Hydrogen Sports PROTON

[Subway Tennis]

Has there been any comment from the manufacturer about that small pole / spoke / leg at the front of the machine that is designed to change the launch angle of the device? It looks like it would dig into the court surface and damage it?

Does the app functionality allow you to "playlist" a very long hitting session with a lot of variation?

Also interested in that feeding mechanism that the machine uses. Does anyone know the minimum lag between balls that get fed out?

I've happily used a spinfire for years, so it's always interesting to see a new company come in offering a quality product at a more reasonable price than the traditional ball machine companies.

 

[TorontoTennis]

Has there been any comment from the manufacturer about that small pole / spoke / leg at the front of the machine that is designed to change the launch angle of the device? It looks like it would dig into the court surface and damage it?

I have not noticed any comment by Proton on whether it would dig in or not, but you raise a very good point that I had never thought of. The weight on that tip is 31 lbs (17 - lbs machine with battery + 11 lbs 100 ball capacity). The tip is narrower than the threaded shaft, which itself looks like about 1/2" in diameter. If the round tip is 1/4" in diameter then the 31 lbs on that tip is a 632 PSI force on the court surface. Would that be problematic on a hard court? It certainly would be an issue on grass and perhaps also on clay.

Does the app functionality allow you to "playlist" a very long hitting session with a lot of variation?

Yes, up to a sequence of 99 individually programmable shots.

Also interested in that feeding mechanism that the machine uses. Does anyone know the minimum lag between balls that get fed out?

2 secs (from the website). However, if you choose a shot sequence that does not allow the machine to change to the next desired speed, spin, height & horizontal shot angle ball parameters then the delay will be what is required to reach them. I don't see the the max interval listed anywhere.

I've happily used a spinfire for years, so it's always interesting to see a new company come in offering a quality product at a more reasonable price than the traditional ball machine companies.

Yes, I too have used my Spinfire for years now. I love it and they have the best support of any company I have ever dealt with. Once I sent them an email on a Sunday night and got a response right back the same night.

As for features, Proton could be a real game changer (no pun intended) at $1,595, but then you really need to get a second battery as it only lasts one hour so more like close to $1,700. However, they will go through growing pains and machine issues just like any other company. One aspect I don't like about it is you have to carry the machine, 100 balls, water bottle, racquet bag, pick-up basket all over your shoulder and in your hands. That's a 40+ lb weight that I would rather not have to carry from the parking lot to the court nor would my wife or kids. With the Spinfire I just roll the machine like luggage. Also I don't practice with my Spinfire with a heavy smartphone in my pocket nor do my wife kids and that's the only way to control the Proton. The Spinfire's remote is super small and lightweight. Also, I'd rather have a larger hopper like the Spinfire.

All in all though, I think the Proton will force other vendors to become more competitive... when it is eventually available for retail purchase.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I have not noticed any comment by Proton on whether it would dig in or not, but you raise a very good point that I had never thought of. The weight on that tip is 31 lbs (17 - lbs machine with battery + 11 lbs 100 ball capacity). The tip is narrower than the threaded shaft, which itself looks like about 1/2" in diameter. If the round tip is 1/4" in diameter then the 31 lbs on that tip is a 632 PSI force on the court surface. Would that be problematic on a hard court? It certainly would be an issue on grass and perhaps also on clay.



Yes, up to a sequence of 99 individually programmable shots.



2 secs (from the website). However, if you choose a shot sequence that does not allow the machine to change to the next desired speed, spin, height & horizontal shot angle ball parameters then the delay will be what is required to reach them.



Yes, I too have used my Spinfire for years now. I love it and they have the best support of any company I have ever dealt with. Once I sent them an email on a Sunday night and got a response right back the same night.

As for features, Proton could be a real game changer (no pun intended). However, they will go through growing pains and machine issues just like any other company.

Thanks for writing this out. Really interesting machine by the sound of things. Only issue for me now would be the resolution of that issue with the tip on the front (a rubber stopper might be a temporary workaround if it's an issue)

 

[TorontoTennis]

Thanks for writing this out. Really interesting machine by the sound of things. Only issue for me now would be the resolution of that issue with the tip on the front (a rubber stopper might be a temporary workaround if it's an issue)

I think they could deal with a possible court damage issue from that tip by re-engineering the tip but that has a ripple effect on the rest of the machine design. It could be a rubber stopper like you say. However, better still would be a metal disc attached to the tip that swiveled so that the face of the disc always remained parallel to the ground. A rubber surface could be affixed to the bottom of the disc. Otherwise if the disc did not swivel then as the machine tilted as the pin moved in or out then the disc would indeed start digging into the ground as just the edge of it would touch the ground. It would require a bit of fancy engineering to create that swivelling tip as it would require a hole to be drilled into the end of the rod and a pin to be inserted into it that was connected to the disc. The current rod thickness might not result in sufficient material left for to provide a robust solution after the hole was drilled. That would then require a thicker rod to be substituted, which means a different motor, which means the internal framework of the machine and the body would have to be revised. The list goes on and on. I wonder if the Proton designer thought of this issue you brought up?

 

[R1FF]

. One aspect I don't like about it is you have to carry the machine, 100 balls, water bottle, racquet bag, pick-up basket all over your shoulder and in your hands. That's a 40+ lb weight that I would rather not have to carry from the parking lot to the court nor would my wife or kids. With the Spinfire I just roll the machine like luggage. Also I don't practice with my Spinfire with a heavy smartphone in my pocket nor do my wife kids and that's the only way to control the Proton. The Spinfire's remote is super small and lightweight. Also, I'd rather have a larger hopper like the Spinfire.

This was how I was introduced to the Slingrbag.

I just saw a dude rolling it out onto the court. The bag was already full of balls. It held his racquet. It was soft fabric so it stored/transported easy in a vehicle just like a very large tennis bag. Looked very convenient for the reasons you listed.

Turns out the Slingr is pretty limited to being a feeder.

Still gotta carry a ball basket either way. Be it proton, Slingr or spinfire.

Compact size of the proton was a huge selling point for me.

That Spinfire looks nice. I might have to give it a try. Considerably more expensive than the other two options tho.

 

[JEDI MASTER]

I have not noticed any comment by Proton on whether it would dig in or not, but you raise a very good point that I had never thought of. The weight on that tip is 31 lbs (17 - lbs machine with battery + 11 lbs 100 ball capacity). The tip is narrower than the threaded shaft, which itself looks like about 1/2" in diameter. If the round tip is 1/4" in diameter then the 31 lbs on that tip is a 632 PSI force on the court surface. Would that be problematic on a hard court? It certainly would be an issue on grass and perhaps also on clay.
Yes, up to a sequence of 99 individually programmable shots.
2 secs (from the website). However, if you choose a shot sequence that does not allow the machine to change to the next desired speed, spin, height & horizontal shot angle ball parameters then the delay will be what is required to reach them. I don't see the the max interval listed anywhere.
Yes, I too have used my Spinfire for years now. I love it and they have the best support of any company I have ever dealt with. Once I sent them an email on a Sunday night and got a response right back the same night.
As for features, Proton could be a real game changer (no pun intended) at $1,595, but then you really need to get a second battery as it only lasts one hour so more like close to $1,700. However, they will go through growing pains and machine issues just like any other company. One aspect I don't like about it is you have to carry the machine, 100 balls, water bottle, racquet bag, pick-up basket all over your shoulder and in your hands. That's a 40+ lb weight that I would rather not have to carry from the parking lot to the court nor would my wife or kids. With the Spinfire I just roll the machine like luggage. Also I don't practice with my Spinfire with a heavy smartphone in my pocket nor do my wife kids and that's the only way to control the Proton. The Spinfire's remote is super small and lightweight. Also, I'd rather have a larger hopper like the Spinfire.

All in all though, I think the Proton will force other vendors to become more competitive... when it is eventually available for retail purchase.

as for the battery.. I saw this machine up close during a local demo last spring.
the battery is interchangeable.. readily available at Home Depot or Lowes.. uses power tool battery.

I might have to dump my old Black N Decker 18V tools and get new tools..

 

[TorontoTennis]

Yes the battery can be swapped as I already mentioned. However, although Proton describes it as a 'drill battery' they are speaking about the form factor and the fact that they describe it as such does not necessarily mean that you can just buy one at Home Depot or Lowes and it will work. It may well be the case but Proton has not said that. First of all it's an 18V lithium, not a 12V and it also has to have the same connector. Also a 3rd party battery may may not give the same running time as one you buy from Proton as that is dependent on the cells inside the battery, of which there are many different grades, some very good and some dismal.

 

[TorontoTennis]

This was how I was introduced to the Slingrbag.

I just saw a dude rolling it out onto the court. The bag was already full of balls. It held his racquet. It was soft fabric so it stored/transported easy in a vehicle just like a very large tennis bag. Looked very convenient for the reasons you listed.

Turns out the Slingr is pretty limited to being a feeder.

Still gotta carry a ball basket either way. Be it proton, Slingr or spinfire.

Compact size of the proton was a huge selling point for me.

That Spinfire looks nice. I might have to give it a try. Considerably more expensive than the other two options tho.

More expensive than Proton yes, but you can't buy a Proton. Way more expensive than Slingerbag, but other than shooting a ball it has almost zero features. Love my Spinfire.

 

[bobleenov1963]

More expensive than Proton yes, but you can't buy a Proton. Way more expensive than Slingerbag, but other than shooting a ball it has almost zero features. Love my Spinfire.

How is the Spinfire PRO 2 compare with the Lobster Elite Grandslam V? From the website, it looks like the Spinfire PRO 2 is around $2200 versus $2600 for the lobster grand V LE.

As mentioned before, I don't like both the Spinfire PRO 2 and the lobster Elite Grand 5 LE because they are bulky. and does not fit in the trunk of my sedan. Just got rid of my lobster grand V LE for less than half the cost of the new one because my kids stop playing tennis and they are now playing golf. I am very happy that my lobster ball machine gets a new home. I am waiting for the proton to be shipped to early buyers.

 

[R1FF]

as for the battery.. I saw this machine up close during a local demo last spring.
the battery is interchangeable.. readily available at Home Depot or Lowes.. uses power tool battery.

I might have to dump my old Black N Decker 18V tools and get new tools..

What brand battery? I have a ton of DeWalt power tools.

 

[JEDI MASTER]

What brand battery? I have a ton of DeWalt power tools.

good question.. I forgot to ask..

 

[TorontoTennis]

Proton has missed multiple promised delivery dates. Before this summer, it was promised this past spring. Etc.

The frustrating thing is the excuses keep changing.

Let's be fair to the guy. I have snapshots of his website. He never promised Spring. It was always Summer 2020.

 

[bobleenov1963]

The Spinfire Pro 2 is $2,199 with remote and external/internal battery or AC. The Lobster Elite V LE is $2,998 as they charge extra for remote and external battery- $800 difference.

Please spare me about the price difference. What I would like to know is: What does the Spinfire PRO 2 have in features that the lobster Elite Grandslam V LE does not?
I can think of one in the lobster V LE has that I don't know if spinfire PRO 2 has. The ability to do place 18 different ball locations for Grand Five LE:

 

[Spinfire]

Please spare me about the price difference.

We appreciate you view. However, we feel it is important to correct the inaccuracy in your price comparison for the benefit of the many other readers of this forum.

What I would like to know is: What does the Spinfire PRO 2 have in features that the lobster Elite Grandslam V LE does not?
I can think of one in the lobster V LE has that I don't know if spinfire PRO 2 has. The ability to do place 18 different ball locations for Grand Five LE:

There are many but unfortunately we are unable to satisfy your request in this particular venue. We had posted a lengthy comparison between the two machines the other day on this thread but it was deleted by the forum moderator because they deemed it to be 'advertising'.. Perhaps others can chime in that are not restricted as we are.

 

[blablavla]

Please spare me about the price difference. What I would like to know is: What does the Spinfire PRO 2 have in features that the lobster Elite Grandslam V LE does not?
I can think of one in the lobster V LE has that I don't know if spinfire PRO 2 has. The ability to do place 18 different ball locations for Grand Five LE:

what is the price point of the Grand Five LE?

try comparing apples with apples and not apples with pasta.
you might know that some people have allergies to gluten.
and if you compare apples to cheese you need to keep in mind that some people have allergy to lactose.
so, apples to apples is a better comparison.

 

[R1FF]

Let's be fair to the guy. I have snapshots of his website. He never promised Spring. It was always Summer 2020.

I was being fair when I mentioned he seems honest & communication is good.

But it hasn’t always been Summer 2020. It was Spring when I prepaid for mine.

 

[bobleenov1963]

We appreciate you view. However, we feel it is important to correct the inaccuracy in your price comparison for the benefit of the many other readers of this forum.

There are many but unfortunately we are unable to satisfy your request in this particular venue. We had posted a lengthy comparison between the two machines the other day on this thread but it was deleted by the forum moderator because they deemed it to be 'advertising'.. Perhaps others can chime in that are not restricted as we are.

Spinfire Pro 2 is a very good machine and Lobster Elite Grand V LE is a GREAT machine.

I did my research a few years ago on both before deciding on the lobster Elite Grand V LE, based on this result from Tennis Warehouse Australia: https://www.**********************/lobster-elite-grand-5-vs-spinfire-pro-2.html

Lobster grand V LE costs $5699 AUD versus $3195 AUD for Spinfire PRO 2. In other words, the lobster cost 44% more than Spinfire Pro 2.

The one that stood out for me is the "pre-loaded drills" and "customized drills" on the lobster that Spinfire PRO 2 does not have. To me, that's why the lobster is more expensive. With the lobster, you can have the remote control app on the iphone so I do not need to have a physical remote control. Is that available on Spinfire PRO 2?

Sadly, both machines are bulky and heavy. The lobster does not fit in trunk of my Lexus IS350 sedan. I got rid of it recently for 1/3 of the cost and wait for the proton.

Edit: The Lobster also come with a fast charger, and storage cover. Both of these are optional in Spinfire PRO 2. Furthermore, 3 years warranty for lobster versus 2 years for Spinfire PRO 2 is a big difference because machines tend to break down after the 2nd year.

It seems like there are much more features with the lobster and spinfire PRO 2? does it justify a 44% price increase? That's something buyers will have to decide. IMHO, it does. I don't think the proton even has this feature. I just prefer the proton because it is much lighter than both of these beasts

 

[R1FF]

The Proton still seems like the only practical portable option. If it works and if it ever is released.

The rest mentioned in this thread seem great in their own right. But only really practical if I owned my own court.

Anyone willing to spend thousands on a ball machine, is obviously serious about tennis. Which means they go to the courts often. And as often as I go, the bulk & hassle of some of these units would drive me nuts.

Solution? Build my own court LOL.

 

[TorontoTennis]

The one that stood out for me is the "pre-loaded drills" and "customized drills" on the lobster that Spinfire PRO 2 does not have. To me, that's why the lobster is more expensive.

Actually the Spinfire Pro 2 has many pre-loaded drills. Not sure why you think it does not. I use them all the time: Single-Line Drill, 2-Line Drill (Narrow, Medium, Wide) Horizontal Drill (Medium, Wide), All those 6 Drills can be combined with Vertical Oscillation and with the Horizontal Drill it creates a random player mode. Then on top of that the angle of the machine can be varied up to 60 degrees to create lob-style drills. The difference with Lobster is that the Lobster has more drills and add some of your own. That's it. The problem though is that those extra drills are really watered down because the ball direction on the Lobster is predictable and it isn't on the Spinfire.. The Lobster points in the direction of the ball whereas the Spinfire never moves regardless of which direction the balls is shot. That's huge. When I play tennis my partner doesn't tell me which direction to run. It doesn't make any sense at all to be warned of the ball direction. Also, the customized drills on the Lobster can only be for 6 balls and then the pattern just repeats itself. The $800 premium of the Lobster Grand V LE over the Pro 2 was not worth for me just to be able to program only 6 balls and get a few more pre-loaded drills with the machine telling you which way to run. Of course I cannot argue if you think it is worth it. Everyone has different budgets and what they value more.

With the lobster, you can have the remote control app on the iphone so I do not need to have a physical remote control. Is that available on Spinfire PRO 2?

I haven't heard of that being available on the Pro 2, but I don't feel like unlocking a phone and tapping an app to control the machine every time I want to change a setting, not to mention having a heavy smartphone in my tennis shorts while I run around the court, possibly dropping it and breaking it as I keep taking it out of my pocket. I can't even tell the Pro 2 remote is in my pocket as it weighs nothing and it's less than 100 bucks to replace if I break it. The battery lasts months unlike a smartphone so I don't have to worry about the remote dying while on the court. Also I don't have to unlock it or have my attention change focus because of a phone call, text message, email, tweet, chirp and what have you. Of course each to his own. Great if you think using a smartphone is preferable. Also, if you have small kids using the ball machine like I do you are really going to think twice handing them a smartphone to use as a remote.

Sadly, both machines are bulky and heavy. The lobster does not fit in trunk of my Lexus IS350 sedan. I got rid of it recently for 1/3 of the cost and wait for the proton.

True, it's heavy but hardly taxing on my body. I lift it 2 feet up into my SUV and 2 feet down and just bring in the small battery to charge and leave the machine in the car. Not a huge hardship I don't think (for me anyway). Would be nice if it was a bit smaller, but its hardly huge. I'll keep using my ball machine until something better comes along. For me it's not the Proton. Even with the feature set that is better than any machine out there I see too many other negatives for my liking. They could have made it totally awesome but didn't. Maybe that will be the next model they come out with.

Edit: The Lobster also come with a fast charger, and storage cover. Both of these are optional in Spinfire PRO 2. Furthermore, 3 years warranty for lobster versus 2 years for Spinfire PRO 2 is a big difference because machines tend to break down after the 2nd year.

I don't know where you live but that is not the case in the USA where I live. The warranty is 2 years for both Lobster & Spinfire and neither come with a fast charger or storage cover included. Just to be clear, Lobster calls the charger that is included with the Grand V LE a 'fast charger' yet it takes 9 hours to charge an empty battery. That's hardly a fast charger if my Spinfire Standard Charger take only 11 hours to charge an empty battery that has more capacity than the one Lobster provides. So the Lobster fast charger hardly faster than Spinfire's Standard Charger. Spinfire's Fast Charger, which I also have, is actually a fast charger as it only takes 4 hours to charge the larger empty battery. That's less than 1/2 the time of Lobsters so-called 'fast' charger. A fair bit of puffery there on Lobster's behalf. Yes Lobster has a premium charger that charges their smaller capacity battery from empty in 3 hours but you need to pony up $149 for it. Spinfire's fast charger charges their larger capacity battery in 4-hrs and costs only $99.

It seems like there are much more features with the lobster and spinfire PRO 2? does it justify a 44% price increase? That's something buyers will have to decide. IMHO, it does. I don't think the proton even has this feature. I just prefer the proton because it is much lighter than both of these beasts

What feature are you talking about that the Proton does not have that the Lobster does?

 

[bobleenov1963]

@TorontoTennis: One other thing I forgot to mention is the interval of 2-10 seconds versus 2-15 seconds, between the lobster and Spinfire PRO 2, respectively. Just another thing to keep in mind when deciding between lobster and Spinfire Pro 2.

For me personally, the size of the machine is the difference. Both of them are quite heavy and can not fit into the trunk of a Sedan like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc.. They require something like a small SUV to transport. I am getting older so it is not easy for me to lift them up and down from the SUV. I'll wait for the proton. In the meantime, I am playing golf

 

[TorontoTennis]

You don't need an SUV. It's easy enough to put it the front or back seat of your car. That's what I used to do before I bought my SUV.

The interval between balls is greater on the Spinfire, but I've never used anything over about 6 seconds. I asked Spinfire why the longest interval was so long and they said it was because some users like to have someone serve a ball to them in between the machine shooting the ball and that length of time is required between balls to faciliate that. Most probably don't do that but nice to have the option. They also said that some users have little kids and they like to instruct them in between the swings or they have the horizontal oscillation on wide and little kids need more time to run from one side to the other.

Another thing I like about the Spinfire is that it automatically stops the feed motor if the balls are depleted. Lobster does not. Given both machines sometimes leave a few balls in the hopper it's good to know that with the Spinfire if you forget to stop the feed motor a ball isn't going to suddenly finally drop and shoot out and hit you in the head. Also, even if that doesn't happen it saves battery power not to have the feed motor turning while you pick up the balls. The Spinfire also has a button on the remote to put the machine into sleep mode while you are picking up balls in order to conserve battery power. Lobster doesn't have that either. Seems like Spinfire thought of everything, except being able to program the 6 balls you can with Lobster, but I wouldn't pay $800 for more for just that feature and like the fact the machine doesn't point in the direction of the ball.

Anything you don't like about the Proton or do you think it's the bees knees?

 

[mmk]

Spinfire Pro 2 is a very good machine and Lobster Elite Grand V LE is a GREAT machine.

I did my research a few years ago on both before deciding on the lobster Elite Grand V LE, based on this result from Tennis Warehouse Australia: https://www.**********************/lobster-elite-grand-5-vs-spinfire-pro-2.html

Lobster grand V LE costs $5699 AUD versus $3195 AUD for Spinfire PRO 2. In other words, the lobster cost 44% more than Spinfire Pro 2.
...

It seems like there are much more features with the lobster and spinfire PRO 2? does it justify a 44% price increase? That's something buyers will have to decide. IMHO, it does. I don't think the proton even has this feature. I just prefer the proton because it is much lighter than both of these beasts

Your math is a bit off, 5699 is 78% higher than 3195.

 

[bobleenov1963]

You don't need an SUV. It's easy enough to put it the front or back seat of your car. That's what I used to do before I bought my SUV.

I wouldn't to take that chance on my Lexus IS350 sport car, at the risk of damaging the leather seat or scratching the interior of the car. I don't think putting the Spinfire PRO 2 in the back of the Lexus IS350 is even feasible, not without damaging the interior of this beautiful car

I can't comment on the Proton because I have not used it yet. My backup plan is if the Proton fails, I'll go over to one of my my friends and use his Ace attach tennis ball machine

 

[R1FF]

Anything you don't like about the Proton or do you think it's the bees knees?

Yeah, the fact that it keeps getting delayed LOL.

Here’s the rub, pretty unfair to give the Proton any credit for its features if those features don’t legitimately exist yet.

The best ability is availABILITY.

 

[JEDI MASTER]

Yeah, the fact that it keeps getting delayed LOL.

Here’s the rub, pretty unfair to give the Proton any credit for its features if those features don’t legitimately exist yet.

The best ability is availABILITY.

why do say it keeps getting delayed? .. keeps is plural.. the Proton is only been delayed once.... it was scheduled for summer delivery.... like everything else.. now delivery is in the Fall..

we'll see what happens by Dec. 21.. when Fall officially ends..

 

[TorontoTennis]

I wouldn't to take that chance on my Lexus IS350 sport car, at the risk of damaging the leather seat or scratching the interior of the car. I don't think putting the Spinfire PRO 2 in the back of the Lexus IS350 is even feasible, not without damaging the interior of this beautiful car

I can't comment on the Proton because I have not used it yet. My backup plan is if the Proton fails, I'll go over to one of my my friends and use his Ace attach tennis ball machine

Not true. There's nothing on the underside of the Spinfire that would damage any car seat, leather or not. If you haven't notice that body is oviod-shaped and totally smooth so it is not going to damage anything either. Same with the Lobster. Also, um, never heard of putting a small blanket down first if you are that worried? Easy peasy. Methinks you are a bit too paranoid about your car.

As for the Proton, the website is up and pretty detailed. Don't tell us you actually bought it without a clue as to its features and limitations, now did you?

 

[R1FF]

why do say it keeps getting delayed? .. keeps is plural.. the Proton is only been delayed once.... it was scheduled for summer delivery.... like everything else.. now delivery is in the Fall..

we'll see what happens by Dec. 21.. when Fall officially ends..

Because I have a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback.

Granted, I appreciate the updates they send. And setbacks are inevitable, and appear to be par for the course for all criwd funding endeavors. Im not hating in Proton. I wanna be a customer.

But Im also no longer holding my breath. Im guessing it’ll be released in 2021. I hope Im wrong. It’s still an ambitious device, that has much R&D left to address minor design bugs, and it’s process with China was having issues pre covid.

I wish they woulda had it made here. It might available by now.

 

[TorontoTennis]

Because I have a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback.

Granted, I appreciate the updates they send. And setbacks are inevitable, and appear to be par for the course for all criwd funding endeavors. Im not hating in Proton. I wanna be a customer.

But Im also no longer holding my breath. Im guessing it’ll be released in 2021. I hope Im wrong. It’s still an ambitious device, that has much R&D left to address minor design bugs, and it’s process with China was having issues pre covid.

I wish they woulda had it made here. It might available by now.

Yes and it would cost twice as much, the business would not be a viable enterprise and therefore it would never hit the market. It is impossible to product a product like a tennis ball machine in the USA and be competitive in price. If your competitors are buying their parts at a fraction of the price in Asia or having their entire machine produced in there how in the world would you ever be competitive in price not doing the same? Although some of the tennis ball manufacturers claim 'Made in the USA' there is actually no fixed percentage that must be attributable to U.S. costs in order to be able to say that. There is little to no policing of the use of that marketing slogan (gimmick). Many of the parts could come from Asia and only light assembly is done in the US. It's more of a marketing game for those who like to buy made in the USA products. I doubt consumers would be willing to pay the premium for an entirely US-made tennis ball machine. The guy developing the Proton used to be with apple and knows that. apple's products would be more than twice the price if made in the USA but that wouldn't even be feasible as the workforce and facilities in the USA to meet their requirements and demand simply do not exist. American manufacturing largely went bye-bye many years ago. It ain't comin' back as promised 4 years ago during the current (hopefully one-time) fearless leader's campaign speeches.

 

[myke232]

Because I have a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback.

Granted, I appreciate the updates they send. And setbacks are inevitable, and appear to be par for the course for all criwd funding endeavors. Im not hating in Proton. I wanna be a customer.

But Im also no longer holding my breath. Im guessing it’ll be released in 2021. I hope Im wrong. It’s still an ambitious device, that has much R&D left to address minor design bugs, and it’s process with China was having issues pre covid.

I wish they woulda had it made here. It might available by now.

I don't like how when these companies are pitching these products, the presentation makes it sound like it's 100% done, works perfectly, is the best thing ever on the market, is foolproof and going to completely revolutionize the market. We only need money now to produce and distribute them. But in reality it seems it's more like we have a great idea and think it will work, give us your money and we will try to deliver!

 

[TorontoTennis]

Because I have a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback.

Granted, I appreciate the updates they send. And setbacks are inevitable, and appear to be par for the course for all criwd funding endeavors. Im not hating in Proton. I wanna be a customer.

But Im also no longer holding my breath. Im guessing it’ll be released in 2021. I hope Im wrong. It’s still an ambitious device, that has much R&D left to address minor design bugs, and it’s process with China was having issues pre covid.

I wish they woulda had it made here. It might available by now.

Below is the pre-launch email sent to prospective super-early bird buyers on Sept 5, 2019. I highlighted the line:

'The plan has us shipping the pre-order units early next summer (2020).'

https://imgur.com/a/xtY9G7C

A subsequent email from Hydrogen Sports on Sept 15, 2019 advised of the super early-bird secret pre-order link that would be live at midnight amd reiterated the same shipping date of 'early summer (2020)' as before:

https://imgur.com/a/KzfTAGH

The only other update to the shipping date was on May 16, 2020 when they advised that 'we are now targeting the end of September to start shipping the pre-order units'. (click the text to see the notice).

FYI, the site only went live with any information about the machine in July, 2019. Before that it was just a blank black page showing a small B&W picture of a tennis ball with the words 'Any court. Any time' and 'We are a small Silicon Valley team building a modern and sophisticated tennis training tool. It’s not ready to announce yet, but it’s coming soon, and early prototypes are awesome!' but nothng else.

I didn't want to go to the trouble of digging this proof up, but I hate so see Hydrogen Sports maligned by people like you who don't have a clue what they are talking about and claim they have proof in the way of 'a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback' when you obviously haven't even looked at it to make sure what you claim is even true. If you are so confident you are correct (which we know you are not) post the email that you see in your 'folder of updates from the mfg that detail each setback' showing there ever was an early ship date promised by Hydrogen Sports.

@JEDI MASTER and me know what we are talking about. You need to post what is true and refrain from posting misinformation as it is dishonest and unfair to Hydrogen Sports.

 

[TorontoTennis]

I don't like how when these companies are pitching these products, the presentation makes it sound like it's 100% done, works perfectly, is the best thing ever on the market, is foolproof and going to completely revolutionize the market. We only need money now to produce and distribute them. But in reality it seems it's more like we have a great idea and think it will work, give us your money and we will try to deliver!

Hydrogen Sports hardly did that. See above. Slingerbag certainly did by taking everyone's money and then shipping a product 2 years later that didn't do half of what they claimed and didn't look anything like the prototype.

 

[R1FF]

Yes and it would cost twice as much, the business would not be a viable enterprise and therefore it would never hit the market. It is impossible to product a product like a tennis ball machine in the USA and be competitive in price. If your competitors are buying their parts at a fraction of the price in Asia or having their entire machine produced in there how in the world would you ever be competitive in price not doing the same? Although some of the tennis ball manufacturers claim 'Made in the USA' there is actually no fixed percentage that must be attributable to U.S. costs in order to be able to say that. There is little to no policing of the use of that marketing slogan (gimmick). Many of the parts could come from Asia and only light assembly is done in the US. It's more of a marketing game for those who like to buy made in the USA products. I doubt consumers would be willing to pay the premium for an entirely US-made tennis ball machine. The guy developing the Proton used to be with apple and knows that. apple's products would be more than twice the price if made in the USA but that wouldn't even be feasible as the workforce and facilities in the USA to meet their requirements and demand simply do not exist. American manufacturing largely went bye-bye many years ago. It ain't comin' back as promised 4 years ago during the current (hopefully one-time) fearless leader's campaign speeches.

No. It wouldn’t cost twice as much.

You can get plastic parts manufactured here in the USA. Injection mold technology has come a long way.

Your other point is valid, “made in USA” often means assembled in USA.

 

[R1FF]

I don't like how when these companies are pitching these products, the presentation makes it sound like it's 100% done, works perfectly, is the best thing ever on the market, is foolproof and going to completely revolutionize the market. We only need money now to produce and distribute them. But in reality it seems it's more like we have a great idea and think it will work, give us your money and we will try to deliver!

I think at this point, we all know what we’re getting into with regards to crowd funding.

This is a small company. With pretty good communication/customer service so far. So they deserve a long leash as of now.

Compared to a company like Netgear for example, that’ll release products they know dont work & have glaring flaws. So they can let the consumers be the beta testers. And then good luck getting anyone on the phone that cares.

In this case, Jonah cares.

But to your point, I often wonder how they made their promo video of a working unit considering it was a long way off from actually working/ready for public consumption when that video was made. It definitely misled me into thinking this thing was right around the corner. But Hydrogen made good on it so Im not upset.

I think many will be upset if this device fails to deliver the performance tho. Hydrogen has set lofty goals.

 

[R1FF]

You might want to buy new glasses or actually backup what you keep saying because you are totally incorrect. Below is the pre-launch email sent to prospective super-early bird buyers on Sept 5, 2019. I highlighted the line:

'The plan has us shipping the pre-order units early next summer (2020).'

https://imgur.com/a/xtY9G7C

A subsequent email from Hydrogen Sports on Sept 15, 2019 advised of the super early-bird secret pre-order link that would be live at midnight amd reiterated the same shipping date of 'early summer (2020)' as before:

https://imgur.com/a/KzfTAGH

The only other update to the shipping date was on May 16, 2020 when they advised that 'we are now targeting the end of September to start shipping the pre-order units'. (click the text to see the notice).

FYI, the site only went live with any information about the machine in July, 2019. Before that it was just a blank black page showing a small B&W picture of a tennis ball with the words 'Any court. Any time' and 'We are a small Silicon Valley team building a modern and sophisticated tennis training tool. It’s not ready to announce yet, but it’s coming soon, and early prototypes are awesome!' but nothng else.

I didn't want to go to the trouble of digging this proof up, but I hate so see Hydrogen Sports maligned by people like you who don't have a clue what they are talking about and claim they have proof in the way of 'a folder of email updates from the mfg that detail each setback' when you obviously haven't even looked at it to make sure what you claim is even true. If you are so confident you are correct (which we know you are not) post the email that you see in your 'folder of updates from the mfg that detail each setback' showing there ever was an early ship date promised by Hydrogen Sports.

@JEDI MASTER and me know what we are talking about. You need to post what is true and refrain from posting misinformation as it is dishonest and unfair to Hydrogen Sports.

Do you work for Hydrogen? What’s your affiliation to them? Since you’re demanding transparency and all.

And no, Im not posting screenshots of the emails I’ve received from Hydrogen. They’re not for public consumption.

If you’re truly worried about Hydrogen’s reputation, overzealous defense & promotion of their product will likely do more damage than good. Dont get people’s hopes up for a product that has yet to deliver.

 

[TorontoTennis]

No. It wouldn’t cost twice as much.

You can get plastic parts manufactured here in the USA. Injection mold technology has come a long way.

Your other point is valid, “made in USA” often means assembled in USA.

Yes you can get plastic parts manufactured here in the USA, but the fact that you even say that shows how off the mark you are. Let me educate you. Even though the machines themselves that are used to produce those parts are about the same price, the real estate in which you place those machines and the labour and administrative costs to keep them and the companies operating that own them running are multiples higher in the USA than Asia.

However, a much larger point you are missing is the the majority of the costs in a tennis ball machine are not the plastic parts, but the 5 motors, circuit board, witches and wiring, not the plastic parts. The delta in the cost of using parts like those made in the USA vs Asia are huge.

If the cost was similar then the most parts would be sourced in the USA but they are not. Even with 8-week lag time, shipping from overseas and all the attendant issues there are in doing that it is still much cheaper by a mile to source parts in Asia. You sure show a complete naivete about manufacturing and parts cost. Stop now before you further embarrass yourself.

 

[TorontoTennis]

Do you work for Hydrogen? What’s your affiliation to them? Since you’re demanding transparency and all.

And no, Im not posting screenshots of the emails I’ve received from Hydrogen. They’re not for public consumption.

If you’re truly worried about Hydrogen’s reputation, overzealous defense & promotion of their product will likely do more damage than good. Dont get people’s hopes up for a product that has yet to deliver.

No, I am just proving you wrong, which I did.

You are not posting screenshots of the emails you received because you can't and were caught making things up. FYI, the emails from Hydrogen are for public consumption because, duh, they sent them out to the public. All you had to do was provide your email address to get them. Many hundreds and possibly even thousands of people did given they sold many hundreds of machines during the two times they offered them for sale. Sheesh!

 

[R1FF]

Except that I’ve been a part of the R&D & mfg of products... done here in the USA. Why? To avoid quality control issues, communication breakdowns, and speed up the process. And yes, this included electronics.

 

[R1FF]

No, I am just proving wrong, which I have.

You are not posting screenshots of the emails you received because you were caught making things up. And of course the emails from Hydrogen are for public consumption because, duh, they sent them out to the public. All you had to do was provide your email address to get them. Many hundreds and possibly even thousands of people did given they sold 400 machines during the two times they offered them for sale. Sheesh!

You’re wrong if you think those mass emails posted to their blog & sent out were the only emails they’ve ever written to customers.

 

[TorontoTennis]

You’re wrong if you think those mass emails posted to their blog & sent out were the only emails they’ve ever written to customers.

I never said that. What I said was their delivery date never changed from their first announcement except for the latest change to September, which I have proven. No email you ever got changed that. Again. stop making things up.

 

[TorontoTennis]

Except that I’ve been a part of the R&D & mfg of products... done here in the USA. Why? To avoid quality control issues, communication breakdowns, and speed up the process. And yes, this included electronics.

The fact this isn't happening with tennis ball machines and most other consumer products with few exceptions proves you completely and utterly wrong.

 

[R1FF]

The fact this isn't happening with tennis ball machines and most other consumer products with few exceptions proves you completely and utterly wrong.

The fact that Hydrogen was having development/production issues prior to covid proves otherwise.

Is it easy to find USA manufacturing? I dont think so. But does it exist? Yes.

Most dont even explore the option anymore.

 

[TorontoTennis]

The fact that Hydrogen was having development/production issues prior to covid proves otherwise.

Is it easy to find USA manufacturing? I dont think so. But does it exist? Yes.

Most dont even explore the option anymore.

The fact you would even think to ask if I work for Hydrogen proves that you know that I proved you wrong, lol.

Whether Hydrogen was or was not having development/production issues prior to covid is irrelevant as all any purchaser is affected by is the delivery date, which has only changed once from the summer of 2020 to September.

Why are you constantly trying to malign them by making things up and then dig in your heels when you are proven wrong on so many counts? I guess you work for Lobster, or Tennis Tutor or Silent Partner, etc.

 

[R1FF]

None, What's your problem with admitting you are wrong when you have proven to be and everyone else on this forum knows that you are?

Because Im not wrong.

The product is behind schedule, and has been behind schedule, and very likely will continue to be behind schedule. It’s an ambitious product that STILL has development/design issues as of today.

Covid is just a convenient excuse.

Im rooting for Hydrogen. But Im not about to pretend they’re on schedule. I knew they weren’t going to deliver by Summer before most did, thus why I requested my refund.

You got no problem thrashing Slingr. Let’s wait until Hydrogen actually delivers before crowning them. So far, the device is still hollow hype, until it isnt.

 

[R1FF]

The fact you would even think to ask if I work for Hydrogen ...

... is evidence that Im skeptical of your overzealous defense of a product that is behind schedule & I expect yet another delay (or a loss of features).

You’ve attacked anyone in this thread that’s been even halfway critical of Hydrogen.

 

[TorontoTennis]

... is evidence that Im skeptical of your overzealous defense of a product that is behind schedule & I expect yet another delay (or a loss of features).

Proving you keep making stuff up is not being overzealous.

You’ve attacked anyone in this thread that’s been even halfway critical of Hydrogen.

Take a look in the mirror. You're the one who keeps making stuff up. Now you are predicting a 'loss of features'. There's no end to your unfair criticism and lies.

As for Hydrogen I have been critical of the product. See my posts 104 and 122. I pointed out a number of things I don't like about it, that I felt there are too many negatives about it and that I would not buy it . That's the opposite of defending the product. Get real.

At this point I would have to say you have clearly proven you are not playing with a full deck...

 

[Challenge Court]

This thread is quite entertaining, and a bit exhausting, lol! I'll say this, in regards to a machine fitting in a car. I found a lightly used Lobster Gr Elite V on the bay. Was actually semi-local so I did local pickup and paid cash.

First off, I love it. It does what I wanted, which was something to send me tennis balls at a decent speed with spin constantly, to help me get back into the sport (I stopped playing in mid 2000s due to health & playing partner changing jobs).

For what I paid for it $1,400 back in August of 2018, I feel I got a great deal. And I know I can sell it for what I paid for it, especially with the pandemic, this is a great social distancing exercise machine.

About getting it in the car. I lease a Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid. This means the trunk is a bit small (batteries are back there). So for the machine, it won't fit. So I put it on the back seat. But to save the leather seats, I grabbed a large cardboard box, took all the tape off, and unfolded it to be flat. I lay this on the back seat and put the wheels in the car on the edge of the cardboard, and then wheel it back enough that the whole machine is on the folded box.

I haven't had any issues with my seats getting nicked or torn. And yes, it's a tad heavy but I'm lifting it maybe 2-3 feet max for 10 seconds. I am used to it and it's a small nuisance for a great machine. Since I don't have anyone to hit with, it's my only option. So for anyone worrying about the back seats in a car, just use a large enough folded flat box. Plus it slides on the leather nicely if you need to push it over further. Just a tip.

 

[myke232]

My silent partner fits in my honda civic hatchback so easily... the sp is rather tall though, I don't think it would fit in the trunk of a sedan... And I could see how putting it into a back seat would be a pain...

 

[Crazy Finn]

My silent partner fits in my honda civic hatchback so easily... the sp is rather tall though, I don't think it would fit in the trunk of a sedan... And I could see how putting it into a back seat would be a pain...

What model is it and how heavy?

 

[myke232]

What model is it and how heavy?

It's the Star Edge, it's 47 lbs., pretty darn heavy actually... any heavier I think would be too much. It's not bad lifting it into the car, but I have to bring it into my house to charge it...

 

[JEDI MASTER]

I just received an update from Proton.

All parts have been orders and being manufactured right now. And hoping to receive all parts for assembly in 5-6 weeks.

Also. Sometime in Sept. another Pre-order opportunity for the second batch. And October a few machines will be available for immediate sale.

Looks like we might get our machines in August/ September.


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