Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by zapvor, Jul 7, 2011.
Did you saw the match between Federer and Cilic? I could swear Fed was using a bigger head racquet.
Djokovic never used a 93, he never used the KBlade Tour if that's what you are implying.
Dude, Djokovic has used the exact same size racquet since he was a junior. He doesn't use a 100 now and he's never used a 93. Ever heard of paintjobs? He hasn't used a retail racquet in forever.
Both Gasquet and Wawrinka have extreme grips and are basically clay court players that stand way behind the baseline and hit the ball after they drop. Federer stands ON the baseline and hits the ball on the rise. COMPLETELY different styles!!! How long have you been playing tennis?
Oh, and who has won more Slams? Federer or Gasquet or Warwrinka? I guess a bigger racquet must work better, right? :???:
Nope, same 90 sq. in. racquet. Here's a pic from his match versus Cilic yesterday:
Ok so I actually handled and got a (very brief) hit with what I was told was this racquet today as a blacked out prototype. Coach had this for a hit from Wilson contact. Supposedly a prototype of "the new Fed Frame". Please bear in mind that I only have this on his authority. It appears legit however. Pics are with an old iphone so apologies for quality but it was what was available.
Definitely a bigger headsize than that 90 but not by much. Very reminiscent of the Tour 95 in particular the throat and box beam and appears to be the same mould from what I could tell, the throat section is different from the K90 for sure. It was also very light (289 unstrung) and appeared to have thicker beam (say 20mm). My feeling is that this was perhaps a prototype for customisation or similar. The chap was very nervous that someone would see me hit with it so I only got to hit about ten balls. Stiffer and more power than the K90. Good feel. Whippy. Pics and specs below
Throat section above the handle:
Specs (note that I have blanked out the racquet#, chap didn't really want me taking pics at all):
Second post with rest of pics:
Rest of Specs:
Very very interesting, stiffer than K90 is what, around 70?
Wow, they have frequency in specs, 157! Which puts it way above BLX90, 141 Hz/63 RDC, BLX95 and BLX Blade Tour, 149 Hz/68 RDC
Yeah sorry about that, bit of an imageshack issue for some reason with the original posts. Fixed the pics now.
Appears to be around 93 sq. in.
I wonder why the string pattern is 16x18? I would think since the head is bigger, Federer would want the string pattern to be at least the same as his K90, which is 16x19, or something a bit denser.
lol, I don't always go straight to the pj talk. I think people WANT it to be a pj alot of the time than the racquet actually being a pj.
And I said wawrinka and gasquet don't have near the skill as Federer and they do just fine without a 90in racquet. So to say Federer shouldn't use a racquet bigger than his 90 is dumb.
Federer could come out an straight up say, "I can't use a 90 anymore. I'm switching to a Babolat PD."
you'd immediately claim he's lying and it's a pj.
93 seems about right. Given the type of difference we are talking about it could have been either a 93 or a 95. Was definitely bigger than a 90 and seemed very close to the 6.1s that I placed over them. But then we are talking 2sq inches. I also thought that re the 16*18. To be honest I was more surprised by the weight than anything, swung VERY light for a "Tour" mould frame.
Are you sure it's the tour mold and not the team or 93 mold? My wilson rep warned me of a 90, 93-95, and 100 coming out in Box-beam Fed style.
Um...it's a fact that Djokovoc has been using paintjobs for many years. If you knew anything about racquets, it would be beyond any shadow of a doubt. Heck, Djokovic even admitted he used a paintjob in an interview.
Yeah, neither Gasquet nor Warwrinka are as skilled as Federer (as you claim) so THAT'S WHY they need to use bigger racquets. Just like most recreational players need to use bigger racquets. Federer has enough skill to use a 90, obviously. YOU may not be able to handle a 90, but somehow I think Federer may have a bit more skill than you do. :???:
Oh, and don't worry, Federer will NEVER use a Babolat PD, guaranteed. For one thing, he has a lifetime contract with Wilson, and for another thing, he would have to change his game to play more like Nadal to effectively use a PD, which he will never, ever do - guaranteed.
I understand most pro stock frames are made very light on purpose so that each pro can customize the weight and balance to each's own liking.
No not sure by any stretch. Felt that way but I had nothing to compare it with so hard to be sure. I would say this was the 93-95 if there are to be multiple versions. The 100 should be interesting, first box beamed 100?
Yes agreed but you would have thought someone would have done something to it i.e. it wouldn't be in raw form at this point given that the handle was on it. Still be interesting to see how the finished product comes out.
The only thing isthe thicker beam....
Hey Breakpoint, did Sampras have a lifetime contract with Wilson?
Ok guys, this is a quite a bit speculative but...Could the "Si" spec at the end of the row refer to head size = square inches, and the number "621" be the head size in cm2? If so, 621 cm2 would equal a 96.25 square inch head size.
If so,Federer doesnt need a bigger racquet
I never saw him playing so well,with very few unforced errors(and Cilic was playing one of his best games),from a long time.Thats why I was trying to see a bigger head racquet in his hands but it isnt the case.
Hey there, that is the "team" version of the new line that you got to hit with.Pretty cool...Same weight as always(289 grams unstrung) same headsize(95 inch) but this time around there will be 2 different string patterns available,namely the "normal" 18/20 and the "new" 16/18 that you tested.
Hey, it makes sense that it is stiffer with that Thicker Beam. That beam looks definitely thicker than the old Fed K90.
I am hoping Wilson would release 2 versions of this new racket. More powerful lighter version like one you hit with and more heavier Version that Federer will be using on Tour. but then fat chance of that happening.
Anyway, if this prototype is such Super Secret, don't you feel bad that you post the Pics all over the forum and internet. That POOR chap might get Fired because of this..........
Nope, never. Sampras didn't even have a annual contract with Wilson for most of his career. For most of his career, Sampras used his Wilson racquet without being paid or being paid a pittance! He used the PS 6.0 85 because he liked the racquet and not because he was being paid to use it. Wilson wanted him to use paintjobs but he refused so Wilson essentially stopped paying him.
But why did you assume that Federer (or any good player) would play better with a bigger racquet?
Very interesting, thanks for the extra info. I wasn't aware that there was a "Team" version currently of the box beam frames. I presume you mean the 6.1 Team and this new racquet would fall in a similar spot in their lineup. I thought it light personally so it would make sense that this would be a lighter version.
I always thought that Si with the Wilsons was "swing index" but I could be wrong. It could well be square inches and measured from the outside or something like that (similar to Head) which would make it a 95 equivalent.
Given the "Team" comment above you might just get what you asked for.
I'm sure that they might not be happy about it. That's why I blanked out the racquet#, there are a good few of these about from what he said.
Well, I think this benefits Wilson by getting some vital information before they take the racquets to production. Obviously the major gripe is the poor PJ scheme plus don't increase the beam width on the 90, try and keep it 17mm or smaller.
If you loose your concentration,a bigger head racquet helps you in fact that you dont need to be so focused on the ball(u need but not so much as a smaller racquet).
In Federer case,the last matches I saw him,he was shanking a lot,verry unconsistent;he doesnt have the concetration he used to have BUT in match vs Cilic he was IN the game.He played with so very few unnforced errors,and the backhand was magnific,that my mind didnt belive it was just concentration not a bigger racquet.
If you're not concentrating you're not going to hit a good shot anyway regardless of the size of your racquet.
Did you see him destroy Monaco tonight? Anyone who saw that entire match cannot seriously still think Federer needs a bigger racquet.
Federer plays better in the wind like Rafa plays better when the sun shines on him to give him the ability to use solarbeam at will.
Monaco is unseeded he better destroy him even with a $25 racquet. But yes he played great.
I didnt said no concentration at all,only that with a smaller racquet you have to be more focused on the ball than a bigger one.
I think you are right... my square inch to cm2 idea is probably too far out. Interestingly then, the swing index number 6.21 puts the racquet out of the 6.0 range. I guess it makes good sense if it is a "Team" version.
It's weird itsn't it, I can't make sense of it. For me the whole point of 6.0 and 6.1 is that this was the 'Si' of the frames so that puts it outside the 6.1 range also?? I think perhaps we are just reading too much into it and it's something like 'Series Indicator' for the prototype frames or some internal reference like that.
Monaco is ranked #36 so he just missed being seeded and has been as high as #14 in the world. He had also only lost one set in the entire tournament before he played Federer in the 4th round (a tiebreak to Haas in the 3rd round).
Golubev, who played Nadal in the 1st round, is ranked #98 in the world. How did Nadal perform against him with his 100 sq. in. APD?
Pros are always focused on the ball. They spend 8 hours a day every day focusing on tennis balls. If they can't focus on the tennis ball during a match, they would never make it as a pro anyway.
I don't think a lifetime contract matters. Sharapova had one with prince and she is with head now. There is probably a buy out clause on the contract or something. And the point of me saying that is YOU not accepting a possible change in equipment even if Federer, himself came out and said he is switching. YOU would deny and say he is lying and it's a paint job.
As for myself handling a 90. That's funny because I currently use a 90 and I am currently tweaking the weight of the racquet to fend off bigger hitters. Playing against guys who hit 130mph serves, as i currently do, I have to dial in some heft to the racquet i am using, so I don't have to muscle a ball back so much. I could say screw it and just play rec but I have bigger goals set for myself.
If Federer picked up a 93, 95 or even a 100 size racquet. Hell, lets say he picked up a exo 100 tour and played like he did in 07 and maybe even better. Why would it be so negative for him to change racquets?
If it doesn't make him play better, then all he would have to do is stay with the current 90.
But there is always a chance that it could make him play better. Regardless if you think bigger racquets don't effect a person's game for the better.
I'm counting 16 X 18 on the Hyer Pro Staff PJ's... Is that right? If that's accurate, when did he move to a 16 X 19 (using now). Is it time for him to switch back (the PS 85 also has a 16 X 18) ?????
Sharapova played with Head when she was a junior. Federer has always played with Wilson, even as a junior. He's not switching. I'm pretty sure he earns more money from Wilson than Sharapova ever did from Prince. And even if Federer did switch, I think the last racquet he would choose is a Babolat Pure Drive. He can't even keep his forehands in now with his Tour 90, why would he need a rocket launcher like the PD instead?
So you're saying that even YOU are good enough to handle a 90 sq. in. racquet but Federer isn't because he's a worse player than you so he needs to to move up to a bigger racquet? OK, gotcha! :???:
The first HPS paintjob is a PS 6.0 85 underneath so of course it has an 16x18 pattern. The second HPS paintjob is a Tour 90 underneath so it has the standard 16x19 pattern.
AbsolutTennis, yes, you are absolutely correct in your observations.
The 16x18 pattern racket you are referring to is the Wilson 6.0 85. The 85 was the only frame to receive the HPS 6.1 Silver W PJ.
The 16x19 is the 90 inch custom frame (or, as some believe, is actually the K90). This 90 inch version first received the HPS 6.0 Yellow W PJ, then the PST90, N90, K90, and currently, the BLX90 PJs.
Federer first made the switch to a 90 in the early part of 2002 (after the spring American hardcourt season).
If you're interested, I made a chart (with the help of martini1) that exhaustively captures all the various PJs/rackets used throughout Fed's grand slam his career. Here's a link if you're curious: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=384890
As for whether it's the right time for Federer to switch back, sorry, I wouldn't be the right person to speak on that ... only TMF himself knows what's best for his game! Cheers!
Fed's racquet is also quite wide, especially when compared to the prestige mid, so this may make a difference to its playability as a mid.
Haas has been a wounded chicken for the past few years....Nadal can't even sit straight. I'm all for Federer staying with the 90 or smaller racquet not bigger. My point is Monaco was a warm up for Federer not really much of a match if he were testing out racquets.
I see your point, but you have to remember that the tested frame is supposedly a "Team" version, and thus targeted at players further away from the from the 6.0's and 6.1's core market - allowing players with less developed strokes to "feel" like they are playing with an elitist racquet. I guess the Si number is calculated from X specs (weight, balance, swingweight and what not) of the racquet and since the Team is very low in weight I doesn't seem strange to me that it would differ in Si from the "Non-Team version" racquet if we for the sake of the argument says that it will be in the 6.1 (a la K "six-one" Tour) range. However It's likely that for marketing purposes it would still be named the Wilson "Something" 6.1 (six-one) Team...
Apparently you don't comprehend text very well. Because it was an example. I wasn't saying he should use a pd. I said if Federer came out and said he was going to use something so extreme like the PD, you wouldn't have it.
Again no. I responded to you saying I couldnt use a 90. Federer didn't know what was going wrong with his game for a while until about the French. If changing his racquet would have made him play better, what is the issue with him changing to a different size?
No, it is YOU who doesn't comprehend text very well. This has nothing to do with me nor my opinion. Federer will not be switching to a PD nor anything remotely like it. Period! If you think he would even consider it, then you obviously don't understand tennis very well.
So you think you know Federer's game and what he likes about his racquet more than he does? OK, I see. Pros don't blame their racquet when something is going wrong with their games. Only amateurs like you do that. Pros go out and practice more and work on their footwork and improve the mental and strategic aspects of their games. The racquet is the last thing on their minds.
Thanks for the info!
lol, do you know what an example is?
What does it mean when he, himself questions racquet switching?
Great chart faultfoot! Thanks for the info!
The way Federer is hitting and playing at the U.S. Open; it time for him to switch to a 110 size frame like every club player is using. That should make people happy, huh?
You're right. That tiny demanding 90 sq. in. racquet caused Federer to lose 3 whole games in his last round. If he had been using a 110 sq. in. racquet, he would have certainly triple-bageled Monaco.
Separate names with a comma.