How to win Mixed Doubles Tournament without becoming the Most Hated Man in the world?

[Deleted member 120290]

I'm playing in a mixed doubles tournament tomorrow. It is supposed to be friendly but there is $500, $300, $200 prize money for 1st, 2nd, 3rd respectively. As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "friendly" match when money is involved.

At the same time I don't want to be killing or injuring female opponents and becoming a pariah. But if I don't hit my normal serves, ground strokes, volleys, overheads and instead slow down my swing, I could lose my rhythm and my game could go off the rails completely.

A couple of teams have very strong female players such as a coach and I have no problem hitting my normal strokes against them. But there are bound to be a few weaker and senior women players. I was thinking of swinging at my normal speed but using more, heavier topspin and hitting a lot of kick serves. That way I will keep my rhythm but not hurt the opposing female players. I've noticed that women tend to have a more difficult time than men with heavy topspin. I was also thinking of playing the net more to cut off weak replies.

Any suggestions, comments esp. from those with mixed doubles experience?

 

[jm1980]

You're going to have to go at the woman. Just don't do it all the time. A few well timed shots at her in important points usually disguises your game plan pretty well. Try not to hit her and do an apology wave if it goes too close. If you can hit kick serves that's a huge plus because most women under 4.5 have a hard time handling kickers, and it doesn't look like you're hitting that hard.

I also wouldn't worry too much about becoming a "pariah." Most players understand that's the nature of competitive mixed dubs

 

[NLBwell]

i don't know.
I generally lose in mixed doubles. I don't hit hard at the woman.
Usually, it ends up with the opposing man playing against my partner. Just can't make myself be cutthroat enough.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

i don't know.
I generally lose in mixed doubles. I don't hit hard at the woman.
Usually, it ends up with the opposing man playing against my partner. Just can't make myself be cutthroat enough.

That is usually me too in social play. But I think in money tournaments, I need to man or woman up.

 

[onehandbh]

Play with a male partner and then crossdress as a woman. Then you can play your normal game and also increase your chances of winning.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Based on your questions, your not at a level where you need to consider the opponents gender out of mercy. Just go play.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Based on your questions, your not at a level where you need to consider the opponents gender out of mercy. Just go play.

I'd argue the opposite: the higher the level, the less likely you need to worry about targeting the woman. She can take care of herself. It's at the low levels [I'm assuming you think @TenFanLA is at too LOW of a level to worry about such things] where the histrionics and bad blood occur.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

Based on your questions, your not at a level where you need to consider the opponents gender out of mercy. Just go play.

I'd argue the opposite: the higher the level, the less likely you need to worry about targeting the woman. She can take care of herself. It's at the low levels [I'm assuming you think @TenFanLA is at too LOW of a level to worry about such things] where the histrionics and bad blood occur.

I usually play 4.0/4.5 men's doubles in tournaments. I almost never play with or against women socially or in tournaments.
The mixed tournament will have most likely 3.5 to Open women's players. I don't need to worry about hitting hard at 4.5 to Open level women.
My worry is when I play against 3.5 to 4.0 women esp. if they are older or fragile looking, I will look and feel bad hitting hard and directing most of my shots at them.
When I play against men, of course the strategy is to keep hitting to the weaker player. But unless they are seniors, I have no reservation against hitting to them repeatedly or hitting hard shots at them.

 

[PittsburghDad]

But are they pushers?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Maybe this will ease your mind.

(Then again, you might want to question the sanity of the elderly women who are in the tournament.)

If I play mixed doubles at my level, I would feel no remorse for pegging the girl. Below my level, I just rally crosscourt nonstop. From the net, I've mostly gotten over my mental block of hitting to the other net man (as well as regardless of gender). The volley won't come in as hard, and I'm usually a touch/control volleyer rather than a guy who has super quick hands that'll beat up the ball if it's slow. Also if I hit it at them and I controlled it well, it'll land at their feet, a spot that shouldn't hurt at all while also being tough to get back (and if they do, you can either put it away or repeat the process until they miss).

Ah, sorry, too late to help.

 

[Bender]

Treat the opposing female the same way as you'd treat a male.

In my opinion just ignore what the player is--female, old, child, whatever.

It's an equal world, and the most respectable thing you can do is to treat them the same. Beneficial sexism is still sexism. If she's the weaker opponent, exploit her weaknesses the same, and I imagine the opposite team will be looking to do the same.

Just don't go around hitting AT your opponents, but I would think that you don't do that anyway.

 

[Shroud]

Treat the opposing female the same way as you'd treat a male.

In my opinion just ignore what the player is--female, old, child, whatever.

It's an equal world, and the most respectable thing you can do is to treat them the same. Beneficial sexism is still sexism. If she's the weaker opponent, exploit her weaknesses the same, and I imagine the opposite team will be looking to do the same.

Just don't go around hitting AT your opponents, but I would think that you don't do that anyway.

Agree! Was playing mixed and went at the lady and won the point. Apologized on the change over and damn if i didnt **** her off!

 

[Dark_Angel85]

1. Nothing wrong going for the weaker player. That IS tennis strategy. Would you say the same if BOTH players were men but one man was significantly weaker than the other? This becomes even more apparent ESPECIALLY if the woman is ACTUALLY the better player. What then? Still feel bad for going at the woman?


2. If you're talking about GOING AT THE WOMAN(or just aiming for ANY players body all the time) as in you're going to take her head out with your 200mph smash, then it's all about intention. In the rules, umpires will actually call out the players if they feel they are intentionally aiming for the players and trying to cause bodily harm when such a shot IS NOT NECESSARY. It is ultimately a gentlemen's sport and it will be VERY unlikely you get players whacking balls straight to bodies all the time to get points... If you intended to purposefully smack a players body/head out, that's not what tennis is about anyway. Sometimes a body shot is warranted but in general, you go for the open court or the clear winner. Even in the pro circuit, you see players going for the open court because it's the most sensible thing to do. They don't go whacking at the woman or the man straight up MOST of the time because there is a possibility the ball get's deflected back by their racquet.

Thus, on the flipside, if you do whack a smash(intentional to aim for the woman's side but clearly not trying to harm her purposefully) to a woman and it hits her body, that is 100% fine. Anyone in the tournament who says otherwise is just a sore loser/doesn't know anything about tennis. It is the opponents responsibility to be ready/avoid/block the balls coming. You're not RESPONSIBLE to be gentle.

 

[TennisCJC]

Play to win the match. It is the woman's responsibility to handle what you throw at her. If she is at net and cannot handle your pace, she should move to the baseline. You are correct, in that heavy slice or kick is very effective against most women but hit your normal first serve too. I would just serve strategically - hit the serve that gives you the best chance of winning.

I expect the woman to do everything in her power to win including hitting through you on sitters and exploiting your female partner if possible. I also expect the opposing male to try to exploit your female partner if possible. You will be at a disadvantage if you do any less.

I don't try to hit anyone but I hit the high percentage shot regardless of gender in competitive matches. In a social setting, I'll play nice and angle away from the net person. Like Brad Gilbert says, it is their responsibility to turn away if you have a sitter and they are at net. And, like Ivan Lendl said "I do not invite them to the net" when asked why he hits at net opponents.

 

[sureshs]

It's an equal world

Really?

 

[Dartagnan64]

Problem with 3.5 women is they have no clue about bailing. They'll stand their ground as you are winding up to plow a sitter right at them. It's totally unnerving. Was subbing today in my wife's usual woman's doubles match since I had the day off and someone was ill. There were a few times where I had a short ball in the service box and the opposing net player just stood there. In my men's league if I'm facing that shot I'm backing up and turning around as fast as I can.
OF course I didn't hit at them since it's my wife's good friends but one of them screamed as I whizzed a flat forehand right past her.

They just don't understand the differences in power.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

Thanks for the advice. Turns out I had nothing to worry about as most of the women were as good as or better than I. There were a few ex-junior players as well as coaches. There was only 1 team that had a weak female player. But the guy was so good he parked her in the alley and he covered 95% of the court and still beat us.

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Problem with 3.5 women is they have no clue about bailing. They'll stand their ground as you are winding up to plow a sitter right at them. It's totally unnerving. Was subbing today in my wife's usual woman's doubles match since I had the day off and someone was ill. There were a few times where I had a short ball in the service box and the opposing net player just stood there. In my men's league if I'm facing that shot I'm backing up and turning around as fast as I can.
OF course I didn't hit at them since it's my wife's good friends but one of them screamed as I whizzed a flat forehand right past her.

They just don't understand the differences in power.

I'm not assuming genders here, but are you both?

I'd stand my ground too. I've had enough guys try to murder me from that spot (several times in a row during a point) to be fine with it. If I'm feeling slower on that day, I'll dodge rather than try to put a racket on it.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Thanks for the advice. Turns out I had nothing to worry about as most of the women were as good as or better than I. There were a few ex-junior players as well as coaches. There was only 1 team that had a weak female player. But the guy was so good he parked her in the alley and he covered 95% of the court and still beat us.

The tournament structure is flawed if there are 3.5 levels playing against 5.0+ players. This would never happen at an official USTA tournament.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

The tournament structure is flawed if there are 3.5 levels playing against 5.0+ players. This would never happen at an official USTA tournament.

It wasn't USTA. It was a tournament in which each club fielded 3 teams, 1. Club president + any player, 2. female + any player, 3. >60 yo + any player. The clubs would play 3 matches with corresponding teams and the club who won at least 2 of the 3 sets won the matchup. We won 1st place in our round robin group but lost in the playoffs against the eventual champion.

 

[jm1980]

I'm not assuming genders here, but are you both?

I'd stand my ground too. I've had enough guys try to murder me from that spot (several times in a row during a point) to be fine with it. If I'm feeling slower on that day, I'll dodge rather than try to put a racket on it.

If it's a groundstroke or swing volley I'll sometimes stand my ground

If it's an overhead then I'm bailing every time

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

If it's a groundstroke or swing volley I'll sometimes stand my ground

If it's an overhead then I'm bailing every time

I generally try to play the overheads too. But if I'm feeling slow, I'll back up or dodge.

 

[Dark_Angel85]

I'm not assuming genders here, but are you both?

I'd stand my ground too. I've had enough guys try to murder me from that spot (several times in a row during a point) to be fine with it. If I'm feeling slower on that day, I'll dodge rather than try to put a racket on it.

If it's a groundstroke or swing volley I'll sometimes stand my ground

If it's an overhead then I'm bailing every time

I generally try to play the overheads too. But if I'm feeling slow, I'll back up or dodge.

In a tournament:
I'll normally size up my opponents and decide if I hold my ground or not. Generally people go for the open court if your positioning is not WAY OFF. During tournaments, playing with your regular/good partner will ensure that you're always not TOO off position and your partner will always indicate when it's time to move back or you can also judge if your partner will just be saving the ball with a lob(thus moving into the right position in court) WAY before they line up for that smash. So, I do not see myself completely bailing out on a point. VERY rare that happens.

In a rec game:
Dude, sometimes you might get a weak partner or imbalanced foursome and if that ball gets set up nice enough to smack you in the face, as the saying goes "B***h, get out the way!" hahahahahhaa

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Generally people go for the open court if your positioning is not WAY OFF.

This makes no sense. If your positioning is correct, there is no open court. If your positioning is way off, there is a giant chunk of open court you can hit to for a winner without having to hit 100%.

 

[Dark_Angel85]

This makes no sense. If your positioning is correct, there is no open court. If your positioning is way off, there is a giant chunk of open court you can hit to for a winner without having to hit 100%.

Bro, what say you there is NO open court when player(s) are in position? There's always an open court. Doesn't mean you are both in position there is NO OPEN COURT for the opponents. Good positioning might make the open court a more difficult shot choice;awkward angle; smaller(from where the opponents position is). I don't think there's such a thing as both players covered THE WHOLE COURT regardless singles or doubles.

I don't mean open as in both players are out of the court completely like an open goal. The open court means away from the player where they're not standing right there. Doesn't mean that IF a player can still get to it via predicting your shot or superior movement that THAT spot is NOT an open court. Get it?

I disagree with not putting in 100% or hitting 100% to your version of an open court. Unless you mean 100% power, yes. Not all winners and put aways are a full swing.

 

[Allcourtguy]

I find a lot of women will hang back at the base line and not approach the net. If she does this and isn't in good shape I will drop shot her to death. No risk involved.

 

[Dark_Angel85]

If one team is two up and the other has two back and the team at net volleys short middle, where is the open court?

Edit:
Great thread title

A short middle shot in your given situation(and assuming they're both playing the shot intended to put you off position/trying to bring you forward/etc; thus if they're starting to move forward into the net to hit a put away volley) means the open court is the back court. where you could lob; also if they're closing in either towards the middle/following up on the doubles alley, there's bound to be an open court on the other side. No SUCH THING as NO OPEN COURT. I think there's a video about this court positioning by FYB when they interviewed Murphy Jensen about how the Washington Kastles play their doubles and 'closing the gap' thus making the opponent HIT the tougher shot at the open court. This is VERY good because when you know there's an open court, you are sorta like forcing your opponent/luring him to take that open court shot which is supposedly the more DIFFICULT choice. I think he mentioned about "If he can make the shot, then kudos to him... but you WANT him to take his chances with that small open court you've given him instead of the easy pass DTL for example," He even mentioned "Give him the lob, you want that lob" when he talks about closing into the net and the risk of leaving the back court open for the lob.

I think that interview was really good in illustrating court positioning in doubles and how to make the GAP i.e. OPEN COURT the more difficult choice for the opponent to hit. Even when we talk about 'closing in', there's actually no real CLOSE ALL THE GAPS. Merely making the choices of gaps for the opponent to hit more difficult and improbable.

 

[movdqa]

If you want to win, do what you have to to win. If you want to be nice, then be nice. If you have a goal, work towards that goal, don't sabotage it.

If you want to help your cause, get a ringer for a partner (that worked well for me in College Club mixed - my partner was near the top of the Women's team the year before).

 

[Enga]

How to win? Dont play. But Im assuming your wife or girlfriend would be out of a partner. Thats tough luck.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

I realize now that mixed doubles is a lose-lose situation for men. If you win, you are a chump. If you lose, you are a loser chump.

 

[ark_28]

Definitely play to win! So do not worry about how you will be perceived.

Without knowing the standard of the ladies it is hard to know but i was in a similar situation last year i was asked to fill in a club fun mixed event i was easily the strongest player there male or female and they put me with the weakest lady, we still managed to win the event.

I found that with the weak ladies I hit drop shot returns but far enough away from her partner at the net, i would often hit it in such a way that she could get there but not do much with it then i would just hit a lob back over her head.

Now some thought this play was disrespectful, but to me its a way of controlling the game and not injuring anyone.

When I served i just put a lot of slice on it and would just come into the net behind it and hit a deep volley to stop them from moonballing or getting into some protracted rally.

I would hit a bit to the man too because it will keep him honest and it varies things up nicely.

Lets us know how you get on and good luck