How to play like a pusher?

[Mick]

You are kidding right?

If it was in the context of competitive play any normal person would play their own game regardless of who they are playing - that being the type of game that compliments their strengths. Why would you want to change things around playing a style of game unnatural to you, and risk them gaining confidence winning some points/games and prolonging the game any longer than is required, when you can play a quick match, hit the showers and rest up???

The examples you showed were fun little hit arounds with kids!!!!!!!!!

You dont see the Djoker hanging around playing 5 setters in the first rounds at majors just cos he likes to play 'cat and mouse'

well, sorry to disappoint you , I often would push when practicing with 2 players who are below my level. (I am the cat, they are the mice)
I would only go for a winner if they hit a shot that causes me to be out position and cannot push back without losing the rally. Of course, I don't push when I play the players at my level, They would have me for lunch if i did that !

Djokovic plays his game at the majors because his opponents are all 7.0 pro players. I am pretty sure he would take it easy on a 5.0 or 6.0 in a practice session. After all, he's a nice guy. I remember he took it easy on McEnroe when they had that rally at the US Open a few years back.

Serena would push too when playing a low level player and we all know she can crush the ball anytime she wants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKJ6e4y-tSk

 

[maxpotapov]

Speaking of ATP pros,

Murray is a reformed pusher
Nadal is a bullying pusher
Roddick was a backhand pusher
Tomic is an aggressor in a pusher disguise
Santoro was just a magician
...

 

[Silent]

1. Run fast, run far
2. Hit the open court
3. Love yourself, a lot, because nobody else will.

 

[Mick]

1. Run fast, run far
2. Hit the open court
3. Love yourself, a lot, because nobody else will.

#3 applies to all amateur tennis players, not only to pushers.
the other players just want you to get off the court, so they can use it, no matter how good you think you are.

sorry, amateur players are not federer, nadal, or djokovic. Nobody loves them.

 

[HughJars]

I like to push all the time just for the workout. For fun I will serve and volley and bash, but when the heat of battle starts, I'll push.

Quick thoughts:
1. the only way you beat me is to overpower me and blow me off the court.
2. I enjoy eating up your weaker side (usually your bh) by hitting high top spin balls or short slices.
3. move you off the baseline. I love hitting short slices around the T area and making you "hit up" and out of rythym.4. I don't miss that often.
5. I will get just about every ball I can back, so you gotta hit winners
6. I love to see you get mad and frustrated

You love hitting short balls? Righto....

You must get a sore throat from opponents coming to the net and slamming and ball down it.

 

[Cobra Tennis]

You love hitting short balls? Righto....

You must get a sore throat from opponents coming to the net and slamming and ball down it.

They aren't approach shots. They are LOW, just behind the T that make you step forward and hit up and not be glued to the baseline. They essentially make you lunge forward toward the ball.

If an opponent does approach, they have to "hit up" high over the net that allows a good opportunity to rip a pass.


Works for me at the 4.5 level. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Silent]

#3 applies to all amateur tennis players, not only to pushers.
the other players just want you to get off the court, so they can use it, no matter how good you think you are.

sorry, amateur players are not federer, nadal, or djokovic. Nobody loves them.

Hey, I'm pretty sure my mom loves me

Don't be so mean.

 

[HughJars]

They aren't approach shots. They are LOW, just behind the T that make you step forward and hit up and not be glued to the baseline. They essentially make you lunge forward toward the ball.

If an opponent does approach, they have to "hit up" high over the net that allows a good opportunity to rip a pass.


Works for me at the 4.5 level. Your mileage may vary.

And this my friends is why pushers cant handle decent net rushers.

I play 3.5 level. Even there a shortball is a shortball - they're approachable and what you are looking for to pounce on. It's tennis strategy 101 that hitting short ball at the T, like you suggest, isn't a smart move. Regardless of them being low, your enabling your opponent to come into the court and be attacking. At the 4.5 level, any half decent opponent could hit a deep approach, most likely down the line or to the opponent's weaker side (sure it may not have power, but it doesnt have to), then close down the angles at the net and swat away an attempted pass. Then at the same time indulge in a full course breakfast....

Unless your playing an old man who cant bed his knees, or on soggy grass, on any day of the week, on any place on earth hitting a short ball straight down the court will never tip the balance in your favour of winning a point.

 

[Cobra Tennis]

And this my friends is why pushers cant handle decent net rushers.

I play 3.5 level. Even there a shortball is a shortball - they're approachable and what you are looking for to pounce on. It's tennis strategy 101 that hitting short ball at the T, like you suggest, isn't a smart move. Regardless of them being low, your enabling your opponent to come into the court and be attacking. At the 4.5 level, any half decent opponent could hit a deep approach, most likely down the line or to the opponent's weaker side (sure it may not have power, but it doesnt have to), then close down the angles at the net and swat away an attempted pass. Then at the same time indulge in a full course breakfast....

Unless your playing an old man who cant bed his knees, or on soggy grass, on any day of the week, on any place on earth hitting a short ball straight down the court will never tip the balance in your favour of winning a point.

As I said, your mileage may vary. The art of pushing is complex and I believe starts with rule #1---knowing your opponent.

If I know that I can hit good passing shots (which I can) and he is hesitant to move forward or isn't a good volleyer, it plays to my strength and his weakness.

I have beaten many a "net rusher" by baiting them to come in and then simply playing a lob. It's really frustrating for opponents because they know what is coming.

 

[Silent]

Pushing may be a craft. But art? Never

 

[maxpotapov]

Pushing may be a craft. But art? Never

That's probably because you are too young
http://youtu.be/kT4-hdkvxmc

 

[cartel]

to me pushers are almost like cheating--

they generally cant rally with pace so they resort to "get it back" to me thats not the point of tennis- just because you can float it back 10 times and win the point because you bore your opponent to death doesnt really make you a better tennis player IMO even though you may win the "score"

ive played with some guys who i can out rally - i serve harder and once we start "keeping score" the fun goes out of it for me as now their objective is to win the point - NOT play "good" tennis.. ive realized that with these people i have no interest in playing a match - i dont want a 2 hour tennis match where all we do it float balls back and forth- thats not the exercise i want and not the game i want to play.

i guess to sum it up - playing a moonballer/pusher whether win or lose its not an enjoyable time on court--

 

[TCF]

to me pushers are almost like cheating--

they generally cant rally with pace so they resort to "get it back" to me thats not the point of tennis- just because you can float it back 10 times and win the point because you bore your opponent to death doesnt really make you a better tennis player IMO even though you may win the "score"

ive played with some guys who i can out rally - i serve harder and once we start "keeping score" the fun goes out of it for me as now their objective is to win the point - NOT play "good" tennis.. ive realized that with these people i have no interest in playing a match - i dont want a 2 hour tennis match where all we do it float balls back and forth- thats not the exercise i want and not the game i want to play.

i guess to sum it up - playing a moonballer/pusher whether win or lose its not an enjoyable time on court--

I agree 100%. We have to teach our juniors how to deal with them. They have to learn to beat them in order to have success in tournaments. That is just part of tournament tennis.

But my own just for fun tennis? Different story. I simply do not waste time playing with them because I have other options. Even when you beat them its still not a fun way to spend the afternoon. To me it would be no different than going to shoot hoops or play golf with someone who annoyed me.....why bother?

 

[Cobra Tennis]

to me pushers are almost like cheating--

they generally cant rally with pace so they resort to "get it back" to me thats not the point of tennis- just because you can float it back 10 times and win the point because you bore your opponent to death doesnt really make you a better tennis player IMO even though you may win the "score"

ive played with some guys who i can out rally - i serve harder and once we start "keeping score" the fun goes out of it for me as now their objective is to win the point - NOT play "good" tennis.. ive realized that with these people i have no interest in playing a match - i dont want a 2 hour tennis match where all we do it float balls back and forth- thats not the exercise i want and not the game i want to play.

i guess to sum it up - playing a moonballer/pusher whether win or lose its not an enjoyable time on court--

I completely empathize with you. I agree. Now that I don't play HS or d2 college ball anymore, I will go out there and try to have fun and hit winners.

 

[mightyrick]

I agree 100%. We have to teach our juniors how to deal with them. They have to learn to beat them in order to have success in tournaments. That is just part of tournament tennis.

But my own just for fun tennis? Different story. I simply do not waste time playing with them because I have other options. Even when you beat them its still not a fun way to spend the afternoon. To me it would be no different than going to shoot hoops or play golf with someone who annoyed me.....why bother?

I dunno, from a "working on my skills" perspective, I'd rather play a good pusher in a two hour match for free than pay to pay a coach $50/hr to feed me the same kind of balls.

I think playing pushers is one of the best way to improve your strokes. Learning to beat a pusher will force you to learn:

1) The footwork necessary to attack sitters.
2) The kind of stroke (FH or BH) necessary to put away a short sitter FH (or BH).
3) Endless reps for the baselining off both wings.
4) How to construct a point.
5) Potentially how to approach the net and volley better.
6) How to hit an overhead (if they lob you at net).
7) Fitness improvement.

Huge benefits to playing pushers. Since they don't have weapons, you don't have to worry about defending against hard winners. You just take what they give you and execute your strategy.

Love love love pushers.

 

[TCF]

Rick...I agree totally with all your thoughts on pushers. I LOVE our junior students to play them.

But little old me, just out for some fun smashing the ball when I get a little time to hit? I would rather not.

 

[Mick]

Rick,
It's not fun for the other guys because most of them would end up losing the matches and they are so competitive that such a loss would ruin their days

 

[HughJars]

If a pusher beats me, its cos they are the better player. And I shake their hand at the net and acknowledge it.

So many people with their heads up their arses thinking that even though they lose to a pusher they think they are still better players. This is b*llshit. What more evidence do you want than the frikkin scoreboard?

So you're struggling to accept that the pusher who beat you is a better player?

 

[mightyrick]

If a pusher beats me, its cos they are the better player. And I shake their hand at the net and acknowledge it.

So many people with their heads up their arses thinking that even though they lose to a pusher they think they are still better players. This is b*llshit. What more evidence do you want than the frikkin scoreboard?

It's the same logic where just because someone has good looking strokes and can hit decent topspin in a puff-ball, up-the-middle-only practice rally... they get an insta-NTRP-5.0 rating.

But show a video of a 4.0 pusher who has a crap serve and very little fundamental groundstroke ability (yet is super consistent) then he gets judged as a 3.0.

 

[Silent]

That's probably because you are too young
http://youtu.be/kT4-hdkvxmc

In the theoretical sense of the word, it cannot be art.

In a romantic way, then sure, it can be.

Personally, I dislike playing against a pusher and I wouldn't become one even if I could be effective at it. It's within the rules, but it's almost a perversion of the sport.

As an analogy, watch this video of the Flyers vs. the Lightning. In hockey, there is a defensive system called "The Trap" that essentially consists of waiting for the team on offense to come to you, let them make a mistake, then counter-attack. This is anti-hockey because the purpose of the game is to take possession of the puck, and put it in the net, not to wait for something to happen. The Flyers tried to illustrate this by not attacking, illustrating the fact that if both teams play that way, nothing happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGbZPx_HPY

Now, tennis is a bit different because even when pushing, you still have to hit the ball back, and it still has to find the box, or else you lose the point, whereas in the above situation, there is no danger of being scored on.

The reason it's almost a perversion of the game is because it's less about the enjoyment of the game, and more about plain winning, i.e. pushing takes purity away from the game.

It's not too long ago that zone defense was prohibited in the NBA.

That's why Tiger Woods revolutionized the game of golf. It used to be a sport where every player had a ten-foot pole up their asses, never trying anything, playing the percentages. He showed the world golf could be exciting. Now look at the players today. Ricky Fowler does not exist without Tiger Woods. Now, Tiger showed us other stuff as well but that's beside the point.

As for Santoro, he's a junk baller, and that takes more skill than to simply hit the ball back. I don't need to tell you this I'm sure, but taking pace off and putting spin on the ball as Santoro used to do is very, very hard to accomplish. For the record, I am 32 years old and have enjoyed watching Santoro play immensely. Anyone who dislikes this guy has issues.

 

[mhkeuns]

I like to push all the time just for the workout. For fun I will serve and volley and bash, but when the heat of battle starts, I'll push.

Quick thoughts:
1. the only way you beat me is to overpower me and blow me off the court.
2. I enjoy eating up your weaker side (usually your bh) by hitting high top spin balls or short slices.
3. move you off the baseline. I love hitting short slices around the T area and making you "hit up" and out of rythym.
4. I don't miss that often.
5. I will get just about every ball I can back, so you gotta hit winners
6. I love to see you get mad and frustrated

:evil:
I just lost to a guy who plays like you. He was like Michael Chang fast with moon balls and lobs. Never missed so many close shots! Still angry thinking about that!

 

[mhkeuns]

If a pusher beats me, its cos they are the better player. And I shake their hand at the net and acknowledge it.

So many people with their heads up their arses thinking that even though they lose to a pusher they think they are still better players. This is b*llshit. What more evidence do you want than the frikkin scoreboard?

So you're struggling to accept that the pusher who beat you is a better player?

You are totally right. I think it's because after making so many unforced errors, it gets to your head... that if you are just a little more patient.... maybe the outcome could be different.

The truth is I lost to a better player who knew how to beat me. It's still frustrating when I hit more clean winners than he did but still ended up losing the match.

It's all good and fun, though. Next time, I'll have to bring a different strategy!

 

[maxpotapov]

In the theoretical sense of the word, it cannot be art.

In a romantic way, then sure, it can be.

Personally, I dislike playing against a pusher and I wouldn't become one even if I could be effective at it. It's within the rules, but it's almost a perversion of the sport.

As an analogy, watch this video of the Flyers vs. the Lightning. In hockey, there is a defensive system called "The Trap" that essentially consists of waiting for the team on offense to come to you, let them make a mistake, then counter-attack. This is anti-hockey because the purpose of the game is to take possession of the puck, and put it in the net, not to wait for something to happen. The Flyers tried to illustrate this by not attacking, illustrating the fact that if both teams play that way, nothing happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWGbZPx_HPY

Now, tennis is a bit different because even when pushing, you still have to hit the ball back, and it still has to find the box, or else you lose the point, whereas in the above situation, there is no danger of being scored on.

The reason it's almost a perversion of the game is because it's less about the enjoyment of the game, and more about plain winning, i.e. pushing takes purity away from the game.

It's not too long ago that zone defense was prohibited in the NBA.

That's why Tiger Woods revolutionized the game of golf. It used to be a sport where every player had a ten-foot pole up their asses, never trying anything, playing the percentages. He showed the world golf could be exciting. Now look at the players today. Ricky Fowler does not exist without Tiger Woois. Now, Tiger showed us other stuff as well but that's beside the point.

As for Santoro, he's a junk baller, and that takes more skill than to simply hit the ball back. I don't need to tell you this I'm sure, but taking pace off and putting spin on the ball as Santoro used to do is very, very hard to accomplish. For the record, I am 32 years old and have enjoyed watching Santoro play immensely. Anyone who dislikes this guy has issues.

Great insight! Thanks

 

[Topspin Shot]

 

[Mick]

to me pushers are almost like cheating--

they generally cant rally with pace so they resort to "get it back" to me thats not the point of tennis- just because you can float it back 10 times and win the point because you bore your opponent to death doesnt really make you a better tennis player IMO even though you may win the "score"

if you float it back 10 times or however long it takes to win the point, it means you don't have a weapon. I would blame that on myself if that happens to me, instead of the other guy. He hits nothing balls and I can't take advantage of the situation. Guys with weapons would find openings to finish the points.

By the way, don't they call players without a weapon "pushers" here too :shock:

 

[mightyrick]

if you float it back 10 times or however long it takes to win the point, it means you don't have a weapon. I would blame that on myself if that happens to me, instead of the other guy. He hits nothing ball and I can't take advantage of the situtation. Guys with weapons would find openings to finish the points.

By the way, don't they call players without a weapon "pushers" here too :shock:

Well, it can depend on the situation.

When I am playing mixed doubles, if there is an attractive woman either as my partner or as an opponent... then I might become a pusher just to extend the length of points... make her move... and extend the length of the time I get a chance to continue to gawk at her.

I guess that makes me a pig. Oh well.

 

[dunnfishing]

Just play moonballs, slices, and weak serves, waiting for the error. When I have tired this, I get pulled all over the court, until my opponent hits the ball passed me.

Perhaps you are underestimating the shots of a great pusher like Borg or Higueras or Chang. Yes they play moonballs and slices with less pace, but notice where all their shots land - deep and within 2 square feet of their target, and EVERY TIME. Are your shots doing that? If not maybe that's why you're getting pulled all over the court. If not, then maybe you're underestimating the speed and court coverage of the great pushers. In any case, I agree with you that these players and their style are underrated. I actually played Chang once in an over 40s tourney, and even though his shots are all relatively low paced, he is super tough and quick - more devastating than most power hitters I've ever faced. I agree with you that working into your game the ability to push when you need it and as a variation tactic would be a powerful powerful addition to your game. I'm going to see if I can try it in my match this evening. Will let you know how it goes...

 

[Mick]

Well, it can depend on the situation.

When I am playing mixed doubles, if there is an attractive woman either as my partner or as an opponent... then I might become a pusher just to extend the length of points... make her move... and extend the length of the time I get a chance to continue to gawk at her.

I guess that makes me a pig. Oh well.

I know what you mean
In such a situation not only would I push but I would also set up the winning shots for her to put away. Winning is not the goal, the goal is to make her look good on the tennis court.

 

[chunlimeyers]

And this should probably in a whole different thread by itself, but I believe that the invention of the widebody racket is why their are so many pushers on the court today. Like, the first old guy that got a nice, wide racket said, "Wow, i don't have to swing anymore!".. and then just didn't.. I would like to say, "Correct me if I am wrong, but, its a FORUM, that is what u guys DO!" haha

With such high powered rackets the need to even DEVELOP good strokes vs block under pressure has been.. I don't know, too many ugly words to put in here. But, U get my point, I believe that if rackets didn't get larger and thicker their might possibly be one tournament out of the year I don't have to play 2 or 3 pushers until I get to play one player that can play and then enjoy the game and winning or losing a well played match.

 

[HughJars]

It's the same logic where just because someone has good looking strokes and can hit decent topspin in a puff-ball, up-the-middle-only practice rally... they get an insta-NTRP-5.0 rating.

But show a video of a 4.0 pusher who has a crap serve and very little fundamental groundstroke ability (yet is super consistent) then he gets judged as a 3.0.

So true.

The most appropriate way to get a measure of someone's rating is to watch how they perform in a match.

Except if you're Leed - with his magical powers all he needs 5 seconds and a quick look at their backhand slice. Hell - you probably don't even need a video.

 

[cartel]

I know what you mean
In such a situation not only would I push but I would also set up the winning shots for her to put away. Winning is not the goal, the goal is to make her look good on the tennis court.

i agree LOL
you know in doubles it doesnt bother me at all as i usually play doubles with an older crowd and while they keep score to know who serves next its not a "match" in the same sense as i think of it in singles..

i can play a pusher but if they want to keep score then its all about ending the points - then i need to be in that mindset to be aggressive and take no mercy.. ive played lots of people over the years where i "play down" because i see no point in beating someone senseless in a recreational setting.. eventually you end up with no one to play as they dont like getting slaughtered..

i play tennis now for
1) fitness
2)fun
and to me that means going for shots- with pace..

 

[cartel]

Perhaps you are underestimating the shots of a great pusher like Borg Yes they play moonballs and slices with less pace,

Borg was my original Tennis inspiration-- i never saw him as a "pusher"

to me pusher = moonballer-- someone who doesnt go for winners--

Borg hit some of the best passing shots of all time and he S+V at wimbledon--

so maybe i dont know what a pusher is