How would you tension this racquetball racquet

[lionel_101]

Hi advanced tennis and racquetball stringers.

I have a common Head racquetball racquet that have the exact same stringing pattern as other head racquets. It is the Head Submission and has the following main specs.

16 Mains / 16 Crosses, Two Piece Stringing, String Tension: 31-37 pounds, power channels in the throat for the mains and IGS system for the crosses.

There are no grommets in the throat area, just a power channel that loops the string around and back up to the head of the racquet for each main. Thus you have to pull 2 mains at a time.

The crosses uses regular grommets at the top and the IGS system further down. The IGS requires you to tension the string either above or below the frame and clamping before you can insert it into the IGS channel and then coming out at the next cross location.

The customer wants a final tension of 35 lbs on both crosses and mains and doesn't want the main strings on the ends to feel to loose. Your task is how to tension the mains and crosses to achieve this and still have the racquet remain it's original length of 22 inches within 1/8 of an inch.

1. What tension would you use when pulling the 2 mains and why?
2. Would you add more tension on the main pull for the tie-off and if yes how much and why ?
3. What tension would you use when pulling the crosses and why ?
4. Would you add more tension on the last cross pull for the tie-off and if yes how much and why?
5. Anything else you want to add.

 

[gamerluke]

I would tension it all at 35, pulling each twice (if on a lockout) if you feel like that's more accurate, then let the customer tell you if they think it's too tight or too loose and adjust accordingly next time.

If the customer actually gave you those requirements, they sound like quite a pill. At least in racquetball, anyone who asks you to maintain a certain racquet length as a stringing requirement is pretty..."abnormal".

Besides, if the requirement is a certain tension on both the crosses and mains, there's nothing you can do about the finished racquet length anyway. If it's not 22" +- 1/8", you'd have to give them a tension other than what they asked for.

 

[Irvin]

To begin with I don't string mang racketball rackets. You may want to pre-stretch the string. When stringing I would pull the main with a 10% (maybe 15% - that's only 5 lbs) pre-stretch. This should help to overcome the friction in the throat from the power channel. If you don't have pre-stretch you may want to put a small tug on the string connected to the tensioner before clamping and re pull if using a LO. For the cross strings same thing. There is a lot of friction in the crosses and the prestretch will help overcome that. For tie offs I would increase tension 4 lbs on the last two strings. 4 lbs because that is the default value on my machine I assume there is a reason.

But I would not just do this I would have discussed it with the customer before I ever accepted his racket. Especially the part about not being familiar with racketball rackets. If it was not OK with him he could take it somewhere else sound like a pain anyway.

EDIT: BTW I'm not going to argue with you, but there is no way the customer that check to see if the tension on the mains and crosses is 35lbs.

 

[lionel_101]

gamerluke,

I believe you just got the stringer's digest and it suppose to have info on many racquetball racquets. Can you look thru the digest and see if this Head racquet is in it and what stringing information it provides.

It would be interesting to see if it has any thing about what tension to use when tensioning 2 main strings at one time.

Thanks

 

[lwto]

gamerluke,

I believe you just got the stringer's digest and it suppose to have info on many racquetball racquets. Can you look thru the digest and see if this Head racquet is in it and what stringing information it provides.

It would be interesting to see if it has any thing about what tension to use when tensioning 2 main strings at one time.

Thanks

It wouldn't matter.
You would clamp one off, pull tension on the other. Same as you do on your tennis racquet.

What you can do if your edge strings are a concern to you is do a Yonex loop and it would hold tension on the outisde string better.

I've done quite a few RBR's and I don't see and can't think of why it couldn't be done.

At 35 pounds, it's all going to feel pretty loose anyway.

 

[lionel_101]

It wouldn't matter.
You would clamp one off, pull tension on the other. Same as you do on your tennis racquet.

What you can do if your edge strings are a concern to you is do a Yonex loop and it would hold tension on the outisde string better.

I've done quite a few RBR's and I don't see and can't think of why it couldn't be done.

At 35 pounds, it's all going to feel pretty loose anyway.

Sorry, I don't understand your response. You can't clamp one main string off, as there are no grommet holes at the throat that will let you pull tension and clamp off.

Am I wrong in thinking that when you pull two main strings at the head, that the tension in both mains will be lower then what you set it at on the tensioner.

If I am wrong, then why not just string all the mains on one side, pull tension, clamp and then tie off. And then do the other side the same way.

So maybe a better question is, if I have to pull two main strings from the head of the racquet and want 35 lbs on each main string after clamping, what do I set the tensioner at? 35lbs, 40lbs, 45lbs or some thing else.

 

[Irvin]

You're not wrong each bend you make around the frame introduces friction and reduces the amount of tension on the string that is not pulled directly.

 

[gamerluke]

gamerluke,

I believe you just got the stringer's digest and it suppose to have info on many racquetball racquets. Can you look thru the digest and see if this Head racquet is in it and what stringing information it provides.

It would be interesting to see if it has any thing about what tension to use when tensioning 2 main strings at one time.

Thanks

I've actually strung this racquet before using the instructions from RbW and they appear to be the same as what's in the digest. It has you double pulling the mains and pulling over or under on the crosses.

I watched a racquetball stringer at a tournament and on the crosses, he actually would wrap the string over the top of the frame and tension on the opposite side. Not sure that's a great idea because of possible frame damage, but it was interesting.

 

[lwto]

Sorry, I don't understand your response. You can't clamp one main string off, as there are no grommet holes at the throat that will let you pull tension and clamp off.

Am I wrong in thinking that when you pull two main strings at the head, that the tension in both mains will be lower then what you set it at on the tensioner.

If I am wrong, then why not just string all the mains on one side, pull tension, clamp and then tie off. And then do the other side the same way.

So maybe a better question is, if I have to pull two main strings from the head of the racquet and want 35 lbs on each main string after clamping, what do I set the tensioner at? 35lbs, 40lbs, 45lbs or some thing else.

Your just talking about a post that the mains wrap around on the bottom?
Well I do those and I pull tension on the bottom, clamp it down, pull the next main up, clamp it on top.

WHen I pull tension on the bottom, there is no grommet hole, the string just goes from the top right into the tensioner. (would be a good place for a (forget what its called...zamboinie?).. but it works fine that way.
On the first few, I make sure I steady the racquet so it doesnt wiggle, but since there is only, what 35lbs, it's not a problem.

 

[gamerluke]

Your just talking about a post that the mains wrap around on the bottom?
Well I do those and I pull tension on the bottom, clamp it down, pull the next main up, clamp it on top.

WHen I pull tension on the bottom, there is no grommet hole, the string just goes from the top right into the tensioner. (would be a good place for a (forget what its called).. but it works fine.

No, it's "IGS" or "internal grommet system". The string doesn't go through the frame at all, there's an internal channel that routes the string back up toward the head of the racquet.

 

[Irvin]

Your just talking about a post that the mains wrap around on the bottom?
Well I do those and I pull tension on the bottom, clamp it down, pull the next main up, clamp it on top...

Not quite four strings go into one point in the power channel and four come out the other side.

It may be ok when you pull the first string down but not on the second, third, and fourth. It looks like this:

http://tinyurl.com/lcn6p5q

Then the top 7 crosses have a grommet that goes through the racket but the bottom 9 do not.

EDIT: He may be able to clamp the string farther up the racket where there is some separation (about where the bottom crosses will be) but the OP has an X-2 (flying clamps) I think so there is another problem.

 

[xiaobo]

Hi advanced tennis and racquetball stringers.

I have a common Head racquetball racquet that have the exact same stringing pattern as other head racquets. It is the Head Submission and has the following main specs.

16 Mains / 16 Crosses, Two Piece Stringing, String Tension: 31-37 pounds, power channels in the throat for the mains and IGS system for the crosses.

There are no grommets in the throat area, just a power channel that loops the string around and back up to the head of the racquet for each main. Thus you have to pull 2 mains at a time.

The crosses uses regular grommets at the top and the IGS system further down. The IGS requires you to tension the string either above or below the frame and clamping before you can insert it into the IGS channel and then coming out at the next cross location.

The customer wants a final tension of 35 lbs on both crosses and mains and doesn't want the main strings on the ends to feel to loose. Your task is how to tension the mains and crosses to achieve this and still have the racquet remain it's original length of 22 inches within 1/8 of an inch.

1. What tension would you use when pulling the 2 mains and why?
2. Would you add more tension on the main pull for the tie-off and if yes how much and why ?
3. What tension would you use when pulling the crosses and why ?
4. Would you add more tension on the last cross pull for the tie-off and if yes how much and why?
5. Anything else you want to add.

Lionel:

Head IGS string pattern is a pain of neck to string against. I used to have a Head Liquid Metal 190 racquet as my backup one. I strung it once and hate it so I sold it in cheap price.

Your questions are tough to answer and almost impossible to achieve if your customer wants a final tension of 35 lbs. How is he going to measure it anyway? My understanding is that all stringbed tension measurement is relative. If he is your long time customer, then you may start with 35 lbs at first, then make adjustments accordingly based on his feedback. If not, I would suggest you to let him find another stringer.

Just my 2 cents.

Xiaobo.

 

[Ken Sachar]

Lionel

Just did a head problem child with similar stringing pattern and igs frame for crosses and power channel throat.

Strung at 35# mains and crosses.

Used my 24" micrometer to measure between center mains and max width of crosses. Center main spacing was very close (within .020 inch) unstrung versus strung. Crosses however were .120 inch narrower after stringing than unstrung. I did double pull (pull two at a time) mains.

Resulting tension averaged 34 pounds with string meter.

My notes for next restringing say to drop the cross tension to 33# and see if i can get the width after stringing closer to unstrung width. Maybe in your case, shooting for 35# average, i would try 37# mains and 33 or 34# crosses.

Just my thoughts if i ever have to string another one of these nasty racquets.

 

[lionel_101]

Thanks all for your comments.

I just wish the racquet companies would disclose or document on exactly how the factory string their racquets and at what tensions. Especially for the weird racquets that require pulling 2 mains from the head of the racquet only.

E-force is the only one that I know of that sort of gives you some very vague information like the following on the stringing instruction sheet.

"Finished Tension recommended is 28-32lbs. Most stringing machines may require a higher reference tension, e.g. 35lbs, to have a finished tension of 28-32lbs"

Besides the above information, you are on you own on how to get it close to the tension the customer wants to have after it is strung.

In my case, right or wrong, I follow what I was told by the E-force support person (that no one at E-force claims ever existed) about adding tension when pulling 2 mains at one time and have applied it to all other racquets that I do.

So, far it is working out for those I string for and they are happy with the results, so it must be in the ballpark of the tension they are use too.

 

[lionel_101]

Ken,

I didn't understand much of what you were saying, but it sounds like if I add just 2 more pounds to the 35 lbs when pulling 2 mains at once, then it will equal out to 35 lbs on all the mains.

Irvin might know, but if anyone one else can comment on if there is a suggested percentage one should increase the desired tension on the mains when pulling 2 mains at once at the head of a racquet?

Example, if I want a desire tension of 35, should I increase it by 5% or 10% or some other percentage.

My rule of thumb when double pulling mains is to increase the tension by 5 lbs no matter what the desired tension wanted is. This could be way off base, even if the customer(s) think the racquet plays and feels just fine.

 

[Irvin]

I don't think you're going to get 35 lbs tensiion on two strings pulling only one string. You may be able to get close if you can adjust you pre-stretch but the OP has an X2.

EDIT: "Image is everything," some tennis player said that.

 

[Ken Sachar]

Lionel

My response previously was intended to suggest how I would adjust tensions between mains and crosses to minimize distortion of the frame unstrung versus strung.

If achieving a higher tension when double pulling (two strings on one pull) was the goal, I would use the pre-tension button on my Wise tension head. When set at 10% (the lowest pre-tension) I think I have realized a pound or two increase on racquets that do require pulling two string each pull. This at ~35 pounds.

I am using a Gamma 6004 with the Wise.

 

[lionel_101]

Lionel

My response previously was intended to suggest how I would adjust tensions between mains and crosses to minimize distortion of the frame unstrung versus strung.

If achieving a higher tension when double pulling (two strings on one pull) was the goal, I would use the pre-tension button on my Wise tension head. When set at 10% (the lowest pre-tension) I think I have realized a pound or two increase on racquets that do require pulling two string each pull. This at ~35 pounds.

I am using a Gamma 6004 with the Wise.

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I am a pretty simple minded guy and a lot of what the Experts here say about tensioning is way over my head.

I have a cheap X-2 to string my racquets and for my friends at the club that I try and save some money for. I don't understand the concept of pre-tensioning or why they even have it on expensive machine.

Having failed in physics and failed at college in general, I can only go with what makes some sort of sense to me in my head. Thus, if you pull 1 main at a certain tension, how can 2 mains be the same tension if pulled at once. To me you need to add more tension and after you tie off, it will all even out some how.

That is why, I think the manufacturer should put out how they string their racquets at the factory. If the stringing requires pulling 2 mains at the head of the racquet at once, then include a guideline as to how to figure out what tension to use to compensate for it, if any at all.

Anyways, I am probably going to keep doing it my way, since everyone I string for likes the results and the low cost, including a few Open level players.

 

[Irvin]

... Unfortunately, I am a pretty simple minded guy and a lot of what the Experts here say about tensioning is way over my head.

I have a cheap X-2 to string my racquets and for my friends at the club that I try and save some money for. I don't understand the concept of pre-tensioning or why they even have it on expensive machine.

Having failed in physics and failed at college in general, I can only go with what makes some sort of sense to me in my head. Thus, if you pull 1 main at a certain tension, how can 2 mains be the same tension if pulled at once. To me you need to add more tension and after you tie off, it will all even out some how...

Pre-stretching is pretty simple it pulls at a higher tension initially. So let's assume you tension @ 35# and have a 10% pre-stretch. Initially the string you're tensioning is pulled @ 38.5# (35 + 10%.) maybe the other string will be pulled at 35 but it will be pulled ~3# higher than if you did not have a prestretch. Then the tension drops to the set tension of 35#. If the pre-stretch was enough to pull the previous string @ 35# then they are both at 35#, if not maybe more or less prestretch is needed.

 

[lionel_101]

Pre-stretching is pretty simple it pulls at a higher tension initially. So let's assume you tension @ 35# and have a 10% pre-stretch. Initially the string you're tensioning is pulled @ 38.5# (35 + 10%.) maybe the other string will be pulled at 35 but it will be pulled ~3# higher than if you did not have a prestretch. Then the tension drops to the set tension of 35#. If the pre-stretch was enough to pull the previous string @ 35# then they are both at 35#, if not maybe more or less prestretch is needed.

Thanks Irvin, I think I got the idea now, just don't know how to implement it.

My X-2 doesn't have a pre-stretch feature, so how would I simulate that function on my X-2. I gather people with crank machines are in the same boat.

Do I set my drop weight for 10% more of the tension I want and then pull and clamp and then set my drop weight back to the tension I want, put the string back in the tensioner, release the clamp, tension it again, get it level and then clamp it off again.

Or am I just plain out of luck.

 

[Irvin]

Thanks Irvin, I think I got the idea now, just don't know how to implement it.

My X-2 doesn't have a pre-stretch feature, so how would I simulate that function on my X-2. I gather people with crank machines are in the same boat.

Do I set my drop weight for 10% more of the tension I want and then pull and clamp and then set my drop weight back to the tension I want, put the string back in the tensioner, release the clamp, tension it again, get it level and then clamp it off again.

Or am I just plain out of luck.

If you continue to move the drop weight back and forth you're in for a very long process. When you tension at +10% with the bar level how do you get back to level at reference? You're going to have to re-engineer your X2 to do that. Possible but not easy. There is no easy way to accomplish what your customer wants you to do with an X2. It would be difficult on any machine to say the least.

 

[Martin Creasey]

I'm pretty new to stringing and do mostly badminton rackets. But I've been given a head racquetball racket with internal grommets to restring. What a nightmare. I've reverse engineered the strings to work out a stringing pattern. Any tips from anyone, especially on how to tension where there are no external grommet holes? http://www.racquetworld.com/merchan...ures/racquets/miva5/head16/radicalpro16fp.jpg

 

[am1899]

^^ If it's anything like the Eforce racquet I strung a few years back (which the throat on this one does look similar) the instructions would probably have you double pulling the mains at the head only.

Edit - You might have better luck calling Head customer service - they should be able to send you the pattern. Last time I called them (which was quite a few years back, so this may have changed)...I called 1-(800) 289-7366 and it was option 2.

 

[Martin Creasey]

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately an 0800 call from the UK is not viable. I got a reply from head to an email. They sent an irrelevant tennis string pattern.

 

[am1899]

Oops sorry about that - didn't realize you were in the U.K. +44 1539 724740 appears to be the listed phone number for Head in the U.K...

 

[esgee48]

Racquetball racquets were never designed to be restrung. That's my private opinion and I will defend it to the bitter end by NEVER admitting to doing one.

In pulling 2 mains at once with a turn at the throat, I would think the issue is akin to trying to remove friction ala crosses. I haven't tried this with an RBR, but this is what I would do. Loop the string thru the head down to the throat and back up. I would then pinch the strings together to see if I could equalize the tension in both strings. A simple ping test on each string would tell you if you were close or far apart. Keep pinching until they are close as you can get it. I would not do a pre stretch, but use only ref tension. Since questioner has a DW, this should be feasible.

 

[am1899]

^^ Agreed but there may be more to the pattern than just double pulling the mains - sometimes the order in which the mains are laced is rather unintuitive (at least from my prespective, stringing mostly tennis racquets).

 

[Martin Creasey]

So I've finished the job now and it's come out well. Customer especially liked my choice of electric blue Ashaway strings.

As suggested above, the biggest challenge (apart from the string pattern which I reverse engineered) was getting equal tension when pulling two strings at once through the throat channels. The throat channel friction causes a lot of tension loss in the second string. I dealt with this by pulling the second string towards the throat until the "ping" was similar.

As for the mains, I did the weave and stopped short of the frame, then applied tension from beneath using the turntable brake, as otherwise the turntable tried to skew away from the correct position. I then clamped near the frame and threaded the string through the internal hole before applying tension again on the other side before the next weave. It took a longish time but any other way would have led to very unsatisfactory discrepancies in string tension between adjacent strings.

Incidentally the reason this was given to me was that the factory Head strings were in any case very poor quality, but also that the string tension was so low that the strings slid around after every shot. I reckon the factory string was about 20 lbs. My re string was at 34 lb which seemed much better.

 

[struggle]

pm me your digits. when i get a racketball stringjob i'll ship it to you.

 

[am1899]

Glad to hear it worked out.