How many Slams would Federer win if Alcaraz and Sinner were born 20 years earlier?

[junkieballer]

Federer would have to beat

2023 WI Alcaraz at 2003 WI
2024 AO Sinner at 2004 AO
2024 WI Alcaraz at 2004 WI
2024 UO Sinner at 2004 UO
2025 WI Sinner and Alcaraz at 2005 WI
2025 UO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 UO
2026 AO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2006 AO

 

[Breakpointerer]

All of them

 

[junkieballer]

All of them

Peak Fed is unbeatable except when he faces:

- crippled Kuerten
- nutcase Safin
- teenage Nadal

 

[Breakpointerer]

Peak Fed is unbeatable except when he faces:

- crippled Kuerten
- nutcase Safin
- teenage Nadal

That's right, and Alcaraz & Sinner are none of those 3

 

[NatF]

Might lose the 2006 AO.

 

[Rosstour]

Federer would have to beat

2023 WI Alcaraz at 2003 WI
2024 AO Sinner at 2004 AO
2024 WI Alcaraz at 2004 WI
2024 UO Sinner at 2004 UO
2025 WI Sinner and Alcaraz at 2005 WI
2025 UO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 UO
2026 AO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2006 AO

Zero is the answer you want, so that’s what I picked

 

[objection_]

Federer would have to beat

2023 WI Alcaraz at 2003 WI
2024 AO Sinner at 2004 AO
2024 WI Alcaraz at 2004 WI
2024 UO Sinner at 2004 UO
2025 WI Sinner and Alcaraz at 2005 WI
2025 UO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 UO
2026 AO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2006 AO

Fed may lose 05 USO and 06 AO

 

[Razer]

Fed may lose 05 USO and 06 AO

Federer might not even lose that

Remember 2025 Alcaraz wont be playing 2005 Federer if born 20 years ago, it would be a different version much worse than the one we saw in 2025.

 

[objection_]

Federer might not even lose that

Remember 2025 Alcaraz wont be playing 2005 Federer if born 20 years ago, it would be a different version much worse than the one we saw in 2025.

I was taking them as a direct comparison. If we consider that Alcaraz's game would be less evolved back then defensively he would be a bit more vulnerable as he wouldn't be able to slide on hard courts, think the balls were lighter as well meaning he may have to tone down on the power or his forehands are going to be crashing into the backboard half the time.

 

[Razer]

I was taking them as a direct comparison. If we consider that Alcaraz's game would be less evolved back then defensively he would be a bit more vulnerable as he wouldn't be able to slide on hard courts, think the balls were lighter as well meaning he may have to tone down on the power or his forehands are going to be crashing into the backboard half the time.

Direct comparisons are always wrong IMO because they dont exist, you cannot pluck 1 player from the future and place him in the past.

2012 Federer will beat 2002 Sampras in straight sets at Wimbledon, thats right, not even 1 set Sampras can win

But this does not mean 31 year old Fed vs 31 year old Sampras would be a straight sets affair, it would probably go 5 because we are talking of players born together and evolving together, otherwise comparisons dont make sense at all.

 

[objection_]

Direct comparisons are always wrong IMO because they dont exist, you cannot pluck 1 player from the future and place him in the past.

2012 Federer will beat 2002 Sampras in straight sets at Wimbledon, thats right, not even 1 set Sampras can win

But this does not mean 31 year old Fed vs 31 year old Sampras would be a straight sets affair, it would probably go 5 because we are talking of players born together and evolving together, otherwise comparisons dont make sense at all.

Agreed. In general though I favour Fed by a hair over Sampras at Wimbledon just because I think the serve-return complex is more in Fed's favour - The gap between the returns is bigger than the serve comparatively (and probably likewise for peak Fed against anyone on grass).

 

[junkieballer]

Direct comparisons are always wrong IMO because they dont exist, you cannot pluck 1 player from the future and place him in the past.

2012 Federer will beat 2002 Sampras in straight sets at Wimbledon, thats right, not even 1 set Sampras can win

But this does not mean 31 year old Fed vs 31 year old Sampras would be a straight sets affair, it would probably go 5 because we are talking of players born together and evolving together, otherwise comparisons dont make sense at all.

That makes time travel predictions even more ridicolous

How do you expect to know how a player would have developed if born in a different era?

 

[RS]

@The Guru

 

[Razer]

Agreed. In general though I favour Fed by a hair over Sampras at Wimbledon just because I think the serve-return complex is more in Fed's favour - The gap between the returns is bigger than the serve comparatively (and probably likewise for peak Fed against anyone on grass).

Sampras's serve is a big weapon on grass and when serve is lethal anyone will struggle, remmeber how at times even Roddick's serve seemed hard for Federer in between matches, the aces sometimes just flow. Federer obviously neutralized serves better than anyone we have seen, but still, I think the serve is always a huge weapon on grass, Also Sampras never used poly strings, so his returns and serve both would be amplified if he used the modern racquets and Pete was a fierce athlete in his times, a very imposing one... so we cannot say that Federer has a clear advantage.

 

[Razer]

That makes time travel predictions even more ridicolous

How do you expect to know how a player would have developed if born in a different era?

We cannot know, so avoid comparisons, time travel tennis is ridiculous.... someone talking of Sampras vs Alcaraz is all nonsense anyway

Saying Alcaraz is born 8 years (i.e in mid 90s) could cause more problems to old Big 3 than what Zverev/Medvedev did is not an absurd statement, but saying they will be born 15-20 years ago can cause any damage is absurd because we know Big 3 are superior, being born with them is a death sentence.

 

[NachoGPT]

He’d have an easier time with Alcaraz than he did with RAFA.
He’d have an easier time with Sinner than he did with Novak.

 

[objection_]

Sampras's serve is a big weapon on grass and when serve is lethal anyone will struggle, remmeber how at times even Roddick's serve seemed hard for Federer in between matches, the aces sometimes just flow. Federer obviously neutralized serves better than anyone we have seen, but still, I think the serve is always a huge weapon on grass, Also Sampras never used poly strings, so his returns and serve both would be amplified if he used the modern racquets and Pete was a fierce athlete in his times, a very imposing one... so we cannot say that Federer has a clear advantage.

Ehh I think it was only Wim 09 where Fed struggled. In Wim 03/04/05 peak performances he broke a harder serving Rod a combined 12 times I think. Poly would probably help Petes 1st serve % by about 3-5% or so but remember Wim 01 where Pete, though post-prime, served up an absolute storm. IIRC he had 70% in with the second serve speeds at like 115 MPH on average, and Fed with gut returned it better than anyone I've ever seen on grass. Not a clear advantage by any means but I do think it's something like 55-45 in favour of Fed.

 

[Hitman]

Federer would have to beat

2023 WI Alcaraz at 2003 WI
2024 AO Sinner at 2004 AO
2024 WI Alcaraz at 2004 WI
2024 UO Sinner at 2004 UO
2025 WI Sinner and Alcaraz at 2005 WI
2025 UO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 UO
2026 AO Alcaraz and Sinner at 2006 AO

Honestly, who cares.

Federer won those titles, that is all that matters.

 

[Razer]

Ehh I think it was only Wim 09 where Fed struggled. In Wim 03/04/05 peak performances he broke a harder serving Rod a combined 12 times I think. Poly would probably help Petes 1st serve % by about 3-5% or so but remember Wim 01 where Pete, though post-prime, served up an absolute storm. IIRC he had 70% in with the second serve speeds at like 115 MPH on average, and Fed with gut returned it better than anyone I've ever seen on grass. Not a clear advantage by any means but I do think it's something like 55-45 in favour of Fed.

In Wimbledon 2004 final too Federer struggled vs Roddick's serve and looks helpless at times... thats why we rate 2004 Roddick as a great performance despite the match not even going 5... lol

Pete with modern day racquets should be like 130-135 mph on his serve with a lot of weight on his serve too, it can be a nightmare to face him for anyone. Serve is a great weapon to have, especially on grass.

 

[StrongRule]

If you mean instead of facing Nadal and Djokovic, he would have won much more.

 

[gamelovergold]

If Nadal and Novak are replaced by Sinner and alcaraz Federer even win more than what he won.
FEDERER in full flow will crush Sinner alcaraz .
Only FEDERER can lose in FO .

 

[junkieballer]

If you mean instead of facing Nadal and Djokovic, he would won have much more.

No, I meant in addition to the tour. It is a parody of Razer's "what if Alcaraz and Sinner were born 8 years earlier?".

Anyway Nadal and Djokovic were hardly a factor in the period mentioned. The only difference would be he would have faced 2025 RG Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 RG instead of Nadal. No way Federer wins that, especially if he has to play both

 

[Razer]

No, I meant in addition to the tour. It is a parody of Razer's "what if Alcaraz and Sinner were born 8 years earlier?".

Anyway Nadal and Djokovic were hardly a factor in the period mentioned. The only difference would be he would have faced 2025 RG Alcaraz and Sinner at 2005 RG instead of Nadal. No way Federer wins that, especially if he has to play both

Parody was a big fail because everyone knows Federer would crush Sinneraz if aged same and Djokovic would struggle if they were born a few years earlier and if Sinneraz are born 14-15 years earlier then they struggle too vs djokodal.... age gaps are a very real thing, you shift 5 years here and there and a lot changes.

 

[Rosstour]

Honestly, who cares.

Federer won those titles, that is all that matters.

This is the right take, although I obviously wish Fed could’ve gotten a Kyrgios or Berrettini in the F once or twice

 

[AntonZweck]

Alcaraz would've been Federered by Roger.

 

[Jonesy]

Alcaraz would win 0 slams because Ferrero would not have trained him. Ferrero made him and now Alcaraz will not win any more slams unless he gets Ferrero back.

 

[Jonas78]

Impossible to say tbh. Putting two ATGs extra into any period of time will likely make everyone win less.

 

[objection_]

In Wimbledon 2004 final too Federer struggled vs Roddick's serve and looks helpless at times... thats why we rate 2004 Roddick as a great performance despite the match not even going 5... lol

Pete with modern day racquets should be like 130-135 mph on his serve with a lot of weight on his serve too, it can be a nightmare to face him for anyone. Serve is a great weapon to have, especially on grass.

Ehh Rods unreturned serve % was only at about 30% in that match. Decent figure but nothing special for his standard (Fed had like 34% in Wim 08 against Nadal and 37% in Wim 07 F) and got broken 5 times. The returning and passing from Rod was IMO the highlight.

Pete's serve probably already was near that range, I believe the radar guns used to measure speed from when the ball passed the net instead of when it left the racket.

 

[4UTRMoutet]

A Big 5 situation would definitely be interesting...

Rafa would probably come out on top because RG is a lock. Wimbledon could go to Sinner, Fed, Djokovic, or Alcaraz in a few cases. AO is a lock between Djokovic, Sinner, and the occasional Fed. USO is free for all.

Murrinka would unfortunately be a footnote.

 

[DSH]

This is the right take, although I obviously wish Fed could’ve gotten a Kyrgios or Berrettini in the F once or twice

Who will win, Philippoussis from Wimbledon 2003 or Kyrgios from Wimbledon 2022?
Who will win, Cilic from Wimbledon 2017 or Berrettini from Wimbledon 2021?

 

[Razer]

Ehh Rods unreturned serve % was only at about 30% in that match. Decent figure but nothing special for his standard (Fed had like 34% in Wim 08 against Nadal and 37% in Wim 07 F) and got broken 5 times. The returning and passing from Rod was IMO the highlight.

Pete's serve probably already was near that range, I believe the radar guns used to measure speed from when the ball passed the net instead of when it left the racket.

Roddick won the first set and was leading in the third set 4-2 before rains saved Federer as he regrouped after the rain to reverse the 3rd and then win 4th, without the rains the match would have gone 5 sets and there was no guarantee Federer would have won. Roddick was world number 1 in 03 and in 04 Federer took over but that match was the first time they faced in 04 and it was so close, had it went Roddick's way then he would not have become the pigeon that he became after that... one can say that match crushed him. He actually had Federer in trouble there, you must watch the match, a big serve like Roddick's or Sampras's is always a weapon on Grass, if properly harnessed it can beat anyone.

 

[The Guru]

Who will win, Philippoussis from Wimbledon 2003 or Kyrgios from Wimbledon 2022?
Who will win, Cilic from Wimbledon 2017 or Berrettini from Wimbledon 2021?

Clearly he forgot about Gravinboginagis final

 

[Razer]

04W win over Roddick and US Open win over Hewitt cemented Federer as the leader of his peer group and it was certain at that point, nobody would challenge him for years. Djokovic could not impose himself on Murray/Stan but Fed could impose himself on all of these players in slams, that must tell us how supreme Federer is. Djokovic himself is lucky he is 6 years younger, otherwise do you think he would have even 3 wimbledons if he was aged same as Federer? He is an inferior tennis player on Grass to Federer, this even he knows.

 

[objection_]

Roddick won the first set and was leading in the third set 4-2 before rains saved Federer as he regrouped after the rain to reverse the 3rd and then win 4th, without the rains the match would have gone 5 sets and there was no guarantee Federer would have won. Roddick was world number 1 in 03 and in 04 Federer took over but that match was the first time they faced in 04 and it was so close, had it went Roddick's way then he would not have become the pigeon that he became after that... one can say that match crushed him. He actually had Federer in trouble there, you must watch the match, a big serve like Roddick's or Sampras's is always a weapon on Grass, if properly harnessed it can beat anyone.

Yeah I know, trust me I've watched the match a dozen times. What troubled Fed was the flat, bullet like forehand he had back then and he returned well and played great off the backhand. I don't recall there being too many blowouts in that period, It was from IW 05 when Roddick started grinding more and playing with the spinny forehand that made the matches seem NID.

 

[Rosstour]

Who will win, Philippoussis from Wimbledon 2003 or Kyrgios from Wimbledon 2022?
Who will win, Cilic from Wimbledon 2017 or Berrettini from Wimbledon 2021?

These aren’t bad points. I think we forget how good Scud was, he was very much the chronically injured guy. And Fed was totally green at that point obviously, very different than being a guy with 20+ Slams and meeting a guy with zero

Cilic…was already a Slam winner unlike Kyrgios or Berrettini. The only thing that made him a duck in that final was that he was injured. But let’s be real, Fed hadn’t lost a set that tournament, that year it was like watching your man at the French. He wasn’t gonna lose even to a healthy Cilic, and we have a data point for that because of the AO18 Final, on a court less favorable to Fed.

Djoko and Rafa faced more ducks, there is zero doubt about that. Djoko got TPas 2x, Berrettini, Kyrgios, Tsonga, WristPotro, Anderson. 7 ducks

Nadal had Ruud, Anderson, Ferrer, Berd, Puerta. 5 ducks

Fed had Poopiss, Baggy, Gonzo. 3 ducks

That kinda says it all to me but I understand different takes