How many Wimbledon titles does Djokovic need to be slow grass GOAT?

How many W titles for Novak slow grass GOAT?

  • 5

  • 6

  • 7

  • 8

  • 9

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NoleIsBoat

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Firstly we know Pete is the fast/old grass BOAT/GOAT. Dominated all his main rivals, won 7/8 titles, invincible 100% finals record, displayed unbelievable clutch in tight moments with his serve, supreme athlete.

Now some may argue Federer is slow grass GOAT with his 8 titles. A fair argument.

but consider that Djokovic (slow grass BOAT) leads him 3 - 0 in Wimbledon finals, defeated big 3 member for 5/5 titles and was robbed of a guaranteed number 6 in 2020 by COVID cancellation

Federer won 03, 04, 05, 09, 17 facing Roddick, Philippousis, Kiefer,Grosjean, Cryic. No big 2 faced for 5 / 8 titles at Wimbledon.

i think 6 you can have a debate. If he wins 7 there is no question Novak would be greater. No shame for Federer being 2nd, and 3rd on grass overall in this scenario :whistle:
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
He will need 8 or 9.

Though I still consider Federer the GOAT for a very simple reason.

Federer's serve and Federer reading the opponent's serve, both are superior to Novak and the reading of Serve is Superior to Pete as well while Pete has the superior serve.

So Federer I rate very high because his game is great on low bounce grass as well.

What about Novak's ? Can he survive the big servers of the 90s ? I doubt that.....
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
There is nothing called a Slow Grass GOAT and Fast Grass GOAT.

GOAT has to be dominant in both eras or at least have a game for that, Federer lies perfectly in between Pete and Novak to have the perfect game for all eras + he has the most titles too .... how can anyone go past Federer just because he lost some close wimbledon finals due to ageing/choking/whatever?

Impossible to look past Federer.

Novak has a case for being the HC Goat .... but thats just it .... no Grass GOAT.
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
Though we say Pete would struggle the modern era I feel Pete would have found some way to at least reach the final 2-3 players on Grass every year.

But the vice versa I dont see for Novak. He would really struggle on the old grass, going past the quarters would be a challenging task for him.

Federer wouldn't struggle and would still reach the final/win.
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Tennis_Freak99 said:
He needs just one, but against MuryGOAT
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IMO, if you want to specify "slow grass court," I'd have to say Djokovic is already the Grass GOAT with 5! We gave Borg Immortality with his 5 on the slick, choppy stuff! Why shouldn't Nole get the same benefit of the doubt for his era? Federer encompassed the 2; fast and slow era so he's out of the discussion; mainly due to Nole owning him on grass! :sneaky:
 
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TripleATeam

TripleATeam

Legend
He'd need 8 to even be in the running with the H2H argument, but 9 would cement it because he'd have the H2H and he'd have the extra title to offset the lack of finals.

Frankly, not happening.
 
RS

RS

Legend
NoleIsBoat said:
Firstly we know Pete is the fast/old grass BOAT/GOAT. Dominated all his main rivals, won 7/8 titles, invincible 100% finals record, displayed unbelievable clutch in tight moments with his serve, supreme athlete.

Now some may argue Federer is slow grass GOAT with his 8 titles. A fair argument.

but consider that Djokovic (slow grass BOAT) leads him 3 - 0 in Wimbledon finals, defeated big 3 member for 5/5 titles and was robbed of a guaranteed number 6 in 2020 by COVID cancellation

Federer won 03, 04, 05, 09, 17 facing Roddick, Philippousis, Kiefer,Grosjean, Cryic. No big 2 faced for 5 / 8 titles at Wimbledon.

i think 6 you can have a debate. If he wins 7 there is no question Novak would be greater. No shame for Federer being 2nd, and 3rd on grass overall in this scenario :whistle:
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Roddick of 04 and 09 was above a 8/10.
 
RS

RS

Legend
To answer the thread Djokovic would have a case with 7/8 titles.
 
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TheNachoMan

TheNachoMan

Hall of Fame
kishnabe said:
At least 13. Federer Wimbledon titles are more high quality.

Anderson and Past Prime Fed for 4 finals.
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Fed in 2014-15 is the same age as Novak now. 2019 I would agree if Fed wasn’t one point away from winning. Novak’s win there is one of the highlights of the open era.
 
TMF

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Sunny014 said:
He will need 8 or 9.

Though I still consider Federer the GOAT for a very simple reason.

Federer's serve and Federer reading the opponent's serve, both are superior to Novak and the reading of Serve is Superior to Pete as well while Pete has the superior serve.

So Federer I rate very high because his game is great on low bounce grass as well.

What about Novak's ? Can he survive the big servers of the 90s ? I doubt that.....
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The OP and Fed detractors are obsessed with Federer who's a grass GOAT really bothers them, hence this silly thread.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
TMF said:
The OP and Fed detractors are obsessed with Federer who's a grass GOAT really bothers them, hence this silly thread.
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Federer never won a single Wimbledon on fast grass that was played on during the 20th century, the grass that Wimbledon became the hallowed grounds it is with. The grass that legends like Laver, Borg, Mac, Connors, Edberg, Boris and Petros won on. This grass played fast, had a low bounce and bounced unpredictably requiring improvisational, reactional skills as well as clutchness that today's normal, waist high bouncing surface does not. This was grass at its peak, when it was a unique surface differentiated from all others, that rewarded the most aggressive forward running players, and was their hallowed grounds. A shootout of GOATs. The Golden Age of Grass.

The difference is real, and the debate is happening. Where Federer ends up is the only question. I think he ends up as Slow grass GOAT if Nole doesn't recover. Petros is always the golden era Grass GOAT and BOAT.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
NoleIsBoat said:
Firstly we know Pete is the fast/old grass BOAT/GOAT. Dominated all his main rivals, won 7/8 titles, invincible 100% finals record, displayed unbelievable clutch in tight moments with his serve, supreme athlete.

Now some may argue Federer is slow grass GOAT with his 8 titles. A fair argument.

but consider that Djokovic (slow grass BOAT) leads him 3 - 0 in Wimbledon finals, defeated big 3 member for 5/5 titles and was robbed of a guaranteed number 6 in 2020 by COVID cancellation

Federer won 03, 04, 05, 09, 17 facing Roddick, Philippousis, Kiefer,Grosjean, Cryic. No big 2 faced for 5 / 8 titles at Wimbledon.

i think 6 you can have a debate. If he wins 7 there is no question Novak would be greater. No shame for Federer being 2nd, and 3rd on grass overall in this scenario :whistle:
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Dang man, I'd forgotten that. Djokovic played peak Nadal in 2011, inspired Fed in 2014, resurgent Fed in 2015, Anderson in 2018 (after beating Rafa in an epic the match before), and great Fed in 2019. So basically, not just big 3, but literally Fedal in every final, minus 2018 where he beat resurgent Rafa in the semis prior to an easy final.

I don't see how anyone can argue Djokovic had wayyyy tougher competition than Fed for his first 5 Wimbledons. Unless you think...2004 Roddick>2015 Federer, 2005 Roddick>2014 Federer, 2006 Nadal>2019 Fed, 2007 Nadal>2011 Nadal, and 2003 Roddick+Philippousis>2018 Nadal+Anderson? The only disputable one is 2007 Nadal. Otherwise this is a stomp for Nole.


With all this, I think he gets to #6, you have a serious discussion and #7 ends the debate for me.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
Firstservingman said:
why would it be less than 9

oh god no dont start with phillipoopanagis again nobody cares he won 8 wimbys and 20 slams just deal with it like an adult please and thank you
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He won 4 of 8 Wimbys against Philippoussis, Roddick, Roddick, and Roddick...versus Nole winning 4 of 5 against Nadal, Federer, Federer and Federer. Deal with it like an adult please.
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
PETEhammer said:
He won 4 of 8 Wimbys against Philippoussis, Roddick, Roddick, and Roddick...versus Nole winning 4 of 5 against Nadal, Federer, Federer and Federer. Deal with it like an adult please.
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Nobody cares.
8 Wimbledons and so Federer is the GOAT worldwide.

Accept it or else you are at the risk of being ostracized and rejected from society for your weird views, hehe, it is in your best interest to consider Federer the Lord of Tennis.
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
ForehandRF said:
in the case both would have 8 titles, Fed has the extra finals, Djokovic has the H2H.Which metric counts more ?
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Federer has 12 FInals.
Federer snapped the win streak of Sampras in 01, this at least tells us that Federer has the game to win in the 90s as well and he grew up in the 90s, has the better serve + better anticipation of serve on grass than Novak too.
Plus Federer's rivals on Grass were better (younger and in a position to challenge him better) than Novak's who were mostly past prime ones.

Plus GOAT has to have a win streak as well, winning at least 4 titles on trot is a must, that shows that at your peak you are invincible without being injury prone or losing to anyone, being beaten by Murray in between or by an old Federer in between doesn't look good on Novak's resume, it is actually bad for a young guy to be beaten by an old guy, an old guy past his prime still has an excuse of being old.

So all this taken into account, GOAT on Grass has to be across eras, there is not called slow grass goat or fast grass goat or red clay goat or green clay goat or fast HC goat or slow HC goat .... goat is just based on surfaces overall if at all .... So Federer is the Grass GOAT across eras.
 
TMF

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Sunny014 said:
Nobody cares.
8 Wimbledons and so Federer is the GOAT worldwide.

Accept it or else you are at the risk of being ostracized and rejected from society for your weird views, hehe, it is in your best interest to consider Federer the Lord of Tennis.
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Exactly. Achievement is the measuring stick. The greatest grass court players are:

1) Federer
2) Sampras
3) Borg
4) Nole
 
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