How to volley

1

10sbeast888

Professional
gonna use this thread to teach the volley. so all folks with bad volleys can fix it once and for all.


Oscar W already gave some key points here -

- independent hand movement. it does not depend on body movement, especially the lower body - need to bust the 'volley with the feet' - bad concept.

@user92626
you asked the question on wide volleys...

the key is - besides the independent hand movement, the hand needs to supply it's own power.

the ball bounce drill - do this in your back yard - conti grip. use the fh side to keep bouncing the ball up 6 feet or so in the air. as the ball is in the air, relax the grip pressure to 2 out of 10, just enough so the head doesn't drop. as the ball falls and about to make contact, squeeze the handle to a pressure of 4/10, this should allow you to keep the ball bouncing 6 ft up. the arm doesn't supply any power, it just helps the hand to reach the ball and allow the hand to squeeze the handle... very important - do not engage the biceps or the shoulder to push the racket up. squeeze the hand only.

now do this drill with the bh side.

now do this against the garage door - you should be able to volley 30-50 balls in a row after some practice.

the off hand should help the throat area when time allows, to give the hitting hand some relief so it doesn't tire.

from this drill you will understand why 'punching with a firm wrist out in front' is a triple-bad idea
- firm wrist - bad idea. you want to move around and prep with 2/10 pressure, and only squeeze to 4/10 for angle short volleys, and 7/10 for deep ones. if you begin with firm wrist you have no hand power, will be forced to use the arm, which leads to..
- punch - bad idea#2... it induces students to use the arm to supply power, which throws you off balance, and impossible to reach wide balls and still hit with penetration
- out in front - this can be helpful for some beginners preping the racket on the side... but if you have a basic samurai stance prep then don't worry about it.

That's it. this should fix 80% of the problems.

later on I will cover other aspects - the difference between the first and 2nd volleys, equipment and what role the arm actually plays.
 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
10sbeast888 said:
gonna use this thread to teach the volley. so all folks with bad volleys can fix it once and for all.


Oscar W already gave some key points here -

- independent hand movement. it does not depend on body movement, especially the lower body - need to bust the 'volley with the feet' - bad concept.

@user92626
you asked the question on wide volleys...

the key is - besides the independent hand movement, the hand needs to supply it's own power.

the ball bounce drill - do this in your back yard - conti grip. use the fh side to keep bouncing the ball up 6 feet or so in the air. as the ball is in the air, relax the grip pressure to 2 out of 10, just enough so the head doesn't drop. as the ball falls and about to make contact, squeeze the handle to a pressure of 4/10, this should allow you to keep the ball bouncing 6 ft up. the arm doesn't supply any power, it just helps the hand to reach the ball and allow the hand to squeeze the handle... very important - do not engage the biceps or the shoulder to push the racket up. squeeze the hand only.

now do this drill with the bh side.

now do this against the garage door - you should be able to volley 30-50 balls in a row after some practice.

the off hand should help the throat area when time allows, to give the hitting hand some relief so it doesn't tire.

from this drill you will understand why 'punching with a firm wrist out in front' is a triple-bad idea
- firm wrist - bad idea. you want to move around and prep with 2/10 pressure, and only squeeze to 4/10 for angle short volleys, and 7/10 for deep ones. if you begin with firm wrist you have no hand power, will be forced to use the arm, which leads to..
- punch - bad idea#2... it induces students to use the arm to supply power, which throws you off balance, and impossible to reach wide balls and still hit with penetration
- out in front - this can be helpful for some beginners preping the racket on the side... but if you have a basic samurai stance prep then don't worry about it.

That's it. this should fix 80% of the problems.

later on I will cover other aspects - the difference between the first and 2nd volleys, equipment and what role the arm actually plays.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you are not misinterpreting what “volley with the feet” and “firm wrist” mean.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
ballmachineguy said:
Are you sure you are not misinterpreting what “volley with the feet” and “firm wrist” mean.
Click to expand...

Oscar's partner in the video demo'ed wide spread teaching out there... step in blah blah.


and this 'firm wrist' thing is wide spread too. the way she teaches it... your dead in the water when the pass is wide... exactly the problem @user92626 had.

there is also anecdotal evidence...

I mean go to your local clubs, this type of teach is common.

used to have this partner, great player, well trained when he was young.. he was amazed by how smooth my volleys are and started ask questions like 'do you grip firm'... smart dude... working for MSFT now.

you know what the problem is.... say the girl in the above video is a good player... I don't know.. maybe she figured out the right way to do it is how I describe it... but because she was taught with firm wrist punch in front, now she is spreading misinformation.

so all the 3.5 4.0 guys try to do the same and wonder why their volleys are garbage lol.
 
Last edited:
Steady Eddy

Steady Eddy

Legend
I think a big part of why 3.5 and 4.0 players almost think that volleys are a 'trick' shot is because they don't practice it. When I warm up, I take some at the net. To be polite I ask my opponent if he want some at the net, usually they say no. That's not much practice, but it's something. How can they get better at it if they don't practice it? Then, since their volley is poor they stay away from the net, so get even less experience with the shot.

Don't worry about how you do it. Just do it. You'll be bound to improve, and volleying is one of the better pleasures of the game.
 
P

PKorda

Professional
Steady Eddy said:
I think a big part of why 3.5 and 4.0 players almost think that volleys are a 'trick' shot is because they don't practice it. When I warm up, I take some at the net. To be polite I ask my opponent if he want some at the net, usually they say no. That's not much practice, but it's something. How can they get better at it if they don't practice it? Then, since their volley is poor they stay away from the net, so get even less experience with the shot.

Don't worry about how you do it. Just do it. You'll be bound to improve, and volleying is one of the better pleasures of the game.
Click to expand...
This is the problem with all levels but agree more so with lower level players, people just don't practice volleying. If you're volley sucks you're a little embarrassed to practice it, and also w/ lower level players the player on the other side may have hard time hitting the ball so it can be volleyed consistently. But even higher level, can go out and hit for a couple hours and spend maybe 10 minutes on volleying. Using a wall can help, while obv. a wall doesn't come close to duplicating hitting a volley from an opponent what it does do is allow you hit lots of volleys.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
maybe a little chicken and egg.

'just do it' only can go so far. evidenced by the bad volleys in USTA doubles, who practice more.

need good information first, which is what this thread tries to do. players should see immediate improvement after being able to volley 30-50 balls on the wall.... most recs can't even do 5 balls. 'first wrist punch in front' also generates too much underspin.. you hit against the wall the ball bounces downward to the ground.

player will understand - volley is the lowest hanging fruit. it solves so many problems besides itself. it reduces workload, it actually alleviate bad days at the baseline as the 'catch and squeeze' never fails.. also allows you to enjoy a hit in bad conditions - windy, wet so on.
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
10sbeast888 said:
gonna use this thread to teach the volley. so all folks with bad volleys can fix it once and for all.


Oscar W already gave some key points here -

- independent hand movement. it does not depend on body movement, especially the lower body - need to bust the 'volley with the feet' - bad concept.

@user92626
you asked the question on wide volleys...

the key is - besides the independent hand movement, the hand needs to supply it's own power.

the ball bounce drill - do this in your back yard - conti grip. use the fh side to keep bouncing the ball up 6 feet or so in the air. as the ball is in the air, relax the grip pressure to 2 out of 10, just enough so the head doesn't drop. as the ball falls and about to make contact, squeeze the handle to a pressure of 4/10, this should allow you to keep the ball bouncing 6 ft up. the arm doesn't supply any power, it just helps the hand to reach the ball and allow the hand to squeeze the handle... very important - do not engage the biceps or the shoulder to push the racket up. squeeze the hand only.

now do this drill with the bh side.

now do this against the garage door - you should be able to volley 30-50 balls in a row after some practice.

the off hand should help the throat area when time allows, to give the hitting hand some relief so it doesn't tire.

from this drill you will understand why 'punching with a firm wrist out in front' is a triple-bad idea
- firm wrist - bad idea. you want to move around and prep with 2/10 pressure, and only squeeze to 4/10 for angle short volleys, and 7/10 for deep ones. if you begin with firm wrist you have no hand power, will be forced to use the arm, which leads to..
- punch - bad idea#2... it induces students to use the arm to supply power, which throws you off balance, and impossible to reach wide balls and still hit with penetration
- out in front - this can be helpful for some beginners preping the racket on the side... but if you have a basic samurai stance prep then don't worry about it.

That's it. this should fix 80% of the problems.

later on I will cover other aspects - the difference between the first and 2nd volleys, equipment and what role the arm actually plays.
Click to expand...

The practice, green part, looking good though I still need to somehow translate it to on court action.

Go on with the other aspects. Thx
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
user92626 said:
The practice, green part, looking good though I still need to somehow translate it to on court action.

Go on with the other aspects. Thx
Click to expand...
that's great! good volleys are so much fun.. as I said, you can now reduce work load, no need to run around the baseline all day. sometimes people have a bad day at the baseline you can just walk up to the net and enjoy the entire session up front.

during on court play -

if you already have the samurai stance, great, the left hand supports the neck and you can maintain the 1/10 grip pressure. otherwise try to develop this habit of using the off hand.

will likely need some time to get rid of the old habit, that's ok. guys I taught typically need about 20 - 40 hours to transition into this new way completely. sometimes the ball comes at you fast the old habit will tighten the grip immediately..... be aware of that. if your grip tightens too early, then there is no room to squeeze..... no hand power, then your forced to chop the arm again.

still post vids when you can. even just volleys against the wall.

that's about it for now... progress gradually.. after a few practice sessions I will go into

- first / second volleys;
- drop volleys;
- racket choice;
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Jono123 said:
Volleying is 90 % footwork.
Click to expand...

that's exactly the kind of old wife tale that keeps low amateurs from getting better. this thread is meant to help folks with this method. please keep the noise down...

there is already evidence that someone is improving based on this method.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Daniel Andrade said:
Show us your volleys.
Click to expand...

whipper snapper you snoozed and missed it lol.. I posted a few days ago.... why don't you fix your shyt volley with this method? try on the wall then the court, you will realize this is the real deal.

you saw Oscar's volleys and your gonna say that looks so mid and your gonna ignore him then?
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Daniel Andrade said:
your volleys are so bad you had to delete the video?

Sad.
Click to expand...

friend's vid.. not mine.

if you spend 1/2 the time fooling around here worrying about other people your own shyt game would be much better by now lol... I even offered to help you.. but your biting a feeding hand.. oh well.... tennis is lot more fun when you don't play like shyt ha.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Jono123 said:
When you consider volleying is a limited movement and forward weight distribution plays a significant role.

It will be a cold day in hell before this character posts a video.
Click to expand...

keep the noise down.

I invite people to play with me, multiple threads in travel...

zero interest in 'proving' my game to some random bozo's ... people are already improving based on this method.

you can try it and improve, or you can leave.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Happi said:
Sure, but forward weight distribution is not then same as volley is 90% footwork.
Click to expand...

just tell the student to have balance.

'forward weight' is not even a correct concept.. player can lock up the hips and unable to cover wide balls. in a reflex situation. watch how soccer goalies make a save on a very close shot, they actually move backwards for the save.... bottom line is being neutral to move in all directions.

the ball doesn't care about the footwork, it only cares about the contact.

that's why I am asking people to keep the noise down..

I have seen coaches and their students on the 90% footwork wagon.. volleys are ok, but nothing great.
 
Jono123

Jono123

Professional
It's the simple concept of forward momentum and subsequent weight transfer due to correct footwork requiring minimal effort yet resulting in extensive put away power.

I think you're describing 3.5 tennis :unsure:
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Jono123 said:
It's the simple concept of forward momentum and subsequent weight transfer due to correct footwork requiring minimal effort yet resulting in extensive put away power.

I think you're describing 3.5 tennis :unsure:
Click to expand...

since this bozo refuses to shut up..

info for all those who want to improve - this is actually perfect example of 'how NOT to volley'.

weight transfer sounds good on paper. until you actually play on the court gets a wide ball have to move sideways and nothing going foward and you have nothing on the shot, exactly the question @user92626 asked and part of the reaosn I started this thread.

already said. the hand needs to supply its own power.

in the Oscar video they already demo'ed how not to volley lol... draw a triangle on the ground and step into it.

and here you have a perfect bozo who doesn't know what he doesn't know and keep presenting himself as the perfect example of 'how not to volley', and 'how to get tied up on the court'.
 
Jono123

Jono123

Professional
Can you not pivot diagonally or run laterally if you get a wide ball? You sound like you play like a plank.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If you are volleying against shots from the baseline or if you have a lot of time, your footwork on a drive volley would involve moving forward or doing active weight transfer while turning sideways in addition to the proper swing/arm motion. If you are volleying with another net player or are pressed for time against a hard shot, you would do what you can with your arm and feet/body to hit a good shot with the right arm position/short swing being more critical. Even on wide volleys, the way you position your feet/body would depend on how much time you have.

Anyone who coaches players in real life would understand these distinctions and not be arguing about a one size fits all approach to volleying. The video in the OP seems to be oriented towards two players at the net volleying against each other where they are pressed for time. If one of them is at the baseline as often happens in 1-back rec doubles or in singles, the conversation would have been different. In all shots, coaches might teach fundamentals of how to hit the shot when the player has time and is balanced - it is understood that when you don’t have time, you have to improvise mostly with the arm and there might be general tips pointed out for that also which work better than others. We should not confuse coaching of fundamental shots when a player has time with the best ways to improvise when a player doesn’t have time.

I tried to stay out of this thread, but it is descending into chaos. This whole tips section seems to have devolved into guys arguing constantly that one way of hitting any particular shot is better than all other ways and it seems to posted by consumers of Internet coaching rather than heavy contributions by coaches who develop players in real life. Real life coaches teach basic fundamentals mostly related to footwork/body and allow a lot of variation in swings as long as it is one of the accepted textbook ways to swing. On each shot, the textbook has kept evolving over the last 50 years with equipment/surface changes and for adult rec players, many swing types work fine. If they look like or try to copy a Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Djokovic, Federer, Sinner or Alcaraz, their shots would be fine as long as they are following all the fundamentals. But probably coaches would not recommend copying the swing of Medvedev who is very unconventional and pulls it off with his talent plus the fact that his footwork/body positioning is fundamentally sound.
 
Last edited:
F

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
10sbeast888 said:
since this bozo refuses to shut up..

info for all those who want to improve - this is actually perfect example of 'how NOT to volley'.

weight transfer sounds good on paper. until you actually play on the court gets a wide ball have to move sideways and nothing going foward and you have nothing on the shot, exactly the question @user92626 asked and part of the reaosn I started this thread.

already said. the hand needs to supply its own power.

in the Oscar video they already demo'ed how not to volley lol... draw a triangle on the ground and step into it.

and here you have a perfect bozo who doesn't know what he doesn't know and keep presenting himself as the perfect example of 'how not to volley', and 'how to get tied up on the court'.
Click to expand...
Regardless of what I may or may not agree with in this thread, I'll only offer that in the world of tennis tips, the only advice that's just about 100% applicable to everybody is "keep your eye on the ball". Try to watch it through contact.

Offering sweeping generalizations about any particular point of tennis technique will never be universally right for everybody. I'm routinely humbled by this reality in my own pursuits with teaching and coaching. The very best teachers I've seen in action have been people who can combine a solid fundamental understanding of shot mechanics - NOT always the same for everybody - with a keen ability to offer the right idea to a particular "student" at the right moment. Great teachers are great communicators... but many great players absolutely stink at teaching.

The advice that one developing player needs for learning to hit better volleys will almost never be the same as what makes that mental light bulb turn on for somebody else. If you have what you think is a better approach to the idea of hitting good volleys, offer that up for consideration, but not as gospel. Maybe it will make the light turn on for somebody who didn't have any luck with another image or idea. That approach may also keep the critics and the noise a little more under control.

It sure can get noisy around here...
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
socallefty said:
If you are volleying against shots from the baseline or if you have a lot of time, your footwork on a drive volley would involve moving forward or doing active weight transfer while turning sideways in addition to the proper swing/arm motion. If you are volleying with another net player or are pressed for time against a hard shot, you would do what you can with your arm and feet/body to hit a good shot with the right arm position/short swing being more critical. Even on wide volleys, the way you position your feet/body would depend on how much time you have.

Anyone who coaches players in real life would understand these distinctions and not be arguing about a one size fits all approach to volleying. The video in the OP seems to be oriented towards two players at the net volleying against each other where they are pressed for time. If one of them is at the baseline as often happens in 1-back rec doubles or in singles, the conversation would have been different. In all shots, coaches might teach fundamentals of how to hit the shot when the player has time and is balanced - it is understood that when you don’t have time, you have to improvise mostly with the arm and there might be general tips pointed out for that also which work better than others. We should not confuse coaching of fundamental shots when a player has time with the best ways to improvise when a player doesn’t have time.

I tried to stay out of this thread, but it is descending into chaos. This whole tips section seems to have devolved into guys arguing constantly that one way of hitting any particular shot is better than all other ways and it seems to posted by consumers of Internet coaching rather than heavy contributions by coaches who develop players in real life. Real life coaches teach basic fundamentals mostly related to footwork/body and allow a lot of variation in swings as long as it is one of the accepted textbook ways to swing. On each shot, the textbook has kept evolving over the last 50 years with equipment/surface changes and for adult rec players, many swing types work fine. If they look like or try to copy a Laver, McEnroe, Sampras, Djokovic, Federer, Sinner or Alcaraz, their shots would be fine as long as they are following all the fundamentals. But probably coaches would not recommend copying the swing of Medvedev who is very unconventional and pulls it off with his talent plus the fact that his footwork/body positioning is fundamentally sound.
Click to expand...

nothing wrong with that. already said will cover other aspects later. but have to build the hand muscle memory first... then comes jono the bozo stirring the pot lol.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
fuzz nation said:
Regardless of what I may or may not agree with in this thread, I'll only offer that in the world of tennis tips, the only advice that's just about 100% applicable to everybody is "keep your eye on the ball". Try to watch it through contact.

Offering sweeping generalizations about any particular point of tennis technique will never be universally right for everybody. I'm routinely humbled by this reality in my own pursuits with teaching and coaching. The very best teachers I've seen in action have been people who can combine a solid fundamental understanding of shot mechanics - NOT always the same for everybody - with a keen ability to offer the right idea to a particular "student" at the right moment. Great teachers are great communicators... but many great players absolutely stink at teaching.

The advice that one developing player needs for learning to hit better volleys will almost never be the same as what makes that mental light bulb turn on for somebody else. If you have what you think is a better approach to the idea of hitting good volleys, offer that up for consideration, but not as gospel. Maybe it will make the light turn on for somebody who didn't have any luck with another image or idea. That approach may also keep the critics and the noise a little more under control.

It sure can get noisy around here...
Click to expand...

some truth to that. but I have fixed so many guys volleys it all starts from the same spot. let the hand supplying its own power and get rid of the arm chop.

haven't even got to other aspects yet, then this pozo with his shyt technique learned from some $30/hour coach came in here making noise.

yes it is noisy.. tough for anyone to learn anything.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
I already said will cover other aspects later, including the 1st volley which likely will involve some footwork... but that's all secondary. volley is like holding a fishing landing net and run around the court to catch these flying things called tennis ball.

of course the rest of the body is not frozen while you squeeze the hand.

Oscar obviously is not saying don't move feet.

I am actually teaching exactly the same thing.

Oscar said 'adjust with the hand', but he didn't break down to the exact mechanics... I just added the details of how to 'adjust', and provided a drill to train it.... that's it.
 
Jono123

Jono123

Professional
The video looks a little dated. However the guy with the oversized racquet is right, if you're static and you need to hit an instinctive volley then foot movement becomes less important.

In the modern game, dubs is more dynamic with aggressive poaching etc, requiring lateral forward movement. But one size certainly doesn't fit all.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Jono123 said:
The video looks a little dated. However the guy with the oversized racquet is right, if you're static and you need to hit an instinctive volley then foot movement becomes less important.

In the modern game, dubs is more dynamic with aggressive poaching etc, requiring lateral forward movement. But one size certainly doesn't fit all.
Click to expand...

guy with the oversized racket... how old are you kiddo? that's the guy who coached guga and some other pros.

what modern game.... it's not relevant.. more running /poaching or not the hand still has to supply its own power.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Curious said:
I suspect another possibility. He posted someone else’s video as if it’s him hitting and deleted quickly before the real person sees it. I can’t think of another reason why he wouldn’t post the video again.
Click to expand...

i thought you saw it?

here.. black shirt. -

was showing samples of the bh on how to grip loose and track the ball in, but there are a few volleys in there. friend sent to me to fix his shots so i dont wnat to leave it up there..
 
T

tendency

Semi-Pro
10sbeast888 said:
i thought you saw it?

here.. black shirt. -

was showing samples of the bh on how to grip loose and track the ball in, but there are a few volleys in there. friend sent to me to fix his shots so i dont wnat to leave it up there..
Click to expand...

another 3.5 level hack trying to pass themselves off as god's gift to the tennis teaching world. lol .. not sure why that seems to happen in here so often.

i will give you props for posting some zapruder quality video of you playing though. if you're really intent on showing people your technique how hard is it to buy a cheap tripod and shoot yourself w/ your smartphone? odd.
 
Last edited:
1

10sbeast888

Professional
tendency said:
another 3.5 level hack trying to pass themselves off as god's gift to the tennis teaching world. lol .. not sure why that seems to happen in here so often.

i will give you props for posting some zapruder quality video of you playing though. if you're really intent on showing people your technique how hard is it to buy a cheap tripod and film yourself w/ your smartphone? odd.
Click to expand...

because you have no idea about the situation is, what you need to look for.. it shows your own lack of clue.
 
Jono123

Jono123

Professional
10sbeast888 said:
i thought you saw it?

here.. black shirt. -

was showing samples of the bh on how to grip loose and track the ball in, but there are a few volleys in there. friend sent to me to fix his shots so i dont wnat to leave it up there..
Click to expand...
Actually, if that's you in black, you're a lot better than I anticipated. It doesn't look like you move a lot , but your backhand is pretty nice.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
10sbeast888 said:
i thought you saw it?

here.. black shirt. -

was showing samples of the bh on how to grip loose and track the ball in, but there are a few volleys in there. friend sent to me to fix his shots so i dont wnat to leave it up there..
Click to expand...
Quality of your strokes does not reflect your ‘expert’ TT status is all I can say. And pretty disappointed by that bh!
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Jono123 said:
Actually, if that's you in black, you're a lot better than I anticipated. It doesn't look like you move a lot , but your backhand is pretty nice.
Click to expand...

gee thx for not calling me 3.5.... this is early morning just rolled out of bed helping a 4.0 developing his game type of hit.
 
1

10sbeast888

Professional
Curious said:
Quality of your strokes does not reflect your ‘expert’ TT status is all I can say. And pretty disappointed by that bh!
Click to expand...

you just need to take the leap of faith, because right now you don't know what you don't know... once you fully develop your bh you will be able to appreciate mine, even in a casual hit.
 
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