How to contact Patrick McEnroe??

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
I don't get this discussion. Many of the top players that play at the Usta still train with their private coaches. In the morning they work with their coaches off site 7-9, at the Usta by 10 and train all day. The advantage is that the Usta provides a tremendous opportunity to play practice matches against excellent players, and they do the fitness. They also take the kids to itfs around the world, with coaches, for free or almost free. It is an opportunity for nonwealthy players that is unbelievable. The Usta puts their name on these kids, but they still work with their own coaches.
Some do work with private coaches and some don't. USTA doesn't put their names on these kids either, people on the forum do.
 

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
But top 20 ATP in 5 years is not a big order.
I've always admired your determination, but these are the kind of statements/predictions that ruin your credibility and will determine, based on the outcome, the difference between a genius and a laughing stock. I genuinely hope it comes to pass. I would rather say "I remember that genius from TT", rather than the alternative!
 
I've always admired your determination, but these are the kind of statements/predictions that ruin your credibility and will determine, based on the outcome, the difference between a genius and a laughing stock. I genuinely hope it comes to pass. I would rather say "I remember that genius from TT", rather than the alternative!
OK lets see my player spends about 65-80% of his on court training is hitting balls out of a basket each week , has a couple of hitting partners a 16 yr old Asian girl and a 17yr Asian boy whos is burnt out from earlier success and every so often is lucky when a local coach calls him to hit with a real pro player and once in a while a college player .

With that what are his chances of dominating a strong power like So.Cal tennis ?

What is the chances of him being no.1 in each age group in So.Cal 10,12,14,16, presently no.2 or 3 in the 18's ?

Now lets do a hypothetical lets place him in Boca give him 6-8 boys players of his level allow his dad to continue coaching him ! considers what could come of that situation ?


This is the reality of DB's situation and your right it takes desire and determination to make it to the top and the proof of what he has accomplished with so little proves he has what it takes.

Has nothing to do with being a genius or a laughing stock it's simple math .
 
Called it.

I sense bitterness by not being a chosen one and having the door closed on them at Carson. But truth is, there are players out there winning and progressing, not coming up with the 15th excuse for not playing or winning. USTA doesn't have time for those, there are success to seize. USTA certainly makes errors that are blatant (the new tournament system is just wrong), but I can't trash them on everything. I have seen development plans on players they do with private coaches and they are actually very impressive. There are just so many things that can't be put in a plan that are out of everyone's control (emotional issues, family, injuries, passion or lack of, competitive environment and reaction to it, etc, etc, etc) so the outcome is just a crapshoot, no matter the plan. Best to do is wish them all well. But when someone says they are gonna have a top 20 player simply cause a kid is 6' 5" but has no record to back it up, yes, it is easy to see them as a laughing stock rather than a genius. Portending that it is that easy devalues the work and achievements the top players are putting in.

I believe in the saying, let the racquet do the talking. Show us the results. Anything else is just bs.
Just to make it clear no doors were shut not bitter either ,there is a wide open door for him , we as a team look at it like a business , Who would you invest in US Post office or Fed-Ex or UPS .

The difference for any business man is Fed Ex and UPS have a profit margin the Post office with the huge government backing $$$ is close to closing their doors .

Look at all the players who have joined up with the USTA over the last 10 years "I am sure Chalkflewup can rattle off a bunch of names he knows have gone through there", they were all looking to go pro ,Sarmiento ,E.King Larence Formentera, Michael McClune ,ect. were talking kids that "have the winning records your saying my player needs" ,WELL Guess what he at 16yrs old is receiving lots of letters from some of the best schools in the USA they cant talk to him but they sit court side and watch his matches from beginning to end.

So to sum it up we have our vision we are hitting our goals we are "building" our player for whats ahead.
 

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
OK lets see my player spends about 65-80% of his on court training is hitting balls out of a basket each week , has a couple of hitting partners a 16 yr old Asian girl and a 17yr Asian boy whos is burnt out from earlier success and every so often is lucky when a local coach calls him to hit with a real pro player and once in a while a college player .

With that what are his chances of dominating a strong power like So.Cal tennis ?

What is the chances of him being no.1 in each age group in So.Cal 10,12,14,16, presently no.2 or 3 in the 18's ?

Now lets do a hypothetical lets place him in Boca give him 6-8 boys players of his level allow his dad to continue coaching him ! considers what could come of that situation ?


This is the reality of DB's situation and your right it takes desire and determination to make it to the top and the proof of what he has accomplished with so little proves he has what it takes.

Has nothing to do with being a genius or a laughing stock it's simple math .
While I disagree that building a top 20 tennis pro is not just "simple math", I wish you the best of luck. Right now it's all speculation. Time will tell.

The "genius or laughing stock" part refers to the outrageous claims and predictions made over and over that have no experience or track record to back them up. The harsh reality is that if your player makes it to the top, everyone will say, "man, that guy had it right". If not, you're just another crazy tennis parent who thought they knew everything.
 
Hey Chalk do us a favor if your near the USTA Boca today, I heard there was a college camp going on give us all the names of the players there from the colleges so we can see which ones are from the USTA development program of yester-year and are back to hit with the future college kids there now.
 
While I disagree that building a top 20 tennis pro is not just "simple math", I wish you the best of luck. Right now it's all speculation. Time will tell.

The "genius or laughing stock" part refers to the outrageous claims and predictions made over and over that have no experience or track record to back them up. The harsh reality is that if your player makes it to the top, everyone will say, "man, that guy had it right". If not, you're just another crazy tennis parent who thought they knew everything.
I do agree with you I think all you post is dead on and will be deserved in the end one way or another !
 

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
I do agree with you I think all you post is dead on and will be deserved in the end one way or another !
And know this... while I've disagreed at times and agreed others, I've never wished anything but success for your player. Like I said, I would love to be watching a major one day and say... "hey, I used to know that guy from the forums". How cool that would be.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Its about quality .
Why not let them and their parents decide if the supposedly "low" quality of a USTA coaching center is worth the expensive fees of a private "high" quality coach? I am aware that MIT is an excellent school, but my son will go where he gets some money, or if none, to the cheapest in-state public school offering his major. After all, me and my wife need to lead a retired life one day without being a burden on him.
 

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
The "genius or laughing stock" part refers to the outrageous claims and predictions made over and over that have no experience or track record to back them up. The harsh reality is that if your player makes it to the top, everyone will say, "man, that guy had it right". If not, you're just another crazy tennis parent who thought they knew everything.
I believe 99% of the parents here root for the top kids but nobody wants to listen to a bragging parent.
 

tennis5

Professional
I don't think USTA owns or pretends to own players, that is a label us common folk use as chalk said. So I wouldn't expect USTA to develop a player from start to a top 20 finish. I do think they are there to supplement a players training at various stages by inviting them in for hits, aiding them in travel or wildcards, giving them opportunities for competition, whatever push a player may need because they have earned the assistance. Our local academy had a player "stolen" by USTA, but truth is, that kid couldn't be doing all the travel on his own and getting the better hits he should have. Family couldn't afford it and once at the top 10 level, there just aren't players around geograhically. No, they didn't develop him, but they are aiding in his development from this point on. Otherwise he wouldn't have it. Usually after stealing (which is actually a compliment), if the relationship is good, they will send players to your academy because you are obviously doing a good job. Hopefully, if your player is good enough, the coach has the connections to get them in front of USTA. If they don't then the player has to do it on their own by winning and exposing him or herself. On the other side, the wildcard system has its flaws, as some players are given way too many while others are certainly missed. The will give one to a 14 year old for "experience" (no chance of winning) over an older player trying to break through, or if you are friends with someone at USTA, things like that. There is certainly a political side, and even when players deserve them, it helps to know how to work the system. So yes, there are aspects to USTA that suck, but they are not all evil.
The USTA has invited kids to be full time players
( thus they had to give up school and do it online ( IMO - now a subpar education at hand))
and then after spending some $, and some wildcards, junior doesn't work out.....
Then, junior, who might be 12 years old, gets kicked out.

Now, is the USTA really to blame....
Well, first the parents get the blame for being suckered into a system
where they ( the USTA) doesn't give a ______ about your kid.

Wildcards .... I have been following them and they do not seem to be used wisely.
Why not just make it a qualifier......

And on qualifiers tournaments, invite some kids besides the PD kids.
Last tournament in Boca that Chalk talked about it here, and reported from Zoo tennis:
A few days ago, the USTA held its annual boys tournament in Boca Raton to decide two of the spots on the 2012 team that will travel to the Teen Tennis tournament in Great Britain and Les Petits As in France.

Well, that qualifier tournament was only for USTA PD kids.......

For the newbies, buyer beware of the USTA. They will test out coaches on your kid, change a grip, change it again 2 months later with a new coach, injure your kid, and then when things don't work out, after you pulled your kid out of school for their experiment, they can kick your kid out.

Sounds pretty evil to me.
 
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chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
The USTA has invited kids to be full time players
( thus they had to give up school and do it online ( IMO - now a subpar education at hand))
and then after spending some $, and some wildcards, junior doesn't work out.....
Then, junior, who might be 12 years old, gets kicked out.

Now, is the USTA really to blame....
Well, first the parents get the blame for being suckered into a system
where they ( the USTA) doesn't give a ______ about your kid.

Wildcards .... I have been following them and they do not seem to be used wisely.
Why not just make it a qualifier......

And on qualifiers tournaments, invite some kids besides the PD kids.
Last tournament in Boca that Chalk talked about it here, and reported from Zoo tennis:
A few days ago, the USTA held its annual boys tournament in Boca Raton to decide two of the spots on the 2012 team that will travel to the Teen Tennis tournament in Great Britain and Les Petits As in France.

Well, that qualifier tournament was only for USTA PD kids.......

For the newbies, buyer beware of the USTA. They will test out coaches on your kid, change a grip, change it again 2 months later with a new coach, injure your kid, and then when things don't work out, after you pulled your kid out of school for their experiment, they can kick your kid out.

Sounds pretty evil to me.
Well I respect your perspective that an online education is a sub par education, however; I don't agree with you. Our education system is embracing and racing to implement distance learning and this is really beginning to take off at the university level. I know of many successful home schoolers including 2 that play tennis at West Point.

I am certain that non USTA kids participate in qualifier playoffs. I watched one of the events and saw several non PD kids competing. Heck, one of the non PD kids participation was even covered by his local paper. I was also at a tournament recently where the main draw WCs were awarded to non PD kids and there were PD kids in the qualies. Sure PD kids receive WCs but it's not exclusive to them.

USTA is a large organization with many fingers that extend well beyond PD, wild cards and junior tennis which is where your gripes appear to be. Is USTA evil? I don't believe this to be true. Is it a business? Absolutely.
 

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
The USTA has invited kids to be full time players
( thus they had to give up school and do it online ( IMO - now a subpar education at hand))
and then after spending some $, and some wildcards, junior doesn't work out.....
Then, junior, who might be 12 years old, gets kicked out.

Now, is the USTA really to blame....
Well, first the parents get the blame for being suckered into a system
where they ( the USTA) doesn't give a ______ about your kid.

Wildcards .... I have been following them and they do not seem to be used wisely.
Why not just make it a qualifier......

And on qualifiers tournaments, invite some kids besides the PD kids.
Last tournament in Boca that Chalk talked about it here, and reported from Zoo tennis:
A few days ago, the USTA held its annual boys tournament in Boca Raton to decide two of the spots on the 2012 team that will travel to the Teen Tennis tournament in Great Britain and Les Petits As in France.

Well, that qualifier tournament was only for USTA PD kids.......

For the newbies, buyer beware of the USTA. They will test out coaches on your kid, change a grip, change it again 2 months later with a new coach, injure your kid, and then when things don't work out, after you pulled your kid out of school for their experiment, they can kick your kid out.

Sounds pretty evil to me.
Then I guess you should be happy the USTA has so far ignored your son, who you refer to here on this forum. Either that or your kid was chosen and they inflicted experiments and injuries on him.
 
The USTA training is free. I hear a lot of criticism from parents whose kids are training with the USTA. We as tennis players, tennis parents and tennis coaches are not entitled to any free player development training. This should never be a system to please the masses. It should be for players that want to play professionally and also have the drive, talent, intelligence, athleticism and physique to make it in the toughest of professional sport opportunities. The USTA shouldn't be training any kids that are planning on going to college instead of the tour because these kids are already settling on not making it. Almost all of these kids will end up going on to play college tennis, but they should be thinking pro tennis right up to college entrance time.
 
Let’s not worry about Evil …. How about

The USTA is more worried about the PD program, the PD coaches, and the USTA management then they are about US Junior Tennis.

If they had to choose between the USA producing world class tennis players and what is good for the adults managing the USTA they would, and I would say they have, chosen themselves every time.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
How do you contact this clown?

He's stolen now 3 players from our local Academy and ruined it. It's really getting out of control and coaches all of the US are in absolute rage over this. It's getting out of hand at this point....

Any way to reach him directly?
Isnt' there a rule on which coach can contact who as far as junior coaching goes ? like NFL has rules on who can talk to who and when. Otherwise, it will be like wild wild west, free for all and like you said any coach can steal any junior at any time.
You may want to complain to governing body of USTA and if this is international situation, then ITF junior governing body. and if this really gets out of hand, talk to someone that is very familiar with the rules and law regarding this are might be wise thing to do.
 
I believe 99% of the parents here root for the top kids but nobody wants to listen to a bragging parent.
Because I say our plan is to have our child grow up and become a Dr.,fireman,police officer, navy seal , farmer , and we our gonna do our best to train him to fulfil one of these occupations Is that bragging ? Not at all that's the plan ! Will it happen ? Will see .

Please go through all my post and pull out a statement of blatent bragging I would like to see that .Also make sure you look in Webster Dictionary to have tghe definition on hand to test against what I have said .

Its like all the college grads on here who define and athlete by their skin color. Pretty insulting to the neiborhood brother .
 
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Most kids in the Boca program are just test project cause if they were looking to turn pro they would not allow them to get away with using fake ID's ,drinking, having s*x ,watching Po*n , punching a fellow roommate and any parent knowing their child was part of this and didn't pull them out of the program is pretty pathetic .
 

gully

Professional
Please go through all my post and pull out a statement of blatent bragging I would like to see that.
I thought you were the "massage therapist." Which of your usernames should we look under?

(Sorry, couldn't resist, and all in good fun. I missed these posts and have been wondering why I bother reading the junior forum. Best of luck to DB as he matures, these are the crucial years.)
 

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
He's stolen 3 future GOATs.

He must be stopped.

I'm talking to my attorneys tomorrow morning and we will get to the bottom of this.
 

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
Because I say our plan is to have our child grow up and become a Dr.,fireman,police officer, navy seal , farmer , and we our gonna do our best to train him to fulfil one of these occupations Is that bragging ? Not at all that's the plan ! Will it happen ? Will see .

Please go through all my post and pull out a statement of blatent bragging I would like to see that .Also make sure you look in Webster Dictionary to have tghe definition on hand to test against what I have said .

Its like all the college grads on here who define and athlete by their skin color. Pretty insulting to the neiborhood brother .
You bash and bash the USTA. You bash the kids. You accuse the USTA of fraud, why don't you file suit?
 
Another "the Yankees are stealing my minor leaguers and bringing them to the big leagues" thread!!! Do these local coaches think they own these kids?
 
I thought you were the "massage therapist." Which of your usernames should we look under?

(Sorry, couldn't resist, and all in good fun. I missed these posts and have been wondering why I bother reading the junior forum. Best of luck to DB as he matures, these are the crucial years.)
I will rub your neck the front or backside I call it the wring job LOL . thanx for the wishes for DB.

It is really sad to see a kid like Lawrence Formentera (look him up) a few years back take the offer to go to Boca and at that time they were into this playing the "Spanish way" , So they had this kid who at the time was 16 yrs old a top recruit in the nation won a lot of tourneys here in So.Cal Easter Bowl, think he was in the final of OB also no.1 in So Cal , this kid was solid , he was the talk of So.Cal ,

Heres what happen he hugged the baseline , had this eastern/semi grip took the ball early ,was really solid , Then Mr.Higerus himself had him start playing about 6-8 ft back and tried having him roll everything back , after 1 year the kid went from winning almost every tournament to not being able to win a 1st round and then they did the loving thing "he couldn't win so they sent him back to Ca" he is playing no.6 at Oklohoma I think.
 

tennis5

Professional
You bash and bash the USTA. You bash the kids. You accuse the USTA of fraud, why don't you file suit?
I don't think he is bashing the kids....
I think he is saying there is no oversight.

Rumor mill has a kid that was kicked out of the USTA up here for breaking another kid's nose. Is anyone watching these kids at all?
 
I don't think he is bashing the kids....
I think he is saying there is no oversight.

Rumor mill has a kid that was kicked out of the USTA up here for breaking another kid's nose. Is anyone watching these kids at all?
I believe another girl was sent out pregnant ! This is what I heard is it true ? i don't know , what about the "fake ID's ? this is not bashing this is what I heard .
I see you get it! But you don't seem like your in a defensive position about anything so you are coming from a objective position.

Broken nose was a kid named Nava "I heard" Chalk have you heard anything about this ?
 

tennis5

Professional
I believe another girl was sent out pregnant ! This is what I heard is it true ? i don't know , what about the "fake ID's ? this is not bashing this is what I heard .
I see you get it! But you don't seem like your in a defensive position about anything so you are coming from a objective position.

Broken nose was a kid named Nava "I heard" Chalk have you heard anything about this ?
Broken nose was in the Billie Jean center. And the kid was kicked out for injuring another player. Nice huh?
But, my question is anyone watching these kids?

And in all fairness, a lot of bad behavior goes on in the academies..
Some of the teenage girls are preyed on a bit by the coaches.
The difference is your paying for this.
 
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chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
I believe another girl was sent out pregnant ! This is what I heard is it true ? i don't know , what about the "fake ID's ? this is not bashing this is what I heard .
I see you get it! But you don't seem like your in a defensive position about anything so you are coming from a objective position.

Broken nose was a kid named Nava "I heard" Chalk have you heard anything about this ?
I have not heard that about Nava. I know who he is though - just don't know about any broken nose. I hear a lot of things but it doesn't mean they are true.
 

tennis5

Professional
I believe another girl was sent out pregnant ! This is what I heard is it true ? i don't know , what about the "fake ID's ? this is not bashing this is what I heard .
I see you get it! But you don't seem like your in a defensive position about anything so you are coming from a objective position.

Broken nose was a kid named Nava "I heard" Chalk have you heard anything about this ?
My issue is they are spending a ridiculous amount of money on kids who are going to go to college......
What a waste of resources.

How about acting like a real not for profit and putting large tennis centers
in financially challenged, disadvantage neighborhoods/cities with free coaching for all.

Or supporting the kids who DON'T go to college and want to go on the tour.
 
My issue is they are spending a ridiculous amount of money on kids who are going to go to college...... hat a waste of resources.

How about acting like a real not for profit and putting large tennis centers in financially challenged, disadvantage neighborhoods/cities with free coaching for all.

Or supporting the kids who DON'T go to college and want to go on the tour.

Absolutely agree with you, tennis5.
 

Tennis_Bum

Professional
Nevermind. You're not a bragger. I think that was the massage therapist bragging about you and DB! ;)
That is a classic.

@ Brad, are we going to see your kid in some soCal tourney soon? I would like to stop by to see how amazing the kid is now, considering you have talked a storm about his height and his 130 mph serve. He should just step on the court and collect the trophy then. I would love to see an ATP event in a few years from now and say to my friends that I know the kid and his crazy dad. But for now, I'll settle for an event in soCal if you have his schedule. You should since you are the COACH.
 
That is a classic.

@ Brad, are we going to see your kid in some soCal tourney soon? I would like to stop by to see how amazing the kid is now, considering you have talked a storm about his height and his 130 mph serve. He should just step on the court and collect the trophy then. I would love to see an ATP event in a few years from now and say to my friends that I know the kid and his crazy dad. But for now, I'll settle for an event in soCal if you have his schedule. You should since you are the COACH.
Socal Junior Sectionals... 4th Seed B18s.
 

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
The problem I have with saying USTA only develops college players is that it is a statistical fact, not an intended outcome. When playing tennis at the high levels the PD or other top players around the country do, deciding to go pro is a year to year -- and as it comes closer to a decision -- more like a month to month, evaluation. If you hang around top 10 players, most aren't sure what they are doing right up until signing the LOI or an agency contract. Take this year's Bjorn Fratengelo, he could have ended up in college just as well, but just signed with an agency in the last few days. Ask most top 10 boys at age 12 or 14, and they are sure they are going pro. Ask them at 17 and they have no idea.

So sure, most of the kids at USTA are planning on pro, dreaming, hoping - whatever, but when the time comes, college ends up being the right way to go. Going pro ain't easy. So I don't think they are setting out to train college players, it just ends up that way. Like parents, they are hoping that pro comes along as well. And before I get labeled pro USTA because of this reply, I am neutral on them overall, but feel strongly on different aspects of USTA as it has related to us and players we know. For the record, we turned down the opportunity to train in Boca and chose private coaching because of concerns we had with the program, some mentioned here. But they were helpful when needed as well. I can be on either side of the fence, depending on the issue. We've dealt with it all --- the good, bad and the ugly.
Great response Tree. If you listen to people like Cahill and Gilbert, the game is so physical as a result of training, string technology, etc... so rarely do you see a teen on the scene in today's pro game. This is why the college path for most is still a logical path for an aspiring pro (a la Todd Martin, Blake, McEnroe).

Good luck to your kid.
 

tenniscp

Semi-Pro
The problem I have with saying USTA only develops college players is that it is a statistical fact, not an intended outcome. When playing tennis at the high levels the PD or other top players around the country do, deciding to go pro is a year to year -- and as it comes closer to a decision -- more like a month to month, evaluation. If you hang around top 10 players, most aren't sure what they are doing right up until signing the LOI or an agency contract. Take this year's Bjorn Fratengelo, he could have ended up in college just as well, but just signed with an agency in the last few days. Ask most top 10 boys at age 12 or 14, and they are sure they are going pro. Ask them at 17 and they have no idea.

So sure, most of the kids at USTA are planning on pro, dreaming, hoping - whatever, but when the time comes, college ends up being the right way to go. Going pro ain't easy. So I don't think they are setting out to train college players, it just ends up that way. Like parents, they are hoping that pro comes along as well. And before I get labeled pro USTA because of this reply, I am neutral on them overall, but feel strongly on different aspects of USTA as it has related to us and players we know. For the record, we turned down the opportunity to train in Boca and chose private coaching because of concerns we had with the program, some mentioned here. But they were helpful when needed as well. I can be on either side of the fence, depending on the issue. We've dealt with it all --- the good, bad and the ugly.
Great post!
 
Ya, their bodies can need more time to mature for today's game. I wonder about Sock's injury -and if had anything to do with going pro too early for him... I have no knowledge, have just wondered...haven't heard anything about his status since his surgery (sorry to hijack this thread, but curious).
Jack is saying hell be back for Newport in July.
 
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