Your joke falls flat. I suggest you delete it. There are lots of mentally disturbed people out there with access to weapons. The USTA needs to recognize this lest they find themself a named defendant in wrongful death lawsuit. Hire linesman or invest in a tech solution!
How to React to bad line calling
- Thread starter lskater
- Start date
kevin qmto
Legend
He’s usually decent but a few times he’s called a good ball out. Playing on clay helps though.
Interesting thread
There are many players who, depending upon when they learned tennis and/or their age or physical condition, will never move past 3.5, even if they have the best coaching in the world. There are even more people who will never move past 4.0. Some of these 4.0s drop to 3.5 due to injury/age as they get older. There's nothing wrong with playing at the 3.5 level after six years of lessons. In fact, if someone started tennis six years ago or just picked up tennis seriously again after playing recreationally as a kid, I'd say it's a good to have achieved the 3.5 after 6 years. Of course, some people move up much faster, but tennis is a game with a learning curve.
There are many players who, depending upon when they learned tennis and/or their age or physical condition, will never move past 3.5, even if they have the best coaching in the world. There are even more people who will never move past 4.0. Some of these 4.0s drop to 3.5 due to injury/age as they get older. There's nothing wrong with playing at the 3.5 level after six years of lessons. In fact, if someone started tennis six years ago or just picked up tennis seriously again after playing recreationally as a kid, I'd say it's a good to have achieved the 3.5 after 6 years. Of course, some people move up much faster, but tennis is a game with a learning curve.
Probably best to give up the lessons if that’s the case, but if OP enjoying what they are doing good for them.
The problem ime with strategic hookers on clay, is that they can always just pretend they dont know what/where the mark is.
Unless there's a 3rd party to officiate they *can* just hold to their bad calls if it's malicious and not parallax
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
We've had a few players, or even a couple teams that became well known for bad line calls. You just make sure to have teammates standing on the opponents side and providing commentary or shooting video. Seems to cure a lot of it, or if they STILL make those calls you can contact the LC. I never had anything go to that level myself, but I have seen it a few times over the years.
I tend to play personally. Not much else you can do in the match aside from giving them a questioning check. Again, personally have only had a few players I ever really knew made bad calls often.
I tend to play personally. Not much else you can do in the match aside from giving them a questioning check. Again, personally have only had a few players I ever really knew made bad calls often.
There are at least as many bad line calls as there are guys swearing their opponent is making bad line calls.
Your opponent was probably telling everyone what a horrible person he was playing and that he got hooked all match long.
Even on his serve that was out by several inches and left a mark, I would have just given him the point. Anyone that complains about a serve like that just isn't worth dealing with.
Hopefully someone who takes lessons enjoys them and learns from them. Applying the lessons can be harder. We also don't know how often the OP is taking lessons and how much time he or she is practicing, right? Are they private or group?
Do you ask your opponents if they are okay with you posting videos of the matches online and revealing their names? I'm just curious. It's kind of fun to see these amateur matches, but as far as questioning and arguments go, it's not too uncommon to see these type of situations.
I'd say it's actually a little hard to tell about the ball at 3:34ish based on the video. The ball is clearly very close to the line. I'm assuming the mark shows clear space but it's hard to see that in the video.
What level league is this? 4.0?
kevin qmto
Legend
I always, always ask if the other party is ok with being filmed prior to the match starting. I have no problems not filming if they’re uncomfortable with it. And I always post the videos as unlisted. None of my usual YouTube content is tennis related.
NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter
Rookie
Gotta have balls to do that... or be a sociopath which the guy in that one video appeared to be. Hell, on hard courts a lot of times you get a fuzz mark.
cks
Hall of Fame
@kevin qmto, thanks for sharing the videos and putting yourself out there.
I'm curious, how often do you need to use video to dispute line calls against opponents? Is it less than 5% of matches?
kevin qmto
Legend
Do you think someone maliciously calling bad calls doesn't have the cajones to do it on clay lmao
The guys I've met like that were all totally unapologetic. Most just get defensive and insist you're wrong if called out. Some just act smug knowing you can't do anything, try to goad you more.
Hence my first post about adopting strats that explicitly don't let them play those games...
I've met like 5-6 people like this in the past few years since I started playing again. 3 of them I played somewhat often because we were part of a larger group and they had been in it long enough people just accepted how they were - ran into some of them in a local tourney as well had to call an official after getting broken 2x on "double faults" and breaking back.
My partner was ready to go ballistic, the official was almost more to give him time to chill than something to stop the hooking lmao.
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optic yellow
Legend
Exactly. There is a very strong difference between people doing so accidentally and people doing so intentionally, it is not too difficult to figure it out, and once you do figure it out you have to treat them very differently in order to resolve things in a way that is being fair to yourself.
Picture in the spoiler
I may need a new thread about how to react to bad line call arguers. Never really had it happen before, but it's happened like twice in the last two weeks. The real irony is that both of the opponents were pretty much carbon copies of each other. Neither had any weapons besides a decent first serve. The rest of their game was just to slice across the ball and bunt is short and hope I made a mistake.
The problem with their serve though is that it really wasn't that good. It's just that when they stepped both feet on the court at an angle it opened up a pretty wide serve angle. In the fourth game of my first set my opponent tries to hit one of those serves but misses wide. He obviously thought it was in but whatever it wasn't. A few points later he's down 30-40 and hits another wide serve and likewise misses. He just exploded that I was cheating him and he wasn't going to play me. The match was over and he was going to take the win because he was up 2-1. Spent like 10 minutes ranting before his captain yelled at him to either play or leave. Of course, he wanted to replay the point instead of it being his second serve. And was appalled that I would ask him to quit foot faulting if he wanted to argue the lines so much.
I was standing down the line because that was his only serve location and I could clearly see the ball miss wide. It was relatively early in the set so the balls were still fresh so it even left a mark. Of course then he wanted to argue it wasn't the right mark and it must have been from the high school girl's match before us. As if any of those girls were trying to paint the wide serve he was going for... I took a picture of it just because it was so comical he was getting so upset over a clear out ball.
It really sucked all the fun out of the match and I didn't even feel like playing. I think I'm almost done with league play and just going to play in one of those tennis league networks where people aren't so afraid of losing sans @Dylan E. Richards . The irony is my match in between these two opponents, the first thing my opponent said to me when we shook hands was, "Thanks for not being crappy on line calls." Then my captain took me to the side after that match and said I was playing too many out balls. So I know from third parties I'm not actively trying to hook anyone. I'm sure I do make mistakes at times, but these two opponents I was absolutely certain of my calls and they still wanted to argue.
I may need a new thread about how to react to bad line call arguers. Never really had it happen before, but it's happened like twice in the last two weeks. The real irony is that both of the opponents were pretty much carbon copies of each other. Neither had any weapons besides a decent first serve. The rest of their game was just to slice across the ball and bunt is short and hope I made a mistake.
The problem with their serve though is that it really wasn't that good. It's just that when they stepped both feet on the court at an angle it opened up a pretty wide serve angle. In the fourth game of my first set my opponent tries to hit one of those serves but misses wide. He obviously thought it was in but whatever it wasn't. A few points later he's down 30-40 and hits another wide serve and likewise misses. He just exploded that I was cheating him and he wasn't going to play me. The match was over and he was going to take the win because he was up 2-1. Spent like 10 minutes ranting before his captain yelled at him to either play or leave. Of course, he wanted to replay the point instead of it being his second serve. And was appalled that I would ask him to quit foot faulting if he wanted to argue the lines so much.
I was standing down the line because that was his only serve location and I could clearly see the ball miss wide. It was relatively early in the set so the balls were still fresh so it even left a mark. Of course then he wanted to argue it wasn't the right mark and it must have been from the high school girl's match before us. As if any of those girls were trying to paint the wide serve he was going for... I took a picture of it just because it was so comical he was getting so upset over a clear out ball.
It really sucked all the fun out of the match and I didn't even feel like playing. I think I'm almost done with league play and just going to play in one of those tennis league networks where people aren't so afraid of losing sans @Dylan E. Richards . The irony is my match in between these two opponents, the first thing my opponent said to me when we shook hands was, "Thanks for not being crappy on line calls." Then my captain took me to the side after that match and said I was playing too many out balls. So I know from third parties I'm not actively trying to hook anyone. I'm sure I do make mistakes at times, but these two opponents I was absolutely certain of my calls and they still wanted to argue.
Just give the guy the point.
I don't care if my opponent hits the back fence. If he starts arguing his shot was in, I just say "OK", call the score, and play the next point. I refuse to argue. It's rec tennis. It's supposed to be fun.
I played a match a few weeks ago in strong wind. Opponent hits a shot that is going wide. I call it out. Opponent stares at me. So I ask "Did you think it was in"? He says "I didn't say that, but the mark should still be there (very dirty hard court). Sure enough, it looks like there's no space and the ball did catch the very outside edge of the line.
So I tell him that it looks like it caught the line, point is his. He refuses to take the point. Says I called it out so I can have the point. I say that I looked at the mark and it's in, so it's his point. He refuses to take the point. Says if I want to win a point that badly, I can have it (remember, the ball was going out by a mile, but the wind held it in just enough to barely, barely catch the outside of the line).
So I say, OK, my point and call out the score. He never let's me forget that I hooked him for the entire match. He plays the martyr for the next hour+.
Good times.
So I tell him that it looks like it caught the line, point is his. He refuses to take the point. Says I called it out so I can have the point. I say that I looked at the mark and it's in, so it's his point. He refuses to take the point. Says if I want to win a point that badly, I can have it (remember, the ball was going out by a mile, but the wind held it in just enough to barely, barely catch the outside of the line).
So I say, OK, my point and call out the score. He never let's me forget that I hooked him for the entire match. He plays the martyr for the next hour+.
Good times.
The problem is that is exactly what he expected out of me. "Everyone else just replays the point! Those are the rules!"
This guy had a melt down tonight because people like you just didn't tell him his serves were out. So then I get ambushed because the guy just can't comprehend that his balls were actually out.
It's funny you think his actions were wrong but it's just the opposite end of the spectrum from your actions. The point is, tennis would be a lot more fun for everyone if both parties did their best to get calls right.
I think everyone does.
I don’t expect perfection from my opponents. If they miss a call (or just see it differently than me), I’m fine that. I never argue a call or in any way question my opponents call. But I also realize most people won’t back down. So I do. If my opponent starts to argue, he can have the point.
But I let people have their way most of the time. Makes life easier. Lots of people are looking for arguments these days. I’m looking for the opposite.
This isn’t mathematics or physics. You can’t derive right and wrong answers with certainty. When it comes to opinion, the biggest ego wins. And no self respecting man wants to lose a battle of egos. But I don’t care. Never have. It always drives other guys crazy. Because they want to win, but they don’t want to be handed the win. They want to win by overpowering their opponent. Not having their opponent shrug their shoulders and say they don’t care
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NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter
Rookie
Hell if I know.
Easier to get called out on it on clay though.
I don't really get to play all that much these days and in my experience it really isn't that big an issue but I mean if the balls leaves in unmistakable mark and I dunno, I'd tend to think it takes a little more balls to hook on clay but that's just me. I agree some crazy guy doesn't GAF but I dunno, I suppose some would feel a little more empowered to do it on hard court or maybe feel a little more comfortable calling close ones out on hard.
Now that I think about it there is a guy I play with socially/non-USTA who is an awful line caller. He's a lawyer/judge so I am not sure if that makes me think it's innocent and he just has bad eyes or he's a back stabbing shark. LOL.
optic yellow
Legend
Doing that doesn't make it fun.
People suck.Picture in the spoiler
I may need a new thread about how to react to bad line call arguers. Never really had it happen before, but it's happened like twice in the last two weeks. The real irony is that both of the opponents were pretty much carbon copies of each other. Neither had any weapons besides a decent first serve. The rest of their game was just to slice across the ball and bunt is short and hope I made a mistake.
The problem with their serve though is that it really wasn't that good. It's just that when they stepped both feet on the court at an angle it opened up a pretty wide serve angle. In the fourth game of my first set my opponent tries to hit one of those serves but misses wide. He obviously thought it was in but whatever it wasn't. A few points later he's down 30-40 and hits another wide serve and likewise misses. He just exploded that I was cheating him and he wasn't going to play me. The match was over and he was going to take the win because he was up 2-1. Spent like 10 minutes ranting before his captain yelled at him to either play or leave. Of course, he wanted to replay the point instead of it being his second serve. And was appalled that I would ask him to quit foot faulting if he wanted to argue the lines so much.
I was standing down the line because that was his only serve location and I could clearly see the ball miss wide. It was relatively early in the set so the balls were still fresh so it even left a mark. Of course then he wanted to argue it wasn't the right mark and it must have been from the high school girl's match before us. As if any of those girls were trying to paint the wide serve he was going for... I took a picture of it just because it was so comical he was getting so upset over a clear out ball.
It really sucked all the fun out of the match and I didn't even feel like playing. I think I'm almost done with league play and just going to play in one of those tennis league networks where people aren't so afraid of losing sans @Dylan E. Richards . The irony is my match in between these two opponents, the first thing my opponent said to me when we shook hands was, "Thanks for not being crappy on line calls." Then my captain took me to the side after that match and said I was playing too many out balls. So I know from third parties I'm not actively trying to hook anyone. I'm sure I do make mistakes at times, but these two opponents I was absolutely certain of my calls and they still wanted to argue.
I would firmly tell him I clearly saw the ball out. If he kept on arguing I would tell him I am positive it was out and I don’t cheat. If he was still being a dick I would tell him it’s my call, it doesn’t matter what you say, the ball is out.
He said he was going to walk off court? Wouldn’t he lose the match even if he was winning? If he was so immature to do that I would happily take the win and he done with him. I would be bummed I didn’t get a full match but happy to be off the court and not be playing a lunatic.
Arguing over line calls isn't fun either
There is no perfect solution to this. My hope is always that my opponent also realizes that it isn't fun to win this way. And you'd be surprised how often it happens like this. If you don't "engage" with your opponent at this level, the fight goes out of most people pretty fast.
In fact what normally happens is my opponent tries to "out nice" me. It doesn't always happen. But it happens pretty often. Then we both get to play a really fun match in good spirit. A true "gentleman's game" if you will. But this won't happen if you argue every line call. And sometimes you have to give up points to get this to happen. It's worth it to me.
optic yellow
Legend
I mean if I'm not having fun playing tennis because someone is hooking me intentionally then playing a game of retaliation is how I salvage deriving enjoyment out of the match. I agree with what you are saying about trying to get things cordial which is why I will not escalate right away (I have a lot of success doing this with hostile flame talk in online games) but at some point if someone's not taking the olive branch you just have to start speaking to them in terms they'll understand.
peRFecto
Rookie
Lol and that even on clay...
Offtopic: First time I've seen someone play with an adidas racket! I have that exact racket laying around and I've been wanting to string it up so I can try it. What do you string it with?
E.T.
Rookie
I don’t bother trying to argue with people anymore. I call the lines honestly and if they start hooking me on close calls, especially on game points, I just return the favor and tighten up on my line calls as well. I’ve noticed that people who call anything close “out” don’t get mad when I do the same, they seem to expect that lines are going to be called that way in USTA so everything evens out.
You are the absolute worse type of player: you called a ball out that was in (not abiding by the gentleman's 99% out in 100% in) and then was self-righteous about your own errant call. My the tennis community is full of zome zaney characters. You have no credibility on the court.
I understand completely
This is the normal case. As I've said many times, I play lots of out balls. I overturn any call my opponent questions. I never question my opponents call.
But I also know that even if I do that 99 times, the only thing anyone will remember is that I called this ball "out" that caught the edge of the line. And even though I tried to give him the point, I'm still the "absolute worst type of player". Because apparently trying to give him the point and correct the call is bein "self righteous". In this case I just realized he wanted to be a "tennis martyr", so I let him be one. I'm sure he told all his buddies about the horrible guy he played that hooked him. That's fine. It's the story he wanted to tell. So I let him tell it. I took the point. In the end he was "happy". He "exposed" me as the cheater I am. And I get to serve as his example of all the "zaney characters" he has to deal with. I'm fine with that.
The funny thing is, for you I'm the worst type of player because I called this ball out. For others I'm the worst player for letting my opponent walk all over me in the other 99 cases.
I understand all of this. I'm fine with it. I just nod my head and smile and agree with everyone about everything.
As such, I'm indeed the absolute worst type player. I did not abide by the 99% out 100% in. You are correct.
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It's not personal bro, but players should just play balls that are on or close to the line..we are not pros....this is not a game of inches with us. Sorry for busting your chops, but i would rather play a cheater and respond aggressively than get all nasty with a dude who generally is confused...as I have said ad nauseum, most people cant see and just guess in their own favor...
It's all good bro
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