Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Hottest rivalry right now in tennis. Please vote. I have my personal theory but will formulate it later…
How will the great Alcaraz - Sinner H2H end?
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
There is zero match up issue for Sinner. Carlos beat him straight up today. Same as in IW. Sad
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
There is nothing to figure out
Sinner needs to play far better. Dimitrov is a nobody and he won 2 matches vs Raz
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Sir Charles will have a commanding lead by the time their careers end.
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
Depends on how much Alcaraz will still improve/find more balance in his game, because when it comes to Sinner I believe he is at his peak or very close to it, whereas I am unsure regarding Carlitos, if his yet to hit his peak, then I think Carrot Boy is cooked. The problem for Sinner is that Carlitos seems to always bring his A game against him, he can play poorly against lesser players but against him he is always pumped, and the scary thing about Carlos is that he can get in the zone very late into a match, in crucial moments.
objection_
Rookie
Probably Carlos, don't think it's gonna be super lopsided but wouldn't be surprised if it was around 60% to 40%
Carlos is two years younger and further from his peak, think he has the edge on natural surfaces too where the age difference will be most influential due to the decline in physicality. Sinner probably only leads on fast hc.
Carlos is two years younger and further from his peak, think he has the edge on natural surfaces too where the age difference will be most influential due to the decline in physicality. Sinner probably only leads on fast hc.
Goat Shank
New User
Sinner will have a second wind eventually. All credit to Carlos for the win today, he's an absolute phenom and rightly the figurehead of the sport. Whether or not Jannik remains eternally in his shadow, I'm certain he can still carve out a very respectable legacy of his own. I think if Jannik had gone down the double break in the third or if Carlos had managed to hold all the way through the third with the one break, Jannik would be in a way worse headspace than he is now. As it is, after his fightback in the third even someone like Pavvy G is being pretty gracious in his post-match commentary on twitter whereas it would have been non-stop crowing if the other scenarios had occurred.
Jannik needs to do two things primarily going forwards: work on the dips in first serve percentage that still plague him at the most inopportune moments against Carlos, and move away from a strategy of containment towards trying to place Carlos on the defensive more. When he won against Carlos he would drag him into these hectic baseline rallies where Carlos had to hit all of his strokes off-platform. Lately (at IW, RG, and Beijing) he's been able to hit far more groundstrokes from a planted stance. It's extremely difficult to beat him when he's free to do that.
On a larger note, Sinner fans please exercise some composure in the way that you absorb today's loss. Yes, you will be trolled endlessly with "3-0", "not the real number one" and so on. Take it in stride and move on. Your boy will have his day in the sun again. And when he does, take a quiet pleasure in it and don't engage in reprisals of trolling otherwise the cycle will never end. In the meantime, please learn to be measured in your pronouncements in the future, as cocky predictions have invited a backlash from opposing fans.
Jannik needs to do two things primarily going forwards: work on the dips in first serve percentage that still plague him at the most inopportune moments against Carlos, and move away from a strategy of containment towards trying to place Carlos on the defensive more. When he won against Carlos he would drag him into these hectic baseline rallies where Carlos had to hit all of his strokes off-platform. Lately (at IW, RG, and Beijing) he's been able to hit far more groundstrokes from a planted stance. It's extremely difficult to beat him when he's free to do that.
On a larger note, Sinner fans please exercise some composure in the way that you absorb today's loss. Yes, you will be trolled endlessly with "3-0", "not the real number one" and so on. Take it in stride and move on. Your boy will have his day in the sun again. And when he does, take a quiet pleasure in it and don't engage in reprisals of trolling otherwise the cycle will never end. In the meantime, please learn to be measured in your pronouncements in the future, as cocky predictions have invited a backlash from opposing fans.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Move
Hall of Fame
Great post. I also think Carlos strategy of coming to the net as much as possible after applied baseline pressure is a good strategy instead of trying to outhit Jannik from the baseline
Great match today and great rivalry. They will challenge each other, hopefully sortof like the big 3 did.
KennyoFatoBoiyo
New User
Alcaraz's playstyle is like Beethoven's 3rd movement of Moonlight Sonata.
Has its ups and downs, tempo changes but at the same time Grandiose and exquisite.
When taken as a full package it is a piece of art to behold.
Has its ups and downs, tempo changes but at the same time Grandiose and exquisite.
When taken as a full package it is a piece of art to behold.
islappadaface
New User
My prediction: Carlos slightly ahead in the H2H, Sinner slightly ahead in titles and slams, but a difference which will make no difference to their legacy.
NeutralFan
G.O.A.T.
I am still going with our boy Sinner
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
It will end with Doper getting kicked off the tour.
This rivalry is going to be short-lived.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
My biggest fear is that WADA is going to stop us from finding out.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Carlos is ‘floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee’ against the heaviest regular hitter on tour by fleet footwork and with every shot in the book, including his huge forehand.
So far they have fought on slow to very slow surfaces, we will see how Janni’s hits will land on slicker ones...
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
70/30 % won matches in Carlos favor.
roysid
Legend
Reminds me of Federer Nadal 2006.
Fed was winning against everyone but Nadal. Also more GS and prestigious titles. But Nadal was leading the h2h and beat him in close matches
Winner Sinner
New User
It doesn't matter that Alcaraz is two years younger when their history says that the spaniard was practically born with a racket in his hand while Sinner at 12/13 years old was still undecided whether to play tennis or ski. The italian's margins for improvement are greater, it is no coincidence that in the last two years he has made much more progress than his spanish rival (who once reached number 1 levels remained essentially the same player, strengths and weaknesses).
islappadaface
New User
Recency bias rears its ugly head.
islappadaface
New User
You’re gonna be dogpiled for even existing on this forum. Just a warning!
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Perfectly tight or balanced.
Something like 20-22 Sinner or 23-21 Alcaraz. I'd not be surprised if its 20-20 either.
People need to step away from recency bias & look at the broader perspective.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
And I fear that its a farce just to save Jannik's doping @$$. They'd make it look as if a tough action was exercised and then let him walk away freely without any consequences whatsoever.
Winner Sinner
New User
I'm italian (and in fact I apologize if my english isn't so correct) and I think I have broad shoulders since I know Jannik's story inside and out better than anyone else in this forum. I speak with full knowledge of the facts on the subject.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
Nah. Sinner and Alcaraz played Tennis as much as each other from a young age.
You'll never seen Rafans gloating about his soccer skills or Fedovic fans, their skiing talent like how Jannik fans as nauseam do.
It's one of the most irrelevant points of arguments in the Sinner vs Alcaraz debate. The sooner it's retired, the better.
Also lol imagine thinking Alcaraz has not changed much despite the devastating backhand he has these days, the pace-absorption, and even the service game of his.
islappadaface
New User
But he isn’t just relying on the skiing argument. He mostly talked about his improvements over the last two years. Also plenty of Novak fans (Novak himself) credit his skiing background for his movement, something Sinner definitely possesses too. If you want to call movement irrelevant in tennis, I don’t know what to tell you.
I think as a fan of Alcaraz you should be grateful that Alcaraz now has a real rival to help improve his game. This is how the Big 3 improved and kept finding new ways to stay on top. Without Sinner it would just be a snoozefest and Carlos wouldn’t need to improve anything.
Move
Hall of Fame
He (Carlos) is playing with stricter tactical regime, thats for sure. It helps his game a lot. And in tiebreaks he can rely on the sudden surprises because he is so allround. As said, this is a great rivalry in the making. Jannik will respond, he is a thinker
islappadaface
New User
I know Jannik’s story too, though probably not as well as you because you are Italian. I wish you good luck trying to actually discuss Sinner reasonably on here.
Winner Sinner
New User
Obviously I didn't want to seem specious with that statement about knowing him better than the forum. It's not a question of competence in the subject (I would never dare) but of perception of the character which only by experiencing it from the inside (in Italy precisely) can it be understood in its entirety. Many might be surprised if I say that in Italy Sinner is seen as a sort of divinity. The levels of popularity and media attention it has reached in the last 12 months, probably not even Tomba, V46 and Pantani were able to reach them at their peak. You see him in every commercial, all the big mainstream events in the country compete for him (his refusal to attend the Sanremo Festival caused quite a stir), during his matches the ratings skyrocket, the Turin final with Djokovic and match of Davis with Djokovic, both broadcast on state TV, reached 7 million viewers, and we were only at the beginning of what is known here in Italy as Sinner-mania. The scandal over his residence in Monte Carlo has sparked much more division of opinion than the Clostebol positivity, in the latter the vast majority of Italians, from what can be understood on social media, think he is innocent. Wada's appeal has created much indignation in the country. The common opinion is that Wada should think about fighting those who try to improve their performance through the use of illicit practices and not those whose sole fault is not being able to control everything that happens within their staff.
Winner Sinner
New User
Now I don't remember who said it recently (perhaps Federica Brignone) but many professional skiers, thanks to the skills they have gained in their profession in terms of movements, are very comfortable when improvising tennis matches. It is a significant plus for a sport in which hitting the ball with the right balance of the body is fundamental.
ghostofMecir
Legend
It will be one of the most interesting rivalries since every match is a battle and there’s nothing that separates them. After 11 matches (if you include when they played as kids in a challenger), the dominance ratio is at EXACTLY 1.00, i.e., dead even, which is very interesting because there hasn’t been any blowout win for either player (see below). This is extremely rare between players who have played 10+ times, even for those who are relatively in the same generation/age.
If you look at the first 12 matches between Nadal and Djokovic:
The dominace ratio was in Nadal’s favor at 1.17 and Nadal had wins of 1.80 and 1.60, while Djokovic had a win of 1.75.
Take a look at the first 10+ matches between any two same generation players and you will see at least a few blowout wins.
If you look at the first 12 matches between Nadal and Djokovic:
The dominace ratio was in Nadal’s favor at 1.17 and Nadal had wins of 1.80 and 1.60, while Djokovic had a win of 1.75.
Take a look at the first 10+ matches between any two same generation players and you will see at least a few blowout wins.
Don’t think he has to figure anything out—the matches are extremely close either way. I do think he can still improve his serve at his height, though Carlitos is extremely difficult to get free points against on serve because he has great instincts and reaction time. I think Sinner can improve his forward movement and finishing volleys off of his heavy groundstrokes.
ghostofMecir
Legend
This is actually really accurate and well stated. Sinner is like Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D minor—relentless, commanding, and well-structured without the emotional swings.
If Alcaraz finds a way to balance the creative brilliance with the steadiness of percentage tennis while being able to summon the brilliant shots…
TheGoldenEra1990’s
Hall of Fame
Depends on who declines sooner. It’s hard to tell because every match they play could go either way on all surfaces and seems to always go down to deciding sets. All three matches were on anyone’s racket.
I’ll say it depends on if sinner gets a new coaching staff to fix his serve LOL
I’ll say it depends on if sinner gets a new coaching staff to fix his serve LOL
TheSlicer
Hall of Fame
And anyway, like if you can catch Up for what you havent played at 8 years old, specially whenthe other player keeps trainning..., no man, if i started to practice guitar at 13 instead of 5, It doesnt mean i have more margin for improvement, lol, but i still think like you, of course he played, kids at that age dont play tennis everyday anyway
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