https://www.teamtopspin.com/tennis-self-rating
i was surpised that it got my 4.5 rating correct...
i was surpised that it got my 4.5 rating correct...
how well does this questionnaire predict your NTRP/UTR?
- Thread starter nyta2
- Start date
GrassCourtFan
Legend
It overrated mine. It said I'm a 5.0 and I'm definitely not, I'm 4.5.
Possibly because I'm a 4.5 with variety, so a lot of times it asked about "can you hit X shot" I said yes, I rely on being able to hit lots of different shots. I'm a 4.5 and not 5.0 because I just can't hit them hard enough, but I can hit a lot of different spins and spots!
Or possibly because it often asked about balls of a particular speed, and I've never measured the speed of either my or my opponents' shots. So when it said "50 km/h" and "80 km/h" I really had no idea whether that was way slower, about the same, or way faster than the shots I can hit/receive in a match... so I took a guess, and sounds like I guessed wrong. I vaguely remembered that at some point (oof, more than 15 years ago at this point) I'd measured my serve speed and hit them at 80-90 mph, so I figured 80 km/h wasn't that hard since I've never been a big server, but maybe that was wrong.
Possibly because I'm a 4.5 with variety, so a lot of times it asked about "can you hit X shot" I said yes, I rely on being able to hit lots of different shots. I'm a 4.5 and not 5.0 because I just can't hit them hard enough, but I can hit a lot of different spins and spots!
Or possibly because it often asked about balls of a particular speed, and I've never measured the speed of either my or my opponents' shots. So when it said "50 km/h" and "80 km/h" I really had no idea whether that was way slower, about the same, or way faster than the shots I can hit/receive in a match... so I took a guess, and sounds like I guessed wrong. I vaguely remembered that at some point (oof, more than 15 years ago at this point) I'd measured my serve speed and hit them at 80-90 mph, so I figured 80 km/h wasn't that hard since I've never been a big server, but maybe that was wrong.
lol, first time i took the test, it rated me a 5.5... then i retook and converted units to mph... and after answering appropriate to speeds, i correctly placed me at 4.5.
the gs speeds i'm hitting are in the 50mph range, and 1st serve maxing in the 90mph range (though rarely used in match)... my opponents speeds are similar...
when going against guys that serve "much" bigger than me, or gs much bigger (guestimating 60-70mph+ gs, and 100mph+ serve), i fall apart...
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
It underrated me by 1.0 NTRP. Maybe I am bad at determining how hard I hit the ball in mph? 75 mph seems pretty fast, but I have never measured.
Biologydropout
New User
I ended up overrated by .5 NTRP but I was in (the lower) range for UTR. That’s more on me I think though as I don’t know what speeds I routinely see and thought I was overrating myself. It did show that returning serve is the weakest part of my game but I already knew that. Especially in singles, I just try to return serves deep.
I’m a low end 4.0 with a 4.7ish singles and 5.8ish doubles UTR. Website gave me a 4.5 NTRP and 4.5-7 UTR.
I’m a low end 4.0 with a 4.7ish singles and 5.8ish doubles UTR. Website gave me a 4.5 NTRP and 4.5-7 UTR.
Lord Of The Strings
Rookie
It overrated me by 0.5 NTRP, but was in range for UTR. That said, it gave me nearly a 3 point UTR range...so I'd hope I was in range. lol. It gave me a 4.5 NTRP and 6 - 8.5 UTR. In reality, i'm a middle 4.0 for my area with a 6.2ish singles and doubles UTR.
It accurately identified my serve as my weakest link, which I knew. It overrated my groundstrokes a bit.
It accurately identified my serve as my weakest link, which I knew. It overrated my groundstrokes a bit.
Lord Of The Strings
Rookie
i think speed familiarity and it having an accuracy threshold at 5/10 contribute to the overrating. 50% accuracy on shots isn't a high enough bar to be "consistent" IMO, but the rating questionnaire seemed to indicate it was. Obviously we know that tennis is a game of margins and matches are usually won with just over 50% of points, but the accuracy level on shots is typically higher than this to be considered "consistent."i wonder if the overrates were due to not being familiar with speeds with train at? in my case, i didn't switch the kmh to mph
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
It over-rated me in NTRP (5.0 vs 4.5), but was OK in UTR range. Maybe it is more accurate in UTR as it gives a range.
I think it misses asking questions about physical endurance and movement which is why it over-rates an older player like me.
I think it misses asking questions about physical endurance and movement which is why it over-rates an older player like me.
bobbybob14
Rookie
It was smack on for me.
true.
i asked a fellow 4.5 teammate how fast he thought he was serving... he said 90-100mph... (i was chip & charging his return)
asked him how fast he thought i was serving (i serve much faster than him)... he said 110mph.. (i wish)
he couldn't believe it when i said i was probably maxing out at low 90's (per gun, sony sensor, playsight, etc...), which implied he was probably 70-80mph max...
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
All rec players tend to over estimate how hard they are hitting. Maybe whoever made this quiz over estimates it as well.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Also this seems to be geared for singles players. I would ask questions about directional serving, having multiple spins on serves, returning wide serves crosscourt, returning inside-out on middle serves, comfort with low volleys etc. in addition to fairly evaluate advanced doubles-only players.
sovertennis
Professional
Overrated me, saying I'm a 5.0. I maxed out at 4.5 a few years ago. For the moment though, I'll revel in the delusion that I'd be a 5.0 in Toronto.
GrassCourtFan
Legend
would be interesting to see if we could come up with a ttw list of questions that would more accurately predict ntrp...
maybe even form the basis of a ntrp-centric predictive ai model
I doubt it. Even with how wide the NTRP bands are, it’s hard to find good questions. Problem is, the biggest differences between levels are stuff like speed, power, weight of shot. People don’t measure that, and without a real measurement, it’s really hard to describe the difference.
Lord Of The Strings
Rookie
I think this highlights the prime difference between NTRP and UTR - they serve different purposes. In some areas, a 5.xx UTR is a 4.0 NTRP most of the time. In other areas (including mine), the 4.0 band doesn't really kick in until the mid-6.xx UTR (and almost certainly nobody with a 5.xx is a 4.0 unless they exclusively play 40+/55+). This is b/c NTRP's goal is to group players into competitive bands in a geographic region, whereas UTR is the compare players who would otherwise never play against each other. Personally, I don't have an issue with this distinction and I think the system leads to way more competitive matches than you see in other adult rec sports like basketball/softball/soccer, but I know some people get real fussy if they see somebody with a 1 - 1.5 point lower UTR than them have a higher NTRP.
Bill Lobsalot
Hall of Fame
Survey doesn't account for footwork and speed of movement - very important elements of the game.
Mine came out to be 2.5 but unlike you, I answered honestly.
That's interesting, most people on here seemed to agree that UTR range of about 5.25 - 6.75 was pretty accurate for "true" 4.0 men in their area, when I brought up the idea previously. That would mean roughly half of 4.0 men are 5.XX. If your area is that much different it would be surprising. It could be testable, e.g. one could see if UTR has a high prediction failure rate when different areas / sections meet in the post-season.
Vox Rationis
Professional
That is unusual. Even the teams that go to nationals face a bunch of 5 UTR 4.0s in their local leagues and even in playoffs sometimes. A local league starting at mid 6 should be seeing great playoff results.
It asked whether I can rally 10 balls in a row. I assume most of you said yes. I said no. Why? Because I don't use ball machines and my partners most often do not keep 10 balls in play. Most of them are 3.5-4.5 USTA league players and after a couple of balls, they want to go somewhat outside their comfort zone while politely avoiding winners. Most pros also do not hit 10 rally balls during practice. Most of the ATP points end within 4 strokes - this has been well established. So, if you said yes, it is most likely because you are thinking about very deliberately easy balls or projecting that you can hit 10 balls without evidence.
The other question asked about returning 80 mph serves. It has been reported many times that rec players serve from 60 to 90 mph, and most likely you are not getting 80 mph serves even at the 4.5 level. So, if you answered yes, you are lying.
The other question asked about returning 80 mph serves. It has been reported many times that rec players serve from 60 to 90 mph, and most likely you are not getting 80 mph serves even at the 4.5 level. So, if you answered yes, you are lying.
Lord Of The Strings
Rookie
Would love to see the results of the test. To Vox's comment, our area does have pretty solid playoff results year-in and year-out. I think the idea of "true" 4.0 (or any NTRP) is a tough thing to measure since the entire point is for it to be a band of players among similar skill levels, rather than some objective benchmark for people to measure against.
regardless...and this is obviously anecdotal, but in my 24 4.0 matches (spring, tri-level, summer singles, tournament) this year that were against actual NTRP 4.0s (not 3.5s playing up), only 7 of them involved an opponent with a UTR below 6.00. Of these 7, 2 matches were against guys that are primarily 40+/55+ players who were playing in a tournament setting. 2 other matches were against 4.0S players who are overrated at 4.0 IMO. My spring team did not win our local league (we finished 3rd, the winner of local league did win States), and I did not play top line (mostly played D2/D3) in the spring.
so again, it's purely anecdotal, but in my area the 3.5/4.0 divide appears pretty cut along the 5.99/6.00 UTR line for 18+ players. I'm truly not complaining, I love my local tennis area and it has good participation, high level, and is lots of fun. I truly didn't know that it was accepted a lot of places for a mid-5.xx UTR to be a 4.0 player.
In their year-end rating calculations, USTA does seem to put a lot of effort toward using the match results at Nationals to make sure that the rating bands are not too inconsistent across different sections. For example they reportedly weight those match results more heavily, and maybe sometimes even do some manual adjustments to an entire group if it seems way off from the rest of the country. So if one area truly drifts into having a much stronger average pool of 4.0 players than the others, that should not last more than a year or two.
johnmccabe
Hall of Fame
Overrated me by 0.5 on the first try. got it right on second try.
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JordanWinning
Rookie
Every team’s best lineup in my 3.5 league is 5.XX doubles rating for UTR. Traditionally the area does pretty well. 4.0s are regularly up in the 8.XX range
Topspin Shot
Legend
It got me right pretty much, said I was a 5.0. Not sure what they wanted for returns where they asked can I return a serve of any speed. Did they mean any speed comparable to the ones they'd already listed, or any speed at all? Like I can't return a 130 mph serve.
You shouldn't have 4.0 players in the 8.xx UTR range. Seven is the ceiling for 4.0. At 7.00, you are winning 90% or more of your 4.0 matches. At 8.00, you are way out of level.
Vox Rationis
Professional
What area? Because you mentioned Indiana and the district winner at 4.0 had mostly UTR 6s with a few 7s. Which is pretty typical of strong 4.0 teams. UTR 8s at 4.0 are usually suspect in some way (inflated rating, sandbagger, junior/college ringer, etc...)
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perhaps a stacked team with folks they hid in 3rd dubs?
saw a couple of those in nationals last year.
(eg. our singles guy played a utr9+, but looking at tennisrecord he was a low-mid4.5 that "only played dubs",... but on utr he played some open tourneys with decent results... that said my teammate was an utr8.5+ and won, and was bumped to 5.0 this year)
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
People consistently overestimate the speed of the shots being hit when they are playing, but seem to be much better at judging the speed of balls in a video
i interpreted it to mean "atp" level serves,
with the idea that most rec (5.0 and lower) are probably hitting a ceiling in the 90's-mph (exceptions apply of course)...
but if you're regularly facing 100mph+ (eg. nishioka/schwartzman on the low end, raonic/isner on the high end), then i would check "yes" to that answer.
JordanWinning
Rookie
There are definitely some out of level guys, but their teams didn’t do as well this year. A few of them I expect to get bumped. I don’t have premium UTR, I’m guessing they were like 8.1 or 8.0x, but I know of one team for sure that had multiple guys in the 8 range throughout the year.
A 5.0 I play dubs with for combo also is in the 8s tho (just rechecked), so who knows. Seems like Indy has a lot jam in the 8s. Have come across many 9.XX even if guys that play 5.0 (admittedly only looking at the handful I know/have met, not digging into every TR 5.0)
seems very out of band... i'd have expected an ntrp4.0 to top out at ~utr7.0-ish...
on my teams, utr8.5 was about the top end of ntrp4.5 (they got bumped to ntrp5.0 this year)
that makes sense... of the ntrp5.0's i know, they range utr8.5-10.
above utr10.5 lets say, they are getting bumped- out of ntrp5.0
utr11+ is div1
i've seen utr11-12 play in ntrp5.0 league, but they are clearly out of level, and just sandbagging... but folks in ntrp5.0 will never complain, because they want to see that competition...
JordanWinning
Rookie
Just did some sleuthing on some of the better players in my 3.5 league. A fair few UTR 6.XX and even one 7.XX! All C rated player too and I only really expect one of them to get bumped
Well the team that dominated 4.0 men's sectionals in my area is mostly 6.XX, plus a couple 7.XX who are likely to be bumped to 4.5 at year end.
So the question is, are the guys in your area really that much better at the same NTRP level? If those 3.5C guys moved here would they suddenly become dominant 4.0 players? Seems unlikely. An alternate explanation is that UTR has just drifted out of whack in your area because the network of rated matches is not connected enough to players from other areas.
JordanWinning
Rookie
That’s my guess. Indianapolis is pretty insular tennis community. There’s lots of cities within 3~4 hours, but people don’t really make the trek for tennis. We have some really nasty 5.0s in the area rated as 8.XX. I’d expect if we got some outside blood in or people started playing the occasional Chicago/Nashville/Cincinnati tournament we’d start to see some numbers drift
Vox Rationis
Professional
Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, it seems like we’re not all on the same page. The way I interpret Jordans posts is he’s talking about a handful of the outliers across the league while you were talking about where the majority lies. Him saying “A fair few” makes it seem like most the 3.5s are UTR5s but there are still several 6s and even one 7 scattered throughout the league. I bet there’s plenty of 4s too that haven’t been mentioned. That seems normal for most decently populated areas (except for the 7). There’s always outliers on the ends of the bell curve.
But when you were talking it seemed like you were talking about the bulk of players. It’s not like UTR 7s at 4.0 and 6s at 3.5 are unheard of. They just make up a significant minority of most leagues. And considering the make up of Jordan’s district winners I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan’s area is similar. He was just acknowledging that there are a number of players with higher UTRs as well……
……or their 3.5 team is about to win nationals. Who knows?
Vox Rationis
Professional
All that being said I think Michigan is going to win 4.0 sectionals in the Midw3st. The same team that went last year looks loaded again this year.
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