how to convince someone that they stink and needs an overhaul?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by pushing_wins, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    playing tennis for over 20 years

    self-rated 5.5

    i speculate he cannot win a 3.5 tournament, but we can never find out. he only enters 5.0+ tournaments.

    record in 5.0+ tournament is 3 wins 75 loses. 2 from defaults.

    tennis is his life

    he has really thick skin

    i have though about posting a video here, he will just say the jury are all hacks. so i m not going to bother

    i presented this
    http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/FindRating.aspx
    there are 143 5.5 players in a population of 300000. do u really think u are one of them? if u were truly one of them, i wouldnt be having this discussion with u at this moment

    he also refuses to watch himself on video or review his tournament record

    thank you aphex, thank your for taking the time to create a summary all my commets on this thread. please see reply #124.


    11/5/2010 edit:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    evidence he presented to support his 5.5

    he landed tennis jobs in florida 25 years ago. i saw him play back then. he was still losing 1st round.

    he got to hit with some 5.0 - 5.5 once or twice last summer.

    11/5/2010 edit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    see post #162 - results so far
    39 member responded
    32 responded delusional
    7 have no opinion
    0 found reason to believe he may in fact be a 5.5
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
    #1
  2. Zachol82

    Zachol82 Professional

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    Just beat him?
     
    #2
  3. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    no no no

    2 and 75

    he will only play players whom he perceives as good players. so it would be ok to lose to them.
     
    #3
  4. rfm29

    rfm29 Rookie

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    Why do you care so much? he's the one losing all the time.
     
    #4
  5. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    thanks for your reply

    however, ur question is irrelevant

    please help, thanks
     
    #5
  6. hyperwarrior

    hyperwarrior Professional

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    The guy is in denial!!! So what about his 2-3 wins? Are they against self-rated 5.5 or legit 5.0, 5.5?
     
    #6
  7. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Perhaps playing against more skilled players lifts his own game up. If he were to play 3.5 players, he might be disinterested, annoyed, flat-footed, etc. His game may suffer or sink to that lower level because he is not motivated to try to compete with those players.

    Questions: Does he derive satisfaction from playing those higher level players, even tho' he loses? Does he get frustrated losing to these 5.0/5.5 players? If he enjoys it, why not let him have that?
     
    #7
  8. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Ask him if he really wants to win at a high level vs. just doing the same thing and losing. In the end he has to motivate himself to change.
     
    #8
  9. FTS

    FTS Banned

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    You've got to get him to lose to 3.5-4.0 several times in a row. It's the only way.
     
    #9
  10. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    3 wins. 2 were defaults.

    1 win against self rated 5.0. his opponent was playing his first tournment ever.
     
    #10
  11. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    he wont play down. he says he doenst play with hacks.
     
    #11
  12. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    over 100 1st round loses. 75 in 15 years i have known him. you start to believe in your excuses.

    i told him. insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

    he drop out of high school. he dedicated his life to tennis. he is not the brightest bulb.

    please advise
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
    #12
  13. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    bad players does bring your game down

    but a good player brings a bad players game up and still
    doube bagels them. that is a GOOD player.

    he think he belong amongst the better players in this city. he simply doesnt belong.

    there are usually a couple of guys who enter the 5.0 knowing that they dont stand a chance. they know they do not belong. they are doing this instead of spending money on a hitting session. however, this doesnt apply the guy in question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
    #13
  14. FTS

    FTS Banned

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    Okay, here's the plan. Find someone lower ranked, the lower the better, that you're fairly sure can beat this guy. Now tell said guy you know a 5.5 player that needs a top notch partner to play some sparring matches with. After the loss, inform guy that you just found out Mr. 5.5 is really 3.5!
     
    #14
  15. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    my thoughts exactly. I'd even volunteer to be the make believe 5.5 :)
     
    #15
  16. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    I'd don't think there is a way to convince him of the truth. If he's lost that many matches at 5.0 and still thinks he's a 5.5 then it's a lost cause.

    You don't explain your motivation in wanting to get through to him. Is it for his own good? Or does it just bug you that he thinks he's so much better than he really is? Just accept that he's delusional and move on.
     
    #16
  17. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    we know all the top notch players in the city.

    they only play with other top notch players, unless u pay.

    he knows i cannot get hits with top notch players. and if somehow i do secure a hit with a good player, he knows i will definitely hog it for myself.

    he will suspect something is up. but then again, he is not the brightest bulb.

    also, he might refuse to play the guy a match after he sees how he hits in the warm-up. he will come up with some lame excuse. he will see no problem rejecting the match because he doesnt have any intention playing this guy ever again.

    there are usually a couple of good 4.0 players in the 5.0 tourneys. they beat him pretty convincingly like 2 and 2. i have pointed out to him that they are 4.0 players. he refuses to check the record of these players and is convinced that they are legitimate 5.0 players.
     
    #17
  18. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    for his own good.
    please advise
     
    #18
  19. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    it would be hard to beleive

    a legit 5.5 looking for a random hit in this city

    he will only play with people he knows or knows of

    this guy is a snob
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
    #19
  20. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah let it be.

    Maybe work on helping him get a better job or better education.
     
    #20
  21. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    with his permission, video tape him and post it here and have him look at the feedback. You said he has thick skin.

    I'm curious, have you tried to use reason with him? Perhaps he doesn't understand what the ratings entail.
     
    #21
  22. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i have thought about that.

    he will just say you guys are all wrong

    he will reference back to his vic braden book from the 80's. how the game really hasnt change that much. he already know everything there is to know about tennis. how tom okker hit a modern day forehand back in the 70s.
     
    #22
  23. 120mphBodyServe

    120mphBodyServe Banned

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    If you can't get this guy to see the light, then stop wasting your time with him.
    Why do you need his permission to video tape him playing?
    Just do it when he's not looking. Or do it from a distance.
     
    #23
  24. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    he will say u r a hack. u dont know how to rate properly
     
    #24
  25. 120mphBodyServe

    120mphBodyServe Banned

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    Ditch the idiot and get some new friends.
     
    #25
  26. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    again, use reason.

    Upon what basis is he rating himself as a 5.5?
     
    #26
  27. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    This is a waste of time. OP, get over it and move on.
     
    #27
  28. pushing_wins

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    i know in life, u got to pick your battles. i have considered that.

    i cant simply run away on this one. i wish i could just let it go.
     
    #28
  29. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    simliar to the 6.0 that was playing beside us at davisville
     
    #29
  30. shazbot

    shazbot Semi-Pro

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    Tell him he has a small wank.

    He'll understand how the two go hand in hand.
     
    #30
  31. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    come on dude. all jokes aside. this is important. please help
     
    #31
  32. FTS

    FTS Banned

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    Alright you need something more subtle. I got it! Say that you paid for 5.5 hitting partner but that something came up and you don't want to waste your money, so maybe he'd like to play him.
     
    #32
  33. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    sure , he will reject playing a match after he warms up with this guy.

    i have offered to put up $100 for a match between him and a 4.0. he refused.
     
    #33
  34. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    You can't increase someone's intelligence.. and you can't convince people out of their stupidity. You have to live and die with it. I've met you in real life and I still find it hard to believe that someone this insensible actually exists..
     
    #34
  35. RichT

    RichT New User

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    Appeal to his ego.

    I suspect you may have already tried this, but it's my suggestion for what it's worth.

    You need to appeal to the guys ego (alot). Ask him to help you improve a 4.0 that you believe has a lot of potential. Tell him it would really help you out to get someone else's opinion etc etc. Big it up and sell it to him. Pick a 4.0 you know can turn it on when he wants.

    Tell him the "kid" needs to improve his game play, footwork whatever and you think he'd benefit from Mr 5.5's experience - blah blah.

    Tell the 4.0 to keep it competitive but let this guy win. Mr 5.5 will probably turn around and say the "kid" is wasting his time - blah blah - but ultimately he'll have a taste of victory. This is where you chime in and ask him to hit with the "kid" a few more times to help him improve.

    After a couple of matches have the 4.0 hammer him. You can hear Mr 5.5 already saying: the "kid" got lucky...

    That's when you say - well that's 2 for 3, wanna go for 3 for 5? The "kid's" up for it... you'd help me teach the "kid" not to get too full of himself. Of course the "kid" wins... Two a piece - gotta play a decider...

    In time he'll probably realise that 4.0 is a better level for him because he will have won a few and lost a few.

    That's when you sell him on the idea that playing in 4.0 - 4.5 leagues would be better because he's got a real chance of winning.

    Gotta be worth a go.

    If he isn't interested and only wants to play up, then you have to be completely straight with him. You might loose a friend over it, but that's his problem IMO.
     
    #35
  36. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    worry about your game and how to improve it. You are still not a pro, so look into people above you rather than discouraging people below you.
     
    #36
  37. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    thank you for your input

    i have already considered that. your response is irrelevant. walking away is not an option.
     
    #37
  38. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    What do you want us to say? The guy's immature and if he wants to keep losing, let him. There's nothing you can do with stubborn people like this.
     
    #38
  39. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    No i really cannot understand, you are saying that he is not hurt by his losses, he is not comfortable playing with players less than 5 level. Then what benefit can you do to him if you make him realize his level? If your motive is to benefit him, then it is possible only if he plays at the level he is comfortable with. A player can improve only when he plays with player above his ability. That is why in ATP tour, home players are included as wildcards to give them exposure to worldclass tennis.
    If you are searching an answer to insult him and get rid of him from your level to show your suprimacy then already you got handful of answers.
     
    #39
  40. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    u can play poker all your life and still not realise that you stink. the same applies to tennis but to a lesser extent.

    tennis associations like the ota is not helping the cause. players should not be self rated. player should not be allowed to enter 5.0 unless they have a few trophies in 4.5. thats the way it works in futures tornaments.

    tournamet directors/asssociation structure the current way because they feel they will get more entries.


    life is about getting your way. sometime u have try to win a vote with stupid people.



    btw, how is your game lately?
     
    #40
  41. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    Your idea wont work, winning a tournament is possible only when all players in it are of same level. But you cannot control people of higher level from playing it. Winloss ratio of a player in a league should be considered as a basis in retaining or promoting or moving down a level. In this case the guy whom you hate will be down the 5.5 level long back due to poor win loss ratio. Still you will be facing atleast 1 or 2 self rated players each time but if they are really wrongly rated then they will not stand in your way next time.
     
    #41
  42. brad1730

    brad1730 Rookie

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    Option 1 - Tell him that you're a little down. You believe that your game has slipped, and that you are no longer a 5.5. Then proceed to tell him everything you want to - but with the pretext that it's all about you. When he disagrees with you, and says that you and he are 5.5's - that will give you an opening.

    Option 2 - When introducing this guy to someone new say 'he's a great player, and a former 5.5'

    Option 3 - Ask him 'Have you ever thought about the day that you will peak?' The day that will be your best day of tennis ever, and will never again repeated. I wonder if you've hit that day?
     
    #42
  43. 120mphBodyServe

    120mphBodyServe Banned

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    Oh, he's your brother/cousin?
     
    #43
  44. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    my motivation is irrelevant

    if u play players above, u usually improve your defense.

    playing players below, u work more on mental and offense.
     
    #44
  45. pushing_wins

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    no, he is not
     
    #45
  46. RichT

    RichT New User

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    I presumed you were his coach or captain. IMO you should be completely straight with him. Tell him he's not going to like what you have to say, but given his results, you believe he should take a closer look at his grade. It's his prerogative to play where he wants, but you feel he'd have more fun at a grade or two lower.

    If he's a good friend, he'll take it.
     
    #46
  47. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    What section of the country are you from? Where the heck is he finding all these 5.5 tournaments?
     
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  48. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    he tends to forgets his losses.

    it will take a lot of work to arrange all that. also, he wont play with the kid unless he gets paid for it.

    thanks for your input
     
    #48
  49. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    lol

    ontario.


    not that many, maybe 7 a year.

    he plays 5.0 + tourneys.

    A and open category
     
    #49
  50. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i m totally straight with him. we would argue about it and then forget about it. in a couple of months, same thing over again.

    i dont even bother arguing with him , one on one, i know that will get nowhere. i only bring it up when there is a 3rd party present. he will accuse me that i just like to argue. i m just argumentative. last week, he get all emotional and flustered, and threatens violence.
     
    #50

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