How to play sectionals?

[letplaytennis]

This has been my 1st year playing USTA tennis after a long break. I played local adult leagues and 3.5 USTA team doubles. I'm a singles player and don't like to play doubles too much and there is a lack of singles action other than one line of singles.

I have registered for my first 4.0 singles tournament that is this weekend in Hurst, TX.

Do I need to play for a local team in order to progress to sectionals>nationals>etc? What is the selection process if no? Can I simply play tournaments 2-3 weekends out of the month and register for sectionals?

Pardon the newb question, this is the first time I'm playing organized tennis since high school and a semester in college.

Thanks.

 

[kevrol]

Sectionals is a League tournament so you'd have to play league tennis and be on a team that advances to districts/sectionals.

 

[letplaytennis]

Aha. So if I play tournaments only, then there's nowhere to advance to after each tournament?

 

[schmke]

The USTA has a number of different programs/options available to members. At a high level these fall into Leagues, NTRP Tournaments, and Open/Senior Tournaments (based on age).

League play is very much like it sounds, teams are formed and play in a local league against each other. There are different divisions/age levels (18+, 40+, 55+, 65+, and more) and there is play in both Adult (same gender) and Mixed. There are 17 sections involved in league play and each one is split up into districts and areas and in what are called the "advancing" leagues, there are playoffs at one or more levels including local, regional, district/state, and section. Each section winner is eligible to advance to Nationals. Thus these leagues can "advance" to Nationals. There are other leagues a section may offer that are not "advancing" but may still have playoffs up through Sectionals.

All play in league is done based on NTRP levels and players get an NTRP calculated based on their results but self-rate in order to begin play following guidelines.

NTRP tournaments, as you might expect, also use NTRP levels to govern play but these are not team based but individual or doubles pair based and are typically done over a weekend or at most two and formats may be standard draws perhaps with a losers bracket. These results can be used to influence the year-end NTRP level (depends on your section) that gets calculated/assigned but you can also accumulate points based on how you do and there are NTRP rankings the USTA publishes. There is also a new "NTRP Nationals" that those that "win" their section (that criteria is up to each section to determine) can advance to.

Open/Senior tournaments are open to anyone that meet the age criteria. Open is for any eligible age (sanctioned need to be 18+ I believe) and different tournaments may offer age divisions starting at 35+ potentially in increments of 5 years. NTRP level is not used for determining eligibility or draw. These results do not affect your NTRP level at all either. You do accumulate points contributing towards ranking lists at each age level/division.

I write about some of this on the FAQ on my blog. I can't post a link here but Google "Schmidt Computer Ratings NTRP FAQ" and you should find it.

 

[schmke]

Aha. So if I play tournaments only, then there's nowhere to advance to after each tournament?

Depends on the tournament. It is new, I need to write about it on my blog but was letting Nationals and year-end ratings die down first, but there are NTRP Nationals now that NTRP tournament players can advance to and there may be a Sectionals to play in to determine who goes to Nationals from your section.

 

[letplaytennis]

Thanks schmke.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: It appears that if I do NOT play in adult league play (which is mostly doubles with one singles), and play tournaments and accumulate points based off of wins/losses, I can still compete at a year-end event? If so, I'm perfect with playing weekend tournaments with the hopes of playing NTRP Nationals.

 

[schmke]

Thanks schmke.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: It appears that if I do NOT play in adult league play (which is mostly doubles with one singles), and play tournaments and accumulate points based off of wins/losses, I can still compete at a year-end event? If so, I'm perfect with playing weekend tournaments with the hopes of playing NTRP Nationals.

Yes, NTRP Nationals, and the progression to it, will give an opportunity to advance. However, specifics of how you do advance is up to each section. Some may take the top-ranked players from tournament play during a period of time and hold a sectional tournament to decide who will advance. Others may use other criteria.

See https://www.usta.com/ntrpnationals/ for some information and pointers to contacts in each section.

 

[OnTheLine]

FWIW, I believe that most sections for 40+ and 18+ play 2 lines of singles not 1 and most teams are always hunting for a good singles player as doubles players are more abundant.

 

[letplaytennis]

FWIW, I believe that most sections for 40+ and 18+ play 2 lines of singles not 1 and most teams are always hunting for a good singles player as doubles players are more abundant.

There's only one line of singles at the moment, it used to be 2 but it was cut in the Dallas, TX area. At least where I play. I believe it was due to teams having difficulty filling rosters.

 

[Rattler]

Thanks schmke.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: It appears that if I do NOT play in adult league play (which is mostly doubles with one singles), and play tournaments and accumulate points based off of wins/losses, I can still compete at a year-end event? If so, I'm perfect with playing weekend tournaments with the hopes of playing NTRP Nationals.

Okay, fellow Texan here...the year end event in the Texas Section is Poke-Joe’s...top eight in every division including Dubs includinf mixed..highly competitive from 4.0 up..the top 3.5s & 3.0s usually don’t enter so the field isn’t as competitive.

The Texas Sectionals Tournament is held in San Antonio in early Sept...usually the same weekend as The US Open semi’s and finals..it’s a three day tournament...full day on Friday..play starts at 8:00 AM

I assume the Nationals your referring to are the National adult tournaments? They are much harder to qualify for than the League or Junior ones, usually they are for Open level players and age groups...30+, 40+, 50+ and they are mostly former D1 players (top tier Tennis schools), club pros, or former touring pros...for the most part. There are Sectional team events apart from Leagues; however, I only know of a women’s event...I’m assuming there is a men’s event, but I’ve never heard of one.

good luck.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

If you enjoy singles, you should be in high demand with your phone blowing up, particularly if you are over 40. Almost all USTA rec players are lazy and don't want to put in the conditioning necessary to play quality singles. And yet singles is 2/3 of every league match. This makes players who enjoy singles and are good at it among the most sought after rec players.

 

[Rattler]

If you enjoy singles, you should be in high demand with your phone blowing up, particularly if you are over 40. Almost all USTA rec players are lazy and don't want to put in the conditioning necessary to play quality singles. And yet singles is 2/3 of every league match. This makes players who enjoy singles and are good at it among the most sought after rec players.

This is true particularly at 4.0 and 3.5

 

[schmke]

I assume the Nationals your referring to are the National adult tournaments?

Nope, there is a new NTRP Nationals for NTRP tournament players. I posted the general link earlier, but here is the specific document for Texas: https://www.usta.com/content/dam/us...orsement_2018NTRP_National_Championships.pdf#

 

[Rattler]

Nope, there is a new NTRP Nationals for NTRP tournament players. I posted the general link earlier, but here is the specific document for Texas: https://www.usta.com/content/dam/us...orsement_2018NTRP_National_Championships.pdf#

Okay didn’t know about this...

Limited to the top 3 though, that’s harsh.
Gonna be an Uber-competitive event.

Interesting that they specify that League play will not be considered, since league play is considered for year end rankings....hmmm, or did something change?

 

[schmke]

Okay didn’t know about this...

Limited to the top 3 though, that’s harsh.
Gonna be an Uber-competitive event.

Interesting that they specify that League play will not be considered, since league play is considered for year end rankings....hmmm, or did something change?

How would you factor in league play?

And league play already has a Nationals. This event is for NTRP tournament players to have a Nationals to aspire to, so they use tournament rankings to either qualify players for a Sectionals or directly as the representatives from a section to Nationals, or something similar at a section's discretion.

Note that it is interesting that a few of the sections that have their eligibility rules listed specifically state that self-rated players are not eligible. That will be received well by those that say USTA League shouldn't allow self-rated players to go to Nationals.

 

[letplaytennis]

If you enjoy singles, you should be in high demand with your phone blowing up, particularly if you are over 40. Almost all USTA rec players are lazy and don't want to put in the conditioning necessary to play quality singles. And yet singles is 2/3 of every league match. This makes players who enjoy singles and are good at it among the most sought after rec players.

I wish this was the case. I'm new to Dallas, moved here November 2016,and been playing tennis about 4 to 5 times per week. I'll stick with the 4.0 singles tournament route on the weekends as I do not enjoy the slow pace of doubles ALL the time.

I've reached out to the DTA in regards of me playing singles for a team, but being new and unknown, don't have many other options other than pricing myself on the courts.

Edit : I'm 35 and have more stamina than the average Joe. I have now roughly 6 different hitting partners as no one wants to play more than 2 hours a day and even back to back days.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I wish this was the case. I'm new to Dallas, moved here November 2016,and been playing tennis about 4 to 5 times per week. I'll stick with the 4.0 singles tournament route on the weekends as I do not enjoy the slow pace of doubles ALL the time.

I've reached out to the DTA in regards of me playing singles for a team, but being new and unknown, don't have many other options other than pricing myself on the courts.

Edit : I'm 35 and have more stamina than the average Joe. I have now roughly 6 different hitting partners as no one wants to play more than 2 hours a day and even back to back days.

Are you at a club? Random Craigslist ads? If you are at a club and you're willing/able to play singles, someone at the club isn't doing their job.

 

[Rattler]

How would you factor in league play?

And league play already has a Nationals. This event is for NTRP tournament players to have a Nationals to aspire to, so they use tournament rankings to either qualify players for a Sectionals or directly as the representatives from a section to Nationals, or something similar at a section's discretion.

Note that it is interesting that a few of the sections that have their eligibility rules listed specifically state that self-rated players are not eligible. That will be received well by those that say USTA League shouldn't allow self-rated players to go to Nationals.

Didn’t dispute that league play has a nationals...for League TEAMS; however, the Section factors in league play for individual rankings....that’s the point I made. Meaning to qualify for this event, you have to be ranked in the top 3 in the section (according to the information you posted) and that same information specifies that league play will not be considered....BUT league play has already been considered for individual sectional rankings....that’s the ironic/interesting point. Depends on individual sectional rankings, which league and tournament play are considered....but makes a point to state league play will not be considered....does the irony of this now make sense?

 

[letplaytennis]

Are you at a club? Random Craigslist ads? If you are at a club and you're willing/able to play singles, someone at the club isn't doing their job.

Started playing at High Point Tennis Center. They're more geared toward a family atmosphere and youngsters. There's hardly anyone over 4.5 there, and the men's Champs league was a bunch of 3.5 players. No thanks.

I have found better players through the phone app 'tennis buddy'. That's how I'm able to keep a roster of so many hitting partners.

I've reached out to other team captains with little to no responses, so I'm left with playing tournaments, and that's not just because I enjoy tennis so much, but because of the higher singles competition.

 

[Rattler]

Started playing at High Point Tennis Center. They're more geared toward a family atmosphere and youngsters. There's hardly anyone over 4.5 there, and the men's Champs league was a bunch of 3.5 players. No thanks.

I have found better players through the phone app 'tennis buddy'. That's how I'm able to keep a roster of so many hitting partners.

I've reached out to other team captains with little to no responses, so I'm left with playing tournaments, and that's not just because I enjoy tennis so much, but because of the higher singles competition.

Ask the Coach at Collin College...years ago there were some 4.5’s that would play on those courts....just up the road from High Point...like a mile or so.

 

[schmke]

Didn’t dispute that league play has a nationals...for League TEAMS; however, the Section factors in league play for individual rankings....that’s the point I made. Meaning to qualify for this event, you have to be ranked in the top 3 in the section (according to the information you posted) and that same information specifies that league play will not be considered....BUT league play has already been considered for individual sectional rankings....that’s the ironic/interesting point. Depends on individual sectional rankings, which league and tournament play are considered....but makes a point to state league play will not be considered....does the irony of this now make sense?

Ummm, no.

Rankings are different than ratings. League play has zero impact on rankings and only affects your NTRP rating. The rankings discussed as the criteria for NTRP Nationals selection are rankings that are based on points you accumulate playing NTRP tournaments, the points based on rounds you win and not based on scores or opponents ratings as is the case with dynamic and year-end ratings. The only reason NTRP is involved is that your current NTRP level is what is used to determine what NTRP level you can play in the tournament.

So given that the ranking is based on rounds won in tournaments, there is no way for league play to be factored in to that.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Started playing at High Point Tennis Center. They're more geared toward a family atmosphere and youngsters. There's hardly anyone over 4.5 there, and the men's Champs league was a bunch of 3.5 players. No thanks.

I have found better players through the phone app 'tennis buddy'. That's how I'm able to keep a roster of so many hitting partners.

I've reached out to other team captains with little to no responses, so I'm left with playing tournaments, and that's not just because I enjoy tennis so much, but because of the higher singles competition.

Is that a club or a public facility? Any legit private club will have numerous players at higher than the 3.5 level. And part of your club fee is that the club pro/staff plug you in with appropriate players on your level when you are new to town. That's why you pay membership fees. If they are not doing that, they are dropping the ball.

 

[letplaytennis]

Is that a club or a public facility? Any legit private club will have numerous players at higher than the 3.5 level. And part of your club fee is that the club pro/staff plug you in with appropriate players on your level when you are new to town. That's why you pay membership fees. If they are not doing that, they are dropping the ball.

It's a public facility. It has a great reputation here. I'm not certain of any local clubs and I'd hate to deal with Dallas rush hour traffic on a daily basis since I'm north of the city, but if that's what I have to do then so be it. I'll search online and get in contact with the club operations.

 

[Rattler]

Ummm, no.

Rankings are different than ratings. League play has zero impact on rankings and only affects your NTRP rating. The rankings discussed as the criteria for NTRP Nationals selection are rankings that are based on points you accumulate playing NTRP tournaments, the points based on rounds you win and not based on scores or opponents ratings as is the case with dynamic and year-end ratings. The only reason NTRP is involved is that your current NTRP level is what is used to determine what NTRP level you can play in the tournament.

So given that the ranking is based on rounds won in tournaments, there is no way for league play to be factored in to that.

Ummm yeah...but we can agree to disagree

 

[letplaytennis]

Received an email from the Texas USTA outlining some of the things already discussed here. Also, I received an attachment with some of the higher point value tournaments in TX, both singles and doubles, along with a breakdown for junior, adult and seniors. Looks like I'll be doing more weekend tournaments than league play this season.

 

[stevenymets]

@schmke I want to make sure I am understanding this right. Their is advancement to sectional singles tournaments by accumulating points within your district playing NTRP singles tournaments throughout the year and then onto a national tournament as well?

But did I read you can’t be self rated to play in nationals? Can one get a computer rating by playing just tournaments over the course of a year?

Ex., I play 3.0, or 3.5 or whatever, and play a series of tournaments throughout the year, win some do well in most, and for each tournament I accumulate points by rounds. Those points translate into a ranking, just like the pro tours, and if I finish in the top, whatever the cut off is, I qualify for a sectional tournament? And if I win that I qualify for a national tournament, all within my NTRP rating?

If that is the case, then @Rattler, What @schmke said makes sense. League play doesn’t effect your ranking. Your ranking is strictly from accumulating points in tournaments.

League play could effect your rating if you played leagues, but even absent playing leagues, my guess is you could develop a rating by playing tournaments only.

Do they also allow qualifying for double’s teams?

So winning nationals gives you bragging rights as the best 4.0, or 3.0, or 4.5 or whatever NTRP level you are at in the country. Those are some pretty chest thumping bragging rights....

 

[schmke]

Yes, there will be advancement to an "NTRP Tournament Nationals" based solely on your play in NTRP tournaments. And qualification for a Sectionals or selection by your section to go to Nationals will be based on your tournament results/ranking and have nothing to do with your league play which only affects your NTRP rating/level.

And yes, it appears self-rates will not be eligible. I take this to mean that players that have only played tournaments and get a "T" rating will be eligible though.

And yes, in addition to singles players, doubles teams can advance too.

 

[Rattler]

...you all realize that league play is factored in under the ‘all means’ of determining seeds for NTRP tourneys, right?










...and League play is also a factor in determining Year-End Sectional rankings....
Which is sole requirement for getting into this event....
















Ergo, it does count.

 

[schmke]

...you all realize that league play is factored in under the ‘all means’ of determining seeds for NTRP tourneys, right?

Never seen it happen in my area. Not saying it can't be done, a tournament director has a lot of leeway in how they decide to do seeding. But would love to hear an example or see something documented on it.

...and League play is also a factor in determining Year-End Sectional rankings....
Which is sole requirement for getting into this event....

This I do not believe. Every tournament ranking list I've seen uses results from tournaments alone. Again, show me an example or something documenting this and I'll be enlightened.

 

[schmke]

@Rattler, here is an example.

From reading the Texas selection rules, they will be using the Year-to-Date Rankings at the end of the year. As of 12/18, the #1 player on the NTRP 4.0 men's list has 2,255 points. This player also played USTA League, playing nine matches in 18+ including three local playoff matches. If you look at his tournament record, he had event points of 601, 601, 401, 151, 401, 201, 251, 201, the top-5 of which count and that total equals 2,255 (I've bolded those top-5).

So his points used for Year-to-Date Rankings purposes, which is the list Texas uses for selection, do not include any league results, only tournament results. The only way league play has any factor is that his league play during 2016 is what determined his 4.0C level which determined what level he was eligible to play at in 2017. But those results to not affect or change his tournament ranking/points, what is used for selection, in any way.

Show me a different example and I'll revisit my position.

 

[OnTheLine]

At least in my section your NTRP rating is not the same as your ranking.

For instance, I play in 3.5 league, am a 3.5C, but because of my tournament play I am on the ranking lists for both 3.5 AND 4.0 as I have played and won in NTRP tournaments in both those divisions, both singles and doubles. (I may actually have dropped off the 4.0 ranking as only played one tournament at that level, haven't checked in a while)

I know of another player who is a 3.0C but is the number 2 ranked player in the section for 3.5 singles and #6 in 3.5 doubles. So that 3.0C could play in a 3.5 tournament sectional based on the ranking list.

But to be eligible for any ranking list (see drop downs between eligible and non-eligible players in tennis link) you have to have a computer rating, whether that is a C (league play), M (mixed play) or T (tournament play).

Please also note that doubles rankings are by person not by doubles team. So if you play with multiple people, you each have your own ranking points. So it could be that you and your favorite partner would not both be ranked high enough.

 

[jmc3367]

in the southern section you had to enter the i and only qualifying tournament (which I didn't know about) in order to go to the National tournament. there were only 2 guys that even played in that. I sent an email to my sectional coordinator but it looks like i am out of luck for this year