How to advance to 4.0 from 3.5?

[Eph]

I guess I'm a 3.5 player.

Here's my predicament: I go back to my D1 school in December after taking 2 semesters of independent research elsewhere. I'd like to play on their club team -- which is very competitive. The coach has told me the team is between 4.0-6.0 depending on the players.

So, I have 4 months to get to a 4.0 level. Where do I start? What needs to be done? Obviously I need to get my serve fundamentals completely down, and get a decent second serve. But what else? What can I do?

I play doubles ~3h a day five days a week. Singles maybe once a week. I'm also losing weight - currently 260, losing ~4lbs a week.

So, can someone help me with a plan? If you need to see my videos: here's some from 3 months of my strokes - I think they've progressed .5-1.0 depending on the stroke. My volleys are very good and I'm on the balls of my feet now: http://vimeo.com/5062255 Latest serve video: http://vimeo.com/6155320

 

[Blask]

One of the things I noticed right away was your forehand follow-through. It's pretty awkward and is making you arm/shoulder the shot rather than using your legs and hips. Try making your follow through over the left shoulder rather than in to your chest across the body.

 

[pvaudio]

Im not trying to be mean, but this is true: you won't make it with the way your serve is. You also need to work on your fitness as you've already said. if you need help with that let me know because I have about as much personal experience as one can get. Four months is plenty of time to get to where you need to be, you just need practice. Hire a coach, don't just listen to us on here. It really makes a difference. However, keep posting your videos and we can do whatever we can, but more than anything, you need to get that serve going. It's just not there yet.

 

[pvaudio]

And note that I on purpose said is that all you need is practice, because the one thing you do have in loads is dedication and desire. Most don't have that. If you want it, you can get it. Just get in contact with someone who can help you get to the next stage.

 

[pvaudio]

One of the things I noticed right away was your forehand follow-through. It's pretty awkward and is making you arm/shoulder the shot rather than using your legs and hips. Try making your follow through over the left shoulder rather than in to your chest across the body.

I second this. You need a coach because your stroke technique is all over the place. You don't hit any two shots the same way.

 

[Eph]

Im not trying to be mean, but this is true: you won't make it with the way your serve is. You also need to work on your fitness as you've already said. if you need help with that let me know because I have about as much personal experience as one can get. Four months is plenty of time to get to where you need to be, you just need practice. Hire a coach, don't just listen to us on here. It really makes a difference. However, keep posting your videos and we can do whatever we can, but more than anything, you need to get that serve going. It's just not there yet.

No coaches around here, unfortunately. I plan on practicing with jollyroger at least once a month - we're just trying to find the time.

What advice can you give me w.r.t. conditioning? I'm trying to make a good programme for me - the programme I used to follow as a ski racer is too advanced for me at this stage.

 

[volusiano]

Boy, I think you're way off base here wanting to play in D1 against 4.0+ players. The way your forehand and your serve look right now, I would peg you as a 2.5 - 3.0 top (if you can even consistently keep the ball in). I think 3.5 is for someone with good form but lacks consistency, and I don't think you even have good form for any of your strokes and serve yet based on the video.

Even if you're a good pusher and can keep the ball in consistently right now, when you play against 4.0 players, you're not going to get any break from them making mistakes, and they will punish you mercilessly. They may even toy around with you a little bit by making you run side to side until you're exhausted before they put the ball away. At 260 lbs, you may be in no condition to keep up with them for even a set.

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I just want to set realistic expectation for you on what you'll be up against with the 4.0+ players, if you can even qualify to make the team.

 

[Majik]

Seriously, I'd have to agree with volusiano. At 4.0 level you have to start developing some weapons, and I'm not seeing that in your game yet.

 

[Ad0ut]

Where in NY are you located? I'm in the area and am interested in checking out your game.

I'm not that great (middling 4.0 player), but I'm inspired by your dedication. I do have to agree that it doesn't look like you're a 3.5 from the videos, but without seeing points being played out, it's hard to say.

One thing that immediately jumped out at me was that you're not finishing your follow through on your serve. You look like you stop your swing right after you hit the ball.

 

[Eph]

I'm around Saratoga Springs, NY. My family has a pied-à-terre in Manhattan, which I go to semi-often, though.

 

[fps]

Boy, I think you're way off base here wanting to play in D1 against 4.0+ players. The way your forehand and your serve look right now, I would peg you as a 2.5 - 3.0 top (if you can even consistently keep the ball in). I think 3.5 is for someone with good form but lacks consistency, and I don't think you even have good form for any of your strokes and serve yet based on the video.

Even if you're a good pusher and can keep the ball in consistently right now, when you play against 4.0 players, you're not going to get any break from them making mistakes, and they will punish you mercilessly. They may even toy around with you a little bit by making you run side to side until you're exhausted before they put the ball away. At 260 lbs, you may be in no condition to keep up with them for even a set.

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I just want to set realistic expectation for you on what you'll be up against with the 4.0+ players, if you can even qualify to make the team.

i don't think this is rude, i think it's fairly accurate. OP, i think you have a long way to go to be a 3.5. the great thing about tennis is that for most of us there is always something we can improve on, and that goes for 5.0s as well as 2.0s. i suggest getting some kind of rowing or running or swimming into your fitness regime, and also hitting the ball further in front of you.

 

[Ad0ut]

I'm around Saratoga Springs, NY. My family has a pied-à-terre in Manhattan, which I go to semi-often, though.

Nice usage of "pied-à-terre."

I'm from Manhattan so if you're in the area, feel free to let me know. I'm also curious, did someone else assess you as a 3.5 or are you calling yourself that based on the NTRP guidelines (which are pretty crappy).

 

[snowpuppy]

Not to be mean, but I have to agree with other posters in that what you are looking to do is impossible with you condition and time frame. A leap that big is only possible for the extremely athletic or naturally gifted.

That aside, you will have to live and breathe tennis for these four months. If you have the $'s head to as much tennis camps as you can (I am from NYC and Total tennis which I've been to is a pretty good camp). If not head to the fitness forums and start reading everything on tennis fitness. You will have to create a program that will turn you into relatively good athetic shape and boost the all important footwork which your video shows you are lacking currently. Aside from that, start gathering anybody that you know that is a strong 3.5 and become best friends with them. Strokes and service will have to improve along with match play as you don't have that much time to build up the kind of experience but just drilling. Your current doubles play versus singles play ratio will have to reverse obviously due to needed empathsis on your play alone.

I don't know how serious you are but good luck.

 

[Eph]

Nice usage of "pied-à-terre."

I'm from Manhattan so if you're in the area, feel free to let me know. I'm also curious, did someone else assess you as a 3.5 or are you calling yourself that based on the NTRP guidelines (which are pretty crappy).

Where in Manhattan? We're on Central Park West...

Just going by the guidelines. Also played with someone from TW who said I was fairly good for playing only one year. *shrug*, low 3.5, 3.0, whatever. Point is I need to be 4.0 in ~4 months.

 

[Mick]

wow 260 lbs.
imagine how much faster you would move if you could get it down to 170 lbs.

4 lbs a week is not possible. that's water loss you are counting.

 

[Eph]

Obviously it's possible as I'm doing it.

Sure, some is water. But my calorie in vs calorie out correlates well to what the scale says.

170 is impossible for my height and build size; 190 is what I was before I was injured at 16, when I was a top FIS ski racer and baseball player.

 

[Mick]

i am thinking if you are 3.5, just the weight loss alone would allow you to move faster and make you a much better player.

 

[Blask]

I definitely admire your passion for getting better so go out and play every minute possible over the next 4 months. Once the weight comes off you'll start to flow on the court much more smoothly and it will help with your strokes.

Jumping to a 4.0 that quickly will be a very very difficult thing to do. I really recommend getting some court time with a teaching pro to at least get the mechanics down.

Good Luck!

 

[Ad0ut]

Where in Manhattan? We're on Central Park West...

Just going by the guidelines. Also played with someone from TW who said I was fairly good for playing only one year. *shrug*, low 3.5, 3.0, whatever. Point is I need to be 4.0 in ~4 months.

Hells Kitchen. Anyway, it will be difficult, but I think it can be done. I think finding a pro to work with once a week will also help a ton, if you can afford it.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I guess I'm a 3.5 player.

Here's my predicament: I go back to my D1 school in December after taking 2 semesters of independent research elsewhere. I'd like to play on their club team -- which is very competitive. The coach has told me the team is between 4.0-6.0 depending on the players.

So, I have 4 months to get to a 4.0 level. Where do I start? What needs to be done? Obviously I need to get my serve fundamentals completely down, and get a decent second serve. But what else? What can I do?

I play doubles ~3h a day five days a week. Singles maybe once a week. I'm also losing weight - currently 260, losing ~4lbs a week.

So, can someone help me with a plan? If you need to see my videos: here's some from 3 months of my strokes - I think they've progressed .5-1.0 depending on the stroke. My volleys are very good and I'm on the balls of my feet now: http://vimeo.com/5062255 Latest serve video: http://vimeo.com/6155320

Eph,

I am going to be flat out honest with you.

1. Lose weight.

2. Swing through the ball before bringing the racquet off to your side. Swing through and out towards the target. You have a very cutoff and short swing because you are "trying" to put topspin on the ball.

3. Let the ball come into your racquet on the volleys.

4. Got to keep those knees bent.

I am glad you have these goals. If the coach was saying 4.0 to 6.0, well that depends on the quality of the 4.0. You might have something with them. I don't know. However, when it goes into the 5.0 to 6.0 range? Sorry, I can't say you are there. Just because the scale is a half point lower to get to the 4.0 range, that half point at the college level could mean a lot.

I don't want to burst your bubble, and I certainly dont want you to think I am just getting on you, I am just being honest. If you dont like my opinion, that is fine, I completely understand.

 

[film1]

Where do you want it kid

Between the eyes or on the kisser?

Let me start with the good:
1. Considering the extra weight you are hauling around you are moving pretty good.

2. You have the desire to improve, that is the most important thing.

The bad:

I won't get too detailed but lets start with the ball.
You are not watching it. You are not even thinking about watching it.
1. Watch the ball.
2. Move your feet, get someone to feed you balls or rent a ball machine and
constantly move your feet.
3. Your strokes are in need of some fundamental changes. watch some of the instructional videos on you tube.

4. Don't worry about playing anyone while getting your stroke down.
The first things players do when they are working on a new stroke isloose confidence and go back to the old way of playing.
Give yourself time to get comfortable and take a lesson/s if at all possible.
Right now you are around a three but forget ratings, get in shape and
get better.

You can be a four, it's going to take a lot of work but you have all the
the tools.

Good luck man

 

[BullDogTennis]

wow 260 lbs.
imagine how much faster you would move if you could get it down to 170 lbs.

4 lbs a week is not possible. that's water loss you are counting.

at higher weights 4 lbs a week is deff possible, although its not safe. when he gets to around 235-50 id say it'll slow down...

just curious what was your weight when yuo started?

 

[rlamb101]

Keep losing weight and focusing on complete fitness. At the same time, go to fuzzyyellowballs.com and learn how to improve your game with their in depth breakdown of the fundamentals.

You must have the fundamentals down in order to build on that foundation. Everyone can give you tips and tricks...but the core is your technical proficiency, tactical awareness, mental acuity and the physical conditioning to execute over long periods of time.

So....ensure your foundation is solid...before you expend all of your energy building a skyscraper that is going to collapse.

You keep working hard and make tennis a part of your life...and you will never have to hear "lose weight" again.

 

[Wes_Loves_Dunlop]

your forehand is very awkward at the end. you tend to hit down but the ball flies on you. you also start your forehan too low. when you take back, try to make the racket level with your shoulder.

you do not split step either. i did not watch your whole vid but i watched a couple minutes of it and this is what i noticed. just from the first few minutes of your video i say you cannot be competitive unless u use a split step

 

[Eph]

at higher weights 4 lbs a week is deff possible, although its not safe. when he gets to around 235-50 id say it'll slow down...

just curious what was your weight when yuo started?

310 pounds after my 6th knee surgery.

 

[Eph]

your forehand is very awkward at the end. you tend to hit down but the ball flies on you. you also start your forehan too low. when you take back, try to make the racket level with your shoulder.

you do not split step either. i did not watch your whole vid but i watched a couple minutes of it and this is what i noticed. just from the first few minutes of your video i say you cannot be competitive unless u use a split step

Yeah, that was pointed out to me when I made that video. I'm split stepping most of the time now; sometimes not at the net - depends.

 

[Swissv2]

Guys that are heavier tend to be able to put a slight bit more "oomph" into their serves, but mobility is a big factor.

Tips on your game:

• Step into that serve more. You are not driving through the ball as much as you should.
• On your ground strokes your elbow is a bit too high, which doesn't allow you to follow through well.
• All this takes practice to become 2nd nature.

 

[pvaudio]

wow 260 lbs.
imagine how much faster you would move if you could get it down to 170 lbs.

4 lbs a week is not possible. that's water loss you are counting.

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother posting it. 4lbs a week is nothing special in the slightest. It isn't water weight at all because after about the first 10 days, your body gets used to its new carbohydrate and salt levels and stops cutting water weight. From there on, it's just fat and muscle.

Obviously it's possible as I'm doing it.

Sure, some is water. But my calorie in vs calorie out correlates well to what the scale says.

170 is impossible for my height and build size; 190 is what I was before I was injured at 16, when I was a top FIS ski racer and baseball player.

170 is not impossible, it just feels impossible now. I used to be 240. I always thought that 180 was impossible. I have a walking around weight of 165 which I am right now. I've been as low as 155 when I boxed last. Didn't like being that light, so now I'm back to 165.

 

[pvaudio]

at higher weights 4 lbs a week is deff possible, although its not safe. when he gets to around 235-50 id say it'll slow down...

just curious what was your weight when yuo started?

Four pounds a week isn't possible, it's easy. The thing people aren't understanding is that when you're that large, you need to lose WEIGHT. People confuse that with losing FAT. Once you get down to a solid weight range for your height, then as bulldog said, you'll need to start eating a bit more so you only lose about 2-3lbs a week. It makes sure you're only losing fat and no muscle. A pound of fat is 3500 calories. When you're large, your basal metabolic rate is much higher and your body can eat through that easily. You end up metabolizing some muscle however, but it's all part of the struggle.

Eph, what's your cardio and fitness schedule looking like?

 

[Eph]

170 is not impossible, it just feels impossible now. I used to be 240. I always thought that 180 was impossible. I have a walking around weight of 165 which I am right now. I've been as low as 155 when I boxed last. Didn't like being that light, so now I'm back to 165.

I was 6% body fat at 190. I think 170 is impossible.

 

[Eph]

Eph, what's your cardio and fitness schedule looking like?

2h of mountain biking every day; 30' of swimming 3 days a week.

 

[pvaudio]

I was 6% body fat at 190. I think 170 is impossible.

I would honestly like to see where you got those results from, because Frank Zane went on stage at about 190 with around 4% bodyfat at 5'9". In case you don't know who Frank Zane is, he won Mr. Olympia 3 times:

I'm not saying you aren't, but sub 10% body fat at high weight is very difficult to achieve, and especially since you were an athlete, I doubt it even more because you need I'd say at least 6-8% BF for competing at the pro level. I can't think of a pro boxer who walks around with sub 6% body fat. Tests are very inaccurate, and if they are accurate, they are extremely expensive. Don't use them as a measure of your fitness unless low body fat is directly related to your sport (aesthetic weight training).

 

[Eph]

Sure, it could have been off, but all the other stats matched up. I didn't look like that guy, but was built like a hockey player back then. Twas a long time ago.

In any event, even after I rebuild my upper body, I won't be shooting for that type of body again, but just the same, I shouldn't be able to weigh 170 in my frame.

 

[Mick]

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother posting it. 4lbs a week is nothing special in the slightest. It isn't water weight at all because after about the first 10 days, your body gets used to its new carbohydrate and salt levels and stops cutting water weight. From there on, it's just fat and muscle.

if you know of a way to make people lose 4 lbs a week, and in your words, "there is nothing special about it in the slightest", i think you can become very wealthy by offering such a service to millions of people who want to lose weight :shock:

 

[GeoffB]

Boy, I think you're way off base here wanting to play in D1 against 4.0+ players. The way your forehand and your serve look right now, I would peg you as a 2.5 - 3.0 top (if you can even consistently keep the ball in). I think 3.5 is for someone with good form but lacks consistency, and I don't think you even have good form for any of your strokes and serve yet based on the video.

Even if you're a good pusher and can keep the ball in consistently right now, when you play against 4.0 players, you're not going to get any break from them making mistakes, and they will punish you mercilessly. They may even toy around with you a little bit by making you run side to side until you're exhausted before they put the ball away. At 260 lbs, you may be in no condition to keep up with them for even a set.

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I just want to set realistic expectation for you on what you'll be up against with the 4.0+ players, if you can even qualify to make the team.

Keep in mind the OP is trying to make the club team at a d1 university, not the d1 team itself (which would be completely out of reach even for a very strong 4.0). Even so, yeah, I do agree that this is a tall order. A 4.0 would probably have trouble playing for Cal's club team, from what I've seen, though at least it's a possibility.

But you know, if you like tennis, then there's plenty of enjoyment in the trying. Even if you don't make the club team, you'll have lost a lot of weight and greatly improved your game, so it's a great goal.

 

[Eph]

Yeah, no kidding. My school's team is all 5.5+ players. It's insane.

I guess I'm not going to be playing tennis this next year.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Cindysphinx]

if you know of a way to make people lose 4 lbs a week, and in your words, "there is nothing special about it in the slightest", i think you can become very wealthy by offering such a service to millions of people who want to lose weight :shock:

Someone who is 50 pounds overweight can lose 4 pounds a week -- for a little while. If they keep trying to lose 4 pounds a week, they won't keep it off though. That's way too fast for sustained, permanent weight loss IMHO.

Think about it. If OP really lost 4 pounds a week (having already lost a lot of weight from his high), then he would be at his goal weight in 13 weeks. Most people who try to drop weight that quickly don't keep it off. I think OP should slow things way down and focus on maintaining the success he has had this far while losing weight much more slowly.

 

[Flyingpanda]

Why don't you try to get as good as you can in the 4 months and then ask to practice with the club team. Your level (3.0, 3.5 whatever) to 4.0 in 4 months is a huge race, made impossible by your lack of a coach.

Just try to improve as best you can, then see if people from the team want to hit with you and stuff.

 

[Ken Honecker]

Hi, I was wondering how heavy you were in the groundstroke video since I see it was taken 3 months ago. Is that when you were 300? As another big player (was 296 in April now 278) I know that chasing that ball around is good for weight loss. The one thing that leaps out to me is how many balls you are hitting shoulder high. Way back when I learned the sport I came to the understanding that waist high was optimum so you either moved in and out or raised up or hunkered down depending on how much time you had to get in position. Try taking a couple of steps toward some of those balls!

I also know what you mean about not being able to get below 190. Heck in my playing days in the late 70's I was 175 lb with a 42 inch chest and 34 waist. Now after playing with weights I need about a size 50 jacket to get my shoulders in and then the arms are tight. Being built like a football player makes it harder to move on the court.

 

[Mick]

Someone who is 50 pounds overweight can lose 4 pounds a week -- for a little while. If they keep trying to lose 4 pounds a week, they won't keep it off though. That's way too fast for sustained, permanent weight loss IMHO.

Think about it. If OP really lost 4 pounds a week (having already lost a lot of weight from his high), then he would be at his goal weight in 13 weeks. Most people who try to drop weight that quickly don't keep it off. I think OP should slow things way down and focus on maintaining the success he has had this far while losing weight much more slowly.

yep. it was pretty tough for me when i decided to lose the extra weight. i tried not eating and my body went into the starvation mode and used less calories. one time, i saw my weight dropped 5 lbs after having played singles tennis for 4 hours. the next day, the 5 lbs came back (it was just water loss). i have lost about 30 lbs now and am very close to my ideal weight. the secret to me is to change my eating pattern. it seems simple now but it certainly was not that way 30 lbs ago. at the peak of my weight loss, i never was able to lose more than 1 lb a week.

and you know what motivated me to lose weight? it's the guy i had played with who would play the drop shot on every single point

 

[NamRanger]

Someone who is 50 pounds overweight can lose 4 pounds a week -- for a little while. If they keep trying to lose 4 pounds a week, they won't keep it off though. That's way too fast for sustained, permanent weight loss IMHO.

Think about it. If OP really lost 4 pounds a week (having already lost a lot of weight from his high), then he would be at his goal weight in 13 weeks. Most people who try to drop weight that quickly don't keep it off. I think OP should slow things way down and focus on maintaining the success he has had this far while losing weight much more slowly.

If you have the determination you can do it. When it comes to weight loss, it's really all down to whether you are willing to mentally tough it out or not.

 

[Blade0324]

For the OP. I just moved from 3.5 to 4.0 so I know what you are going through to get to your goal. I can tell you that seeing your FH from the side that you are hitting every ball late. Others have said that you need to swing through the ball more and I agree completely. I know you are using a pretty open stance but you still need to step into the ball and move your momentum into your shots. I saw many balls that were floating and then into the net. I will tell you that you really need to develop a weapon on either the FH or BH as well as significantly improving your consistancy just to make it to the low range of 4.0.
I don't want to seem harsh but you would struggle to do keep it close in matches against the 4.0 players that I have played in league and tournament matches. You are on the way but just need to work on those strokes more. Footwork will be a big part of it for you. If you can get yourself in better position you will hit better shots.

 

[volusiano]

If you have the determination you can do it. When it comes to weight loss, it's really all down to whether you are willing to mentally tough it out or not.

I think the key to keeping the weight off (not just losing weight, that's the easy part) is to find a new life style that works for you and be happy enough with it that you can stick to it and not go back to the old way. It's better to learn to be happy with something new than to keep fighting off an old thing forever.

 

[Eph]

You know what would have been great for this thread? Actually gotten suggestions on how to improve to 4.0. A list, even.

Not being told I'm fat and to lose weight. See, I addressed that in the first post so it's somewhat irrelevant.

But thanks for the reassurance that I'm too fat for tennis.

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

Are you saying that losing weight wouldn't help you move up the 4.0?

 

[Eph]

Are you saying that losing weight wouldn't help you move up the 4.0?

Sigh.

No, I'm saying I already addressed that. What I was asking for was specific things I could do with my tennis game. I obviously know I need to be losing weight, and I already said in my post I was losing weight. To tell me to lose more weight is neither helpful nor appreciated.

 

[BullDogTennis]

Sigh.

No, I'm saying I already addressed that. What I was asking for was specific things I could do with my tennis game. I obviously know I need to be losing weight, and I already said in my post I was losing weight. To tell me to lose more weight is neither helpful nor appreciated.

i've seen a ton of things in this thread, just READ...off the top of my head i've seen.

1. hitting the ball late
2. hit into serve more
3. your elbow is to high on the forehand
4. lose weight


people are writing all kinds of things, and all your reading is the "lose weight" part...

 

[GuyClinch]

I don't think the OP could beat most 3.5s yet. If I am playing him - drop shot/lob combo till the cows come home.. I think league 3.0s could take him with that strategy.

Pete

 

[volusiano]

Sigh.

No, I'm saying I already addressed that. What I was asking for was specific things I could do with my tennis game. I obviously know I need to be losing weight, and I already said in my post I was losing weight. To tell me to lose more weight is neither helpful nor appreciated.

Eph, you weren't just asking for specific things you could do with your tennis game. You asked people "How to get from 3.5 to 4.0 in 4 months to play in D1 type clubs". You opened up that can of worms because this is coming from a guy who's not even 3.5, overweight at 260lbs, don't want to get a real coach, has knee problems/surgery and can't do any knee bends on serves, beginner's techniques, not young or athletically inclined, etc. What do you expect the focus is going to be on?

If you want specific things to improve on, you should have kept the focus to smaller threads, like you did on your serve thread. Maybe have a forehand thread, and backhand thread, a volley thread, etc.

 

[fruitytennis1]

Mick that was me doing the drop shots. Hehe. Now you owe me a thanks.
Answering the Ops question. You seem very... Like you havent been on the courts much of your life.
Ill be realist but 4.0 has a 5% chance of happening. For that 5% chance you need to spend time on the courts, hit millions of balls, get into shape(not just lose weight), and have the drive to do all of that. Keep working on it bro!!!