How to increase my serve from 110 to 125 in 4 months

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paulmaben

Rookie
I just clocked my serve using a juggs gun and it was 110mph. My best ever was 113mph when I was playing open tourneys in So. Cal. I'm getting back into the game now and ready to start competing in the 40's this summer. Is it possible to add 15mph to a serve in a short amount of time?
Let us assume my technique is pretty rock solid but I am just lacking in the muscle/speed/flexibility department. What exercises would you recommend?
Am I dreaming to think I can add mph at my advanced age?
I would upload a video but my player just died!
I saw a guy from Hawaii who has this speed chain device that is almost guaranteed to increase your serve speed, but this seems a little hokey.

Paul
 
It is impossible to help without seeing you serve.

You are looking to add 10-15% which is certainly doable, but exercise and strength training are not gonna get it done.

If your technique was rock solid, you would have to be a special kind of stiff/weak to not be able to surpass 110.

If you are not going to post a video, then at least post your current physical condition, and what you are doing training wise, with your serve and in the gym.

Otherwise I mean you played open in socal and are 40 something years old, what am I going to tell you that you have not already heard 4,000 times.

J
 
I've been out of the game for a bit. I was hoping that there was a good set of conditioning exercises that I could take to the gym with me and do 2-3 x per week. I currently do the basics. Bench, lat pull down, triceps, biceps. Some core work. Nothing fancy.

Paul
 
Things that help me greatly are the core stuff, leg stuff especially quads, shoulder stabilizations, and tricep stuff.

For the serve of course.

And make sure you work in your cuff exercises with the resistance bands.

The split squats and such are huge because it allows you to keep that even balance and feel stable when you push your hips far out into the court over the baseline, and once you get that big hip snap working, it is so much easier to bring the ball down into the box with authority.

J
 
Work on your technique. I'm a bit of a weakling, and did no fitness training before January of this year, yet had no problem* serving that hard (Read: I could do it, but long tournaments made my arm sore, and over the summer I pulled or tore a muscle in my abdominal region when serving). You definitely need to post a video so people can help pinpoint areas that could improve your power.
 
Practice makes perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect too. :) So, video tape your swing, and compare it to the pro who swings like you, or close. If you emulate Sampras, then watch film of Sampras and film of yourself. Tear your stroke apart analytically.

If you are very short, say under 5'10", or so, I'd say getting to 125 is going to be hard. If you are very overweight, then your goal will likewise be difficult. If you have any muscle, bone, or tendon issues, then you are limited.

If you can't get film of yourself, then hire a top local pro to work with you for a few hours. He may see your limiters and help you reach your goal.

Frankly, I think serving a flat, hard serve up the T is doable at 40 for a lot of guys, provided they are very fit and strong. 125 is a high goal. I would think being able to hit 110-115, well placed, would be a more meaningful goal.


-Robert
 
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Obviously you must have a pretty good technique on the serve since you play in men's open..

I guess you can beef it up with the obvious. Working on your shoulder muscle - rotator cuff, deltoid and any other muscle around it. Also working on your shoulder flexibility. I would also think strengthening leg muscle and trunk muscle would work as well.

Adding 10 mph is a great stride of improvement in serve. So i don't think it will be an easy task...

Not so sure about hitting 120s in people in 40s. I just remember when Roddick first debuted (~2001), Patrick McEnroe was commentating with Cliff D. Cliff D asked him something about his serve speed, and Pat McEnroe said he would be lucky to get 118. I don't know how old he was at the time. Maybe it can give you some sort of guideline..
 
I've been out of the game for a bit. I was hoping that there was a good set of conditioning exercises that I could take to the gym with me and do 2-3 x per week. I currently do the basics. Bench, lat pull down, triceps, biceps. Some core work. Nothing fancy.

Paul
 
Not sure if weight lifting will really help. Some of the biggest servers I've seen are the skinniest, weakest guys. What they have is good technique, shoulder flexibility, and a fast arm. Likewise, I doubt that pitchers in baseball try to throw harder by lifting tons of weights.

Like people said, keep refining your technique, a smoother and more complete kinetic chain, with, most likely, emphasis put on more of a deep bend, moving your weight forward during and right after the toss, and more of a shoulder turn.

Basically, the focus should NOT be on power, because if it is, 99% of people will start simply swinging harder. For sustainable, consistent power, it all has to come from technique. And having said that, like Jolly said, we can't get more specific unless you post videos.
 
As they say, we can't be sure, but I'd bet if your technique is a solid as you say, that I can guess what you need to do.

Important observation discussed on another thread.

1.You need to be able to have elbow at racket drop (back scratch) bent to an angle greater 90 degrees (from a straight arm) or measuring the other way (from upper arm to forearm), the angle needs to be 60-80 degrees.
Most good, but not great servers don't get enough bend in the elbow at full racket drop.

2. Using good leg drive, Maintain that larger bend longer as the elbow rises up aligning the arm to strike the ball. This stores energy that will be released at proper time in the kinetic chain.
Most good, but not great servers start to extend the elbow joint earlier in the upward motion, diminishing the the upward speed of the forearm generated at impact.

The simple explanation is that this technique puts the racket in a position to have to travel about 15% farther, in about 5-10% less time, resulting in the greater racket head speed observed in the worlds top speed servers.

this is a difference maker, not a how to on all the elements of serving with leg drive, pronation, trunk rotation, etc.... so your serve must be as solid as you say to exploit this fully.

one server just went from 123 to 136 with this adjustment last week.
write back if this helps or any questions
 
You could look into the speedchain training device, even if you think it is hokey. They claim to often get equivalent speed gains from players using the device without improving their form in just a few months.

I think the speedchain works because it encourages people to train in an explosive manner. The only other sort of drills I can think of would give gains in that period of time also involve explosive movement, such as throwing a medicine ball and throwing spirals with a weighted football.
 
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I know of a good way to increase shoulder flexibility with a bath towel. I saw it in a video meant to increase one's flexibility for fighting and the exercise is meant to increase range of motion for the shoulder to aid in performing and escaping submissions in Brazilian jiu jitsu, although I found it useful in keeping the shoulder loose for serves. It is also used by swimmers to help them with the butterfly stroke. Its really simple and I can explain it if you are interested.
 
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Take a standard size bath towel rolled up, or a pvc pipe or rod that is about 4 feet long. Grab each end of the towel or rod (Palms facing backward) each hand should be 6 or 7 inches wider than shoulder width apart when you start. Keeping your elbows completely STRAIGHT, raise your arms above your head and keep going until the towel or pole reaches the back of your thighs, your palms should be facing forward now and your elbows should remain LOCKED the entire time. Go from this position back over your head to your original position, this is one rep. Do about 15-20 reps 2 or 3 times a day. I guarantee you will be feeling it after the first few reps.

The goal is to keep doing these exercises until your shoulder loosens up and you can start moving your hands closer together. Eventually you should be able to have your hands about 2-3 inches away from shoulder width.

http://www.cougaraquatic.com/Shoulders.pdf

That site has a picture illustrating the technique, except the woman shown does not extend her arms all the way to her thighs.
 
I don't think the flexibility issue can be stressed enough. Unless you are able to get a deep racquet drop with some added supination, you're not going to be able to whip your racquet around fast enough to reach 125.

The kinetic chain also cannot be overstressed. Most of my best and fastest serves have happened when I wasn't really even TRYING to hit hard. I was just focusing on keeping my body "loose" and focused on spanking the ball rather than swinging my racquet, if that makes any sense. Just sort of let the racquet do the work. Once you try to force your body to do things that it doesn't have memorized, you start overcompensating and making matters worse. It's really all about muscle memory. You can't consciously make your muscles move fast enough, if that makes any sense. Your body has to "know" what to do without thinking. In that vein, there is no substitute for practice.
 
No offense, but at 40, shouldn't you be worrying about *slowing down* your serve effectively so that you can maintain a dominant serve but minimize the risks associated with that sort of wear and tear at your age?

My Dad does the same thing as you and it gets me a bit worried that he's trying to play powerful college style tennis rather than utilizing tools like consistency, placement, touch, and strategy that are less stressful...

I might be a bit biased here ;)
 
Good news. My video camera seems to be working. I'll head out to the court for a shoot tomorrow. Getting the video onto the computer may take awhile. I seem to be missing the cord that goes from the camera to the PC.

thanks for the flexibility exercise.


As for being 40 and trying to not do to much wear and tear on the shoulder...well I'll play it by ear and see how I feel.
I serve mainly for placement and have a good kicker but it would be nice to be able to bring the heat a few times per set to throw in some change ups. When I'm hitting full out it doesn't really feel like I'm doing anyting or straining, so I don't think it is really dangerous to try for more.
 
TonyB said:
I don't think the flexibility issue can be stressed enough. Unless you are able to get a deep racquet drop with some added supination, you're not going to be able to whip your racquet around fast enough to reach 125.

The kinetic chain also cannot be overstressed. Most of my best and fastest serves have happened when I wasn't really even TRYING to hit hard. I was just focusing on keeping my body "loose" and focused on spanking the ball rather than swinging my racquet, if that makes any sense. Just sort of let the racquet do the work. Once you try to force your body to do things that it doesn't have memorized, you start overcompensating and making matters worse. It's really all about muscle memory. You can't consciously make your muscles move fast enough, if that makes any sense. Your body has to "know" what to do without thinking. In that vein, there is no substitute for practice.
Click to expand...

This has been my personal experience and has been be reinforced by everything I have seen. If you can add an inch of drop, you can get miles on your serve. Thus, work on yoga to improve your core and to increase your flexibility. At the same time, when I have lifted weights, although my game has improved as I got stronger, my serve did not.

If you want to pay some good coin, a SOMA trained massage can supposedly improve you flexibility by breaking up scar tissue, but I have no experience in that.
 
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paulmaben said:
I just clocked my serve using a juggs gun and it was 110mph. My best ever was 113mph when I was playing open tourneys in So. Cal. I'm getting back into the game now and ready to start competing in the 40's this summer. Is it possible to add 15mph to a serve in a short amount of time?
Let us assume my technique is pretty rock solid but I am just lacking in the muscle/speed/flexibility department. What exercises would you recommend?
Am I dreaming to think I can add mph at my advanced age?
I would upload a video but my player just died!
I saw a guy from Hawaii who has this speed chain device that is almost guaranteed to increase your serve speed, but this seems a little hokey.

Paul
Click to expand...

I think the main thing is to increase your leg strength. true power on the serve comes from your legs. and maybe watch that video on Sonic serve by nick Bolletieri. and use Pinpoint stance perhaps.:)
 
Fedace said:
I think the main thing is to increase your leg strength. true power on the serve comes from your legs. and maybe watch that video on Sonic serve by nick Bolletieri. and use Pinpoint stance perhaps.:)
Click to expand...

A lot of people say this, but I don't think it is always the limiting factor for people. If you are going to serve over 120, the leg drive is very important, and ultimately all swings have some linkage with the ground, but it isn't the only thing going on. Roddick serves harder than about anyone, and I don't think he has the strongest legs on tour or the greatest vertical jump.

The leg drive, if done correctly, will help load the chest, shoulder, and arm muscles and get the height to hit at a better angle and the bodyweight behind the shot. The few times I've hit over 110mph felt effortless, and the timing of the leg drive was important. So, if you said that leg drive is crucial to hitting extremely hard I'd totally agree. I just don't agree that improving your leg strength and vertical jump alone will necessarily get you to hit over 120mph.
 
Wildvolley, Venus williams serves 122 - 129mph with very little leg drive.

I say toss the ball more in the court. (Of course there are diminishing returns after a certain point.)
 
WBF said:
No offense, but at 40, shouldn't you be worrying about *slowing down* your serve effectively so that you can maintain a dominant serve but minimize the risks associated with that sort of wear and tear at your age?

My Dad does the same thing as you and it gets me a bit worried that he's trying to play powerful college style tennis rather than utilizing tools like consistency, placement, touch, and strategy that are less stressful...

I might be a bit biased here ;)
Click to expand...

I'm 40 and agree with this. A more difficult serve to return is a high topsin kick serve. Fast serves simply require blocking the ball back. The topspin serve requires tracking the ball to the point it strikes the racquet. It's a much more difficult serve to return at the club level.
 
split-step said:
Wildvolley, Venus williams serves 122 - 129mph with very little leg drive.

I say toss the ball more in the court. (Of course there are diminishing returns after a certain point.)
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Some of the fastest servers don't have extraordinary upward leg drive.
 
With both feet on the baseline, and just using my arm with almost no upper body rotation, I can hit a serve about 85 mph. My maximum velocity on my radar gun (sitting on the other side of the net) is 97 mph, with a full service motion. So, I would opine that the biggest influences on serve speed are related to racquet drop and shoulder/elbow/wrist velocity. Legs might add a few mph, yes. Loading the hip extensors add a few mph. Strong other core muscles maybe 1-2 mph. Before you know it, you have a decent serve, IF you have a decent racquet drop. That's the major limiter for most older guys. Once you get into your 30's, flexibility starts dropping fast.

-Robert
 
the deep racket drop is very important, but don't forget the delayed extention of the elbow. If the elbow starts to open early it slows down the motion much like when a skater opens up and slows their spinning on ice. Agassi is a good example of this. On his bigger serves, he delays better, but when he slows it down, the elbow extension starts sooner, probably adding to his control.

Delaying the extention till the right moment keeps everything tight and fast, while lengthing the distance the racket must travel to contact the ball in a given time. This greater distance covered in slightly less time results in faster head speed. And yes, the leg drive is a large part of loading the racket drop against the elbow lift, but you won't get much from the leg drive if the racket drop is not right and nearly nothing if you don't delay the elbow extension.
 
Let me just say something about all this knee bending. The main benefit from the knee bend is not to add power directly from your legs. Rather, the main benefit is that by thrusting your body upwards during the racquet drop phase of the stroke, you effectively gain more racquet drop as your shoulder is "forced" to stretch backwards more. In other words, your racquet is "weighing down" your shoulder as you throw your body upwards. This is also why a "looser" arm creates more power. Ever notice that you can't get more power by tightening up your arm and trying to "muscle" the racquet around??

The only other gain might be the slight height advantage you get through jumping into the air, allowing you a greater downward angle to hit the ball. This also effectively allows you to hit the ball slightly LATER, meaning that your racquet head speed has had slightly more time to accelerate into the ball, providing more power.
 
ToneyB,
I agree with the idea of that first paragraph.
I'm not disagreeing the second one, but just think the idea of gaining an angle on the court is over rated by some.
 
When I added more knee bend, I used to notice more "kick" from my serves. It would bounce higher and seemed to have more action. But, these days, I don't really think about knee bend much..

When I learned about hip stretch and intentionally incorporated, I would notice more pop on the serve, not necessarily more kick..

I would think more hip stretch, shoulder turn, and trunk turn would be more benefinical to serve speed. Also, long body rackets would help.

I guess the key is how well you can coordinate all these coilings from shoulder, trunk, and legs into the ball...
 
junbumkim said:
I guess the key is how well you can coordinate all these coilings from shoulder, trunk, and legs into the ball...
Click to expand...


Bingo.

Practice makes perfect, unless you happened to be blessed with perfect service-motion-coordination, which most of us are not.
 
Bumkin,
one thing to remember here is the premise that his serve is pretty solid in fundamentals to start with and that he is serving in the 110 range already. We don't know these to be facts, but they are the premise of the question.

So we are looking for the difference maker. The thing that separates the very good server from the exceptional server in relation to velocity generated. Your comments are excellent in relation to important fundamentals of the serve, but really should be already accounted for by the premise.
 
WBF said:
No offense, but at 40, shouldn't you be worrying about *slowing down* your serve effectively so that you can maintain a dominant serve but minimize the risks associated with that sort of wear and tear at your age?
Click to expand...
I was kind of thinking the same thing. He should focus on developing a BETTER serve, not a faster one. Not saying the two are always mutually exclusive, but when I play much better people, it's not the pace of their serve that throws me off, it's their precision and rock solid reliability.

I think somebody here who had the experience to know said the single biggest difference between even an average pro and a really good amateur is the serve. They can hit so many more spots consistently. They don't just grip and rip, they place it based on their opponent's strengths, like it's the first move of a chess sequence, thinking a few shots ahead, setting up the winning shot.

Basically, if I were given a choice, I would take the second serve of a pro over the first. The flat bomb would be the last serve I would choose. Much rather have their kicker or spinny serve.
 
split-step said:
Wildvolley, Venus williams serves 122 - 129mph with very little leg drive.

I say toss the ball more in the court. (Of course there are diminishing returns after a certain point.)
Click to expand...

Yes, but the Williams sisters may be a bad example here. They can get away with some things due to their extreme athleticism.
 
5263 said:
Bumkin,
one thing to remember here is the premise that his serve is pretty solid in fundamentals to start with and that he is serving in the 110 range already. We don't know these to be facts, but they are the premise of the question.

So we are looking for the difference maker. The thing that separates the very good server from the exceptional server in relation to velocity generated. Your comments are excellent in relation to important fundamentals of the serve, but really should be already accounted for by the premise.
Click to expand...

When juniors move onto ATP tour, one of their focus is on beefing up their groundies and serves. They pay more attention to increasing their strength / flexibility and add more muscle mass to their body (not like body builders do obvously). Even Sampras said that he was having to remind himself to toss more out in front. ( I recall this from reading one of his interviews from early in his career). These juniors are probably as fundamentally sound as the op is if not better.

Fundamentally sound means that he has most (or all) of important elements of the technique. But it doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't things to be added or changed as you'd agree. Just little bit of tweak here and there.
And these tweakings are done in the fundamental elements of technique.

Perhaps he doesn't toss quite out in front. Maybe he doesn't have much trunk & shoulder turn. Maybe he's too focused on swinging faster rather than using the power from trunk and shoulder turn. Perhaps he concentrates too much on physical conditioning that he doesn't heed to the technique..
 
bumkin,
As previously stated, your fundamental based suggestions are excellent.
But I believe when the premise of the question (right or wrong) is quote

"Let us assume my technique is pretty rock solid"

we can be pretty sure that he is not asking for suggestions on fundamentals. He is clearly pointing us away from the basics like leg drive, shoulder turn, etc.... that are serving 101.
It seems he is saying, what else is out there for me to do "different" like stretching, and exercises, or special approaches to serving.

Of course it wouldn't be the first time someone didn't mean what they actually said would it, so maybe your suggestions are just what he is looking for. I actually used my response to you as chance for him to comment on the direction things were heading, based on what he is searching for. Maybe he will comment soon.
Regards,
 
Yes, I meant let's assume that my technique is pretty good...maybe not rock solid. What I'm basically asking is if I were to undergo a 3 day per week workout regimen of x or y exercises could I increase my speed significantly?
Is there anything new out there like the speed chain, special shoulder exercises,etc. I've gotten some great feedback so far. I already started doing some stretching exercises.
I have noticed that my racquet drop is not near where it could be. I video taped myself and it isn't near where Sampras is ;). I typically use the pinpoint stance and messed around with the platform stance. I hit 110 on the pinpoint and 109 with the platform.
 
Give my towel exercises a couple of weeks it really does wonders! I got an old serve video of me somewhere on here and I will post a new one soon to see the difference in racquet drop
 
Someone was asking what kind of shape I'm in. 5'10" 175lbs . "Nalbandianesque" torso. Haven't had any major injuries except a little golfers elbow that flares from time to time.
 
You are askin a lot out of a 5'10" frame. I mean, sure there is Ben Becker, but 125 is gonna give you a real narrow window to put those balls in.

I would certainly continue to investigate ways to beef up your serve, but put that extra oomph into spin, not speed.

Granted as a man you are obligated to startch one every now and again. But I think no more than 1/3 or 1/4.

Then again, I am offering unsolicited advice, so feel free to tell me to shove it.

J
 
Hmmm, I'm only 5' 6" tall. How fast would it be reasonable for me to serve as a maximum? I'd estimate that my current fastest serves are around 100-105, but that's it. I've been tinkering a bit with my motion in hopes for more speed, but maybe that's just not reasonable.

How fast does Olivier Rocchus serve? Or maybe a better comparison would be Justine Henin?


EDIT: Just looked it up on Wiki... it said Henin averaged 107 mph during a match against V. Williams. Not bad.
 
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