How to find rhythm playing a pusher
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anubis
Hall of Fame
pushers frustrate other players because everything comes back. You have to fight the tendency to switch to pure attack mode and go for killing shots during every rally.
It is folly to assume that simply because a pusher gets everything back to you that you must murder the ball instead of playing your normal game.
do you always try to kill it when you play someone with more solid strokes? Does every ball that come your way deserve to be destroyed? No, it doesn't.
instead, treat the pusher like any other player. Just play solid strokes, play your normal game, and don't try to destroy the ball every chance you get.
Another thing: only so much pace can be ADDED to the ball. If the pusher hits a slow ball, say only 20 MPH, it is a mistake to try to turn that 20 MPH shot into a 75 MPH shot. Its more reliable and safe to only add a little bit of pace to it. Turn that 20 MPH shot into 30. Then, when he hits back @ 30, turn that into 40 mph. After the 3rd or 4th rally, you may be able to get it up to 60 or 70 mph and then make him uncomfortable.
But to turn a 20 MPH ball into 70 mph in one shot, that's just too much for most amateurs to do reliably.
good luck
It is folly to assume that simply because a pusher gets everything back to you that you must murder the ball instead of playing your normal game.
do you always try to kill it when you play someone with more solid strokes? Does every ball that come your way deserve to be destroyed? No, it doesn't.
instead, treat the pusher like any other player. Just play solid strokes, play your normal game, and don't try to destroy the ball every chance you get.
Another thing: only so much pace can be ADDED to the ball. If the pusher hits a slow ball, say only 20 MPH, it is a mistake to try to turn that 20 MPH shot into a 75 MPH shot. Its more reliable and safe to only add a little bit of pace to it. Turn that 20 MPH shot into 30. Then, when he hits back @ 30, turn that into 40 mph. After the 3rd or 4th rally, you may be able to get it up to 60 or 70 mph and then make him uncomfortable.
But to turn a 20 MPH ball into 70 mph in one shot, that's just too much for most amateurs to do reliably.
good luck
mightyrick
Legend
You need at least one good weapon to beat a pusher. Pushers enjoy lateral running -- side to side. So don't do that.
When you play someone, learn their strengths and weaknesses. Profile them in the first few games. Most true pushers are something like this:
Strengths
Lateral (left-to-right) movement
Pace absorption
Redirection
Weaknesses
"North-south" movement
Net Play and Volleys
Generating Pace
To beat a player with this profile, you don't give them pace and you bring them from the baseline to the net.
So be patient. Hit slowly but accurately. Use a drop-shot or short low shot to bring them forward... and if they get a successful volley from the net... lob them or pass them. If they get that back, repeat the formula.
When you play someone, learn their strengths and weaknesses. Profile them in the first few games. Most true pushers are something like this:
Strengths
Lateral (left-to-right) movement
Pace absorption
Redirection
Weaknesses
"North-south" movement
Net Play and Volleys
Generating Pace
To beat a player with this profile, you don't give them pace and you bring them from the baseline to the net.
So be patient. Hit slowly but accurately. Use a drop-shot or short low shot to bring them forward... and if they get a successful volley from the net... lob them or pass them. If they get that back, repeat the formula.
I've played tournaments against people like what you describe, I call them "walls" not pushers. Basically the guy that will never mishit his shot, and will always get it back over the net.
To beat these guys, you have to be aggressive and win the points with setup. Play them into a tough shot, come to the net, and smash the overhead. My fav way to do that against a right hander is to move them far to their forehand, then hit a good angle to their backhand to get them running, that is where you come in to the net. They will have to either throw up a lob or try something down the line.
You may have to do this all match long, and you will undoubtedly be chasing down some of the lobs that make it over your head but it works the best for me.
To beat these guys, you have to be aggressive and win the points with setup. Play them into a tough shot, come to the net, and smash the overhead. My fav way to do that against a right hander is to move them far to their forehand, then hit a good angle to their backhand to get them running, that is where you come in to the net. They will have to either throw up a lob or try something down the line.
You may have to do this all match long, and you will undoubtedly be chasing down some of the lobs that make it over your head but it works the best for me.
That is a nice easy to execute strategy right there. Like Walter says to the Dude re: the kidnappers drop off plan: "The beauty of this is its simplicity. If the plan gets too complex something always goes wrong. "
TomT
Hall of Fame
What other posters said. My two cents is that I just treat every style the same in that it's just a matter of focusing on the ball, no matter what it happens to be doing. So, in an important sense, pushers (and it's this type of player that one mostly faces at my level) don't present any more of a problem than any other type of player.
Which is not to say that I've had any particular success in playing pushers. I've so far been an equal opportunity loser.
My laziness and slowness in improving has made all types of opponents equally exasperating for me.For me, rhythm has nothing to do with winning points. Each shot to be returned should, I think, be treated as an entity unto itself. The hard part is to just be relaxed and in the moment and focused solely on the ball, and, most importantly, to have done enough correct practicing that most of what I'm going to do regarding any particular shot is more or less automatic.
I'm not there yet, but my suggestion is to not worry or even think about establishing any sort of rhythm, but rather just deal with each shot as a unique little "Everest" to be "conquered".
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Good feel is a tricky animal to nail down - we know it when we feel it, but it's almost completely subjective. I say use whatever sends them good vibrations into your hand. Whatever string I use, there's always a window of a couple lbs. that feels right for me. Not too harsh (no sweet spot), but not too mushy and out of control. I only lower tension a few lbs. when I need to play in colder weather for several days and still need some decent feel.
Want to beat a pusher? Since it's hard to whack their slower "nudge balls" through the court with much control, go to where the big angles live; up at the net. That's where is much easier to hit away from a good scrambler. Those slower shots from their end are also easier to place nice and deep for more effective approach shots.
If you don't have dependable net skills, then that liability in your game will leave you vulnerable to more opponents - not just pushers. Even when you're outgunned from the baseline, having a Plan B where you can press forward to make pressure will give your more options in more situations.
Want to beat a pusher? Since it's hard to whack their slower "nudge balls" through the court with much control, go to where the big angles live; up at the net. That's where is much easier to hit away from a good scrambler. Those slower shots from their end are also easier to place nice and deep for more effective approach shots.
If you don't have dependable net skills, then that liability in your game will leave you vulnerable to more opponents - not just pushers. Even when you're outgunned from the baseline, having a Plan B where you can press forward to make pressure will give your more options in more situations.
LuckyR
Legend
Nope. As everyone mentioned the key does NOT lie in tech, it is in tactics. Basically you don't have the consistancy to play a high consistancy player. You also don't have the putaway power on low consistancy shots. So logically victory for you lies with someone being at the net. You, if you have a good net game, or him, if you are better at passing shots than volleys.
mr_fro2000
Rookie
I definitely find pushers characterized this way more often than not. I would also add that you should bring them to the net and also hit it RIGHT AT THEM. Pusher's deserve no mercy.
On a more serious note, hitting it directly at the person serves 2 purposes... 1) it eliminates some errors in going for passing shots, and 2) it makes them even MORE uncomfortable coming up to net. Use that to your advantage.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
I used to be a Pusher (it is still my Game C) . At that stage of my tennis evolution, i lacked any weapons to threaten the players/friends i was playing against. So consistency, getting more balls in play, some smart placements, ability to run all day long were my strengths.
I then worked on adding offense and during that process lost to many a pushers.
Now the pushers in my leagues dont want to play me.
Couple of things (besides improving my game) that generally work well are
a) get very fit. Send a message to Pusher that you are prepared to stay as long as it takes.
b) Stay Patient. Resist the urge to blast winners off every ball. At Recreational levels, one needs to wait for the right ball to fire the winner. Pushers give plenty of oppurtunities , so the wait wont be too long.
c) Mix up the shots and pace. Pushers like predictability and take that away.
d) Trust your game. Pushers use all sorts of things to frustrate or throw off one's game. Have faith in your training and game.
e) Observe trends/tactics. Good pushers can pick up trends easily. If a particular shot isnt working for an opponent, they would pick that up and make opponent hit a ton of them. We can return them the favor by testing a few things and give them more of whats not working for them.
I then worked on adding offense and during that process lost to many a pushers.
Now the pushers in my leagues dont want to play me.
Couple of things (besides improving my game) that generally work well are
a) get very fit. Send a message to Pusher that you are prepared to stay as long as it takes.
b) Stay Patient. Resist the urge to blast winners off every ball. At Recreational levels, one needs to wait for the right ball to fire the winner. Pushers give plenty of oppurtunities , so the wait wont be too long.
c) Mix up the shots and pace. Pushers like predictability and take that away.
d) Trust your game. Pushers use all sorts of things to frustrate or throw off one's game. Have faith in your training and game.
e) Observe trends/tactics. Good pushers can pick up trends easily. If a particular shot isnt working for an opponent, they would pick that up and make opponent hit a ton of them. We can return them the favor by testing a few things and give them more of whats not working for them.
cork_screw
Hall of Fame
pushers frustrate other players because everything comes back. You have to fight the tendency to switch to pure attack mode and go for killing shots during every rally.
It is folly to assume that simply because a pusher gets everything back to you that you must murder the ball instead of playing your normal game.
do you always try to kill it when you play someone with more solid strokes? Does every ball that come your way deserve to be destroyed? No, it doesn't.
instead, treat the pusher like any other player. Just play solid strokes, play your normal game, and don't try to destroy the ball every chance you get.
Another thing: only so much pace can be ADDED to the ball. If the pusher hits a slow ball, say only 20 MPH, it is a mistake to try to turn that 20 MPH shot into a 75 MPH shot. Its more reliable and safe to only add a little bit of pace to it. Turn that 20 MPH shot into 30. Then, when he hits back @ 30, turn that into 40 mph. After the 3rd or 4th rally, you may be able to get it up to 60 or 70 mph and then make him uncomfortable.
But to turn a 20 MPH ball into 70 mph in one shot, that's just too much for most amateurs to do reliably.
good luck
Yeah I also find that when people realize that they can't "murder the ball" they start to try to repush with a pusher and that gets you absolutely nowhere.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Both anu and cork's posts point out one thing that it fundamentally comes down to your skills and levels. No particular strategy or style is gonna cut it when you talk about opponents in term of "pushers".
One guy talks about murdering the ball instead of playing your normal game but what if your normal game is putting the ball away which you have so much success, ie with lesser players, but it's murdering against someone else. But if you start playing like the one beating you (learning from winner?), you'd feel like you're pushing but can't outpush him (because you're not playing your game)?
Where do excuses end?
I don't think LeeD explains it right either. It's normally very easy to get into the ball's rhythm with a soft, unaggressive hitter. Well, the shot is soft and high margined of errors, the hallmark of someone who's labeled a pusher. It's usually the placement and the running (fitness issue) that kill you. Hm..I just realize ...has anyone seen an overweight pusher?
One guy talks about murdering the ball instead of playing your normal game but what if your normal game is putting the ball away which you have so much success, ie with lesser players, but it's murdering against someone else. But if you start playing like the one beating you (learning from winner?), you'd feel like you're pushing but can't outpush him (because you're not playing your game)?
Where do excuses end?
I don't think LeeD explains it right either. It's normally very easy to get into the ball's rhythm with a soft, unaggressive hitter. Well, the shot is soft and high margined of errors, the hallmark of someone who's labeled a pusher. It's usually the placement and the running (fitness issue) that kill you. Hm..I just realize ...has anyone seen an overweight pusher?
Muppet
Legend
I noticed something that MacEnroe did to some players was breaking their rythm and stealing the perceived momentum. What he did was get into extended arguments with the official on a line call, or whatever. If the other player felt he was controlling the momentum of the match, he could feel it slipping away during the pause.
But the "momentum", or rythm from point to point or set to set, is imaginary. The only control and rythm you can have is during each point. It might help to play each point as if it is a small match in itself. Then move on to the next point.
But the "momentum", or rythm from point to point or set to set, is imaginary. The only control and rythm you can have is during each point. It might help to play each point as if it is a small match in itself. Then move on to the next point.
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Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Both anu and cork's posts point out one thing that it fundamentally comes down to your skills and levels. No particular strategy or style is gonna cut it when you talk about opponents in term of "pushers".
One guy talks about murdering the ball instead of playing your normal game but what if your normal game is putting the ball away which you have so much success, ie with lesser players, but it's murdering against someone else. But if you start playing like the one beating you (learning from winner?), you'd feel like you're pushing but can't outpush him (because you're not playing your game)?
Where do excuses end?
I don't think LeeD explains it right either. It's normally very easy to get into the ball's rhythm with a soft, unaggressive hitter. Well, the shot is soft and high margined of errors, the hallmark of someone who's labeled a pusher. It's usually the placement and the running (fitness issue) that kill you. Hm..I just realize ...has anyone seen an overweight pusher?
Yes. i have played a few of them. Some of them cant even run very well but still have enough movement to be excellent back boarders and push back every ball. One of them even used both hands (sort of like two forehands) to get a racquet on the ball and push it in play. Now it sounds silly that i even lost to him, but i did.
beernutz
Hall of Fame
Like you would have any clue about accurate perception. You are the undisputed master of self-delusion.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
pushers frustrate other players because everything comes back. You have to fight the tendency to switch to pure attack mode and go for killing shots during every rally.
It is folly to assume that simply because a pusher gets everything back to you that you must murder the ball instead of playing your normal game.
do you always try to kill it when you play someone with more solid strokes? Does every ball that come your way deserve to be destroyed? No, it doesn't.
instead, treat the pusher like any other player. Just play solid strokes, play your normal game, and don't try to destroy the ball every chance you get.
Another thing: only so much pace can be ADDED to the ball. If the pusher hits a slow ball, say only 20 MPH, it is a mistake to try to turn that 20 MPH shot into a 75 MPH shot. Its more reliable and safe to only add a little bit of pace to it. Turn that 20 MPH shot into 30. Then, when he hits back @ 30, turn that into 40 mph. After the 3rd or 4th rally, you may be able to get it up to 60 or 70 mph and then make him uncomfortable.
But to turn a 20 MPH ball into 70 mph in one shot, that's just too much for most amateurs to do reliably.
good luck
I definitely agree with this very good post.
