How to train the back scratch on serve

FireSon

New User
Are there any specific training drills to get a proper back scratch? This week I videotaped my service and it was very obvious that I do not have a back scratch. So when I went out the next day to do it again during warmup I was fine but once I really started to serve the backscratch was gone! Although it was better than the day before, I could not get it right.
Basically what happens that when I train my service without a ball I am OK, once the ball comes into play, my shoulder stiffens and I cannot get it right.

So what I hope to find are some drills, or maybe tips, to improve it.

Thanks!
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
FireSon said:
Are there any specific training drills to get a proper back scratch? This week I videotaped my service and it was very obvious that I do not have a back scratch. So when I went out the next day to do it again during warmup I was fine but once I really started to serve the backscratch was gone! Although it was better than the day before, I could not get it right.
Basically what happens that when I train my service without a ball I am OK, once the ball comes into play, my shoulder stiffens and I cannot get it right.

So what I hope to find are some drills, or maybe tips, to improve it.

Thanks!
Keep your wrist and arm loose and let the racquet drop to below your shoulder blades. Many times, people think they have a backscratch when they really don't and there are times when people think they don't have enough of a bs and they overemphasize it, hurting their serves. One of my playing partners, who is very dense btw, swears that he has a good bs and that I have none because of my fast whip. I showed him video proof that my backscratch goes way down and videotape showed that he brings his racquet head no lower than his neck. Don't be like Raul and keep watching yourself on video because to an untrained eye like Raul's, you can fool yourself into thinking your form is decent. BTW, some posters will claim that the backscratch should come naturally and that you should just "let it happen". I say think about what you're doing and consciously backscratch or you'll wind up like Raul with one of those less than a waiter's wrist backscratch serves.
 

FireSon

New User
Thanks, did you're hitting partner improve his backscratch after he was confronted with the evidence? I always thought I used a proper technique :-( It is really hard to change something you have grown accustomed to over a long period of time...
 

Amone

Hall of Fame
It's been demonstrated-- and if it hasn't, I'll take up the job-- that the backscratch isn't actually necessary. Just helpful. Consider Pernfors, who might not have the best serve, but didn't have the worst either-- his take-back pointed straight up.

However, what it should be driven by is your elbow's upward thrust, while not moving your wrist. That helps the tip to feel the desire to 'catch up,' and increases the whipping motion. So what you want to do is rotate your shoulders without really moving your arm for a few moments. Then, your arm's natural inclination is to motion as one scratching their back. At least, that's how it seems to me. Possibly, this is a load of bullocks.
 

fishuuuuu

Hall of Fame
I'm pretty sure the backscratch helps you gain more momentum and racquet-headspeed into your serve, so I'd say it's pretty necessary.

My doubles partner told me to keep my hitting arm lower in the trophy stance, and that helped my backscratch become more fluid and subsequently faster and deeper.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
FireSon said:
Thanks, did you're hitting partner improve his backscratch after he was confronted with the evidence? I always thought I used a proper technique :-( It is really hard to change something you have grown accustomed to over a long period of time...
Actually, it was a reality check for me too the first time we took video of our serves. I felt like I had a light backscratch because of the slight whipping motion, but after watching the video, I saw that the racquet head was coming down to the lower part of my head. I was so disgusted with myself that I forced myself to bring the racquet down, first in slow motion, then in actual application. The next time my friend, not Raul, took video of my serve, which was about a year later, there was no question I had developed a real backscratch, but Raul's serve remained horrifically similar to the previous year and no, Raul still doesn't realize that he has almost no backscratch at all and even claims that his backscratch is lower than mine. Want to know how untrained Raul's eyes are? Raul claims that Roddick uses no backscratch. Now that's an untrained eye!
 

Fred132

Rookie
A deep racquet drop is the single biggest factor in generating pace (and spin, for that matter) on my serve.

I'm with you, Fireson -- I would be interested in ANY technique to further develop this trait and make it more consistent.
 

Rickson

G.O.A.T.
Fred132 said:
A deep racquet drop is the single biggest factor in generating pace (and spin, for that matter) on my serve.

I'm with you, Fireson -- I would be interested in ANY technique to further develop this trait and make it more consistent.
Do what I did. Practice the form in slow motion because you'll obviously be able to do it then. Increase your speed as you keep practicing and keep doing this until your practice swing is as fast as your regular serve swing. Next, start hitting balls, but if your timing is off at first, don't worry and keep practicing until you make clean contact. You'll be forced to serve with a backscratch if you practice enough shadow swings because the form will be ingrained into memory.
 

ZPTennis

Semi-Pro
Yep. There are quite a few people where the videotape doesn't appear to show the bs on the serve and you can only really see it when the serve is put on slow motion in the video.
 

Tim Tennis

Professional
grip and rip

The back scratch is simply a term the old teaching pros used years ago to try to get people to load their triceps and it is a good one. Your triceps can generate tremendous racquet head speed. If coordinated with another part of your arm which I am not going to mention because the "concept police", crones, and sheep will jump all over it, you can pound the hell out of the ball.

A great drill that I recommend all the time is to stand a couple of feet behind the base line and just try to knock the hell out of the ball in a straight line all the way to the fence. Don't be judgmental, just rip it. Feel the power you can generate, oh baby, you got to love it. If you can hit the fense or even get close to it you are crunching it. Now think, wow what if I can control this power, put a little topspin on it and draw it in the box. You have to practice, experiment have fun. Get outside the box, don't limit yourself.

Thanks, You got to love the game. You have got to believe in yourself.

Ed

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com/
 

TENNIS_99

Semi-Pro
FireSon said:
Are there any specific training drills to get a proper back scratch? This week I videotaped my service and it was very obvious that I do not have a back scratch. So when I went out the next day to do it again during warmup I was fine but once I really started to serve the backscratch was gone! Although it was better than the day before, I could not get it right.
Basically what happens that when I train my service without a ball I am OK, once the ball comes into play, my shoulder stiffens and I cannot get it right.

So what I hope to find are some drills, or maybe tips, to improve it.

Thanks!

Like you said, shoulder stiffness seeems to be the problem. I do not focus too much on back scratch position, I more like it to happen naturally. I focus more on how to make my shoulder relax. To me, keep my tossing arm up as long as possible and fire from the hip is the key. If I drop my tossing up too soon, my shoulder will get tense and try to catch up. If you really want back scratch be part of serve motion, try the old drill - start you hitting arm in bs postions to serve, good luck
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Rickson said:
Do what I did. Practice the form in slow motion because you'll obviously be able to do it then. Increase your speed as you keep practicing and keep doing this until your practice swing is as fast as your regular serve swing. Next, start hitting balls, but if your timing is off at first, don't worry and keep practicing until you make clean contact. You'll be forced to serve with a backscratch if you practice enough shadow swings because the form will be ingrained into memory.


Out of all that is said on here this is the most simplest and most correct, thus making it the best.

The real problem here is building the motor skills/muscle memory/coordination.

This is how I practice a lot of my shots with no ball
 

FireSon

New User
Training in progress

Thanks for the tips!

I found a slowmotion serve on the internet which comes close to my own and I try to copy that(when hopefully nobody is watching:)). Furthermore I keep using my camcorder and compare my serve to the one in slowmotion. Alltogether I think all these modifications will probably put my game off for the next month(s) buf hopefully it will pay off! :)

On the website http://www.hi-techtennis.com/account/your_strokes/serve.php/ I also found a nice analysis of a serve. Helped me for my serve as well!
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Good for you, that is the thing is that it will be taking steps back but then many steps forward.

For me personally I don't want to end up like those old people that have crazy wind up serves and other strokes where you can see they stoped progressing:)
 

Totoro

New User
The quickest method I use for teaching the backscratch is tying 2 knots at the end of a beach towel and have the player practicing swinging the "infinite" or "figure 8" motion around their body while controlling the core. It seems to be helpful in developing fluidity and core strength.
 

Fred132

Rookie
"For me personally I don't want to end up like those old people that have crazy wind up serves and other strokes where you can see they stoped progressing"

LOL! You don't have to be "old" to stop progressing.
 

emcee

Semi-Pro
My brother has the same problem. And I also did not think that I backscratched but after seeing a video taped serve of mine I found out that I did. I have no idea how fast my serves were at the time, but I was hitting them pretty hard. I thought I was getting a good knee bend and whatnot, but when I looked at the vid, I found out that I hardly bent at all.

Yeah so a backscratch can lead to monstrous head speed = power + spin on serves.

Just practice throwing a baseball or football while in front of a mirror. Do you do the backscratch? You should. Then just practice that throwing motion over and over again until your muscles remember it!
 

FireSon

New User
Work in progress

Well today I played my first official match since I started my "serve project", exactly a week ago. We were lucky, because of rain we could play indoors! Not hampered by the wind I was trying to put my practice into play and it went suprisingly well :)

I have practiced every day and videotaped my swing and compared it to the one I am trying to imitate and I have found some 'reference points' which I was able to remember during the match. Man that feels good! I never knew I could generate that much speed and spin!

Wow sometimes I really like tennis ;-)
 

fastdunn

Legend
I thought "back scratch" is very old school thing.
Vic bradenalready disputed against it in 80's as I know.
Sampras serving motion often showed as an example
of more modern "scratch your neighbor" instead of
"scratch your back".
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
fastdunn said:
I thought "back scratch" is very old school thing.
Vic bradenalready disputed against it in 80's as I know.
Sampras serving motion often showed as an example
of more modern "scratch your neighbor" instead of
"scratch your back".


He's right about this,


also we see the scratch your crotch and scratch your butt via Nadal:p
 
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