how well does this questionnaire predict your NTRP/UTR?

jhick

Hall of Fame
It overrated mine. It said I'm a 5.0 and I'm definitely not, I'm 4.5.

Possibly because I'm a 4.5 with variety, so a lot of times it asked about "can you hit X shot" I said yes, I rely on being able to hit lots of different shots. I'm a 4.5 and not 5.0 because I just can't hit them hard enough, but I can hit a lot of different spins and spots!

Or possibly because it often asked about balls of a particular speed, and I've never measured the speed of either my or my opponents' shots. So when it said "50 km/h" and "80 km/h" I really had no idea whether that was way slower, about the same, or way faster than the shots I can hit/receive in a match... so I took a guess, and sounds like I guessed wrong. I vaguely remembered that at some point (oof, more than 15 years ago at this point) I'd measured my serve speed and hit them at 80-90 mph, so I figured 80 km/h wasn't that hard since I've never been a big server, but maybe that was wrong.
Same with me. I'm a 4.5 but it rated me 5.0, probably because the questionnaire didn't ask anything about movement and age. It's funny, if I had the game I have now with the movement and athleticism I had in my younger years, I probably would have been 5.0 back then. As I've gotten older (turning 50 this year), I've improved in areas (move accurate, better lobs, ball placement, and tactical awareness) that I wasn't as strong in years ago.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
You shouldn't have 4.0 players in the 8.xx UTR range. Seven is the ceiling for 4.0. At 7.00, you are winning 90% or more of your 4.0 matches. At 8.00, you are way out of level.
Yeah, 8.xx is a 4.5, and on the stronger end, pretty sure closer to 5.0 than 4.0. I think typically most 4.5's I think are in the 7.xx - 8 range.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, it seems like we’re not all on the same page. The way I interpret Jordans posts is he’s talking about a handful of the outliers across the league while you were talking about where the majority lies. Him saying “A fair few” makes it seem like most the 3.5s are UTR5s but there are still several 6s and even one 7 scattered throughout the league. I bet there’s plenty of 4s too that haven’t been mentioned. That seems normal for most decently populated areas (except for the 7). There’s always outliers on the ends of the bell curve.

But when you were talking it seemed like you were talking about the bulk of players. It’s not like UTR 7s at 4.0 and 6s at 3.5 are unheard of. They just make up a significant minority of most leagues. And considering the make up of Jordan’s district winners I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan’s area is similar. He was just acknowledging that there are a number of players with higher UTRs as well……

……or their 3.5 team is about to win nationals. Who knows?
Jordan said that nearly all the 3.5 guys who have UTR 6.XX (and one 7.XX) in his area are unlikely to get bumped up to 4.0, which I took to mean that, while they are higher-end 3.5 guys, they are not especially dominant. That would be unheard of in my area (and most other areas, I think). A UTR 6.XX guy would not just be a good 3.5 player, he would be crushing everyone in 3.5 and also be above average in 4.0.
 

Vox Rationis

Professional
Jordan said that nearly all the 3.5 guys who have UTR 6.XX (and one 7.XX) in his area are unlikely to get bumped up to 4.0, which I took to mean that, while they are higher-end 3.5 guys, they are not especially dominant. That would be unheard of in my area (and most other areas, I think). A UTR 6.XX guy would not just be a good 3.5 player, he would be crushing everyone in 3.5 and also be above average in 4.0.
Good point. Agreed would be unhear of.
 
https://www.teamtopspin.com/tennis-self-rating
i was surpised that it got my 4.5 rating correct...
Definitely better than the wtn initial questionnaire.

My only experience with a rating as I'm uk and only play doubles.

It's a bit more nuanced and even if you tend to under or over estimate your skills it's broader than the wtn one and I think gets u in the ballpark.

Does kind of rely on an understanding on actual ball speed rather than what we may think.

The wtn seems to have only one question that could decide level which is how easily do you hold serve. In there defence its a good question as the lower the level the more breaks there are, but 1 question with under over estimation and depending if you play in level or above or below and no regard for playing surface is too weak.
 
Honestly, correct me if I’m wrong, it seems like we’re not all on the same page. The way I interpret Jordans posts is he’s talking about a handful of the outliers across the league while you were talking about where the majority lies. Him saying “A fair few” makes it seem like most the 3.5s are UTR5s but there are still several 6s and even one 7 scattered throughout the league. I bet there’s plenty of 4s too that haven’t been mentioned. That seems normal for most decently populated areas (except for the 7). There’s always outliers on the ends of the bell curve.

But when you were talking it seemed like you were talking about the bulk of players. It’s not like UTR 7s at 4.0 and 6s at 3.5 are unheard of. They just make up a significant minority of most leagues. And considering the make up of Jordan’s district winners I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan’s area is similar. He was just acknowledging that there are a number of players with higher UTRs as well……

……or their 3.5 team is about to win nationals. Who knows?
We’re playing for the ******* this weekend! I don’t think anyone on our team lied when self rating, but most of the team is in their mid 20s to early 30s, and I think that may be helping our UTRs as well.

Most of the team is in the 5s, I’d say most teams are in the 4.5s to 5.5s UTR
 
Jordan said that nearly all the 3.5 guys who have UTR 6.XX (and one 7.XX) in his area are unlikely to get bumped up to 4.0, which I took to mean that, while they are higher-end 3.5 guys, they are not especially dominant. That would be unheard of in my area (and most other areas, I think). A UTR 6.XX guy would not just be a good 3.5 player, he would be crushing everyone in 3.5 and also be above average in 4.0.
Certainly not dominant, but there’s something to be said for finding a way to win. Can confirm it’s not tanking/managing/rating, just good ole rec tennis where one minute you’re a god and the next you’re a beached jelly fish.

One thing I also think may affect are UTR is how (relatively) popular combo leagues are. Lots of the high UTR 3.5s play 7.5, and the big outlier, plays 8.5 with a 5.0. Curious what role that plays on the algorithm
 

Vox Rationis

Professional
We’re playing for the ******* this weekend! I don’t think anyone on our team lied when self rating, but most of the team is in their mid 20s to early 30s, and I think that may be helping our UTRs as well.

Most of the team is in the 5s, I’d say most teams are in the 4.5s to 5.5s UTR
Good luck! Remember: you’re better than them and you know it!
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
It was pretty accurate in estimating my rating.

I think one of the weaknesses of this online estimator is that most people are not able to estimate the speed of the shots very accurately.

I would hazard a guess that very few rec players can hit first serves 100+ mph and get it in 50+ % and with placement.
 

leech

Semi-Pro
Dang, it rated me as a 2.0 NTRP (I'm a middle-of-the-road 4.0C). I can't volley or serve proficiently, but think my defense and unorthodox-ness keeps me competitive at my current rating.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Dang, it rated me as a 2.0 NTRP (I'm a middle-of-the-road 4.0C). I can't volley or serve proficiently, but think my defense and unorthodox-ness keeps me competitive at my current rating.
You and I are the only honest posters here.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
It asked whether I can rally 10 balls in a row. I assume most of you said yes. I said no. Why? Because I don't use ball machines and my partners most often do not keep 10 balls in play. Most of them are 3.5-4.5 USTA league players and after a couple of balls, they want to go somewhat outside their comfort zone while politely avoiding winners. Most pros also do not hit 10 rally balls during practice. Most of the ATP points end within 4 strokes - this has been well established. So, if you said yes, it is most likely because you are thinking about very deliberately easy balls or projecting that you can hit 10 balls without evidence.

The other question asked about returning 80 mph serves. It has been reported many times that rec players serve from 60 to 90 mph, and most likely you are not getting 80 mph serves even at the 4.5 level. So, if you answered yes, you are lying.
The question is "You can consistently rally 10+ balls in a row at moderate speed (31mi/h)." Seems pretty clear to me that question is talking about rallying back deliberately easy balls. And the first three returning-serve questions are about 50mph serves. Maybe they've changed the questions since you took it?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
The question is "You can consistently rally 10+ balls in a row at moderate speed (31mi/h)." Seems pretty clear to me that question is talking about rallying back deliberately easy balls. And the first three returning-serve questions are about 50mph serves. Maybe they've changed the questions since you took it?
How do I know about the speeds? If I knew that much, I would not be taking the questionnaire.
 

Jono123

Professional
Most rec players can't hit three balls in a rally let alone eight.

The questionnaire should be titled, 'how could do you want to be'?
 

TennisOTM

Professional
Most rec players can't hit three balls in a rally let alone eight.

The questionnaire should be titled, 'how could do you want to be'?
If we're talking about a cooperative rally where both players are hitting nice easy shots and trying to keep the rally going as long as possible, then I think you're incorrect. I rallied with a 3.0 in practice warm-ups last night and we regularly had 10+ ball rallies. I think most people are correctly interpreting the question that way, so it makes sense that even a 3.0 could answer yes and they would not be lying.
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
How do I know about the speeds?
that's sorta the gist of this thread, and the conclusion we're all coming to...
is that folks learn how to hit the basic strokes fh/bh topspin/slice, lob, serve, etc...
then presume they've made it... and judge their level by how good their technique looks...
ignoring speed&quality of shot&movement
 

Jono123

Professional
If we're talking about a cooperative rally where both players are hitting nice easy shots and trying to keep the rally going as long as possible, then I think you're incorrect. I rallied with a 3.0 in practice warm-ups last night and we regularly had 10+ ball rallies. I think most people are correctly interpreting the question that way, so it makes sense that even a 3.0 could answer yes and they would not be lying.
'You can consistently rally 10+ balls in a row at fast speed (80km/h+).'
 

Connor35

Semi-Pro
I took it twice. Once it said 5.0, I changed 2 questions I thought perhaps I was too optimistic about and it said 2.5. Im kind of on the brink between 3.5 and 4.0 due to lacking consistency.

The biggest issue to me is it didn't ask specifically about (1) backhands and (2) second serves.

We all know those two things completely define how good someone is. How does an algorithm rate you effectively without eliciting info about your backhand and second serve?
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
I took it twice. Once it said 5.0, I changed 2 questions I thought perhaps I was too optimistic about and it said 2.5. Im kind of on the brink between 3.5 and 4.0 due to lacking consistency.

The biggest issue to me is it didn't ask specifically about (1) backhands and (2) second serves.

We all know those two things completely define how good someone is. How does an algorithm rate you effectively without eliciting info about your backhand and second serve?
i just took it again to remind me of the questions... it didn't ask about bh specifically... but i think rallying/approach/etc... implies fh&bh
i do recall questions about second serve, specificaloy about location & depth in the box to prevent being attacked...
i think some questions do/don't get asked depending on what you say [yes] to.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
'You can consistently rally 10+ balls in a row at fast speed (80km/h+).'
That question gets you into 4.5/5.0 territory for ground strokes. I was talking about the 50km/h version, which is still in the 2.5 territory. That makes sense to me - 50km/h (31mi/h) is deliberately slow rallying.
 

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Has anybody on this thread ACTUALLY gotten a radar gun and measured the speed of their groundstrokes? I have never heard of anybody doing this.
What purpose would it serve? One would be then presented with facts - and no one uses facts here for any discussion.... :)
 

derick232

Rookie
Over rated me. But maybe that's my fault. Only correct rating was probably my serve at 5.0. Volleys should be 4.0. returns and groundstrokes should be 4.5.
 

Connor35

Semi-Pro
i just took it again to remind me of the questions... it didn't ask about bh specifically... but i think rallying/approach/etc... implies fh&bh
i do recall questions about second serve, specificaloy about location & depth in the box to prevent being attacked...
i think some questions do/don't get asked depending on what you say [yes] to.

I took it twice and didn't get any specific 2nd serve questions. Interesting.
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
Has anybody on this thread ACTUALLY gotten a radar gun and measured the speed of their groundstrokes? I have never heard of anybody doing this.
i've been on playsight (has radars), used sony sensor, use the portable radars, so yes :)
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
I took it twice and didn't get any specific 2nd serve questions. Interesting.
i'm presuming you said [yes] to:
"You can keep the ball in play and serve inside the service box."
:)

my answers:
(y) You use a full service motion (elbows down, superman pose, and whip-like motion with racket lag) on your first serve.
(y) You use a full service motion on your second serve and succeed at your first serve 5+ out of 10 times.
(y) You can vary the speed or direction of your first serve with speeds of at least 50mi/h, and direct second serve to opponent's weak side, rarely double faulting.
(y) You can vary both the speed and direction of your first serve, and use heavy spin on both serves. You are consistent with your flat, slice, and kick serves.
(y) You have an aggressive first serve with power (75mi/h+) and spin (flat or slice). Your second serve has good depth and placement, and you can angle your kick serves in every direction while maintaining heavy topspin.
(n) Your first serve often aces or forces a weak return, with both speed (94mi/h+) and angle of your choice. Your second serve prevents opponent from attacking since you can place it anywhere in the service box of your choosing.

did you say no early, or are you taking a different test... alot of questions reference 2nd serve.
 

coolvinny

Rookie
It overrates IMO. It puts me at NTRP 5.0 but I’m not anywhere near that. I’m 4.0. Tried to answer as honestly as possible.
 

Connor35

Semi-Pro
i'm presuming you said [yes] to:
"You can keep the ball in play and serve inside the service box."
:)

my answers:
(y) You use a full service motion (elbows down, superman pose, and whip-like motion with racket lag) on your first serve.
(y) You use a full service motion on your second serve and succeed at your first serve 5+ out of 10 times.
(y) You can vary the speed or direction of your first serve with speeds of at least 50mi/h, and direct second serve to opponent's weak side, rarely double faulting.
(y) You can vary both the speed and direction of your first serve, and use heavy spin on both serves. You are consistent with your flat, slice, and kick serves.
(y) You have an aggressive first serve with power (75mi/h+) and spin (flat or slice). Your second serve has good depth and placement, and you can angle your kick serves in every direction while maintaining heavy topspin.
(n) Your first serve often aces or forces a weak return, with both speed (94mi/h+) and angle of your choice. Your second serve prevents opponent from attacking since you can place it anywhere in the service box of your choosing.

did you say no early, or are you taking a different test... alot of questions reference 2nd serve.

I didn't get anything that specific!
 
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