How to beat Djokovic?

NADALRECORD said:
Nadal has won their last 3 slam meetings including 6-1 to clinch US Open. Djokovic is not man enough to beat Nadal at the slams these days.....
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The interesting thing about that match is that despite Nole being considered by many the overall better player on hard courts, Nadal actually almost bageled him in the winning set of that final and it didn't even go the distance. Certainly, an emphatic statement by Nadal over his now biggest rival and on their strongest surface.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Djokovic leads Nadal 12-6 since the beginning of 2011 so yes, Nadal is now Nole's turkey. Kinda sad in a way when you think about it.
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He was his turkey/***** in 2011 no doubt.

Doesn't feel that way now though or recently (yes I acknowledge he was won 4 meetings in a row).

However Rafa needs to win the next one big time to bring back sense of balance so to speak.
 
irishnadalfan1983 said:
He was his turkey/***** in 2011 no doubt.

Doesn't feel that way now though or recently (yes I acknowledge he was won 4 meetings in a row).

However Rafa needs to win the next one big time to bring back sense of balance so to speak.
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If Rafa does lose the next big one, especially here at RG, should they meet, the pendulum has certainly swung in Novak's favor regarding their rivalry.
 
Hitman said:
If Rafa does lose the next big one, especially here at RG, should they meet, the pendulum has certainly swung in Novak's favor regarding their rivalry.
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Yes I agree 100%.

I am willing to brush off China and WTF loss but Miami, Rome and RG in a row would be leaving me thinking we back in 2011 mode or close to it anyway.
 
Monte Carlo 2013 proved the immense difference between slam and non-slam. Djokovic won Monte Carlo in straight sets, and it did nothing for him at Roland Garros....
 
NADALRECORD said:
The only thing that is happening is reality, not speculation.
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It's quite simple really- how will you feel if Djokovic wins RG this year? Nothing wrong with a little bit of speculation. Will you be man enough to congratulate him and give him credit for the victory?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
It's quite simple really- how will you feel if Djokovic wins RG this year? Nothing wrong with a little bit of speculation. Will you be man enough to congratulate him and give him credit for the victory?
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Some people can predict their feelings, I never have been able to. Plus I don't waste my time on impossibilities.
 
By being the better player (hard but certainly doable, especially on clay and grass).


More details:

- Mix up the rhythm of rallies.
- Don't offer him too many angles.
- Be willing to attack.
- Play freaking well.
 
Chanwan said:
I doubt that Nadal's slice is faster than his average ground stroke. The slice is effective against Djoko for different reasons
a) he needs to hit it from very low and he hasn't got enough spin to rip it quite like Nadal does with low slices
b) he needs to create his own pace
c) it robs him of rhythm by giving him a different ball to hit

As for dropshotting Djoko's first serve? Seriously? Fed may be able to do this one or twice, but it's not exactly a strategy that can be executed on a consistent basis.
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I said drop shot to duece court, otherwise waste of energy.
So saving energy is the goal for such serves.
 
torpantennis said:
Beating Djokovic? Easy, the guy uses western grip FH, so he likes a high contact point. So avoid hitting loopy high-bouncing topspin, rather hit lots of low bouncing slices and flat drives to his FH, and lure him to net with some short slices.

That's exactly what Federer did during his prime, and no surprise, he dominated Djokovic back then! Nadal will NEVER dominate Djokovic, rather Nadal's game with the high bounces perfectly drives Djokovic to zone.
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I agree with you
 
JohnKramer said:
Djokovic is consistently performing well these days.
Has anyone thought about any strategy to beat djokovic?
Here is what I think. You can post your ideas in addition to the ones below:
This can be useful for any player, not only Nadal or Federer.
Djokovic game is based on three major things.
A. He anticipates the opponent shots and gets ready to hit it away from opponent.
B. He always tries to put the ball away from where the opponent is standing.
C. Try and Return every ball to the other side of the court.

In order to neutralize the above, the opponent needs to do the same except point A.

Solutions:
1. Always hit the ball away from him. If the shot has to be hit to the same place, do not do it more than 2 or 3 consecutive times. Strangely Nadal most of the times Nadal hits where djokovic stands, giving djokovic full control.
2. Attack forehand instead of backhand.
3. Hit the shot with more depth
4. Hit flat as djokovic will have less time to anticipate and implement point A (This is where Federer gains a lot and Nadal loses, as Nadals loopy shots gives djokovic enough time to get ready)
5.Try to come to center at the baseline after hitting the shot.
6. Nadal should show variation in shots some with loopy top spins and most with flat shots or slices.
7.Good serve and volley.

Dealing with djokovic serve.
His strength is to serve wide, so the opponent will go out of the court to return. So while returning these serves, ensure it is returned to djokovics backhand or a drop shot on djokovics duece court. Anything else is waste of energy.

Always Hit Away from him even if you were to lose the point. This approach will make sure he is not in control of the rally for the most part.
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Easiest way to beat him is to tell him someone slipped wheat gluten into his food a few hours before the match.
 
By looking at the draw, I expect Djokovic to easily win 1st round against Sousa.
Possible matchups in the subsequent rounds for Djokovic:

2nd round - Chardy
3rd round - Cilic
4th round - Tsonga

He was supposed to meet Cilic in the 1st round of madrid, had he not skipped it.

Would Cilic upset Djokovic?
If he follows the suggestions in this thread he might. :)
 
Aggggggggressssssssssivvvvvve. He, like nadal and wawrinka, needs time and rhythm. High risk tennis has been shown to be very effective against both. Nadal deal w aggressiveness only slightly better because of his own high arching shots.
 
Slices, changing effects and the heights of the ball. Djokovic hates this, he doesn't have the variety to counter pounch this. Watch the match Haas won last year in Miami. That's the way he hates to be played. Or instead, go and ask Roger.
 
Emiliano55 said:
Slices, changing effects and the heights of the ball. Djokovic hates this, he doesn't have the variety to counter pounch this. Watch the match Haas won last year in Miami. That's the way he hates to be played. Or instead, go and ask Roger.
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what is changing effects and heights of the ball. Can you elaborate?
 
JohnKramer said:
Agree with you. In US open 2013, Nadal used it very well and hence the results. Basically the slice being flat, it robs time off djokovic to adjust to hit the shot away from opponent.
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During Nadal's match against Hewitt in Miami(?), they showed Nadal's forehand pattern at the USO finals in 2011 and 2013 against Djokovic. In 2011, Nadal used the dtl fh 31%, while in 2013 roughly 46%. I think that made a huge factor in the outcome of the match.
 
Emiliano55 said:
Slices, changing effects and the heights of the ball. Djokovic hates this, he doesn't have the variety to counter pounch this. Watch the match Haas won last year in Miami. That's the way he hates to be played. Or instead, go and ask Roger.
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Exactly! Djokovic hates the Federer-Haas types of players. Can you say...all-courters? Novak is a different type of player than Nadal where the latter likes a target. Old Haas managed 3 wins against Djokovic while he can barely squeeze a set against Nadal in all shape or form. Djokovic is lucky not to be playing in the 90s because he would be facing those kind of players everywhere he goes. The Federer-Haas types.
 
JohnKramer said:
I said drop shot to duece court, otherwise waste of energy.
So saving energy is the goal for such serves.
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Because he can't get enough topspin on his forehand to end the point from the deuce court?
I still don't get the idea of returning half? /most? of Djoko's serves with a drop-shot. First of all, it's insanely hard to do that with a 125 mph serve to the extent where you'll fail a lot more than you succeed - especially with Nadal's return stance 3-4 meters behind the baseline. Secondly, he would be prepared for it after the first two or three drop shots.
 
Pathetic stuff from Fed. Interesting and franky shocking how less and less class and grace he's exhibiting in his latter years. Actually sad to watch him decline and just snipe at the media and fellow players because he can't deal with no longer being at the top.

As far as ppl insisting he's talking about the media's treatment of Nole's injury and not Nole per se, that's nonsense. As an extremely media savvy guy that's been doing these interviews for 15 yrs, he says exactly what he means and to think he was "mis-interpreted" is naive, at best.

Cannot wait for Nole to obliterate him in the semis.
 
The-Champ said:
Exactly! Djokovic hates the Federer-Haas types of players. Can you say...all-courters? Novak is a different type of player than Nadal where the latter likes a target. Old Haas managed 3 wins against Djokovic while he can barely squeeze a set against Nadal in all shape or form. Djokovic is lucky not to be playing in the 90s because he would be facing those kind of players everywhere he goes. The Federer-Haas types.
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Why do you bring up the fact that Haas has barely won a set against Nadal? Totally irrelevant- tennis is all about matchups, kinda like Nole and Fed owning Del Potro but Nadal doesn't.
 
GASMAN664 said:
Pathetic stuff from Fed. Interesting and franky shocking how less and less class and grace he's exhibiting in his latter years. Actually sad to watch him decline and just snipe at the media and fellow players because he can't deal with no longer being at the top.

As far as ppl insisting he's talking about the media's treatment of Nole's injury and not Nole per se, that's nonsense. As an extremely media savvy guy that's been doing these interviews for 15 yrs, he says exactly what he means and to think he was "mis-interpreted" is naive, at best.

Cannot wait for Nole to obliterate him in the semis.
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Wrong Thread...
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Why do you bring up the fact that Haas has barely won a set against Nadal? Totally irrelevant- tennis is all about matchups, kinda like Nole and Fed owning Del Potro but Nadal doesn't.
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Del Potro has 5 wins against Fed and 15 losses
He also has 4 wins against Nadal and 8 losses

Imo, If Nadal and Del Potro played more often Nadal would have a similar head to head like Federer- Del Potro, maybe just a couple more wins for Del Potro against Nadal.

But I do agree with Djokovic owning Del Potro, he has one 7 of their last 8 matches...
 
alpinenut said:
Get the crowd against him. He has always felt slighted about Fed and Nadal being more popular than him.
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You are right. I noticed it too.
Djokovic many times after hitting a good shot, looks at the crowd angrily and gestures for support. Its weird act from djokovic
 
The Green Mile said:
Imo, If Nadal and Del Potro played more often Nadal would have a similar head to head like Federer- Del Potro, maybe just a couple more wins for Del Potro against Nadal.
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Look closer at the head-to-head. Nadal has three wins over baby teenage Delpo in 2007. Nadal also has three wins over Delpo in 2011, when he was just coming back to tennis after that long lay off. That Indian Wells match in particular was when Delpo had no serve and was far from the top-10 "Delpo" of 2009 or 2012-13.

The head-to-head between the two doesn't tell the whole story. Delpo is quite comfortable playing Nadal.
 
Chanwan said:
Because he can't get enough topspin on his forehand to end the point from the deuce court?
I still don't get the idea of returning half? /most? of Djoko's serves with a drop-shot. First of all, it's insanely hard to do that with a 125 mph serve to the extent where you'll fail a lot more than you succeed - especially with Nadal's return stance 3-4 meters behind the baseline. Secondly, he would be prepared for it after the first two or three drop shots.
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The reason is when djokovic serves wide (from duece court), Nadal goes out of the court and returns it with back hand, leaving a lot of court for djokovic to place his shot.
I said, instead of that weak return and then running around, just hit it towards djokovic back hand deep, OR from outside the court instead of trying for a shot, hit with soft hands towards djokovic duece/ad side where you hit the drop shots.
What this does for djokovic, it takes time to reach to the ad court when you hit it deep. Same with drop shot either duece side or ad side, it will take time for djokovic to come from the baseline. In either case djokovic is not in control, so Nadal can try and win that point.
 
The-Champ said:
Exactly! Djokovic hates the Federer-Haas types of players. Can you say...all-courters? Novak is a different type of player than Nadal where the latter likes a target. Old Haas managed 3 wins against Djokovic while he can barely squeeze a set against Nadal in all shape or form. Djokovic is lucky not to be playing in the 90s because he would be facing those kind of players everywhere he goes. The Federer-Haas types.
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Too bad your hero Nadal can't employ the same tactics ;) He has to play low percentage tennis all day long in order to beat Djokovic. And it finally takes its tool, it drains him both physically and mentally.

Now, let's get serious, Djokovic would certainly not play the type of tennis he plays now in 90s. You sound like those fanboys (from another fanbase) who believe that Nadal would have never won Wimbledon/USO had he played in 90s. Pure speculation and nothing more. Those guys have proven that they can adopt their game.

EDIT: By the way, I agree with your statement that the Fed-Haas type of players trouble Djokovic much more than the Nadal type of player, although his style is pretty unique.
 
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The-Champ said:
During Nadal's match against Hewitt in Miami(?), they showed Nadal's forehand pattern at the USO finals in 2011 and 2013 against Djokovic. In 2011, Nadal used the dtl fh 31%, while in 2013 roughly 46%. I think that made a huge factor in the outcome of the match.
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I agree.
Along with DTL forehand, Nadal should also use Cross court forehand, it looks so artistic and beautiful.
 
JohnKramer said:
They might have but only when the shot was not powerful.
A powerful CC was always a sure shot winner for Nadal.
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It's his inside-out forehand that he hits most of his winners with. The CC forehand is his rally shot, where he pushes his opponents further and further behind until he gets an error or a weak reply to put away.

Btw - I still don't agree with the tactic on the wide Djokovic' serve. I don't think you realize just how hard it would be to try and hit a drop shot, while stretched on your backhand on a 115 mph wide serve - 80+% of the time, he would either fail or give Djoko a very, very easy ball. Less than 5 % he would win outright. 10 % would end up in a neutral rally position. Imo.
As far as aiming for deep in the ad-court, sure - but it would also give more mistakes as the target is much smaller -> not Nadal's style.
 
JohnKramer said:
what is changing effects and heights of the ball. Can you elaborate?
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Djokovic's game is pretty unidimensional. He loves to receive the same ball over and over again, he feel really confortable against that, and that's why he feels somewhat confortable against Nadal (who doesn't have any effect aside for his constant top spin) and really confortable with big shooters like Berdych and Delpo.

When he faces players that varies the shots, changes the heights of the ball constantly -this means, not giving Nole the same ball over and over again -one hight ball, one low ball, one slice... Djokovic HATES this. This is when he tends to make mistakes and get out of his confort zone.

You think its coincidence that an all rounder cappable of changing effects contasntly like old Roger is able to beat this guy? No, it is not. Why Murray always trouble Djokovic too ?

It's not science guys. I agree with the guy that commented above. He would have been troubled a lot back in the 90s with all the all rounders playing back then.
Instead, he is finding a lot of success in a era where the players doesn't have varity on their shots. Tennis has become very unidimensional with the years, and Djokovic is the king of them.
 
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