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PETEhammer
Guest
For Federer? No number of weak Wimbers can get him grass GOAThood. A cat doesn't become a lion by eating mice, especially in the Jungle.
How many Wimbledon titles does Djokovic need to be slow grass GOAT?
- Thread starter NoleIsBoat
- Start date
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
without busting out the micrometer, the engraving size does look about the same each year. you reckon?
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PETEhammer
Guest
Painting a cat the size of a lion does not make it in fact, a lion.without busting out the micrometer, the engraving size does look about the same each year. you reckon?
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
heh imagine if the guy stuffs it up one year, whoops
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
look call them up tomorrow and present your thesis to them verbally and post the response here
Sunny014
Legend
without busting out the micrometer, the engraving size does look about the same each year. you reckon?
31 yr old Federer + Peak Murray in between Novak's Peak 2011-2016 is what ruins Novak's claim to any sort of GOAThood on Grass.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
eh, titles are titles, doesn't much matter what year you win them imo. you could easily spin it to say it looks good that he was able to reclaim the throne later and that's a fair argument. you can also say that for Fed though.
Fed's five in a row was also significant
Sunny014
Legend
Infact Federer winning in 2017 in the absence of Novak also raises question as at why Novak got injured? That means he burned himself with injury by overstretching himself beyond his operating capacity.
GOAT also has to be fit, cannot operate at top gear and then blow the engine in the middle of the highway.
GOAT also has to be fit, cannot operate at top gear and then blow the engine in the middle of the highway.
Sunny014
Legend
Throne should never be in question during the peak.
Sampras won 7 in 8 years
Federer won 6 in 7 years
Now if we check Novak's peak what do we find ?
3 in 6 years (2011-2016)
Sunny014
Legend
Peak to Peak
Sampras - 7 wins in 8 years (1993-2000)
Federer - 6 wins in 7 years (2003-2009)
Novak - 3 wins in 6 years (2011-2016)
Prime Stretch
Federer - 7 wins in 10 years (2003-2012) and 1 final
Sampras - 7 wins in 10 years (1992-2001) and 0 final
Djokovic - 5 wins in 10 years (2010-2019) and 1 final.
Past Prime
Federer - 1 wins and 3 finals (2 very close 5 setters)
Sampras - 0 wins (retired because he was rendered invalid by court change)
Novak - 0 wins (as on today)
Sampras - 7 wins in 8 years (1993-2000)
Federer - 6 wins in 7 years (2003-2009)
Novak - 3 wins in 6 years (2011-2016)
Prime Stretch
Federer - 7 wins in 10 years (2003-2012) and 1 final
Sampras - 7 wins in 10 years (1992-2001) and 0 final
Djokovic - 5 wins in 10 years (2010-2019) and 1 final.
Past Prime
Federer - 1 wins and 3 finals (2 very close 5 setters)
Sampras - 0 wins (retired because he was rendered invalid by court change)
Novak - 0 wins (as on today)
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PETEhammer
Guest
Thank you for proving Petros is Grass BOAT, your calculation of "prime stretch" is off and clearly geared to make Fed look good/comparable to the Spartan, but I can let that go. Now you just have to accept his grass GOAThood.
You and Mike Danny have been giving me hope for the Fedfans.
Sunny014
Legend
Ha Ha, well it is almost similar for Fed and Pete at the peak, only difference is in a fast grass era he should have had teen Becker of 80s as his rival instead of Goran who is in the Roddick league and please dont say Agassi, Andre was a baseliner, courts never favored him). Pete did own Becker but Becker was a bit washed up after 92, poor guy was 4 yrs older to Pete and thats why his best version never could face best Pete.
Sunny014
Legend
I would have accepted Pete as the Grass GOAT if he sneaked in 1 wimbledon circa 04-05 like Agassi did in 03 with the Aus open, but then Pete was out in 1st round in 02 and he retired because his game was unfit for slow grass.
So that holds against him in my opinion.
He can be in the same league/tier as Federer for me on Grass with Fed being the Goat.....
and Novak 1 tier below.
It is quite reasonable.... I am not being anti Pete in any way.
So that holds against him in my opinion.
He can be in the same league/tier as Federer for me on Grass with Fed being the Goat.....
and Novak 1 tier below.
It is quite reasonable.... I am not being anti Pete in any way.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Novak grass peak is since 2014.
2014 - 2020 -> 4/6 titles, losing 2016-2017 to injury and being robbed in 2020 by COVID.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
yep, fed has the extra title, five in a row, and beat pete on fast grass for good measure
Sunny014
Legend
You mean his peak began at age 27 ?
R u joking?
Novak has been at his peak since 2011.
When Novak beat federer in 2010 USO you could say his peak form had arrived, when he played Fed at the Aus open then Peak Novak had arrived.... brutal hitting ..... never seen him hit that powerful....
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Overall peak was 2011, but he played his best grass tennis since 2014 under Becker’s coaching. His serve and return combo was better than ever.
Fiero425
Legend
You have to admit 2015 had to take it's toll on Nole! Djokovic set all kinds of records that may never be overtaken due to his winning all but 2 events he entered and lost those in finals to Fed and Murray! He tried saving himself by skipping one Masters 1000 event, but beating well over 30 top 10 players (record) while winning and defending everything in sight for a couple years proved too much; hence a lost 2017! I'm still marveling how each of the Big 3 have come back "from the dead" when we thought their careers were over! If Fed comes back and even wins Halle, I'm thinking he made a deal with the Devil!
Sunny014
Legend
You have to admit 2015 had to take it's toll on Nole! Djokovic set all kinds of records that may never be overtaken due to his winning all but 2 events he entered and lost those in finals to Fed and Murray! He tried saving himself by skipping one Masters 1000 event, but beating well over 30 top 10 players (record) while winning and defending everything in sight for a couple years proved too much; hence a lost 2017! I'm still marveling how each of the Big 3 have come back "from the dead" when we thought their careers were over! If Fed comes back and even wins Halle, I'm thinking he made a deal with the Devil!
Federer has always been the posterboy of fitness/playing at a high level without getting injured. At his peak he used to dominate the tour wining multiple slams and tournaments and then next year be back at the same level. Thats something which Novak and Rafa have struggled to replicate, especially Rafa.
Federer will definitely be winning Halle again, but when it comes to winning slams I am not sure. His level is still pretty high at 40 but the youngsters have also become stronger, Djoker is the least of his problems, rest of the field has also become stronger, so at 40 smoking them back to back won't be possible.
We need to see how the future unfolds. Somehow Nadal seems to be at his best physically in recent years (2017 onwards), he might make excuses of injury but he is very fit, I know it.
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Deleted member 743561
Guest
The better question, perhaps, might be whether GOAThood will require an annual accounting.
Because if Federer & Friends effectively ended all argument... what's the poor Tour to do?
There's a product to sell.
Because if Federer & Friends effectively ended all argument... what's the poor Tour to do?
There's a product to sell.
Daniel Andrade
Legend
1 more
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Grass Goat if he reaches 9 titles, with 8 titles he will be the Wimbledon Goat because he is 4/4 in finals against Federer and Nadal.
I think 7 Wimbledon titles would definitely make Djokovic the GOAT on slow grass. Federer’s 8 titles are impressive, but Djokovic’s head-to-head record and the challenges he’s overcome at Wimbledon give him a strong case. If Djokovic hits 7, it’s hard to argue against him being the best on slow grass.
Quality > Quantity
Federer, Samras and Borg won their Wimbledon when they were at their peak/prime years(except Federer won 1 in 2017).
Djokovic won only 3 Wimbledon at his best years(before the CIE) and that was when the competition was strong. Old, past prime Djokovic won more Wimbledon against the NextGen were weak, and no way it's equally valuable/impressive wins because of the lack of quality
Federer, Samras and Borg won their Wimbledon when they were at their peak/prime years(except Federer won 1 in 2017).
Djokovic won only 3 Wimbledon at his best years(before the CIE) and that was when the competition was strong. Old, past prime Djokovic won more Wimbledon against the NextGen were weak, and no way it's equally valuable/impressive wins because of the lack of quality
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