Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sureshs, Nov 5, 2012.
Give me some tips
Its all footwork and prep. I wipe more across the ball against guys with bad footwork and get free points from it. The good players adjust by being ready and just making a few small steps to the side.
That's usually the skidding, low bouncing shot, so stand in, set early, stroke thru the ball, imparting less topspin than usual, since the incoming sidespun ball is bouncing lower.
That's why it's used as an approach shot, with some underspin.
No hitting change? Racket angle, trajectory, etc.?
"stroke thru the ball", not brush up the back.
I don't have a problem with sliced side spin. In fact, I return them with sliced side spin or topspin. I should have clarified.
It is the topspin-sidespin combination I am talking about.
Not for me. I hit with a fair amount of slicers.
The one key is when people say "follow the ball", the main thing is to bend your knees and get low with lower sliced/sidespin balls. The whole sit and lift thing basically.
If you prep early, and are ready, when you get low by bending your knees, you can many times attack slices that are not hit perfectly. The slice is a tough shot to hit skidding and low every time, so once you start to punish a slicer, it really gets in their head and gets you more sitters.
The same goes for topspin/side. Its all prep. at the highest levels it can be very tricky to time out for the first few games.
If you want to be real interested in how heavy heavy spin affects pros, watch a guy play Nadal for the first time. I have seen matches like this and usually the first set is the opponent basically just trying to get the timing. By set 2, they have the timing, but it is too late to recover.
Nobody I know has problems with top/slice combo's, as that's the normal high ball shot hit to you.
Play it just like a topspin shot, since it's up in your strikezone.
What LeeD said, except you have to be more alert in anticipating it and keep your feet moving since how the sidespin takes off the court may vary.
I watched an open level player hit with Sam Stosur and he struggled with it. I have video. You can hear the coach even say how hard it is to deal with the bounce at around :26.
I would think most open players see top with side component all the time. After all, almost every topspin shot not hit from chest high would have to have some sidespin added to the topspin. Shell shocked, more likely, like that Canadian open player hitting with Nalbandian.
But overall, a sidespin component changes the way the ball goes thru the air, compared to topspin or flat. The ball slides deeper than expected, and upon bounce, can skidd slightly, then deadball thru the air dropping sooner than it should.
Just gotta play against JimmyConnors to know.
Once again the video speaks for itself.
What I see from that video...
Stosur is hitting with LeeD. LeeD is so shell shocked, he can't hit the ball even once with his strings, so uses the handle and the tip of the racket frame. Looks like he even uses his buttcap, for that wide shot.
Lee that player is 1,000 times better than you on your best day. Get over yourself for once.
hehehe LeeD things facing Fed or Nadal's side spin is like playing with his friends
Yeah and the funny thing is that I am showing a WTA player hitting with a male open level practice partner who is struggling with her side spin.
Also you can really see how hard she wipes across the ball in that video. She really has exceptional groundstrokes in person.
PowerPlayer, I see why we can't get along....
You have no humor whatsoever. You are an engineer, or scientist type.
I'm an artist.
How many times do I have to post that I am a bad 4.0 singles player?
And how many times do I have to post that in the past, I've hit with CeciMartinez, PeanutLouie, MarcieLouie, SusanBrown, and DanaGilbert? Along with a handful of former No1 singles UCBerkeley women's team players?
And short hits, not practice, with IllanaKloss and RosieCasals?
I can hit 10 balls the same as the guy hitting with Stosur you posted. I can miss 7, hit 2 short, and shank one into the player's bench.
Leed the reason we don't get along is you are often wrong in your assumptions, yet act like you have it all figured out.
I made a career out of being an artist. Im not close being a scientist in any way. You just post all the time and argue all the time, trying to be right on every thread.
there is no way in your current state you would even be allowed on the court with Stosur. Nothing personal, but you would look foolish.
once you get a good idea how your swing is, continue to try to improve it. this means none of your joints in the kinetic chain are near the limit but are in the middle of their sweet spot. and it's better if each of those joints has good range of motion. this helps enlarging the contact zone sweet spot. when this is too small it's like using a very small head racquet.
Funny you should mention that just now, PowerPlayer.
Day before yesterday, was hitting the wall at SanPablo and who should ask me to hit for a "little while" was the local 5.0 guy, who plays A/Opens and does OK. We hit for maybe 25 minutes until his partner showed, and I had to pick up the g/f. He volunteered.."thanks, let's do it again maybe next week"..
My reply was, "thanks, but I have no business hitting with you".
I know what you mean that the shot is difficult to play because that shot usually comes from a big cut with a western grip (ball contact way, way, out in front), so if you guess wrong with the side spin, the point is over. I guess the best advice is that you need to pressure the forehand to keep the opponent from having time to hit bombs.
Why the sudden interest in dealing with sidespin suresh? heheheh :twisted:
If it's a solid shot coming to the forehand side, I sometimes use a fh slice, nothing hard but just enough to get it deep. Absorb it if you can.
How many players can hit a side-topspin? are you a DI player? otherwise I would say it is so rare that you can ignore it (most TS strokes have a very light Sidespin component but nothing heavy).
In table tennis (were side spin has a much bigger role than in tennis) they say you should counter spin with the same opposite spin.
btw are you talking about inside out sidespin (as LeeD stated often happens on a high ball) or outside curve spin like in the table tennis video.
the important skill is being able to correctly evaluate what kind of ball is coming your way.
once you´re good at that all that is left is footwork
That is why I am asking about the first sentence
He asked about SIDE SPIN, not slice or topspin.
Once in awhile I hit with huge side spin, when the ball lands it skirts over a few feet.
The key to pick up huge side spin is to WAIT. If you see your opponent cut the ball heavy to the right or left, get in position, wait, then when it goes 3 feet to say your left, move then take it.
It's funny because I think I have this monster side spin, I use it all the time. When I play my son, who's only 12, because he's used to it, he waits, can't trick him anymore
Answer to second quote can be found implicitly in the first quote.
I know about the same spin theory in table tennis and it is used mainly on the serve. The rule is to push back towards the side the server's swing originated. It amounts to playing with the spin, not against it.
The first problem is tennis is that the opponent is too far across and moving to be able to determine the spin from the stroke easily.
Second is that the coefficient of restitution is not high enough in tennis strings to get the ball back without conscious effort. But I see what you are saying and I do try it - e.g., a forehand ball going away from the body with side spin is amenable to a DTL shot, which means going with the spin.
But what is the general solution?
So far what I have got is to read and wait, then to get low and hit through the ball. But the movement of the ball in the air as well as its creeping effect on the strings is bothering me.
Both, but not with underspin
I do that but it seems defensive
Perhaps none of these people have had true side spin, true side spin when it lands scoot 3-4 feet to your left, the key is not how to hit it but your body position.
You can hist top, flat, or backspin, doesn't matter, what matters is being in position if we are talking about the same thing.
hit thru the ball more. angle the face to opposite direction of spin to counter spin.
Sometimes the best defense, is actually the best offense.
LeeD, why are you picking on engineers. We have the best sense of humor as well as refined artistic tastes. Who do you think buys Frank Zappa music?
Lol..thats gold. Haha.
but sureshs..it´s play tennis not talk tennis that let´s you improve
tennis is not a science as much as a sport, go out and do it don´t overcomplicate things
From the stroke of your opponent, if you watch closely enough, you should be able to have a pretty good idea where the ball will kick after the bounce. It's all about your footwork adjustment. To me it's more important to know what will happen to the ball after the bounce rather than during it's flight path.
I don't pick on engineers and scientists. My current g/f is head scientist for the micro biology lab here in AlbanyCa., USDA.
PowerPlayer, who thinks he's an artist, thinks like an engineer. A + B MUST = C, no other possible answer. And, "if I turn 12 degrees left, internally supinate, the ball WILL GO faster and stronger"...
That's PPlayer's thinking. And when he reads a post, he takes it literally. Like I think I can stand in to hit with Stosur. I already said countless times I'm a 4.0. As a 4.0, out of 10 groundies she hits to me, I can shank 3 off the court, hit 4 short and weak back, and hit the net 3 times, just like the guy in the vid did. As can YOU, as can PowerPlayer, as can almost anyone here.
Now if Nalbandian was hitting to me, I'd do twice as badly, because he hits with depth and is not trying to hit easy to start with. I might just shank 7, dump 2 into the net, and hit one long.
NOW, PowerPlayer will come back and say I can't hit 4 back, but in reality, only 3. That's how PowerPlayer thinks, and that's why his thread on his service motion will never be resolved.
the side spin is what i really notice when playing better players. the best advice is be ready, move your feet to put your hands in the position to make the play.
Was this post even necessary? LeeD, you poor soul.
Yeah you don't see much of that at the club level at all. I did not even know that it made such a difference as nothing in tennis teaching prepares you for this.
You have to meet the problem head on
You can't because the spin axis is tilted
Only read the first page so far, but agree with LeeD and Power Player. The thing is, if you have good strokes and movement, then you'll find a way. Even at my level this is not a big problem. Ok, at your level maybe the sidespin can be quite a bit more extreme. Still, I should think that this would not be a major problem ... ie., back to what LeeD and Power Player have said.
Seems to me that you're an experienced player. I trust that you'll find a way to deal with extreme sidespin.
One alternative is to simply not let these spinny players to get into points. But I realize that it might not be that simple.
If it's high, I'll just smash it with top spin. If it's low, I'll use underspin
Is this even an issue?
Could you maybe post a video of what type of shot you're talking about returning?
If your opponent is hitting some kind of federeresque slice drop shot or running forehand just clap your hands and tell him nice shot. If someone can come up with those kind of shots consistently they deserve to win the match.
On most groundstrokes it shouldn't even be an issue.
If it's his serve that has a lot of sidespin, remember to take a compact backswing and just work on your timing. The more times you see that serve, the easier it will be to time.
You shouldn't be worrying about adjusting your racket face angle, or "spin axis" or whatever. Do it by feel. Just move your feet and try to time the ball like you would on any other shot.
You focus way to much on racket face angle. Most people know the right angle just through feel and practice. If you're worrying about something like that in a match, your strokes will break down.
I remember reading a great quote from federer where he was asked about his groundstroke technique. He basically said that all the top players look about the same when they make contact with the ball. The differences before they get their are mostly stylistic.
Federer doesn't worry about changing his racket face angle. In fact he tries to keep it the same every time. Your should do the same. Worry about things like timing, prep, and footwork. If you're trying to alter your racket face angle every time you will be an unforced error machine.
i think it´s a case of over-analysing something that should really be solved on-court by playing.
you have to learn to read the incoming ball, and you can only do that by playing. of course many people don´t pay much attention to what their opponent does and focus on their own strokes only.
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