How to get more power from 2Hand Backhand?

[JackB1]

Really? How do you know that when the first post in this thread clearly stated that you get no power on your backhand? Oh well, do what you want. I am tapping out of this one.

I am not saying I can do it. I am merely agreeing with what another poster said.

JUST "stepping in" and shifting your weight is not a guarantee of power. You can shift too early or too late. But I would think you can shift weight and step in properly and still not get much power if you don't use your core & legs properly. I am going to try and do both as much as possible and see if things improve. But the Pro's can get tremendous power even though their feet are in the air, because they are using their core properly.

 

[user92626]

OK, User. FYB seems to say something different. From the FYB page you quoted:



I'm not seeing anything about pointing the racket head up. It sounds like you raise your contact point, racket and arm for higher balls.
I guess this stuff is more complicated than you suggested!

Noooo.... Raise your contact point via the racket head. Keep your arm virtually around same height.

Did you watch the video clip embedded in that page? Video/picture describes this much much better.

 

[darthpwner]

about 10 years ago, on this site, there is a poster name Gandhal, he try to teach his daughter to spin the ball, he saw all the kid use western and bush racket up, he is a guru, try to find a way to do it without western, since western limited the potential to hit thru the ball. every body laugh at him and humiliated him.
There is a poster name NEE, he bite the idea. he with the ball machine try to brush up the ball at contact. in 2 weeks it's too hard for him for the timing, so he think it out: hold your forearm and supinate, you will have a pronate automaticly latter. The result is excellent, he has time to supinate then he let the natural pronation occurs. it really help him time the brush easier. He then represented to Gandhal. and Mr Gandhal call "WINDSHIELD WIPER". that name was born by then.
and that poster NEE is me, 10 years ago, I left tennis for along period of time due to accident and injuries on my shoulder. I cannot hit my 1hbh no more, then i find all kind of way to hit 2hbh, all kind of information, all kind of book go thru my eye, not a whole lot reward. until i read the old copy of Dough King: "The hands have it". i start to hit with only body as he shows. he did not call the push and pull then, it was called by easytennis.com. i think. I try very succesfully with the forehand and after inspect all pro that can see in several recently in tournament, the way they hit 2hbh as i did: with body only. i was succefull easely with push stroke apply to my 2hbh. that's all i can say
you have you head, just think, think and don't disrespect people who has different idea than you.

Was English your first language?

 

[crystal_clear]

This is a great video to discuss - some keys for power:

1) at seconds 8-10, note the head height take back. The drop at seconds 10-11 initiates the power in the swing

2) freeze around seconds 9-10 and you see a closed stance, with the shoulder/torso/hips in line with the intended direction of the ball. Even if you go to a more open stance with the hips, you still want to line up the shoulders

2a) freeze after the swing at 15/16 seconds and you see her hips are parellel to the baseline, meaning that she made a 90 degree hip rotation. also note that the butt of the racquet/left elbow is pointed to the intended target after contact, indicating a 180 degree shoulder rotation from the stroke.

3) Note at second 10, left foot is in the air and at second 12 the right foot is in the air, indicating a full weight shift

4) ***Note that at around second 11, the hips rotate/open toward the net while the racquet stays back - this is similar to professional golf and baseball swings. This motion is key to the kinetic chain and stretches the muscles in the arm to make the ensuing swing more powerful***

5) freeze at 13 and note the extension of the left arm after contact, meaning she has pushed through the shot and brushed up the back - this is where a lot of power is lost in rec players who stop swing forward after contact and cut right to the finish over the shoulder. I like the think of pushing and not swinging with the left arm

This is an excellent second by second analysis, Nellie.

I am not clear about 4) in red. Why "hip rotate/open toward the net while the racket stays back" ? I don't play either baseball or golf. Compare to "start the rotation of your hip, upper body and arm as one unit."
someone mentioned?

 

[user92626]

OHMYGOSH...Nellie's second by second analysis is akin to an analysis of ...walking. Upperbody thrusts forward, back foot slightly bends while allowing the other foot to lift. The lifting is like a forward fall and within that second the front leg is allowed to freely curl ...


So complicated.


If u need this kind of analysis to hit a backhand, I guess learning the tango or any dance for that matter is completely out of question. Dancing has many more steps and synch with a tempo.

 

[ho]

Was English your first language?

no, it's my third language, i speak and write 4 languages, none of them was good:
1. anh noi hay lam
2. vou parlez tres bien
3. you speak very well
4. ni kon tai hoa la
has the same meaning

 

[JackB1]

This is an excellent second by second analysis, Nellie.

I am not clear about 4) in red. Why "hip rotate/open toward the net while the racket stays back" ? I don't play either baseball or golf. Compare to "start the rotation of your hip, upper body and arm as one unit."
someone mentioned?

I think the point here is that if your arms start BEFORE your hips and lower body, you won't be maximizing your power because your swing will be powered mostly bu the arms. On the other hand, if you start with the hips and let the arms be pulled through a bit after, you will be using the natural resistance in your body as a "coil" unloading.

 

[ho]

This is an excellent second by second analysis, Nellie.

I am not clear about 4) in red. Why "hip rotate/open toward the net while the racket stays back" ? I don't play either baseball or golf. Compare to "start the rotation of your hip, upper body and arm as one unit."
someone mentioned?

i watch the video again, clearly, hip uper body and arm rotate in one unit.

 

[ho]

I think the point here is that if your arms start BEFORE your hips and lower body, you won't be maximizing your power because your swing will be powered mostly bu the arms. On the other hand, if you start with the hips and let the arms be pulled through a bit after, you will be using the natural resistance in your body as a "coil" unloading.

excellent Mr Jack, she is in advance mode, by the time the arm, body hit the ball, if you have the arm a little behind your body, arm will spring out to push the racket into the ball. but it can only do after the ball was hit with body in one unit.

 

[crystal_clear]

I think the point here is that if your arms start BEFORE your hips and lower body, you won't be maximizing your power because your swing will be powered mostly bu the arms. On the other hand, if you start with the hips and let the arms be pulled through a bit after, you will be using the natural resistance in your body as a "coil" unloading.

That makes sense~ Does this apply to FH too?

I was told not to open shoulder toward the net too soon. Open shoulder and open hips are different things, am I right?

 

[JackB1]

That makes sense~ Does this apply to FH too?

I was told not to open shoulder toward the net too soon. Open shoulder and open hips are different things, am I right?

Yes. Shoulders come with arms and should be slightly delayed until after the hips. It's a kinetic chain. Works the same with the forehand. If you can lead with the hips and try and hold back the ahoulders then arms until you feel some resistance and then you let it go.

My problem is I can do this with my forehand and get effortless power on my forehand, but struggle to do the same thing with my backhand.

 

[ho]

My problem is I can do this with my forehand and get effortless power on my forehand, but struggle to do the same thing with my backhand.

i you mastered the concept in no time, you will master the stroke in few weeks.
i jump from 3.0 2hbh (3.0= some time deep, some time short, some time with power, sometime no power, some time high, some time low) to 4.0 (4.0=consistant deep with decent power, clear the net 1, 2 feet consistently, can trade with decent speed 10 time over the net with ball comming to you consistent moderate speed) in just 2 weeks. i been stucked with 3.0 for the previous 3 years !!!
now come to 4.5 that's serious problem, i do not have God given talent. (strength and athletic) and i never think that i will get to it with age.

 

[10ACE]

I think the secret to easy power on the two-hander is an active dominant arm. Too many players hit the two-hander as a non-dominant hand forehand with the dominant primarily used for stability. I use my right hand (I'm a rightie) for the entire takeback and the initiation of the forward swing, and my left arm engages just after the forward swing begins. You can also perform a stretch shortening cycle with the two-hander as well. Your dominant forearm/wrist will pronate and flex while your non-dominant hand supinates and extends for the stretch portion of the cycle, and then the dominant forearm/wrist supinates and extends while the non-dominant forearm/wrist pronates and flexes for the shortening portion of the cycle. Keep both arms and hands nice and relaxed and keep the elbows close to the torso. The farther your arms stray from your body the less of your hips and core you can utilize.

Read his answer- Delpo has a fantastic loose arm crow elbow back hand- Safin has a fantastic wrist snap arms more full in extension.

 

[10ACE]

Yes. Shoulders come with arms and should be slightly delayed until after the hips. It's a kinetic chain. Works the same with the forehand. If you can lead with the hips and try and hold back the ahoulders then arms until you feel some resistance and then you let it go.

My problem is I can do this with my forehand and get effortless power on my forehand, but struggle to do the same thing with my backhand.

I have to admit- with my Dunlop 200AG's even with my 2HBH which is very good- I needed to ad weight in the head to get the plow through- otherwise it was too lite for my swing-

 

[crystal_clear]

Yes. Shoulders come with arms and should be slightly delayed until after the hips. It's a kinetic chain. Works the same with the forehand. If you can lead with the hips and try and hold back the ahoulders then arms until you feel some resistance and then you let it go.

My problem is I can do this with my forehand and get effortless power on my forehand, but struggle to do the same thing with my backhand.

Thanks Jack～ My BH seems more natural compared to my FH. How do you know you are actually rotating hips first? Is it like what Kendrick demonstrates in the video, "Hold, hold... then hit..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyT0S95raco

 

[user92626]

now come to 4.5 that's serious problem, i do not have God given talent. (strength and athletic) and i never think that i will get to it with age.

What does 4.5 require, ho?

 

[JackB1]

Thanks Jack~ My BH seems more natural compared to my FH. How do you know you are actually rotating hips first? Is it like what Kendrick demonstrates in the video, "Hold, hold... then hit..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyT0S95raco

I think the key is that the hips start the kinetic chain. If the arms come before the lower body, you will have to use your arms to generate all the power.

 

[supineAnimation]

I think the key is that the hips start the kinetic chain. If the arms come before the lower body, you will have to use your arms to generate all the power.

The hips are very important, Jack, but actually the legs initiate the rotation of the tips.

 

[JackB1]

The hips are very important, Jack, but actually the legs initiate the rotation of the tips.

I think the foward weight shift initiates the legs and then hips...correct?

 

[ho]

What does 4.5 require, ho?

speed. it a huge gap between 4.0 and 4.5 and the hardest to over come with technique.
like on your forehand, you need to upgarde with your snap the wrist if you don't have enough speed. and snap the wrist is not everybody can do, set aside dedication. you see on the video of Sharapova, she snap the wrist on her 2hbh? don't try it. you jump from 4.0 2hbh to 2.0 2hbh in any day if you do not have dedication.
My 2nd son, a walk-on at the university of Texas at Austin, never get to that level until 15 years later, once he start to pay attention to technique, it help him a little. He just lost to Tommy Ho (Rice University tennis head coach - not sure still now) in a 4.5 tournament. Tommy used to be a real prospect in pro level. a well know young player, very talented. can't make to the pro. i see him play at river oak couple of time.
People say all the time, i am 4.0, 4.5 but have to see they do it in the real tournament to know what you should get, to get to that level.
you just walk home and shake your head once you see them play

 

[supineAnimation]

I think the foward weight shift initiates the legs and then hips...correct?

Well, you push up and forward with your legs, similar to a baseball swing.