How to handle low tension string?

[Power Player]

user692, I am currently trying out Solinco Tourbite...it is awesome. highly reccomend it.

Your racquet (i owned 2) is a little tougher to use at low tensions. I think 52#s is probably where you want to try it out at.

gahaha.you are welcome to come to orlando and hit with me and then tell me about my technique. Until that happens, why dont you try poly out at low tensions instead of whining like a child about losing patience and calling me ignorant. You are arguing about things you have no real world experience doing, and then you are getting mad about it. Pretty pathetic and ironic.

Go to the low tensions thread here for your first lesson. Then come back and tell me everyone in there is an idiot, and you somehow have it all figured out.

 

[gahaha]

Polyester - a very durable string designed for string breakers-not much power or feel. Polyester strings became very popular with ATP players, because it provides added durability, doesn't move and "deadens" the stringbed. While this isn't a desireable feature for most recreational players, it is for many of todays ATP and (some) WTA players. They're bigger, stronger, swing faster and use more powerful racquets than players from the past. Often used in hybrids, combining polyester mains with softer synthetic or natural gut mains. This offers the durability benefits of polyester, while reducing the stiff, dead feel. Also easier to string than 100% polyester. Not recommended for beginning players or players with arm injuries.

This is on the same tennis string guide I posted earlier, why would they include poly strings and not a guide for it??? http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/String/StringReference.html

You need to learn how to read posts thoroughly, at least I read your link before making any comments.

 

[gahaha]

user692, I am currently trying out Solinco Tourbite...it is awesome. highly reccomend it.

Your racquet (i owned 2) is a little tougher to use at low tensions. I think 52#s is probably where you want to try it out at.

gahaha.you are welcome to come to orlando and hit with me and then tell me about my technique. Until that happens, why dont you try poly out at low tensions instead of whining like a child about losing patience and calling me ignorant. You are arguing about things you have no real world experience doing, and then you are getting mad about it. Pretty pathetic and ironic.

Go to the low tensions thread here for your first lesson. Then come back and tell me everyone in there is an idiot, and you somehow have it all figured out.

You're welcome to fly to Columbus Ohio (I'll personally pay for your fee if you win) and we'll have a match, don't be ridiculous, your point is horribly dis-proven. I play great with synthetic, and have no problem with stringing costs. What's your response now that the guide I posted actually included poly strings?

 

[Power Player]

Once again, you have not addressed the point at all. I'd love to have a match with you, but I don't want you to get too upset and smash your racquets. You seem to get angry real easily, and I like to dance around the court like Rafa before the first serve. It may boil your blood.

 

[gahaha]

Once again, you have not addressed the point at all. I'd love to have a match with you, but I don't want you to get too upset and smash your racquets. You seem to get angry real easily, and I like to dance around the court like Rafa before the first serve. It may boil your blood.

You challenge me and then back off? How pathetic, I don't play with poly, but I don't have to, to know that higher tension, poly or not will produce more spin. Now we know you are nothing but a troll, time to report.

 

[Power Player]

You challenge me and then back off? How pathetic, I don't play with poly, but I don't have to, to know that higher tension, poly or not will produce more spin.

Thank you. Point proven. This guy is young and inexperienced with anger issues. How dare I not fly to Columbus (lol..Ohio) to play such a gentleman.

Also can't seem to figure out what racquet to use. You would think with all his research and infinite wisdom, he would know more than what he says in this thread right here :

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5621138&postcount=1

 

[gahaha]

Thank you. Point proven. This guy is young and inexperienced with anger issues. How dare I not fly to Columbus (lol..Ohio) to play such a gentleman.

Also can't seem to figure out what racquet to use. You would think with all his research and infinite wisdom, he would know more than what he says in this thread right here :

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5621138&postcount=1

I wanted suggestions of which racquet to buy, I already stated I was looking for a good HL racquet. I want to have good information before spending $200 on a racquet. I make decent income, but I'd rather not waste money.

I also know a lot about cars, but when I went out to spend 30,000 on a car I asked around a lot for other people who have driven that same car, their experience and what it was like some time after purchase.

 

[Power Player]

I don't understand..you used all this research to "educate" us (who have used polys for years), yet you can't use the TW racquet finder?

Pretty shocking stuff.

I think About.com has an article about that as well.

 

[ProgressoR]

^^^ per a study in UK. lolol

here is per a study by dozu - spin boils down to simple physics... how much brush is transferred from the strings to the ball.

lower tension = longer dwell time = more 'brushing' the strings can give to the ball.

well lets inject some science and facts into this discussion, the paper is here, you can download it


http://www.springerlink.com/content/a641m11k8w343244/


here is a discussion on the paper: read post 17, here is a brief quote though the basis he was checking it seems is players claiming they get more spin with higher tension, to paraphrase IIRC he said that as the power is less with higher tension, to acheive the depth they are used to with lower tension, players increase racket head speed and this does give more spin, but its a different shot, the same shot gives the same spin regardless of tension:

Fortunately, the spin generated for a typical ball/racket impact can easily be measured. The lab testing at Sheffield University showed that the spin on the ball is not dependent on string tension, string type or pattern.

This flies in the face of what we all believed for many years, so you may need to stop now and have a coffee before reading on!

In that lab testing it was concluded that all stringbeds are sufficiently "rough" to achieve maximum spin for the given shot. Therefore, even if thin, textured and tight strings were used in an attempt to increase stringbed "roughness," there would be no actual increase in rebound spin.

However, the fact remains that players feel that they can achieve more spin with high-tension strings. Three possibilities arise:
(1) the players are simply incorrect;
(2) players feel a difference in some other impact related event like more or less dwell time, string movement, or ball travel across the stringbed and incorrectly interpret that as more spin;
(3) the player, not the racket, does something differently when playing with higher tension strings that, indeed, produces more spin.

 

[gahaha]

I don't understand..you used all this research to "educate" us (who have used polys for years), yet you can't use the TW racquet finder?

Pretty shocking stuff.

I think About.com has an article about that as well.

I don't feel like blowing $200 on a racquet to find out my older one worked better, a racquet can play differently even if it matches the same specifications as your older one.

 

[Power Player]

Ill be honest, I can probably help you out with that one. If I think of a good stick, I will chime in on the thread.

And..buy used if possible.

 

[gahaha]

well lets inject some science and facts into this discussion, the paper is here, you can download it


http://www.springerlink.com/content/a641m11k8w343244/


here is a discussion on the paper: read post 17, here is a brief quote though the basis he was checking it seems is players claiming they get more spin with higher tension, to paraphrase IIRC he said that as the power is less with higher tension, to acheive the depth they are used to with lower tension, players increase racket head speed and this does give more spin, but its a different shot, the same shot gives the same spin regardless of tension:

Fortunately, the spin generated for a typical ball/racket impact can easily be measured. The lab testing at Sheffield University showed that the spin on the ball is not dependent on string tension, string type or pattern.

This flies in the face of what we all believed for many years, so you may need to stop now and have a coffee before reading on!

In that lab testing it was concluded that all stringbeds are sufficiently "rough" to achieve maximum spin for the given shot. Therefore, even if thin, textured and tight strings were used in an attempt to increase stringbed "roughness," there would be no actual increase in rebound spin.

However, the fact remains that players feel that they can achieve more spin with high-tension strings. Three possibilities arise:
(1) the players are simply incorrect;
(2) players feel a difference in some other impact related event like more or less dwell time, string movement, or ball travel across the stringbed and incorrectly interpret that as more spin;
(3) the player, not the racket, does something differently when playing with higher tension strings that, indeed, produces more spin.

I agree with the bolded part.

 

[Power Player]

(3) the player, not the racket, does something differently when playing with higher tension strings that, indeed, produces more spin.

The same could be said for lower tensions as well.

 

[gahaha]

(3) the player, not the racket, does something differently when playing with higher tension strings that, indeed, produces more spin.

The same could be said for lower tensions as well.

I'm going to drop the topic, and we'll just leave it at that..

 

[ProgressoR]

dup post ......

 

[ProgressoR]

(3) the player, not the racket, does something differently when playing with higher tension strings that, indeed, produces more spin.

The same could be said for lower tensions as well.

ya, so the study (I have no reason to think it is inaccurate) is saying that type of string, tension or open/closed does not affect spin at all if the SAME shot is played, however we react differently to these factors and hit different kinds of shots and the effect is we feel more control, spin etc

i think its interesting, also it seems- on the face of it - to go against players who say i get more spin with X string, or tension, it would appear we hit differently to get different results.

I hit this week with 55 as opposed to my normal 50 and it was mostly very similar, but in the end i just miss the comfort with 50, i didnt notice more control with 55, in fact a bit less maybe, probably because I am a hacker, and for spin, i think because i was more comfortable with 50 and could hit out more with it, i probably got the same or more spin with 50 than 55, not due to the string but because it just feels better so i have more confidence to go for my shots.

 

[dozu]

forget about studies... most of them are garbage in garbage out... and I am saying this as a PhD who's seen many studies and done my share of them.

professionals are so picky about strings and tensions... because they make a difference, which their livelihood depends on.

even for an amateur like myself, I can see the difference in trajectory, between a flex 58 frame and a flex 64 frame.... as well as a full poly job, vs some slippery string like alphagut.

seeing is believing.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Someone told me the Luxilon is hard on the arm and I should try lower tension for injury prevention. I got my racquet Babolat Z lite strung with Luxilon alu power at 50lb, 3lb less than my normal string. I Played twice and feel the ball not bouncing and going long often.

How do I handle the low tension string: groundstroke, volley or serve? I want to try more to see if low tension is not really for me or it just takes time to get used to it. I need to make a decision if I should switch back to 53lb by next Wednesday when league starts.

Crystal_clear, I think we probably have similar games, so let me tell you what I am doing and why.

At first, I was using Wilson whatever. Just some crap string.

Pro convinced me to try Luxilon Big Banger. I noticed a positive difference immediately. But I was also stringing a lot because I could feel the strings go dead.

Pro suggested I could string less if I tried gut. He also thought I would love the feel. First I would try a gut hybrid to save a bit of money (I have two rackets), and then maybe consider a full gut job. 58 pounds. Babolat verses on the mains, Kirschbaum ProLine II on the crosses.

I have been very satisfied with this set-up ever since. People who borrow my rackets say they can really feel the benefits of gut.

I may drop my tension a few pounds when I next string, down to 55. Dropping tension seems to be all the rage around here, so I am skeptical about how much difference it will make.

See, I love spin. I want as much spin as I can get. I hear that lower tension will give me more spin, but I have also heard that it will sacrifice control. If I have more spin, wouldn't I also have more control? I dunno, I guess we will see. When I win points, it is from hitting the great angles and tricky balls that extra spin can provide. If lower tension changes that, then I will go back up.

So. My suggestion might be to forget about tension for a while and consider a gut hybrid. If you like it, then experiment with tension.

Hope that helps. I just figured it might be good for me to pipe up since we females are outnumbered around here!

 

[ProgressoR]

forget about studies... most of them are garbage in garbage out... and I am saying this as a PhD who's seen many studies and done my share of them.

professionals are so picky about strings and tensions... because they make a difference, which their livelihood depends on.

even for an amateur like myself, I can see the difference in trajectory, between a flex 58 frame and a flex 64 frame.... as well as a full poly job, vs some slippery string like alphagut.

seeing is believing.

Yes lets forget all research and science shall we

btw that study takes into account what players feel but players analysis of the causes are askew, and attributed to the wrong things, btw if you are going to debunk a paper stick to its scope, some of what you are saying is not in the scope and i bet you havent even read it, nor have i but i am not debunking it without reading it

 

[dozu]

Yes lets forget all research and science shall we

btw that study takes into account what players feel but players analysis of the causes are askew, and attributed to the wrong things, btw if you are going to debunk a paper stick to its scope, some of what you are saying is not in the scope and i bet you havent even read it, nor have i but i am not debunking it without reading it

I am not anti-science.

the reason I 'debunk it', is because garbage like 'string and tension does not make a difference' can be smelled from a mile away.... I'd rather trust my real experience from 20 years of playing tennis, and 35 years playing racket sports in general, than trusting some research done by some kid who can't tell the difference between a tennis racket and a fish net.

 

[ProgressoR]

dozu I think perhaps what you think they are saying is not what they are saying - what exactly do you think they are saying?

 

[dozu]

dozu I think perhaps what you think they are saying is not what they are saying - what exactly do you think they are saying?

without reading the whole thing, I can only take it at face value in the extract, which says spin aint got nothing to do with string and tension.

now - the real content maybe quite different... they might have done some experiment that does not mimic a tennis stroke at all.. who knows... but in this case, their conclusion would not apply to tennis anyways.

 

[ProgressoR]

they say something like a contact between the strings and ball creates the same spin regardless of tension and pattern (and maybe type of string too i dunno) if the contact is exactly the same.

of course the power and control varies and they study that in detail, but not the spin. So to land it in the same place with higher tension strings, you need to change your stroke as the power is less, so you can hit it harder, which would create more spin etc and that contributes to why it feels like you get more spin at different tensions

blah blah blah

thought it was interesting, i dont have much experience on this being a 1 year hack i think finding a tension i like best for feel and comfort works for me and then i work at tweaking the stroke to get the best out of it

 

[ProgressoR]

actually the conclusion i found is here:

CONCLUSION
Changing racket tension does not affect spin, but it does affect string movement, ball dwell time/contact distance. They can all affect the ball trajectory (fact) as well as the player's feel of the impact. This player perception is very important as if something feels good, then it will probably end up good, regardless of scientific reasoning!
The main advice is that high string tensions make your shot more consistent and make it easier to hit topspin shots.

 

[LeeD]

We should agree heavy string shifting is NOT good for topspin shots?
Strings that don't shift allow the racket to be swung fast enough to get tons of topspin? Yes?
If you can't/don't swing fast enough to shift the strings, you can lower tension without adverse effects, once you get used to the extra power.
If you tend to swing really fast and use a big hoop, you cannot hit with loose tensions. You need tight tensions to keep the strings from shifting.
Nadal and Fed both use lower tension. But both only use new string jobs, and one uses a small headed racket.

 

[crystal_clear]

Thanks everyone for your input. There are many good discussions here.

It is good to get education about the string as I never pay attention to the string tension before. I found the article posted by gahaha explains well about low tension, power, spin...

http://tennis.about.com/od/racquetsballsstringing/a/stringtension.htm

 

[crystal_clear]

Crystal_clear, I think we probably have similar games, so let me tell you what I am doing and why.

At first, I was using Wilson whatever. Just some crap string.

Pro convinced me to try Luxilon Big Banger. I noticed a positive difference immediately. But I was also stringing a lot because I could feel the strings go dead.

Pro suggested I could string less if I tried gut. He also thought I would love the feel. First I would try a gut hybrid to save a bit of money (I have two rackets), and then maybe consider a full gut job. 58 pounds. Babolat verses on the mains, Kirschbaum ProLine II on the crosses.

I have been very satisfied with this set-up ever since. People who borrow my rackets say they can really feel the benefits of gut.

I may drop my tension a few pounds when I next string, down to 55. Dropping tension seems to be all the rage around here, so I am skeptical about how much difference it will make.

See, I love spin. I want as much spin as I can get. I hear that lower tension will give me more spin, but I have also heard that it will sacrifice control. If I have more spin, wouldn't I also have more control? I dunno, I guess we will see. When I win points, it is from hitting the great angles and tricky balls that extra spin can provide. If lower tension changes that, then I will go back up.

So. My suggestion might be to forget about tension for a while and consider a gut hybrid. If you like it, then experiment with tension.

Hope that helps. I just figured it might be good for me to pipe up since we females are outnumbered around here!

Thanks Cindy for your support.

I might try your string pattern later " Babolat verses on the mains, Kirschbaum ProLine II on the crosses.". I think Ｉwill like it because every time I try a new string I like it.

 

[dozu]

I might try your string pattern later " Babolat verses on the mains, Kirschbaum ProLine II on the crosses.". I think Ｉwill like it because every time I try a new string I like it.

a couple of comments -

Bab VS is the best gut... great choice if cost is no issue... Bab guts tend to have very long break-in period.. for me the break-in period can be 2-4 hours... so for the ladies it might be even longer....after broken in, it performs wonderfully to when it breaks... should last for about 30 hours for crystal.

Kirschbaum Proline II -

I had limited experience (about 4 hours) with it.. first 2 hours was really wonderful, great feel, ball pocketing etc... last 2 hours was horrible, it was dead... but you might not feel the 'deadness' in a cross.

Can probably try OG Sheep Micro in the cross, should have better overall performance during the 30 hours that the VS can perform.

 

[Cindysphinx]

a couple of comments -

Bab VS is the best gut... great choice if cost is no issue... Bab guts tend to have very long break-in period.. for me the break-in period can be 2-4 hours... so for the ladies it might be even longer....after broken in, it performs wonderfully to when it breaks... should last for about 30 hours for crystal.

Kirschbaum Proline II -

I had limited experience (about 4 hours) with it.. first 2 hours was really wonderful, great feel, ball pocketing etc... last 2 hours was horrible, it was dead... but you might not feel the 'deadness' in a cross.

Can probably try OG Sheep Micro in the cross, should have better overall performance during the 30 hours that the VS can perform.

I haven't noticed any break-in period when I re-string. The rackets feel fine to me from beginning to end. I never string both rackets at the same time, so I would think I would notice a difference, but I do not.

Regarding Kirschbaum, I'm not wedded to it. I just happen to have bought some on someone's recommendation. I figure since I am only using it on the crosses that I probably shouldn't worry my pretty little head about it too much.

One thought for Crystal Clear (and the experts around here should correct me if I'm wrong). Doesn't it make more sense to figure out what string set-up you prefer before you start experimenting with tensions? In other words, if you are using Luxilon now and keep dropping your tension slowly to find out what works and then you switch to a gut/poly hybrid, wouldn't you have to start tinkering with tension all over again?

[edit: I will warn against using Spiky Shark in the crosses. It is a string that has edges to it. It chewed up my gut much more quickly than Pro-Line did. I gave the Spiky Shark away -- gut is too expensive to get it chewed up for nothing.]

 

[crystal_clear]

I guess I won't try a new string til a few months later. I have 2 racquets at 53lbs & 50lbs. My question is how to play with the 50lbs compared to the 53lbs?

 

[dozu]

I guess I won't try a new string til a few months later. I have 2 racquets at 53lbs & 50lbs. My question is how to play with the 50lbs compared to the 53lbs?

were the 2 rackets done by the same stringer?

polys usually play pretty much the same from high 30s to the high 50s.... the one with the 50lbs, if it produces fly balls, sounds like the strings are dead.

 

[Djokolate]

Way more spin, hit with the least power you can whilst keeping your normal swing the same so you feel like you are not trying to play way differently.

 

[jswinf]

I think Ｉwill like it because every time I try a new string I like it.

So are we all constantly in search of the Holy Grail that will unleash the wonderful tennis player we know lurks inside us.

Of course some posters don't seem to like any new strings..."I hit with it for 10 minutes and then cut it out..."--not very cost-effective.

 

[crystal_clear]

I decided to switch back to my normal tension 53lbs after I lost again. I think I might need more time to practice with the new low tension or my skill level not good enough to handle the low tension for now. I run out of time as my league will start this Wed.

 

[crystal_clear]

There's not really much you can do except try adjust for a less flat swing. I hate low tension, it was fine when I was young because I was too weak to drive one hand back hand deep, but now I only play with 59 or above.

High tension is the way to go! How I see it is that you can always add more power if you string tight, but you cannot add more control and spin to low tension (from strings not skill lol). But higher tension is really not forgiving on mishits so its up to you lol.

I feel much more "in control" when I played with my old racket at 53lbs after playing with 50lbs for 1 1/2 weeks.

 

[user92626]

I decided to switch back to my normal tension 53lbs after I lost again. I think I might need more time to practice with the new low tension or my skill level not good enough to handle the low tension for now. I run out of time as my league will start this Wed.

You have a headcase!

So, how long are you going to keep this 53lbs before you cut it out and replace it?

 

[gahaha]

I feel much more "in control" when I played with my old racket at 53lbs after playing with 50lbs for 1 1/2 weeks.

Keep moving on up lol, when I was 10 I played with 50 or so tension, I was really weak and couldn't drive many balls deep especially on one hand back hands, eventually I moved up to 52, then 53...and now 59-60 depending on strings (I play purely with synthetic, and am ok with constant restringings).

Don't go too high though, i.e. jump from 53 to 58, it'll hurt your arm, wrist, and cause injuries, if you jump tensions up it by 1 or 2 each time.

 

[dozu]

crystal - I bet $5 that it's not the string tension.

polys perform pretty much the same from low 30s to low 50s... can't believe 3lbs can make such a big difference.

if you had 2 string jobs at 53 and 50 on the same frame, you may have a case there... but 2 different frames? have you checked the weights, swing weights and balance points?

 

[rst]

but for me and other guys, we get more spin and dwell time from lower tensions............

does that spin come at the cost of more balls hit long??

 

[LeeD]

My Dunlop200's are strung at 54.
Aero500's at 52.
Bio3t's at 50.
All too tight for my swing and strokes, just a little.
When I was playing in A/Open tournaments, I strung around 58. My best tennis bud, a No2 for CCSF and then No.1 for SanFranciscoState, told me he used 48, and suggested I try it. I didn't, decided to try motocross instead.
Low tensions, like what Fed and Nadal use, need a full swing and a full followthru on each and every single ball. There is no flat bunting, and every ball needs to be hit with a committed spin.