How many Slams does 2015 Djokovic win in the presence of 05 Federer, 05 Nadal & 05 Safin?
- Thread starter Razer
- Start date
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Real peak, NOT hypocritical peak.
Peak | vs Top5 | T5 Weight | vs Top10 | T10 Weight | vs T11+ | T11+ Weight | vs All | Opp Rank | Opp Elo |
Nole 11-16 | 91 (66-25) 72.53% | 19.08% | 174 (140-34) 80.46% | 36.48% | 303 (287-16) 94.72% | 63.52% | 477 (427-50) 89.52% | 18 | 2086 |
Fed 04-09 | 67 (44-23) 65.67% | 13.59% | 121 (91-30) 75.21% | 24.54% | 372 (351-21) 94.35% | 75.46% | 493 (442-51) 89.66% | 26 | 2017 |
Rafa 08-13 | 73 (47-26) 64.38% | 15.60% | 133 (93-40) 69.92% | 28.42% | 335 (313-22) 93.43% | 71.58% | 468 (406-62) 86.75% | 23 | 2045 |
Lendl 84-89 | 74 (52-22) 70.27% | 15.81% | 116 (83-33) 71.55% | 24.79% | 352 (333-19) 94.60% | 75.21% | 468 (416-52) 88.89% | 27 | 2014 |
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
GRASScaraz
Professional
Report card for Fedr
2005 Wimbledon: Once again, it's Hewitt and Roddick. His QF opponent was Fernando Gonzalez, who was not very good on grass. And Hewitt and Roddick were weaker in 05 than they were before.
2005 US Open: Headcase Nalbandian in the QF, good 'ole Hewitt in decline in the SF, and old, horrible back Agassi, who couldn't move, in the final, scaring him early in the match before the back became too much.
2005 Wimbledon: Once again, it's Hewitt and Roddick. His QF opponent was Fernando Gonzalez, who was not very good on grass. And Hewitt and Roddick were weaker in 05 than they were before.
2005 US Open: Headcase Nalbandian in the QF, good 'ole Hewitt in decline in the SF, and old, horrible back Agassi, who couldn't move, in the final, scaring him early in the match before the back became too much.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Who cares lol.
SecondToNone
Semi-Pro
CYGS
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
well the most probable choice is not in the options...
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Mardy Fish believes Federer 2005 and Djokovic 2011 are the 2 best players he played against.
"2011 Novak Djokovic and 2005 Roger Federer were the best players I've ever played" - Mardy Fish
Novak Djokovic's level in 2011 was the best tennis has ever seen, according to former American professional Mardy Fish.
www.sportskeeda.com
Alcaraz praised 2005 season already.
Do you think pro players are stupid to talk highly of 2005 Federer ?
0. Peak Djokovic loses to 2005 Federer everywhere. He’s losing in straights to 2007 AO Federer.
Post-peak 2011 and 2012 Fed defeated Djokovic at RG and Wimbledon. At the USO, he was at the verge of defeating Djokovic in 2011. Allegedly Supreme peak Djokovic.
So, Peak Djokovic has a massively low chance against 2005 AO Federer. If you give, for arguments’ sake, 2007 Federer, it’s 0. Ridiculously low chance of putting up a fight against 2005 AO Federer, since he lost to Safin on an amazing Safin match.
Post-peak 2011 and 2012 Fed defeated Djokovic at RG and Wimbledon. At the USO, he was at the verge of defeating Djokovic in 2011. Allegedly Supreme peak Djokovic.
So, Peak Djokovic has a massively low chance against 2005 AO Federer. If you give, for arguments’ sake, 2007 Federer, it’s 0. Ridiculously low chance of putting up a fight against 2005 AO Federer, since he lost to Safin on an amazing Safin match.
Oddly, his best chance in 05 would have been RG, if he was in the other half from Fedal.
2nd best would have been AO, if he faced Safin in the final. Don't think Safin could outshine back to back.
Low change in Wimbledon and USO, as he would have to face peak Fed on fast HC and grass. USO might be a bit more competitive, a close 4?
2nd best would have been AO, if he faced Safin in the final. Don't think Safin could outshine back to back.
Low change in Wimbledon and USO, as he would have to face peak Fed on fast HC and grass. USO might be a bit more competitive, a close 4?
FlyingSaucer
Semi-Pro
Only GOATwrinka can stop the inevitable!
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
no i think that fed is stupid. he self said many times that he was better player in his 30s.Mardy Fish believes Federer 2005 and Djokovic 2011 are the 2 best players he played against.
"2011 Novak Djokovic and 2005 Roger Federer were the best players I've ever played" - Mardy Fish
Novak Djokovic's level in 2011 was the best tennis has ever seen, according to former American professional Mardy Fish.
Alcaraz praised 2005 season already.
Do you think pro players are stupid to talk highly of 2005 Federer ?
rafa said that nole played on highest level but he is stupid too and he played nole only 60 and fed 50 times.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Would Djokovic have even dominated the Australian Open if it had stayed on Rebound Ace, like it was from 1988-2007? The irony is that Lleyton Hewitt detested Rebound Ace, and even accused Tennis Australia of sabotaging his attempts to win the Australian Open by persisting with it.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Wouldn't surprise me if Coria still beat him.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Wiki Warriors
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Neptune
Hall of Fame
4 slams | 24.20% |
3 slams | 42.98% |
2 slams | 25.90% |
1 slam | 6.38% |
0 slam | 0.55% |
If you really want to engage in having 2005 slam winners time-travel to face Nole in the finals, just look at the results above.
If 2015 Nole played 2006 Fed in every slam final, the outcome would be:
| Nole | Fed |
4 slams | 11.61% | 2.80% |
3 slams | 33.54% | 16.46% |
2 slams | 35.59% | 35.59% |
1 slam | 16.46% | 33.54% |
0 slam | 2.80% | 11.61% |
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
On a serious note, it wouldn’t be easy for him at all. At the AO he didn’t play as well as in 2011 or 2016 and Safin was better than Wawrinka, who pushed Djokovic to 5 anyway.
At the French there’s the Nadal factor. Djokovic couldn’t win even without Nadal in 2015.
At Wimb his best level would coincide with Fed’s so tough luck.
At the USO he’d be 50/50 with Fed. Both 2005 Fed and 2015 Djoko were relatively vulnerable, but still great, but since neither played their absolute best, it’s 50/50.
At the French there’s the Nadal factor. Djokovic couldn’t win even without Nadal in 2015.
At Wimb his best level would coincide with Fed’s so tough luck.
At the USO he’d be 50/50 with Fed. Both 2005 Fed and 2015 Djoko were relatively vulnerable, but still great, but since neither played their absolute best, it’s 50/50.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
He can win 1 or 2 I guess. But nobody is winning more than that if you put peak Safin, Federer and Djokovic + Nadal that wasn't peak but already a beast on clay together.
Baby Djokovic was giving Coria trouble so I don't think so. And Coria didn't do that good, losing somewhat easily to Davdeynko, although he had set points in the 3rd, but he vanished in the 4th. He didn't bring the Rome form to Roland Garros, probably because he felt the train had left the station with Nadal's rise. Ironically, he had destroyed Davydeno in 2004.
Baby Djokovic was giving Coria trouble so I don't think so. And Coria didn't do that good, losing somewhat easily to Davdeynko, although he had set points in the 3rd, but he vanished in the 4th. He didn't bring the Rome form to Roland Garros, probably because he felt the train had left the station with Nadal's rise. Ironically, he had destroyed Davydeno in 2004.
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
It wouldn't be crazy to think he can win 0. He can lose to Safin at the AO, he can lose to Nadal at RG, Federer at USO and Wimbledon. Individually each one is possible, but he can also win all of those except Wimbledon maybe. I think he even has a slim shot at Wimbledon as 2015 was his best form ever.
But even if he can lose all of those individually losing them all combined would definitely be unlikely, there's a reason it is the greatest season ever.
Feather
Legend
Players say so many things at the spur of the moment. Not everything is true.
Pete Sampras, once lost to a journey man and said I played as best as I could and still I lost. The whole world knows that if Pete Sampras played as best as he could, the other guy would struggle to win games, let alone sets.
Regarding Roger Federer, what else do you expect him to say in the mid 30s? That am an old man, I lost my movement and I am not as good as I used to be ?
It is easy to understand unless you have an agenda, of course
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
For me it is crazy to even think that the Djokovic from 2015 would go an entire year and win 0 Slams. I just don't see that happening because he was relentless and too solid. A slim shot at Wimbledon? Federer in 2005 was awesome but he wasn't some invincible beast. His serve was broken 7 times. He was broken less than that in 2015, including all matches. How many times do you think Djokovic 2015 would break his serve?
Yea it's just unlikely imo to suggest Djokovic wins 0.
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GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
so what fish says about fed and ras who was 2 years at the moment says is real true and we should absolutely trust it. BUT what fed says multiply times is just spur of the moment and not true. even if it is stats that support it for some years (like ELO, h2h vs rafa and muzza, W% vs players not named nole ect).
Pheasant
Legend
It looks like this has become yet another "my favorite player will dominate another ATG player in his prime" thread.
We either get some saying Djoker will win the CYGS while going through the best versions of Fed and near-peak version of Nadal on clay. Or, we'll get some others saying that a 24-slam champion during his very best season will get skunked, which is equally ridiculous to me.
I think that the truth will land in the middle; somewhere between 1-2.
If we take 2006 Fed and move him to the 1984 season, then we've got peak Fed going against the peakiest version of Mac, near-peak Lendl on clay, and near peak Wilander. I see 1-2 slam titles. But honestly, I'm learning towards 1 here; the 1984 AO.
We either get some saying Djoker will win the CYGS while going through the best versions of Fed and near-peak version of Nadal on clay. Or, we'll get some others saying that a 24-slam champion during his very best season will get skunked, which is equally ridiculous to me.
I think that the truth will land in the middle; somewhere between 1-2.
If we take 2006 Fed and move him to the 1984 season, then we've got peak Fed going against the peakiest version of Mac, near-peak Lendl on clay, and near peak Wilander. I see 1-2 slam titles. But honestly, I'm learning towards 1 here; the 1984 AO.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Djokovic in 2015 was playing worse tennis than 4/4 of the winners in 2005. Probably 0-1 is more likely than anything else.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Players are at their absolute peak at age 23-25 somewhere in between, Fish mentioned 2005 and 2011 seasons for a reason. Safin was 24-25 during the AO, Federer was like 24 in 2005, Djokovic was 23-24 in 2011, Nadal also produced his best performances at all 4 slams between 2008-2010 when he was 22-24, it is not a coincidence at all. Next year Sinner will be 24 and we will see him perform better than ever, it will be his peak year levelwise.
Djokovic 2015 was truly great but he could end up with 0-1 slam if put up against the slam winners of 2005, chances of 2011 Djokovic is much better in tackling Safin/Nadal, not the 2015 version who was creamed by Stanimal. If Stanimal can hurt him then Safin will hurt him much more.
Not Wiki, they are UTS warriors who have weaponized UTS .... Post number 19 in this thread even deals with hypotheticals via UTS
... I donno how they got that 83%, 70 % etc for Novak in that....
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Makes sense, Joker got smoked by Stanimal, but he has a 76% chance of beating Youngdal who won MC, Barca, Rome, and RG in dominant fashion
If you really want to engage in having 2005 slam winners time-travel to face Nole in the finals, just look at the results above.
If 2015 Nole played 2006 Fed in every slam final, the outcome would be:
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
Don't know. Any answer is correct and any answer can be wrong in Hypothetical since we can't prove anything.
SecondToNone
Semi-Pro
As if it hadn't always been like that.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
True, meaningless Hypothetical lol. However I feel 2015 is more impressive given the competition. 2015 had no Nadal and Fed was way past his prime.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Poor Federer, only a 30% chance of winning at WimbledonMakes sense, Joker got smoked by Stanimal, but he has a 76% chance of beating Youngdal who won MC, Barca, Rome, and RG in dominant fashion
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
None? LOL. He doesn’t beat Fed or safin at AO. Definitely doesn’t beat Nadal at RG. Not sure he beats Roddick much less Fed at Wimbledon. Doesn’t beat Agassi or Fed at the US open. The field was weak in 2015 and Fed and Nadal were way off form. It’s the only reason he dominate so easy
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
TTW has become 75% hypotheticals. I guess this is where we are headed because they seem bored of the new guys. More impressive or less impressive considering your description? Nadal was there and ended the year #5. He just wasn't as good and was mainly a non-factor for most of the year. Federer played great that late spring and summer.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Makes sense, Joker got smoked by Stanimal, but he has a 76% chance of beating Youngdal who won MC, Barca, Rome, and RG in dominant fashion
05 Rafa with 1-2 record against top5 to win 5 big titles, vacuum era title is really impressive, lol.
Everyone should go check how many big titles Rafa won in 2005, and how many matches against top5.
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BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Yeah, it would take every close match going against him to win 0 slams. Almost impossible, however, I think it would be unlikely to beat that Federer at Wimbledon.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Like it matters
Tell me how 2015 Djokovic would do against 2005 Fed. No way any Djokovic is beating peak Fed at Wimbledon and the USO.
At AO he doesn't go through Fed or Safin either. And at the FO he's already got Nadal.
So yea, 0.
Many people believe that 2005 was the best ever version of Fed. 2005 was prime Nadal at the French Open, and Djokovic didn't even win the 2015 French Open. And then, we have Safin at one of his twin peaks (the other being the 2000 U.S. Open final) in the 2005 Australian Open SF/F.
It does no disservice to Djokovic to say that he's an underdog at all four Majors and might need to pull two big upsets to win some of these Majors, such as the AO and French Open.
It does no disservice to Djokovic to say that he's an underdog at all four Majors and might need to pull two big upsets to win some of these Majors, such as the AO and French Open.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Djokovic was playing worse based on your eye test, when eye tests have been proven flawed on here time and time again. Tennis at its most basic depends on how much can you protect your serve and how good are you on return.
Service games lost
AO
Safin 2005 - 14
Djokovic 2015 - 11
Wimbledon
Federer 2005 - 7
Djokovic 2015 - 6
USO
Federer 2005 - 13
Djokovic 2015 - 12
RG is the only one that's a forgone conclusion and not worth talking about since we know Nadal wins. These other 3 are up for grabs so to think he would go 0 for 3 is some great wishful thinking.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
A 70% probability to beat 2005 Fed at Wimbledon? MOUHAHAHAHAHA
If you really want to engage in having 2005 slam winners time-travel to face Nole in the finals, just look at the results above.
If 2015 Nole played 2006 Fed in every slam final, the outcome would be:
He had an almighty struggle against a 10 year older Fed, how on earth was he gonna beat peak Fed?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I think RG is the one where he has less chance of winning. I think he would play Nadal close in the SF but lose. Nadal was better in 2005 than 2006 imo.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
I think you’re confused. That was 2015 when Fedal were both out of their primes. And yeah, I’ll take the guy who’s the greatest CC player ever over the guy who was taken to the woodshed by Stan
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Too bad he didn’t have 10 moar years of practice and experience when he was 10 years younger. Silly Ol’ Rog, tricks are for those who manipulate statistics to suit their agenda.Poor Federer, only a 30% chance of winning at Wimbledon
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Vacuum era champion, what to expect?
Baby Rafa only needed to face top5 a grand total of 3 times (1-2 record) to win 5 FAT BIG TITLES, lol.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I realize it just sounds like bias to say he's not the favorite anywhere, but I can't find a case for him. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt in Australia, but 2015 was one of his worst winning years there. I'm not someone that thinks Safin in 05 was unbeatable, but 15 Novak wouldn't be my pick to take him down either.
RG & Wimbledon he'd obviously be an underdog.
2015 was far from his most impressive USO either, Fed was just even sloppier in that final. Although much like 2005 Federer, neither were truly tested in the final, and probably had another gear they could go up if they had someone like each other to push them. So the USO has the potential to be the most interesting encounter.
RG & Wimbledon he'd obviously be an underdog.
2015 was far from his most impressive USO either, Fed was just even sloppier in that final. Although much like 2005 Federer, neither were truly tested in the final, and probably had another gear they could go up if they had someone like each other to push them. So the USO has the potential to be the most interesting encounter.
0, Djokovic from 2015 is overrated.
