How to transfer your best Service skills from training into the match (for 15yo)

[dainova]

Hi,
My 14 yo, 5'11" son has problem to transfer his service into the the real match, especially for 2nd one.
He knows all theory after working with his pro, has correct form, understand all concepts of prona-/rotation, wrist snap, charging foot, etc.. can execute change direction wide/down OK.
In practice he has 60% on first one, doing max speed flat style with very tight 2" net clearance. And about 80% for 2nd kick style.

But In match especially with one super intelligent 50yo player he does 30% of his Roddick's serve and then ~20 mph of second. He literally can not move his arm fast enough on 2nd.
I understand that it all mental , told him "Try to play your game, don't let that 50yo guy get into your brain"

I drive him to do more slow reliable service in practice and get rid of concept of 1 and 2nd during this practice. Appreciate you feedback and suggestions.

Thanks
Dai

 

[ServeBot]

Sounds like he is terrified of missing and slows down. Very common. He needs to loosen up and play without the fear of missing.

 

[AnyPUG]

It's frustrating isn'it? I would continue to put him in uncomfortable situations until he breaks out of his shell. Trial and error various approaches for something that resonates with him and realizes it's our duty to play to win and not to play to delay defeat.

 

[PKorda]

I'd have him switch from kick to more of a topspin slice. It's a more natural swing and it's easier to build confidence. Maybe down the line he can move to a kick.

 

[travlerajm]

It’s not easy to play against experienced crafty 50yo opponents. The better ones know Jedi mind tricks that throw you off.

If in practice he is serving 2” flat bombs, that’s not the way he should be practicing. He should be aiming for a first serve that clears the net with 2 feet of margin above the net and some spin.

My suggestion is that he start practicing a hard aggrsssive kick serve as his first serve. Focus on owning this serve.
Trust me on this. This is the key to early success in high school. I was once a 5’11” 14yo beginner practicing serves on my own. 3 years later I rode a solid aggressive kick serve to 3rd place in the state high school tournament.

35 years later, my serve is declined, but I’m better at punking high school students with Jedi mind tricks.

 

[dainova]

Thanks all guys for leads and support. We will continue our matches with his nemesis-). After each training session with Pro he is so confident and looking finally to kick a.. in the match..
@PKorda , Ahoj. Thanks for topspin slice. For now to make it simple we only use flat/kick terminology. Will try to convert his 1st one into topspin/slice like you did for Sebastian -).
Thanks @travlerajm !! for Focus on owning this serve , ... with 2 feet of margin


Will keep you posting on our progress.

Best + Thanks
Dai

 

[dainova]

Posting video, will appreciate your comments

 

[pencilcheck]

Posting video, will appreciate your comments

did you add the video effects? that's hilarious and fun.

if I were you, this will be how I would tell him:
1. don't move around so much, jumping around will make it harder to replicate success, you want to be able to hit serve without moving your reference like crazy
2. start by contacting the ball with open racquet face (from his point of view, not your point of view, he tosses his ball in front, so from his point of view opening racquet face cancels out to be a more neutral racquet face), if that works stick with it. since before your son truly understand serve, it is better to replicate success.

 

[nyta2]

Hi,
My 14 yo, 5'11" son has problem to transfer his service into the the real match, especially for 2nd one.
He knows all theory after working with his pro, has correct form, understand all concepts of prona-/rotation, wrist snap, charging foot, etc.. can execute change direction wide/down OK.
In practice he has 60% on first one, doing max speed flat style with very tight 2" net clearance. And about 80% for 2nd kick style.

But In match especially with one super intelligent 50yo player he does 30% of his Roddick's serve and then ~20 mph of second. He literally can not move his arm fast enough on 2nd.
I understand that it all mental , told him "Try to play your game, don't let that 50yo guy get into your brain"

I drive him to do more slow reliable service in practice and get rid of concept of 1 and 2nd during this practice. Appreciate you feedback and suggestions.

Thanks
Dai

guessing tension in his arm...
i know when i get tense/anxious, i end up arming the ball, vs. throwing the racquet at the ball (so i can really allow the flexion & ulnar deviation of the wrist to happen - eg. "slam dunking" motion of the wrist through contact)

 

[dainova]

Thanks Pencil and Nyta, yes we did some fun editing with Photo, our first experience. Thanks for your input.

 

[Friedman Whip]

That looks like an Eastern Forehand grip to me. He makes it work pretty well by doing so many other things right but for long term I would definitely encourage changing that. Félix Auger-Aliassime makes that grip work but he is the only top player that comes to my mind that does.

 

[fuzz nation]

Your son looks like he's doing great!! The fundamental drive through his legs and torso push both upward and forward toward his target. He's going to have a very potent and reliable serve very soon.

My very first thought after watching your son hit a few different serves in that video (thanks for posting!!) is to recommend that he gets used to swinging over the top with about the same speed and tempo for every sort of serve he's trying to produce. What makes the ball go fast? Racquet speed. What generates spin on the ball? Racquet speed. He will want to eventually use almost the same full motion to hit every type of serve he wants in his tennis toolbox.

If you watch the pros on TV or even higher level players in your area when they're serving, their first and second serves are nearly the same move and the same full effort. The swing path and contact point will vary depending on the sort of serve that player wants to generate, but they don't slow down to guide a "patty-cake" sort of serve with minimal pace and zero spin like lower level players often do with at least their second serves. Your son's faster serve motions look comfortable and consistent enough that I'd encourage him to use that tempo for everything.

From the side view, it's easy to spot how his follow through can sometimes get a little bit short. If I was on the court with him to help with small adjustments, I'd absolutely encourage him to follow through so that his racquet finishes down by his left hip instead of sometimes out in front of his body either at or above waist height. Way too easy for the racquet to slow down too early and give away energy at contact when that happens.

When your son is playing matches, he needs to change his priorities and sort of lose on purpose. I'm not saying that he has to actually lose, but that he needs to mentally change his priorities so that the most important thing over the short term is trusting his full serve 100% when he's playing points. Instead of compromising everything just to guide a slow serve into the box, he needs to completely go with the spin serves and faster flat serves that he's working on using all the time. Let go of that slower half-speed serve motion - it won't help him going forward.

I don't think there's any other way to really learn to trust these serves unless you fully commit to them - even if he's going to double fault more often for a little while. Just keep the long term plan in mind and he'll be there before he knows it

 

[eah123]

Thanks for posting this, as my daughter is going through the exact same thing right now. I think it's very common for juniors to tense up during a match, lose confidence in their serve, and freeze up mentally. It happens to adults too, but life experience probably helps with us getting over it.

My advice is similar to what others have said already, but slightly different.

The key to being confident in your 1st serve in a match is being confident in your 2nd serve.

For the kick serve, it's important to always use close to 100% racquet head speed, same as the flat serve.

But there's also a difference with how hard a kick serve can be hit. I tell me daughter she needs to control this by how much body weight is transferred forward. Visually, this is based on how deep she lands on her left foot in the court.

Normally, when she is confident in her kick serve, she should be aiming for 80% hard, which should result in landing about 1 foot in the court, and the ball landing around 1 foot from the service line.

When she is less confident in her kick serve, she should aiming for 40%-60% hard. This should result in landing about 1/2 foot in the court, and the ball landing close to the middle of the box. Still, 100% racquet head speed (always).

During serve practice, I will have her hit kick serves from the basket, and call out "deep!" or "shallow!", and she will have to hit the appropriate kick serve hardness. This way, she learns how to modulate her kick serve without slowing down her racquet.

During a match, a good way to start is by hitting 80% kick serves as 1st serves and 60% kick serves as 2nd serves. Once she is getting close to 100% 1st serves in, then she starts hitting flat serves as 1st serves and 80% kick serves as 2nd serves. If at any time she double faults, she goes to 80% kick serve first serve on the next point, and 60% kick second serve. If a second serve is not needed, she can go back to flat 1st serve and 80% kick second serve.

Being mentally prepared with a plan for the normal changes in "serve confidence" that happen in a match to almost everyone is a big advantage.

 

[safinruslan]

i would drag your attention to:
1. open racket at the beginning
2. bending his knees and then straightening while tossing then again bending

but despite the racket being opened at the beginning of the serve he manages to make pronation, that's good!

 

[Chas Tennis]

Thanks for posting this, as my daughter is going through the exact same thing right now. I think it's very common for juniors to tense up during a match, lose confidence in their serve, and freeze up mentally. It happens to adults too, but life experience probably helps with us getting over it.

My advice is similar to what others have said already, but slightly different.

The key to being confident in your 1st serve in a match is being confident in your 2nd serve.

For the kick serve, it's important to always use close to 100% racquet head speed, same as the flat serve.

But there's also a difference with how hard a kick serve can be hit. I tell me daughter she needs to control this by how much body weight is transferred forward. Visually, this is based on how deep she lands on her left foot in the court.

Normally, when she is confident in her kick serve, she should be aiming for 80% hard, which should result in landing about 1 foot in the court, and the ball landing around 1 foot from the service line.

When she is less confident in her kick serve, she should aiming for 40%-60% hard. This should result in landing about 1/2 foot in the court, and the ball landing close to the middle of the box. Still, 100% racquet head speed (always).

During serve practice, I will have her hit kick serves from the basket, and call out "deep!" or "shallow!", and she will have to hit the appropriate kick serve hardness. This way, she learns how to modulate her kick serve without slowing down her racquet.

During a match, a good way to start is by hitting 80% kick serves as 1st serves and 60% kick serves as 2nd serves. Once she is getting close to 100% 1st serves in, then she starts hitting flat serves as 1st serves and 80% kick serves as 2nd serves. If at any time she double faults, she goes to 80% kick serve first serve on the next point, and 60% kick second serve. If a second serve is not needed, she can go back to flat 1st serve and 80% kick second serve.

Being mentally prepared with a plan for the normal changes in "serve confidence" that happen in a match to almost everyone is a big advantage.

Forum Search the thread -
Junior Twist Serve

1st confirm that she might have a kick serve with the racket still going up after impact is over. You need clear (little motion blur) high speed videos with frame rate about 240 fps to see serve details.

There is an issue that is rarely discussed. See the closed racket face as on the Stosur kick serve impact. The racket face should be closed by 13-15 degrees before impact. That is when viewed by the side camera. I've posted on this issue and the Junior Twist Serve has information

There are some safety considerations for the angle of the upper arm to the shoulder joint. Search: Ellenbecker shoulder joint impingenent.