How to play against short returners

[atp2015]

lost to an opponent with short return groundstrokes. Most of the shots were low or slice returns bouncing well within the service box. Made too many errors returning short,slow balls. Tried serve and volley with moderate success but not enough to defend all service games. Return game was problematic and not fun at all without being able to play my favorite baseline deep ground strokes. It was always trying to return short,slow and low balls. Hats off to the opponent for being consistent with his strategy/style of play. What is the best way to play such players? It was hard to play without being able to play shots and engage in slow ball fest. I have not played many such players(who go against the wisdom of deep and cross court shots). Tips?

 

[Moveforwardalways]

To be Socratic here, what do you think would be the best way to counter an opponent who does this? Why do you think no one at high levels tries to hit short returns, but rather tries to hit deep returns?

 

[movdqa]

If the ball is coming more or less straight, that is it isn't going off to the sidelines, then fall into the court and be ready to move in to take the ball. If it's slow, floater and above the net, then move in with an abbreviated backswing and put it away if it's on your forehand side or deep to the corner if your backhand side (use a putaway backhand of you have the shot). You need to watch the ball, use excellent footwork and preparation on the slower ball. If it's lower, then it depends on your arsenal. You could always just chip the ball back deep to the corner off the forehand or backhand. You can mix it up with sharp slice angled shots or you could roll topspin angles if you have the shots.

I hit with a guy that often hits shorter balls in practice and I just focus on hitting it back pretty hard to him - I could put the shots away but that wouldn't make for very good hitting practice. He's also good at putting the ball in inconvenient places on the court.

 

[atp2015]

take the pace off, roll the ball into their backhand corner and follow it in

Certainly could not take the pace off the ball effectievely. Need to learn to enjoy taking the pace off the ball -It is harder than it sounds (for me at least). How do you practice? Most players like to hit hard than hit slow and low.

 

[movdqa]

Certainly could not take the pace off the ball effectievely. Need to learn to enjoy taking the pace off the ball -It is harder than it sounds (for me at least). How do you practice? Most players like to hit hard than hit slow and low.

Play against older folks. A lot of older folks slice more because it's less strenuous and takes less effort. I see some players that only use slice strokes and they can be pretty effective. You could also have someone feed you balls or use a ball machine but those are added expenses (in terms of friendship or money for ball machines).

 

[moonballs]

I have practice with guys exactly like you described. They realize they can't get an edge in baseline rallies so they take every chance to break the cross court pattern. You have to watch out for the signes. Usually a short back swing will give it out. This type of players are good practice for the full court game. You need the slice approach and drop shot.

 

[user92626]

In my world of singles, making short balls would get you "killed." The guys with 10+ years of experience know how to spin the ball fast into an open court which would be too much for you to run down.

It's not hard to learn this skill. Playing with a basket of ball by yourself is enough to develop it. You will have to trust your power and topspin.

 

[movdqa]

What world is this short returns can be pretty effective at most levels

I think that what he wrote is the opposite of what you think he wrote.

 

[RoddickAce]

There are many options, just be prepared mentally for the short return.

In the long run, it would pay off to practice taking the ball early to put away the short ball before it gets so low that it is hard to attack.

Serving and volleying is a good counter but if you have a weak net game, then that is exactly what your opponent wants you to do. He is attacking your weakness by forcing you to come in rushed, and hitting a poor volley as a result.

Instead, you could still charge the net but keep your options open for a groundstroke. Depending on his speed, and passing ability, you could dropshot him or hit a deep slice to the open court or to his weaker wing. You could also hold the shot and wait until he moves, then slice or roll the ball to opposite side to wrongfoot him. Mix these shots around and you will keep him on his toes and he will start missing later due to not knowing what to expect from you.

Don't forget that his return quality is partly controlled by your serve. Hit some bombs or kickers into his body and lets see how low he can place his short return. If you can use your serve to pressure his return, he will start floating the return too high, and you can crush it.

 

[movdqa]

user9 wrote that short balls would be a losing strategy to the person hitting the short balls.

You asked skeptically where short balls are effective.

 

[oble]

lost to an opponent with short return groundstrokes. Most of the shorts were low or slice returns bouncing well within the service line. Made too many errors returning short,slow balls. Tried serve and volley with moderate success but not enough to defend all service games. Return game was problematic without being to play my favorite baseline deep ground strokes. Playing was not fun without being able to hit the balls, always trying to return short,slow and low balls. Hats off to the opponent for being consistent with his strategie/style of play. what is the best way to play such players? It was hard to play without being able to play shots and engage in slow ball fest. I have not played many such players(who go against the wisdom of deep and cross court shots). Tips?

Not every tennis player is a baseliner slugging top spin groundstrokes, so unfortunately you just have to try and adapt. Obviously your opponent recognised that you are uncomfortable outside the baseline so he employed his strategy to draw you away from the baseline with success since you couldn't adapt.

You have to anticipate the short return early. Since you know he tends to return short and low, don't get into your normal habit of backing up behind the baseline right after serving. Serve, stay in no man's land to anticipate the short return, then get to the ball quick. Errors on low, short balls tend to occur when the player gets to the ball late or when the player tries to hit it too hard and over-hits. Once you get to the ball, use spin and placement to place it deep in one of the corners to draw an even weaker return that you can put away at the net, or play a drop shot occasionally to keep him guessing too.

 

[atp2015]

Don't forget that his return quality is partly controlled by your serve. Hit some bombs or kickers into his body and lets see how low he can place his short return. If you can use your serve to pressure his return, he will start floating the return too high, and you can crush it.

You raise a good point. An off day on serve, and it made the matter worse with short returns. The games were very close in terms of points, didn't really think too much or change the plan until late. A good lesson to respect the repeated short returns - make it an approach rather try to blast it like a usual groundy. Obviously it shows my matching playing experience (or the lack of it) against such players. How common are they in intermediate levels(4ish level) ? I have not seen too many of them..

 

[NLBwell]

lost to an opponent with short return groundstrokes. Most of the shorts were low or slice returns bouncing well within the service line. Made too many errors returning short,slow balls. Tried serve and volley with moderate success but not enough to defend all service games. Return game was problematic without being to play my favorite baseline deep ground strokes. Playing was not fun without being able to hit the balls, always trying to return short,slow and low balls. Hats off to the opponent for being consistent with his strategie/style of play. what is the best way to play such players? It was hard to play without being able to play shots and engage in slow ball fest. I have not played many such players(who go against the wisdom of deep and cross court shots). Tips?

You sound like Andy Roddick playing against Federer. The opponent found your weakness and kept going after it.

It's not hard to learn this skill. Playing with a basket of ball by yourself is enough to develop it. You will have to trust your power and topspin.

The above is very true. You can practice this just by dropping the ball in front of you and moving forward to it since the actual shot in the match has little pace. It is more difficult than it seems because you aren't in a comfortable position, have to provide at least some pace and place it well, and have little margin while hitting up over the net and putting it in front of the baseline. Practicing it enough, however, will eliminate it from being a problem and you will figure you will win the point when you see one coming.

 

[heninfan99]

Fed sometimes does a short slice return to a righties' backhand.

To be Socratic here, what do you think would be the best way to counter an opponent who does this? Why do you think no one at high levels tries to hit short returns, but rather tries to hit deep returns?

 

[mightyrick]

lost to an opponent with short return groundstrokes. Most of the shots were low or slice returns bouncing well within the service box. Made too many errors returning short,slow balls. Tried serve and volley with moderate success but not enough to defend all service games. Return game was problematic and not fun at all without being able to play my favorite baseline deep ground strokes. It was always trying to return short,slow and low balls. Hats off to the opponent for being consistent with his strategy/style of play. What is the best way to play such players? It was hard to play without being able to play shots and engage in slow ball fest. I have not played many such players(who go against the wisdom of deep and cross court shots). Tips?

It sounds like your opponent basically did a dink return, and when you flubbed it, he figured... "Why not? I'll just keep doing that." And it won a substantial number of points for your opponent. So good on him for finding one of your weaknesses and picking it apart. I would have done the same thing.

It sounds to me like there is one main problem. You need to work on your serve. If your opponent kept hitting dink return after dink return, then your serve is lacking and it isn't interesting enough. You need to work on your serve to get a little more pop. Make it a little more difficult to hit touch shots off of. Also, mix up your serves. Did you opponent hit dink returns off both wings in an equally effective manner? Secondly, you may need to start practicing defending against dropshots and/or short shots. You cannot put away these balls if they stay low. So don't try. You need to chip/slice these balls deep and then quickly prepare for the next shot.

But I'd start with the serve. It sounds like it has some issues.

 

[user92626]

What world is this short returns can be pretty effective at most levels

How many short returns (balls) do you see ATP pros make?

 

[atp2015]

It sounds like your opponent basically did a dink return, and when you flubbed it, he figured... "Why not? I'll just keep doing that." And it won a substantial number of points for your opponent. So good on him for finding one of your weaknesses and picking it apart. I would have done the same thing.

It sounds to me like there is one main problem. You need to work on your serve. If your opponent kept hitting dink return after dink return, then your serve is lacking and it isn't interesting enough. You need to work on your serve to get a little more pop. Make it a little more difficult to hit touch shots off of. Also, mix up your serves. Did you opponent hit dink returns off both wings in an equally effective manner? Secondly, you may need to start practicing defending against dropshots and/or short shots. You cannot put away these balls if they stay low. So don't try. You need to chip/slice these balls deep and then quickly prepare for the next shot.

But I'd start with the serve. It sounds like it has some issues.

You are right - thinking about what happened in the match - the serve went down hill. I started out well, and after seeing the blocked returns which barely crossed the net (they didn't appear to be mishits), I slowed down on the serve since anyway the opponent was not swinging on the returns. It just helped the opponent with much easier placement on returns. Realized it after the lost breakpoint (and could not break at 4-5 while receiving). I tried serve and volley in the second set, it became predictable. And probably it was an overreaction to short returns (I lost the first set just by a single unanswered break). should have tried more serve placement instead of going to backhand most of the time.

This is what will I do differently based on the inputs here (and my reading of what I did wrong) - the next opportunity could be months because these are rarity players.

1 keep up the serve speed and just mix it up by spin and placement.
2 get ready well inside the baseline for half-volley and pickup shots instead of rushing to the service line right away.
3 consider the first return as an approach shot and not a candidate for a winner.
4 tighten up my technique to play slow and low balls.

 

[Enga]

When someone has a shot that I'm not good at handling yet, my typical approach is to not let them hit that shot. For example, I bet they would strugggle to hit that shot if you could hit a higher kick serve, or serve into their forehand, which is typically the difficult side to hit a slice on.

Or, let him hit it, and wait for that one moment that he doesnt hit it perfectly. Then pounce on it, and put him under pressure.

 

[zaph]

I see this style of play all the time, and it is difficult for a low level baseline player counter. The problem is, it forces you to be decisive, a person who always hits deep gives you a lot of court to hit a defensive reply into.

You can't blast this ball, the best shot is the short angled ball. You have less depth to hit into, but you are miles up the court. Forget pace, go for the sidelines. If the ball is too difficult to achieve that, return the favour. I found one of the guys who short balled me to death loved being at the baseline, he hated being drawn up the court. He couldn't volley and he was a sitting duck at the net.

You also have the option of declining the short ball, slice it deep into his backhand, or put alot of topspin on it. Then head back to baseline.

 

[Lance L]

The short offensive shot is hard to handle, but the thing is a player can only do it if they are standing inside the baseline. If you are hitting deep grounds strokes, meaning they are behind the baseline, then that becomes a short defensive shot, or a floater, and you should be happy to see that. If you can't handle a short defensive ball you need to figure that out.
My point is, I don't think you are hitting as deep as you think you are.
Another point, against this player you really have to play on the baseline, you can't be two steps behind, it is just too much running.
This is all assuming that you are solid at net play. If the problem is that you get to the net and then are weak, that is something you need to fix to go up a level.

 

[GuyClinch]

Make sure after your serve you get into the court and split step well into the court. This will get you ready to move in and hit an approach. I think the normal play is a hop step approach.. If the ball is short and you are baseliner you should be able to finish off points with angled groundstrokes. Short balls give you really good angles..

 

[atp2015]

If you can't handle a short defensive ball you need to figure that out. .... If the problem is that you get to the net and then are weak, that is something you need to fix to go up a level.

Good advice - I think that's my problem. Technique/strategy problem to play short defensive ball - that's where I lose most points. It could be a combination of footwork, lack of speed, anticipation, lack of experience etc. I'm a good volleyer in doubles (but while playing singles, I'm not in a position to volley since I'm running to get to the ball from behind the baseline). Another thing I picked up in this thread is to treat it as an approach opportunity and not a point ender.

 

[atp2015]

Hewitt couldn't handle that shot at all

Hewitt (and many more for sure). Short slice is tough to handle - so then why not always do that your opponent? I think it's a tough shot to execute from behind the baseline. If someone can do that very often, I salute ! Didn't Vinci win against Serena in US OPEN by doing her drop shots? I think it's a very smart play for someone with a significantly weaker (compared to your opponent) ground strokes... Your strength against opponent's weakness.

 

[movdqa]

Hewitt (and many more for sure). Short slice is tough to handle - so then why not always do that your opponent? I think it's a tough shot to execute from behind the baseline. If someone can do that very often, I salute ! Didn't Vinci win against Serena in US OPEN by doing her drop shots? I think it's a very smart play for someone with a significantly weaker (compared to your opponent) ground strokes... Your strength against opponent's weakness.

Maybe it's a OHBH vs 2HBH thing. I have a OHBH and short balls to the backhand side don't bother me.

 

[Lance L]

Good advice - I think that's my problem. Technique/strategy problem to play short defensive ball - that's where I lose most points. It could be a combination of footwork, lack of speed, anticipation, lack of experience etc. I'm a good volleyer in doubles (but while playing singles, I'm not in a position to volley since I'm running to get to the ball from behind the baseline). Another thing I picked up in this thread is to treat it as an approach opportunity and not a point ender.

There is a sweet spot for all of us on where we should play in relation to the baseline. You need to be able to get to the dink ball, and the better your average groundstroke the more time you will have. I'm an old school player, so not the most powerful groundies, and that has meant I've needed to play on the baseline. As I've improved my groundies I've noticed I'm able to play about a half step to a step behind the baseline most of the time.
The strategy once you get a short ball is straightforward
-Hit as deep and hard and topspiny as you can straight ahead/down the middle.
-Get in close enough that you can angle your volley effectively
-Develop a good enough overhead that you can feel confident somewhat close to the net.
-Once you have established this you can work in dinks of your own in response to their dink.

 

[user92626]

Maybe it's a OHBH vs 2HBH thing. I have a OHBH and short balls to the backhand side don't bother me.

It's not a OHBH vs 2HBH thing I have a 2hbh and short ball doesn't bother me. The key for me is recognize and set up early. If I'm a little lazy I can always slice it back.

 

[mightyrick]

It's not a OHBH vs 2HBH thing I have a 2hbh and short ball doesn't bother me. The key for me is recognize and set up early. If I'm a little lazy I can always slice it back.

^ +1000

The general rule is that the more "interesting" the incoming ball, the earlier you must prepare in order to deal with it.

 

[meltphace 6]

Thank them for the short returns?

Where the hell am I?

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Key is to get it before it drops below the level of the net. If you can take it high, you have an easy put away. But, if it's a low ball, it's a much tougher shot to deal with. So anticipate, react quickly, and move move move. This game is 10% shots and 90% moving in between shots.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Serve aces?

Learn how to approach and volley?

 

[torpantennis]

Key is to get it before it drops below the level of the net. If you can take it high, you have an easy put away. But, if it's a low ball, it's a much tougher shot to deal with. So anticipate, react quickly, and move move move. This game is 10% shots and 90% moving in between shots.

Yes, and like 50% of that "moving in between shots" is actually good anticipation and reading of ball's flight! So less than 50% of the game is physical, so the game is mostly mental. And this is not even taking into account stuff like match pressure!

 

[willeric]

Thank them for the short returns?

Where the hell am I?

Yeah, say, "thank you, may I have another"?

 

[Deleted member 120290]

"How to play against short returners"

I usually just hit a massive kick serve over their heads.

 

[oble]

"How to play against short returners"

I usually just hit a massive kick serve over their heads.

That's just mean..

 

[atp2015]

Thank them for the short returns?

It's not the weak reply (opponent stretched or on the run) - just a short reply in a neutral baseline rally.

 

[atp2015]

Yeah, say, "thank you, may I have another"?

For sure, it's way better than an outright winner or a line kisser.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Was the short return game, a "strategy" or just your opponents tendency after returning your serve (I, like most of us, spend most of our time practice from the baseline with the goal of earning a short ball!)? Did they demonstrate the ability to return deep?

Presuming they were intentionally keep it low and short, In general, like everyone said, learn to:
* take balls on the rise # try practice baseline rallys with 2 feet inside the baseline
* handle low balls in the short court (abbreviated backswing, more topspin, etc...) # do more mini tennis (with topspin only!)
* learn to hit an approach shot to 4 corners of the court # force yourself to take every short ball as an approach (vs. running back to the safety of the baseline)
* learn to s&v # force yourself to s&v against people you normally beat

My guess (from my own progressions) is that you like to practice your groundstrokes only from the baseline (not too far from the center hash mark),.. and are possibly guilty of letting the ball bounce twice in practice.

 

[atp2015]

Was the short return game, a "strategy" or just your opponents tendency after returning your serve (I, like most of us, spend most of our time practice from the baseline with the goal of earning a short ball!)? Did they demonstrate the ability to return deep?

Presuming they were intentionally keep it low and short, In general, like everyone said, learn to:
* take balls on the rise # try practice baseline rallys with 2 feet inside the baseline
* handle low balls in the short court (abbreviated backswing, more topspin, etc...) # do more mini tennis (with topspin only!)
* learn to hit an approach shot to 4 corners of the court # force yourself to take every short ball as an approach (vs. running back to the safety of the baseline)
* learn to s&v # force yourself to s&v against people you normally beat

My guess (from my own progressions) is that you like to practice your groundstrokes only from the baseline (not too far from the center hash mark),.. and are possibly guilty of letting the ball bounce twice in practice.

your guess is on the spot - ability to consistently win points out of short return is one of the things that separates a low 4(like me) from higher levels I imagine. I usually win against guys who tend to hit deep (even with pace) - it's been difficult to adjust or stay motivated to tackle slow shots or slow serves ( "he can't hit a proper ground stroke - do I really bother..." thinking ) until I'm a break or two down and uphill battle from there. Definitely I'll take such players seriously next time from get go (in addition to treating the short balls properly which is an easier thing if you expect such a strategy) !

 

[Deleted member 23235]

your guess is on the spot - ability to consistently win points out of short return is one of the things that separates a low 4(like me) from higher levels I imagine. I usually win against guys who tend to hit deep (even with pace) - it's been difficult to adjust or stay motivated to tackle slow shots or slow serves ( "he can't hit a proper ground stroke - do I really bother..." thinking ) until I'm a break or two down and uphill battle from there. Definitely I'll take such players seriously next time from get go (in addition to treating the short balls properly which is an easier thing if you expect such a strategy) !

It's way easier to play against opponents (like mid 4.0 players) who have grooved "proper" groundstrokes, but not sooo grooved that they can hit away from you consistently, because they typically want to hit hard, but don't have quite the control to hit away from you, so the balls tend to land short, and bounce right up to where you're standing (center hash mark), and usually in your strikezone not requiring you to move too much.

I've played 3.5 to low 4.0's that I swear hit just as hard as I do when I'm bashing the ball to them at the center hash mark (or they might take 2-3 steps back if I happen to be hitting deep),... and they'll even T off and hit winners (when we're supposed to be hitting "cooperatively")... but as soon as a "real game" starts (or groundstroke games - since usually their serves are terrible), I can literally just throw up lobs and win because they can't move and hit... then they wonder why they were hitting so well in practice, but found the back fence when playing "for real".

Playing players with poor erratic technique (or short choppy "pushers"), are a nightmare because they hit all over the place (intentionally or not)... they don't hit hard, but since you don't practice moving AND hitting, you lose due to unforced errors.

Main thing for you to practice in general would be to move and hit. So after the warmup,
* don't let balls bounce twice,...
* even if a ball is just out, reach it, and hit it anyway.
* keep moving, split stepping, etc... in between strokes
Presuming your fundamental strokes are decent.... If you're out of shape, you're better off practicing for 30 min of "run every ball down and try to hit it back with good technique", than spending 3hrs hitting easy fed balls from the center hash mark (though admittedly this is often therapeutic to me!)

 

[randomcollegeplayer]

Do you have solid volleys?
Can you roll an approach shot to a corner with topspin?
Can you hit a deep slice off a short ball?
If your net game is good, and you are able to either roll an approach shot or slice, thank the kind man for the gift and set yourself up for an easy putaway ball at the net. If your net game is not good, do one of the above and get back to the baseline. If you cant do any of those, work on it when practicing- the ability to deal with short balls is crucial.