 SFs, 1 QF and 2 R of 16s?
Better question is if players are hurting their legacy by making it to finals instead of losing early?
you guys should watch some LeBron highlights. ;)
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
AO has been fast since 2017 and Novak has won three in a row there.
That's a good argument, though it's not true for prime Djokovic at the very least. He was always better on the slow AO than USO, except for his early years 2007-2010 (minus 2008), due to the aggressive nature of his game back then.

you guys should watch some LeBron highlights. ;)
Not familiar with NBA. What's the context?
 

Rudiiii

Rookie
Well there is really no real reason, from 2007 till 2011 better players stopped him there(Fed and Nadal). In 2013 he got denied by one of the best Rafa versions(also Djokovic played really tense during whole year), in 2016 he didn't deserve to reach final(his half succed bad), so obviously lost to better player. Then we have this year, I mean he played cold/hot during whole tournament, had Zed in SF and then Med in F, two best hard court players beside himself, was really drained mentally from OG, and on stake was CYGS. And then we have 2012, clearly best chance to win USO, but gods played their role, and Murray's Scottish roots(windy region :D). Had he won USO that year, IMO his USO score would be a lot different, to win back to back titles is always a huge booster for the years to come. So if we exclude first two losses(obviously lost to much better players), he is 3/4 in finals, not so bad for him. There is also physical part as it is last slam in year, most players play their best game on slower hard courts, so you have to consider depth of tour, his bad history with fans there too... So many aspects to consider, but wouldn't you think reaching 9 finals there(I think most in history) is really great achievement?
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
you guys should watch some LeBron highlights. ;)
It's hard to compare even the most dominant player in a team sport to an individual sport athlete, but of course I'm with your point.

When Brady was "stuck" on 4 SB wins with Montana, these arguments went around. Brady made it - at the time - to two additional SBs, and some held it against him.

(Of course, in football, especially, even in a QB-centered league, the QB can only control so much.)
 

BlueB

Legend
Since you are going by surface, Nole's hard court slam finals tally is 12/18. Fed is 11/14. Not only that he's got one extra win, but got there more often and in a shorter time span.

Also, he's the only man, ever, to play in every slam's finals 6 or more times.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
This is something Djokovic gets too much crap for because reaching 9 US Open finals is a pretty remarkable achievement regardless of the conversion rate. It demonstrates his superb consistency at that event.

The real mark against him is that his level at the US Open very rarely hit the heights of his AO triumphs. I mean, you can find classic Djokovic HC masterclasses in the 2008, 2011, 2013, 2016, and 2019 editions of the AO. I’m probably missing a few more hidden gems. You don’t see that kind of peak-level hard court display in many of his US Open runs, do you?

In 2011, he was great all around but he never reached unstoppable heights. A Fed who wasn’t at or even particularly close to his best held match points against him, and we all know his serve was quite off in the final. He was even suffering from an injury in the fourth set but Nadal couldn’t capitalize.

In 2015, outside of the Cilic match, he was never really at his best. Even in the final against Federer he played worse than in the 2011 semifinals.

He looked pretty good in 2018 but that was probably his weakest Slam win in terms of the draw so it’s difficult to gauge just how good he was (in a similar fashion to Fed’s Wimbledon 2017 run the previous year).

No, I think the absolute best Djokovic has played at the US Open was in the 2012 tournament before the final. Some really shocking stuff from him, particularly in the Del Potro beatdown. But that hot streak was in (perhaps not even) one tournament.

I think Djokovic’s consistency at the US Open deserves some high praise, but I haven’t been as impressed by his peak level there compared to the AO.
 

Nate7-5

Professional
But what about this stat.....but what about this stat......but what about this stat......

Who cares anymore
 
Top