How Should I Play With My Kid?

[Cindysphinx]

I admit, this question doesn't really belong here. But it doesn't really belong in the Tennis Instruction section either, as you'll see. So humor me, please.

My son is 10. He took a kiddie tennis class earlier this year, just 75 minutes, too many kids, too few instructors, you know the deal. Nevertheless, he liked it enough that he wants to scale back his swim instruction and do tennis instead.

This summer, I arranged for him to have a few 30-minute lessons with the pro I use. These have gone OK, even though the pro doesn't really teach kids much. He has improved his groundstrokes, mostly.

I have taken my son out to "practice" as much as we can, but I'm not sure what I should be doing. First we started out with 3 balls and tried to rally, with me getting the ball right to him without pace, but still we spend a whole lot of time chasing balls. More recently, I've brought a hopper to cut down on the ball chasing, and we both hit from the baseline. If he hits the ball anywhere where I can reach it, I return it. He takes as many bounces as he needs. I try to keep My Big Mouth Shut and not correct his technique, although sometimes I can't help myself. These sessions are usually 30 minutes to an hour.

My goal here is *not* to teach him tennis, as this would be the blind leading the blind. My goal is to give him some practice, have some fun, and not drive either of us crazy.

Any suggestions on what I should do when my son and I go to the court? Should he hit against the wall? Are there any games we can do to keep things fun? Would it be a good idea to keep up the 30-minute lessons with the pro, or should I put that on hold until next summer?

 

[Tchocky]

You should invest in a ball machine or some instructional DVD's. The Tennis Channel has many instructional programs. I don't know what your coaching ability is but a good coach should be able to guide your son in the right direction.

 

[fgs]

keep those 30-min lessons with the pro going (once or twice a week if possible) in order to have him pick up a decent technique. take him out for a hit as much as you can - start playing points. imagine different games - he hits the court three times in a row (no winners allowed), he scores a point. have him hit to the left side of the court, then to the right side, so that he develops some directional control. with kids scoring is usually fun - you can score like tie-breaks, then you change the side of court. just let your imagination work out different tasks which lead to directional control and in the end point construction. three times to your backhand and than a putaway to your forehandside for instance. keep it going and have fun.

 

[New Kid On the Block]

when playing family members, just crush them..

 

[Topaz]

Is there a pro he can work with that does have experience teaching kids? IT would be great if you both could have your lessons with your respective pros at the same time, too...cut down on the running back and forth.

If you think it is worth it, maybe check into some junior programs? Too bad the summer is almost over, so the camps are almost over, too.

Is there any kind of community program or after-school program he could join?

 

[mrHan]

I agree with Tchocky that you should invest in some instructional DVD's. It will be useful to both you and your son.

A few things that I would also recommend getting are:
1. Rally Balls
2. Cones
3. Lines

As you mentioned in your post, you were having some issues chasing balls. Start your son off with some warm ups and allow him to both hit anywhere he wants and also alternate with him hitting into zones marked out by targets and lines. Work with him from mid court first as it is easier to give him instruction without having to shout across the court. Place emphasis on racquet preparation and contacting the ball at the proper height (approx waist to shoulder height). Alternate between ball feeding and rallying. If you are having trouble rallying, use the rally balls. These are bright colors soft tennis balls that can be found at most places. Have him work with you on the cross courts and down the lines on the rallys. Once he gets pretty comfortable with ball reads and control, progressively move back further into the back court and continue rallying. That should easily cover a 30 minute to 1 hour session.

 

[burosky]

Do you really just want to play with your kid or teach him as well? If you just want to play, just play. If you want to teach, teach. Otherwise, your kid may associate playing with you with teaching which he could resent if he feels the element of fun is not there anymore. If you want to teach, provided he expects to be taught, watch what the pro does when he teaches him and try to pick up a few things from the session that you can repeat with your kid. This will reinforce the session.

It will also be good if you ask your kid before you go out if he wants to be taught or just play. Don't forget that kids sometimes just want to play. It is also possible he just want to spend time with you.

 

[Shosho]

Stress the fact that learning to play doubles is quite different than singles. Teach him both.

 

[North]

Perhaps you could talk to some kids who have taken lessons from various pros and see which kids are happy about playing and didn't get turned off by the lessons. Ask them what the pros did that they liked.

Make sure it is fun for him. I suspect you can practice whatever you wish, as long as he knows you are having a blast being out there with him. Be positive and let him know he is doing absolutely fine as long as he is doing his best and having a good time.

 

[New Kid On the Block]

i agree with the doubles teachings, it makes you learn all the parts of the game.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Thanks, everyone!!!

To clarify, I just want to play/practice with him. I don't want to teach him, as I don't know what I'm doing and I think a pro could do a better job.

Is it wrong to let him have more than one bounce? Is it OK to hit his balls that are way out of bounds? I guess I just want to avoid doing anything that is especially harmful and be the best practice partner I can be.

If he takes to it, I might find him another coach who specializes in juniors, but for now it is easier to just take him to my lesson and have him do his 30 minutes.

I'm kind of worried that the Juniors Programs around him might be a bit much for a 10 year old who can't keep the ball on the court yet. I see a lot of kids his age who can really whack the ball, and I'd hate for my kid to be seen as The Crummy Player when this is all pretty new to him.

 

[fgs]

try to slowly get him to hit after one bounce - it will teach him to approach to the shots - the trajectory is the most important thing in tennis: looking at the pros it seems all so effortless because they get properly into position. while there are surely a lot of players out there that can hit the ball from a static position better than even some pros, they will get into trouble when they have to take one or two steps, not to talk about hitting on the run.
hit back all the balls, even if his have landed out - of course not when you are playing points.
if he likes it, keep him going with a teaching pro or try to get him into a group of kids his level. group is much more fun for most of the kids than an individual lesson. my son is eight and i have him play three times per week in a group with a coach and twice a week with me. group should be dominant until some 13-14 and a "dedication" to tennis as a sport to follow/specialize in.

 

[kylebarendrick]

Speaking of 10 year old kids, here's a sobering thought: my wife (who is a strong 3.5) spent a day last week hitting with some kids at a local coach's facility. So how did a strong 3.5 woman do against a 10 year old girl? My wife got her butt kicked.

Kind of makes the whole sandbagging/nationals debate seem kind of silly, doesn't it?

 

[rommil]

when playing family members, just crush them..

That explains why my Grandma acts smug everytime I see her.

 

[JavierLW]

Thanks, everyone!!!

To clarify, I just want to play/practice with him. I don't want to teach him, as I don't know what I'm doing and I think a pro could do a better job.

Is it wrong to let him have more than one bounce? Is it OK to hit his balls that are way out of bounds? I guess I just want to avoid doing anything that is especially harmful and be the best practice partner I can be.

If he takes to it, I might find him another coach who specializes in juniors, but for now it is easier to just take him to my lesson and have him do his 30 minutes.

I'm kind of worried that the Juniors Programs around him might be a bit much for a 10 year old who can't keep the ball on the court yet. I see a lot of kids his age who can really whack the ball, and I'd hate for my kid to be seen as The Crummy Player when this is all pretty new to him.

I think it would be somewhat wrong to give him two bounces or let it go out. In order for anyone to get better they need to get used to the feeling of whether it's in or out, and obviously hitting it on one bounce is part of the game.

I think you should just play a game with him. Doesnt have to be a tennis match, but you can probally make up a series of shorter games that he has a feel for how he's doing (they do that in drills sort of).

And as far as how you play, hit it to him if you can, start out by giving him as many chances as possible but dont bend the rules for him.

Sort of just hit feeds to him during these "games". The best feeds or shots when you WANT the other person to hit the ball is with the continental grip. But dont take away too much pace because that makes it hard for him to hit it back.

I had to play a special needs guy in a tournament a month ago, and I resorted to this. I wanted him to have as much fun as possible and I felt like a total tool whenever I went for a big shot against him so I just hit everything back to him with the continental grip.

Although your son will eventually get a lot better, so there is no need for you to give him too much leeway. And like you said it maybe hard for him to play his peers right now so it's probally better for him to work thru this time with his mom.

 

[Serve em Up]

I have a 11 year old daughter. She does some Junior clinics at the club. I also have let her and a friend share a lesson with a club pro that is very good with kids. The clinics are not nearly as good as a shared lesson in my view.

I make sure that I go with her to the lessons so I know what instruction the pro has given.

So far, when I take her out to practice ( not teach). I feed her balls and remind her to focus on what "Coach Bob" has taught her.

I usually start out with feeding her balls that are right to her so she can groove her stokes. When she gets in the groove I will start to feed them a little farther from her so she has to move to get them. I will hit some left, right, and short. I will also hit her some lower balls and some higher balls.

This is how the pro asked me to work with her.

After I have fed her balls we will always rally a little bit. She likes that. Be prepared to really chase the balls. They will come erratically with all kinds of different depth, pace and angles. She will occasionally hit some accidental "winners" that I couldn;t hit on purpose if I tried.

I will turn the rallys into a game and tell her if she hits a 20 ball rally I will buy her a "slurpee" afterwards. That's "squishee" on the Simpsons. She will really work to get to that twenty.

Most important, make sure the kid has fun! If they start to get frustrated or bored, stop immediately. Tennis should be fun, not work.

 

[LuckyR]

I am not certain that Cindy's son is as accomplished as Serve'emup's daughter. I would stand behind Serve'emup's advice since his daughter can perform a 20 ball rally, which many adult posters of this Forum might have difficulty doing. I didn't get the feel from Cindy's post that her son was in this range. If that is true, I wouldn't rally much, rather feed balls to him and not hit returns (since feeding is more likely to give him a ball he can work on his strokes with). I would reserve rallying as a "treat" at the end of the session, but is unlikely to help much.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Serve'emup's daughter could kick my son's backside playing lefthanded and hopping on one foot.

I will try a few minutes of keeping score at the end of future sessions if he wants, though. It might teach him to, you know, keep score.

 

[koopa_troopa]

Can we place bets on which kid can kick the others butt in tennis and have them duke it out? Gives us something to do when there is no tennis on TV.

 

[LuckyR]

Serve'emup's daughter could kick my son's backside playing lefthanded and hopping on one foot.

I will try a few minutes of keeping score at the end of future sessions if he wants, though. It might teach him to, you know, keep score.

My 10 year old daughter is probably smack dab in the middle between your son and Serve's daughter. She is a few months into Classic soccer though and may have forgotten which end of the racquet to hold. Hahaha. Good luck. Personally I never walked onto a court until I was 11 or 12.

 

[Serve em Up]

Those twenty ball rallies are the equivalent of ten balls from each side of the net. They are'nt pretty, and are predominantly service line to service line. The fun thing is that we count each shot and she gets all charged up if she gets near twenty because that's the Slurpee Zone.

BTW: I would never submit anyones son to a humiliating trouncing from my daughter.

 

[Mad iX]

Find a good coach to teach him technique/footwork/etc.
When you play with him you can do drills. Tell him to hit only forehands and only crosscourt or backhands crosscourt. Hit lobs, serves, whatever.
A good part of getting better is just hitting lots and lots of balls. So if his coach has been working on his forehand that week, then you tell him to remember what he learned and do some forehand drills to practice and get that locked in.
Think of yourself as a hitting partner or assistant coach, your job is reinforcing whatever his coach has been teaching him.

 

[OrangeOne]

I have a 11 year old daughter. She does some Junior clinics at the club. I also have let her and a friend share a lesson with a club pro that is very good with kids. The clinics are not nearly as good as a shared lesson in my view.

I make sure that I go with her to the lessons so I know what instruction the pro has given.

So far, when I take her out to practice ( not teach). I feed her balls and remind her to focus on what "Coach Bob" has taught her.

I usually start out with feeding her balls that are right to her so she can groove her stokes. When she gets in the groove I will start to feed them a little farther from her so she has to move to get them. I will hit some left, right, and short. I will also hit her some lower balls and some higher balls.

This is how the pro asked me to work with her.

After I have fed her balls we will always rally a little bit. She likes that. Be prepared to really chase the balls. They will come erratically with all kinds of different depth, pace and angles. She will occasionally hit some accidental "winners" that I couldn;t hit on purpose if I tried.

I will turn the rallys into a game and tell her if she hits a 20 ball rally I will buy her a "slurpee" afterwards. That's "squishee" on the Simpsons. She will really work to get to that twenty.

Most important, make sure the kid has fun! If they start to get frustrated or bored, stop immediately. Tennis should be fun, not work.

Great story. The kids I coach love playing beat the coach, and we often finish with a 'how many shots over rally' can we have. Yours is a fantastic story, except for 1 word: Slurpee.

Uggh, I'm about to tell a parent how to parent. Am I really? Really Truly? Quick: Stop me now.

The fitness trainer in me wants to say things like type-2-diabetes, obesity, sugar-based carbonated drinks, evil, horrid, addictive, corporations, uggh.

There, i've said it all, and not told a parent how to parent. Almost. :grin:

 

[tbini87]

sounds like you are doing the right thing by getting her out to play, at keeping it fun at the same time! just try to explain why you do certain things (use a low to high swing to create topspin, etc) so she gets a grasp of the concept. and keep it fun, nothing worse than seeing a parent beat down a 12 year old because they are not focused or dedicated or whatever. save that for later! haha.

 

[volleyman]

As a former kid, I suggest you just play with your son, enjoy it, and encourage him.

If you've got him taking lessons, which is a good idea, he'll eventually want to start keeping score and serving and all that. Go with the flow, don't get frustrated when he's erratic, keep it fun, don't sulk if he starts beating you, and you'll make many happy memories for you both.

I took up tennis when I was about your son's age, and my dad's willingness to play with me made for some happy times. At least until I started beating him, at which point he refused to play any more.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Ugh. Today was ugly.

I said, "Hey, let's see what happens if we play a game. You wanna serve? Cool. OK, stand on the right-hand side of the court and announce the score. Excellent! OK, remember, you only get one bounce, but you can fault as many times as it takes to serve. But neither of us can let the ball bounce twice, got it?"

He proceeded to take two bounces even though I was doing my best to loft the ball right to him. I let him get away with a couple, so the score went to 40-15. I was kind of impressed because he seems to hit better when he has a chance to spank his mom. Then he missed a few balls badly to go to deuce.

Then he threw a tantrum, claiming I was cheating by not hitting the ball to him (although I most defnitely was) and refused to play anymore. Gawd, he's about as mature as an immature 5-year-old.

Oh, and he ain't gettin' no Slurpee out of me. No way, no how.

Cindy -- who kissed and made up of course and is supposed to repeat the whole debacle and take him out again tomorrow afternoon

 

[OrangeOne]

Ugh. Today was ugly.

Speaking as someone who has coached quite a few 10 year olds (not too many, but enough), let me assure you that your story is a loooong way from ugly

I said, "Hey, let's see what happens if we play a game. You wanna serve? Cool. OK, stand on the right-hand side of the court and announce the score. Excellent! OK, remember, you only get one bounce, but you can fault as many times as it takes to serve. But neither of us can let the ball bounce twice, got it?"

He proceeded to take two bounces even though I was doing my best to loft the ball right to him. I let him get away with a couple, so the score went to 40-15. I was kind of impressed because he seems to hit better when he has a chance to spank his mom. Then he missed a few balls badly to go to deuce.

I was going to say don't worry about the two bounces.... but he is 10, that 's old enough to get that much. It'll come soon enough.

Then he threw a tantrum, claiming I was cheating by not hitting the ball to him (although I most defnitely was) and refused to play anymore. Gawd, he's about as mature as an immature 5-year-old.

Oh, and he ain't gettin' no Slurpee out of me. No way, no how.

Great! Save him from Type-2 Diabetes, he'll thank you when he's about 30 (but the whinging between now and then ).

Cindy -- who kissed and made up of course and is supposed to repeat the whole debacle and take him out again tomorrow afternoon

Nooooooo! Why two days in a row? He's 10 - 1 day a week is fine, 2 days a week would be great, 3 would be almost too much, and any-days-in-a-row (especially following a tantrum) shouldn't happen in my humble opinion. Remember your goal of not driving each other crazy!

 

[Serve em Up]

Man you all are tough. What's the hostility towards the SLURPEE.

Type 2 diabetes is from having TOO MANY Slurpees and sitting around playing too many video games. My daughter doesn't even have one of those evil TV couch potato boxes.

I grew up with the Slurpee. It's one of the fond memories of my childhood. I'm fit, certainly never had type 2 diabetes, and I never suffered for it. Everything in moderation.

Keep working on him Cindy. There will be good and bad days. Your son will appreciate and remember not just the tennis but how you spent time with him.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I'm with you, Serve-em-up. A healthy diet for a kid includes slurpees, birthday cake, ice cream, Halloween candy and lots of other stuff -- in moderation. In fact, I think the bigger threat to kids is the processed foods and High Fructose Corn Syrup in it.

Anywhooo, we went out on Thursday and Friday, and we're going back out again in a few minutes. I'm trying to do lots of little hitting sessions (30 minutes) rather than longer ones. I suggest that we go, and he always says yes, so I figure it's probably taking a greater toll on me than on him!

His weekly lessons are only 30 minutes, so I figure he won't improve unless he gets lots of practice.

Which brings me to another question: At what point should his lessons go to 45 minutes or an hour?

 

[LuckyR]

I'm with you, Serve-em-up. A healthy diet for a kid includes slurpees, birthday cake, ice cream, Halloween candy and lots of other stuff -- in moderation. In fact, I think the bigger threat to kids is the processed foods and High Fructose Corn Syrup in it.

Anywhooo, we went out on Thursday and Friday, and we're going back out again in a few minutes. I'm trying to do lots of little hitting sessions (30 minutes) rather than longer ones. I suggest that we go, and he always says yes, so I figure it's probably taking a greater toll on me than on him!

His weekly lessons are only 30 minutes, so I figure he won't improve unless he gets lots of practice.

Which brings me to another question: At what point should his lessons go to 45 minutes or an hour?

I wouldn't increase the length of the lessons as he is likely not incorporating all of the information of the current lessions if he is like most 10 yr olds.

 

[TheShaun]

i didn't notice if anyone made mention of this...but, easy play balls can make learning a lot easier and more fun. they have a much slower bounce.

 

[ramos]

my own experience...

I can tell you my own experience:

I played with my sun when he was 6, 7 , ... thats ok, but :

When I stop and observe cautionly the mechanics he have aquire, I saw that ALL THE PROBLEMS I HAVE, HE HAVE ALL THEM TOO !!??

The same way...

The children do much more what they see Us doing, than what we try to tell them. And it's very very dificult to take off thats problems (vicius)!

Today I know. If I have another sun, I'll not play with him !!
Just call a good driller and let he do the job...

Ramos/Brazil

 

[saram]

First, you have to ask what your SON wants...not what anyone else wants. Maybe (as stated above) your son justn wants to spend time with you, realizes you love the game, and playing tennis is a way to spend time with you. That may be all your son wants.

Second, taking advice for drills off of here is not necessarily smart. So far, only one certified teaching pro has offered you advice. All the others (and I could be wrong) are not coaches that are certified and know the right steps in teaching tennis to someone. A lot of advice you will get here is from some person overweight, does not play, maybe a 2.5, and has never taught anyone in a paid lesson before. Tennis is not like a lot of other sports--those that teach, must be able to do as well.

Third, if your son wants a coach and to improve via a coach--let him pick out the coach. Find a few coaches, allow your son to watch the coach give a lesson and pick up on the coach's personality and coaching style. Some are passive, some are mililtant, and some are a combination. You will find that most kids cannot handle a truly structured lesson when getting into tennis. No ten year old new to tennis is going to understand if a coach says; "I'm going to feed your forehand down the line and you hit them crosscourt past the service line but within three feet of the baseline."

So to sum it up:

Ask your son what he wants
let your son pick the coach
and most of all:

Allow your son to enjoy the time on the courts. Once it starts lacking in the 'fun' department, he won't want to go to the courts with you...

 

[OrangeOne]

Disclaimer: I've not held back (again) in the below. Hell, why not ...

First, you have to ask what your SON wants...not what anyone else wants. Maybe (as stated above) your son justn wants to spend time with you, realizes you love the game, and playing tennis is a way to spend time with you. That may be all your son wants.

Good point.

Second, taking advice for drills off of here is not necessarily smart. So far, only one certified teaching pro has offered you advice. All the others (and I could be wrong)

OrangeOne puts hand up as a certified coach....

A lot of advice you will get here is from some person overweight, does not play, maybe a 2.5, and has never taught anyone in a paid lesson before.

Well, FWIW, i'm not overweight, I'm about 4.5, and currently teaching.

Third, if your son wants a coach and to improve via a coach--let him pick out the coach. Find a few coaches, allow your son to watch the coach give a lesson and pick up on the coach's personality and coaching style. Some are passive, some are mililtant, and some are a combination. You will find that most kids cannot handle a truly structured lesson when getting into tennis.

Not sure on this front - most 10 year old's won't have the attention-span to do this, nor necessarily the discerning judgement. Most coaches should offer a free or discounted first lesson, even a short lesson, maybe a better way to judge.

Ask your son what he wants

You know - this is where I have some of the problem with this thread. If you ask a 10 year old do they want a sandwich or pizza for lunch, you just know what the answer will be. If you ask them do they want to go to bed at 9pm, or keep playing computer games until 11, you know what the answer will be.

My point? Parents should present healthy options to kids.

Allow your son to enjoy the time on the courts. Once it starts lacking in the 'fun' department, he won't want to go to the courts with you...

I couldn't agree more. There has not been (nearly) enough discussion of games in this thread. We've had people suggest more things about instructional DVDs and cones and contact points than we have about suggesting a good old game of jail (which admittedly requires many other kids). There has not been (nearly) enough raw fun in this thread.

You know the best thing about the 75 minute 'lesson' with other kids and not enough instructors...that the boy liked enough to want to do less swimming and more tennis? OTHER KIDS! Right now he's gone from that (a one off lesson with lots of kids), to having a private lesson with a coach and then many many private lessons with mum. Sorry 'mum', you can try and be fun, but you'll never be as fun as 5 other 9-11 year olds.

Where's the being a 10 year old? Where's the stuffing around with other kids? At 10, it's still 90% about fun. Hell, I know a 12 year old at the local courts who is literally the most promising 12 year old I've ever personally seem, and yet for him, when he's not being coached or playing comp, he's stuffing around and being 12. Sure, he's being 12 with the topspin backhand of a 4.5-5.0 (seriously), but nonetheless, he's stuffing around with other kids.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx
Anywhooo, we went out on Thursday and Friday, and we're going back out again in a few minutes. I'm trying to do lots of little hitting sessions (30 minutes) rather than longer ones. I suggest that we go, and he always says yes, so I figure it's probably taking a greater toll on me than on him! :smile:

And, to continue my soap-box point - you're calling them 'hitting sessions' even. Hmmm. I call my hitting sessions that, and yet sometimes i'll (at 4.5+ and 31 years old) go down to the courts with the intent of just having fun. Hell, there's one comp I play in sometimes that's purely (for me) a 'fun' comp.

I'll say it again: I think, for a beginner, more than 3-sessions a week, ESPECIALLY in 1-on-1 adult-child mode (but in reality, in any mode), is too many.

His weekly lessons are only 30 minutes, so I figure he won't improve unless he gets lots of practice.

Which brings me to another question: At what point should his lessons go to 45 minutes or an hour?

Ok - I'm going to say what I think here, given I have been so far. The below assumes a beginner, not a kid who's been playing for a few years and is getting addicted, wants to make tennis their main (only) sport, etc etc.

a. Hour lessons would be fine... if it were a group scenario, and if that was 'the main hit of the week', with only 1 or 2 other social fun times with mum or whoever.

b. By far the majority of 5-10 or 12 year olds that play tennis play once a week in a group scenario, maybe twice or three times TOPS.

c. I enjoy reading your posts, Cindy, I really do. You approach learning and playing comp tennis with focus, dedication and procedure that is rare and impressive.

That said, your sentence that I've highlighted in red above sounds a little too 'you' perhaps, rather than 'mum of a beginner'. I'd be a little freaked - as the coach - if you said that to me as his coach. At 10, most kids don't know what sport they want to play. If you're taking him to the courts / a park - many days a week - why not kick a soccer ball around one day in the backyard instead of playing tennis? or maybe shoot a bball? It'll all help his coordination and footwork and his ability to, at lunchtimes or after school - go play *any* sport with his mates at all.

That's my 2c, hell, it's probably more like my 45c....

 

[saram]

Disclaimer: I've not held back (again) in the below. Hell, why not ...



Good point.



OrangeOne puts hand up as a certified coach....



Well, FWIW, i'm not overweight, I'm about 4.5, and currently teaching.



Not sure on this front - most 10 year old's won't have the attention-span to do this, nor necessarily the discerning judgement. Most coaches should offer a free or discounted first lesson, even a short lesson, maybe a better way to judge.



You know - this is where I have some of the problem with this thread. If you ask a 10 year old do they want a sandwich or pizza for lunch, you just know what the answer will be. If you ask them do they want to go to bed at 9pm, or keep playing computer games until 11, you know what the answer will be.

My point? Parents should present healthy options to kids.



I couldn't agree more. There has not been (nearly) enough discussion of games in this thread. We've had people suggest more things about instructional DVDs and cones and contact points than we have about suggesting a good old game of jail (which admittedly requires many other kids). There has not been (nearly) enough raw fun in this thread.

You know the best thing about the 75 minute 'lesson' with other kids and not enough instructors...that the boy liked enough to want to do less swimming and more tennis? OTHER KIDS! Right now he's gone from that (a one off lesson with lots of kids), to having a private lesson with a coach and then many many private lessons with mum. Sorry 'mum', you can try and be fun, but you'll never be as fun as 5 other 9-11 year olds.

Where's the being a 10 year old? Where's the stuffing around with other kids? At 10, it's still 90% about fun. Hell, I know a 12 year old at the local courts who is literally the most promising 12 year old I've ever personally seem, and yet for him, when he's not being coached or playing comp, he's stuffing around and being 12. Sure, he's being 12 with the topspin backhand of a 4.5-5.0 (seriously), but nonetheless, he's stuffing around with other kids.



And, to continue my soap-box point - you're calling them 'hitting sessions' even. Hmmm. I call my hitting sessions that, and yet sometimes i'll (at 4.5+ and 31 years old) go down to the courts with the intent of just having fun. Hell, there's one comp I play in sometimes that's purely (for me) a 'fun' comp.

I'll say it again: I think, for a beginner, more than 3-sessions a week, ESPECIALLY in 1-on-1 adult-child mode (but in reality, in any mode), is too many.



Ok - I'm going to say what I think here, given I have been so far. The below assumes a beginner, not a kid who's been playing for a few years and is getting addicted, wants to make tennis their main (only) sport, etc etc.

a. Hour lessons would be fine... if it were a group scenario, and if that was 'the main hit of the week', with only 1 or 2 other social fun times with mum or whoever.

b. By far the majority of 5-10 or 12 year olds that play tennis play once a week in a group scenario, maybe twice or three times TOPS.

c. I enjoy reading your posts, Cindy, I really do. You approach learning and playing comp tennis with focus, dedication and procedure that is rare and impressive.

That said, your sentence that I've highlighted in red above sounds a little too 'you' perhaps, rather than 'mum of a beginner'. I'd be a little freaked - as the coach - if you said that to me as his coach. At 10, most kids don't know what sport they want to play. If you're taking him to the courts / a park - many days a week - why not kick a soccer ball around one day in the backyard instead of playing tennis? or maybe shoot a bball? It'll all help his coordination and footwork and his ability to, at lunchtimes or after school - go play *any* sport with his mates at all.

That's my 2c, hell, it's probably more like my 45c....

Yeah, maybe it's 45c...but it's worth a couple hundred bucks as people just rarely understand what you took the time to write. Tennis has become my life (outside of my daughter) and yet I just recently bought her a racket--and only when SHE asked for one. I made sure she asked me for a few weeks before getting it. I don't want my daughter to play tennis becuase I force her into it. I want it to be fun for her.

p.s.
Never meant to call you fat and lazy. Just that so many posters on here are not of the quality of a certified coach and do not understand the fundamentals of coaching. They may know the fundamentals of the game, the fundamentals of the strokes, and what works for them. But, they do not know what works for teaching others--especially kids.

I have been coaching free USTA sponsored clinics for two years now to beginners to 2.5 and then introducing them to league tennis. I never push it too far (learned this from experience). Some just want to have fun--others want to get better. Finding that right combination and blend is the key. And, so my point in rambling here is that one cannot be a coach from a couch via a computer and advise another parent if they have not had experience coaching.

Glad to see an experienced coach came through with solid advice. Cheers!

 

[Cindysphinx]

I agree that more suggestions about how to make it fun would be *really* helpful.

So far, the only thing he and I do that I would say qualifies as "fun" is we keep track of how many shots we can keep the ball in play (well, and how I do this melodramatic act as though personally insulted if he hits a winner). He also seems to enjoy seeing how many balls he can stuff into his pockets.

So if there were any way to liven things up, I'm all ears.

Regarding the highlighted sentence . . . well . . . . Here's my thinking.

Many kids never learn to swim. I think in most cases this is because the child didn't have enough exposure to swimming while young. To learn to swim, a kid needs instruction but they also need a lot of practice. Not structured practice where they are forced to swim laps while their parent stands on deck and tells them to keep their head down. "Practice" where they have the opportunity to try new things and experiment a little with what they've learned. Exposure, in other words.

Translated to tennis, I don't think any player will like tennis in the long run if they can't keep the ball in play. Much like how no one enjoys swimming if they feel they are constant danger of drowning. Hence the lessons, to develop some strokes to sustain a rally.

If he's taking private lessons (he returns to his group clinic in mid-September), then he kind of needs to practice what he learns or we might as well not bother with the private lessons because he won't get any better. If he decides he doesn't like tennis after all, this is fine. We can put tennis on the trash heap of other things he has tried and didn't like: cello, karate, soccer, track, etc. But if we are going to spend the time and money on private lessons, it's a good idea to get out there between lessons and get a feel for what he has been taught.

You know, I have developed a philosophy about tennis lessons. At first, I figured one took a tennis lesson so the pro could show you a few things and tell you what you needed to work on. One or two lessons ought to do it, I figured.

Now I have what I will call "The Piano Theory" of tennis lessons. Piano lessons (which I also take) are utterly meaningless and lead to nothing without practice. If someone said, "I have my kid taking a weekly piano lesson, but I see no need for him to practice," I'd wonder why they were wasting their money. The purpose of lessons is to improve, no? Even for a kid.

Why would tennis be any different? You don't have to take lessons, but if you do it's kind of a waste not to practice.

So yeah, I want him to improve, I want him to like tennis, and I want him to have fun. Going out with me for a hitting session (I don't know what else to call it, since we don't "play tennis" in any sense of the word) is a necessary part of that. As long as he remains willing, I figure that's a sign it hasn't become painful.

I'd ask his current coach about this, but I have a feeling the answer would be exactly the opposite of your very reasonable views, OrangeOne. His coach had a very hardscrabble upbringing in a poor country, and he escaped through working at tennis insanely hard. I doubt he'd think a bit of practice over the course of a week was a problem.

Nevertheless, we'll stick with this coach for now, for many reasons. It's convenient and my son likes him and doesn't feel pressured, and I'm not trying to create the next Federer here, so we don't need Federer's coach. In fact, son says he really likes this coach and his tennis lessons are his favorite activity. I don't get it (the lessons don't seem to have an ounce of fun built into them), but that's what son thinks. For now, anyway.

 

[OrangeOne]

Yeah, maybe it's 45c...but it's worth a couple hundred bucks as people just rarely understand what you took the time to write. Tennis has become my life (outside of my daughter) and yet I just recently bought her a racket--and only when SHE asked for one. I made sure she asked me for a few weeks before getting it. I don't want my daughter to play tennis becuase I force her into it. I want it to be fun for her.

Good call, very good call. It's so important - in the case of sport-addictions - to ensure a 'child - or partner even', when choosing to take up a sport - really take it up out of their own growing interest (which does happen), instead of simply out of encouragement or (horridly) forcing. I've seen both, and neither is good.

p.s. Never meant to call you fat and lazy.

You didn't, I should have had a smiley at the end of my sentence there, I was being a bit cheeky .

Just that so many posters on here are not of the quality of a certified coach and do not understand the fundamentals of coaching. They may know the fundamentals of the game, the fundamentals of the strokes, and what works for them. But, they do not know what works for teaching others--especially kids.

Very, very true. My experience (which isn't dissimilar to yours from reading the bit you added or the bit I missed below), I coached juniors when younger, and in the last year I've started coaching beginner adults and juniors one afternoon a week, and also volunteering - working with a local junior tennis team of 10-15 juniors from a fitness perspective another afternoon a week. The 'coach' for that session is old, decrepit and barely has a clue, so i've been coaching by default there too. I've also coached, fitness trained & helped out with juniors and adults across a couple of other sports, so I couldn't agree more with your point about the importance of simply knowing what is important for teaching (and teaching kids in particular).

I have been coaching free USTA sponsored clinics for two years now to beginners to 2.5 and then introducing them to league tennis. I never push it too far (learned this from experience). Some just want to have fun--others want to get better. Finding that right combination and blend is the key. And, so my point in rambling here is that one cannot be a coach from a couch via a computer and advise another parent if they have not had experience coaching.

Glad to see an experienced coach came through with solid advice. Cheers!

Again - couldn't agree more. Experience is irreplaceable. I hope some of the guru coaches drop by this thread (BungaloBill, NoBadMojo, Jo11yRoger, etc).

 

[OrangeOne]

I agree that more suggestions about how to make it fun would be *really* helpful.

.....

Ohh - interesting reply CS. I will reply properly later - I must do real paid work now or I'll regret it later. For the record: do a search in this the tennis tips section on 'games / juniors / etc' in the 'tips and instruction section. Games could easily be 80% (hell, given your description of the coaching sesson, 100%) of your 'fun-hits' with your son. There are loads out there....

 

[Solat]

Cindy,

invest in some slower "rally" balls, play mini tennis with him; that is service boxes only. Teach him how rallying works on a small scale where movt and tracking are easier and he wont even need complete swings to succeed. This will give him a feel for the game and the enjoyment of having proper rallies.

rewards have been mentioned and i think are a valid way of encouraging good concentration and effort. like OrangeOne said maybe sugary based treats arent ideal, but if u do make it just a lollipop or something small, but i think the best ones are tennis related, new shock absorber or overgrip, keyring etc. Obviously not every session but if he achieves a goal you have been working toward.

good luck

 

[AndyRLacoste]

I'm not sure if you play at a club, but mine has a ball machine-renting servive, for about 3 dollars for an hour and a half, not bad.

 

[Pleepers]

Cindy,

invest in some slower "rally" balls, play mini tennis with him; that is service boxes only. Teach him how rallying works on a small scale where movt and tracking are easier and he wont even need complete swings to succeed. This will give him a feel for the game and the enjoyment of having proper rallies.

rewards have been mentioned and i think are a valid way of encouraging good concentration and effort. like OrangeOne said maybe sugary based treats arent ideal, but if u do make it just a lollipop or something small, but i think the best ones are tennis related, new shock absorber or overgrip, keyring etc. Obviously not every session but if he achieves a goal you have been working toward.

good luck

I like the rally ball idea for the tennis aspect of things, but why do kids need material/enticing rewards after playing? They're not dogs that need to be "trained" into performing or wanting to play -are they? Isn't playing tennis enough of a reward in itself? Don't get me wrong, I can see how something like a slurpee after a hitting session is a good way relax after exercising and talk about what happened while playing, but giving gifts/rewards for playing like shock absorbers or grips seems like a form of "conditioning". If the kids needs tennis related things then they need tennis related things, and should be taught to earn those things through doing chores around the house or through other responsibilities -but this is another discussion all together.

 

[OrangeOne]

So far, the only thing he and I do that I would say qualifies as "fun" is we keep track of how many shots we can keep the ball in play (well, and how I do this melodramatic act as though personally insulted if he hits a winner). He also seems to enjoy seeing how many balls he can stuff into his pockets.

So if there were any way to liven things up, I'm all ears.

I like the melodrama

One way to liven up things is (as I said) other kids. I know he's returning to group lessons, but if some of your other tennis buddies have kids, why not schedule a play-date for them all or something?

Many kids never learn to swim. I think in most cases this is because the child didn't have enough exposure to swimming while young. To learn to swim, a kid needs instruction but they also need a lot of practice. Not structured practice where they are forced to swim laps while their parent stands on deck and tells them to keep their head down. "Practice" where they have the opportunity to try new things and experiment a little with what they've learned. Exposure, in other words.

Fair point.

Translated to tennis, I don't think any player will like tennis in the long run if they can't keep the ball in play. Much like how no one enjoys swimming if they feel they are constant danger of drowning. Hence the lessons, to develop some strokes to sustain a rally.

Yeah, but the worry is that... well... best practice tends to suggest that any 10 year old playing sport should focus on 2-3 times a week TOPS, and that even once a week in tennis for a year or two will let someone roughly learn the game. If they're keen, opportunities will arise for them to play more - maybe a local junior's night (our club has them on thursday nights, for example), maybe a holiday summer camp week, etc etc.

If he's taking private lessons (he returns to his group clinic in mid-September), then he kind of needs to practice what he learns or we might as well not bother with the private lessons because he won't get any better.

Yeah - I agree here too.... I just wonder how often is really necessary. You don't want it to turn into a chore to quickly.

I'm happy to keep discussing this as plainly with you CS as you seem to be open to it. I think, perhaps, here's where our philosophies differ. Your thinking seems to be:

serious coaching + regular hitting = competence --> enjoyment

whereas perhaps mine is:

coaching (mainly fun) + some hitting = enjoyment --> more play --> competence

It is fundamentally different. I like your route, for a player who has been playing for a year or two, and is quite keen. I like my route for a beginner, or for a kid who wants to play a sport for fun. I tend to think that my route may lead to a kid being more likely to stay in the sport, however, which is a neat (and setup) segue into your next point....

If he decides he doesn't like tennis after all, this is fine. We can put tennis on the trash heap of other things he has tried and didn't like: cello, karate, soccer, track, etc.

And now, I'm asking the tough question . Why is there the trash heap? The positive answer is that you're clearly a good, loving parent who has been giving your son every opportunity to pick from the buffet of extra-curricular activities available to the modern day child. The other answer could be that 'piano theory' may have some negative consequences.


But if we are going to spend the time and money on private lessons, it's a good idea to get out there between lessons and get a feel for what he has been taught.

The purpose of lessons is to improve, no? Even for a kid.

The purpose of most anything for a kid should be to have fun, first and foremost, and then learn about themselves, their ability to work with other kids and adults, sport, life, exercise, competition, failure, success, learning itself... etc etc. I'd prefer to set a 'fun' environment for any beginner in the first year or two.

Remember that the need / want to 'master' something quickly is far higher in adults than juniors. From reading your posts CS - you clearly have a burning desire to learn tennis, you feel that it's there to be conquered, and that you can become quite good. I have no doubt that you're in the 'Lendl' mold - you will certainly maximise your potential in the game given any time and other restraints. But part of your goal is competition driven. It's not normally recommended for a kid to play comp in the first 6 or 12 months (or longer), and if & when they get that far, comp will then (in many) fuel a desire to learn faster and more, which can then be an indicator to find more serious lessons, more practice, etc etc.

Why would tennis be any different? You don't have to take lessons, but if you do it's kind of a waste not to practice.

Ok - I can't believe it's taken me this long to ask the fundamental question of life: what's the outcome you're desiring here? what's the goal? For him to like tennis? For him to play it? For him to have a crack at it being his main sport? For him to make it pro? . Seriously though, I still question the need / benefit in a 10 year old beginner having private lessons. It seems the fact that he's having private lessons is part of the reason you're feeling the need for all of the other training, which could be the tail wagging the dog.

So yeah, I want him to improve, I want him to like tennis, and I want him to have fun.

Whoops - and there's the goal. Right. Given that - well I think your methods are too serious for your goals (and that the goals are stated the wrong way around, not that you necessarily ranked them).

Going out with me for a hitting session (I don't know what else to call it, since we don't "play tennis" in any sense of the word) is a necessary part of that.

I (literally) cringed when I read the word necessary. Necessary? That makes it all seem a little too.... regimented, serious. Necessary is almost the dichotomous opposite of fun!

As long as he remains willing, I figure that's a sign it hasn't become painful.

I think the current philosophy is much more likely for him to either stick and love it, or snap and hate it. I think a milder philosophy might mean he might ride out the rough periods, the weeks it's cold and windy and he doesn't want to play much, and stay in it. That said, if the group lessons are to return that will be great, and seriously, remember that the group lessons should have him smiling and laughing much more than anything else.

His coach had a very hardscrabble upbringing in a poor country, and he escaped through working at tennis insanely hard. I doubt he'd think a bit of practice over the course of a week was a problem.

Ahhh, yes. I know the coach you mean, sounds like a gymnastics coach (uggh). And for the record: I don't mind a little practice - just once or twice. Now I know a little more about the coach, I can't help thinking along with Saram, that maybe you might look for another coach one day. That said, I couldn't agree more with you that if he does like and enjoy the current lessons, then sticking with them is a good start. I've seen kids like eating worms, so you know... whatever works for him on that front. Maybe make sure other people than you talk to him about it too, just to ensure he's not saying that just to make mummy happy (because mummy likes tennis so much).

I'm not sure if you play at a club, but mine has a ball machine-renting servive, for about 3 dollars for an hour and a half, not bad.

If I could rent a ball machine for $3 for 90 mins I'd be in heaven on earth....but with all due respect, it's a shocker of an idea in the context of this thread. The non-coach hits need to be games, fun, and little sets etc like CS is already doing. A beginner 10 year old and a ball machine is not necessarily a good mix.

 

[PimpMyGame]

I have the exact same problem as the OP. My son (9) gets some coaching and is coming along well. I'm acutely aware that I will be more of a hindrance than a help if I get involved with trying to coach him. So I tend to have a chat with his coach about what's going well, and what needs improvement. If we go and have a hit I will just say something like "remember to use the chopper grip on serve" but really let him dictate how far he wants to go with it.

Sometimes we'll start off at the service line and move backwards with full drills and somethimes he wants to put everything together and play a set. I just tend to do what he wants to do, and if we're playing a set I'll try to be a pusher and not hit any winners.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OrangeOne,

First, you make some *really* good points. A lot of them, in fact. You must be one heck of a coach.

This resonated most of all:

I'm happy to keep discussing this as plainly with you CS as you seem to be open to it. I think, perhaps, here's where our philosophies differ. Your thinking seems to be:

serious coaching + regular hitting = competence --> enjoyment

whereas perhaps mine is:

coaching (mainly fun) + some hitting = enjoyment --> more play --> competence

You know, it probably varies depending on the kid, but for my kid you are probably right.

Even if my method is "right," it is fraught with more risk. So maybe I will tweak some things and dial it down a bit. And maybe I will bring my two older kids into the mix, which will have the effect of breaking the monotony with mom and erm, making him feel superior to his big sisters.

Also, you asked about goals. Son doesn't have any goals, of course. Well, goals that don't involve SpongeBob. My tennis goals for him are:

(1) develop some ball skills. He's had years of swimming and is quite proficient. Alas, swimming coordination doesn't necessarily translate to land coordination. Also, one reason soccer didn't "take" is because he doesn't like one-one-one aggression and has no patience for another person running up to him and stealing his ball. With swimming, what another swimmer does has no effect on him, which is why he likes it. With tennis, he'll have to deal with another player having a significant effect on his success, so it's kind of a step in the direction of having the maturity to lose in competition because of what someone else did and not go to pieces over it.

(2) Diversify. The swim coach at his high school is an awful, awful person. None of my kids will be swimming for him. Best to find a new sport now, especially since he has become bored after swimming for the last 6 years.

At best, perhaps he will get good enough at tennis to play in high school. I see him going no higher than that. If he doesn't get that good, then I hope he can at least get to a level where he can spank me. That would mean he'd be good enough to have tennis as a lifetime hobby.

Oh, why the dust-heap of activities? Because when my kids say "I want to take karate!!" I say, "Cool!" and find them a cheap class. If they like it, we go to the next level, whatever that is. I'd be shocked if everything took. It's not a big deal. His sisters did the same and eventually fell into what they love now (crew for one, singing/swimming for another). Having a big dust-bin of former activities is pretty common these days.

OK. First step in taking OrangeOne's advice: Today's his first after-school lesson (as school started today). Me, I'm going in street clothes. No hitting with mom, even if he wants to.