I am amazed that almost no online coach understands Rafas forehand entirely. But I do.

acintya

Legend
Well,

every online coach has a video named "the buggy whip forehand". BUT THATS NOT NADAL. That is wrong. They almost all finish over the same shoulder which is only a shot Nadal uses when he is really late. His real forehand is something I think only a few people on this world understand in every aspect.

For all the die hard fans I will now give you three videos you need to watch to fully understand his forehand.

key #1 Intuitive Tennis has the best and most complete video of Rafas forehand, yet his emulation at the end is not 100% correct, his finish is not 100% correct. But nice try man.


key #2 CoachKyrils finish emulation is one of the best explanations of the RAFA forehand but he misses one little point which is very important and you will learn what is it in the video three:

and now the winner. the one point that everybody misses. 4:09 - HIS RACQUET HEAD CLOSES RIGHT AFTER HE HITS THE BALL. That IS the MOST important element of his FH. Federer does this too - this is the thing that enables you that you can swing like a maniac and still keep the ball in - this little closage. THIS CLOSAGE doesnt help him to generate topspin but it HELPS him TO CONTROL HIS SHOT - to control the combination of his insane spin and POWER. Once upon a time somebody talked about a college player with monster spin fh? Well HE probably uses this technique. NO recreational player I know uses this, except my brother.

key #3 winner HUGE TENNIS

I am "studying" this and I can replicate his shot in FULL. Its way less powerful, way less spin but its a mini Nadal shot. I hope I will record it someday, but I just need to keep working on it.
Its feels very good when its done properly, but you must be fully relaxed and you really need to whip that ball like its your last shot.
I hope someone will learn something from this, because im sick of all the miss-information.

I want also to point out, that most of the online coaches just spam us with some videos they probably made in one day and it went zero "investigation" in it. Just to have a video about something to keep the channel alive - well im sick of these tutorials, I could do them easily, anyone could - even if he is not a good tennis player. There are though coaches who upload some deep videos but I dont want to advertise here.

and a little info i wanna add: I could never pull of this shot in style with my right hand, my left hand is so loose and it helps tremendously to try replicate this stroke with my non-dominant hand. I cant explain but I just can do it better with my left hand. It has something to do with the muscles which I think are more "flexible" because they are not so trained as my righ-hand muscles - which after 30 years can get "stiff".
 
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sshin12

Rookie
I thought it was used to generate more racket head speed on a ball that is out of position for a normal forehand ie, not in front of your body (close to parallel) or stretched to the side (reaching for the forehand).

You can’t buggy whip a ball that is in front of you or directly in the middle of your body.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Well,

every online coach has a video named "the buggy whip forehand". BUT THATS NOT NADAL. That is wrong. They almost all finish over the same shoulder which is only a shot Nadal uses when he is really late. His real forehand is something I think only a few people on this world understand in every aspect.

For all the die hard fans I will now give you three videos you need to watch to fully understand his forehand.

key #1 Intuitive Tennis has the best and most complete video of Rafas forehand, yet his emulation at the end is not 100% correct, his finish is not 100% correct. But nice try man.


key #2 CoachKyrils finish emulation is one of the best explanations of the RAFA forehand but he misses one little point which is very important and you will learn what is it in the video three:

and now the winner. the one point that everybody misses. 4:09 - HIS RACQUET HEAD CLOSES RIGHT AFTER HE HITS THE BALL. That IS the MOST important element of his FH. Federer does this too - this is the thing that enables you that you can swing like a maniac and still keep the ball in - this little closage. THIS CLOSAGE doesnt help him to generate topspin but it HELPS him TO CONTROL HIS SHOT - to control the combination of his insane spin and POWER. Once upon a time somebody talked about a college player with monster spin fh? Well HE probably uses this technique. NO recreational player I know uses this, except my brother.

key #3 winner HUGE TENNIS

I am "studying" this and I can replicate his shot in FULL. Its way less powerful, way less spin but its a mini Nadal shot. I hope I will record it someday, but I just need to keep working on it.
Its feels very good when its done properly, but you must be fully relaxed and you really need to whip that ball like its your last shot.
I hope someone will learn something from this, because im sick of all the miss-information.

I want also to point out, that most of the online coaches just spam us with some videos they probably made in one day and it went zero "investigation" in it. Just to have a video about something to keep the channel alive - well im sick of these tutorials, I could do them easily, anyone could - even if he is not a good tennis player. There are though coaches who upload some deep videos but I dont want to advertise here.

and a little info i wanna add: I could never pull of this shot in style with my right hand, my left hand is so loose and it helps tremendously to try replicate this stroke with my non-dominant hand. I cant explain but I just can do it better with my left hand. It has something to do with the muscles which I think are more "flexible" because they are not so trained as my righ-hand muscles - which after 30 years can get "stiff".
Make a video and you can be part of the coaching crowd! And get a little $$ too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Op, i like your post. You're on track with your recreational hobby which is ultimately the thing we are all after.

Ignore the naysayers. Whether anyone gets Nadal FH or not, they all end up in the same recreational hole. Lol. And not far away from you. :)
 

acintya

Legend
Op, i like your post. You're on track with your recreational hobby which is ultimately the thing we are all after.

Ignore the naysayers. Whether anyone gets Nadal FH or not, they all end up in the same recreational hole. Lol. And not far away from you. :)
Thanks. I just wanted to share what I found out, I even play with my left hand ffs! The project continues.
I can already say why Nadal was launching these short FHs years ago..which dropped in the service box.
There is almost no other PRO player on the world who had this problem, and that is another sign that Rafas forehand is unique.
The reason back then was lack of power and feel, plus bad core work - he was not in shape, this forehands are extremely demanding and thats why Nadal looks like Goro from Mortal Kombat. He needs the power.
And yeah its kind of childish people make fun out of my post, like it would make no sense. I just cant imagine I would make fun out of something like that. They even didnt read it in full in my opinion. You cant troll a thread already 5 minutes after it was made.These people will never be deep thinkers,they will just smack the ball and stay with the same technique all their life long.

This is what happens if you share "gold" with pigs.
 
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Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Thanks. I just wanted to share what I found out, I even play with my left hand ffs! The project continues.
I can already say why Nadal was launching these short FHs years ago..which dropped in the service box.
There is almost no other PRO player on the world who had this problem, and that is another sign that Rafas forehand is unique.
The reason back then was lack of power and feel, plus bad core work - he was not in shape, this forehands are extremely demanding and thats why Nadal looks like Goro from Mortal Kombat. He needs the power.
And yeah its kind of childish people make fun out of my post, like it would make no sense. I just cant imagine I would make fun out of something like that. They even didnt read it in full in my opinion. You cant troll a thread already 5 minutes after it was made.These people will never be deep thinkers,they will just smack the ball and stay with the same technique all their life long.

This is what happens if you share "gold" with pigs.
Didnt Nadal add weight to his racquet at some point. he said it was for his serve IIRC.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I thought it was used to generate more racket head speed on a ball that is out of position for a normal forehand ie, not in front of your body (close to parallel) or stretched to the side (reaching for the forehand).

You can’t buggy whip a ball that is in front of you or directly in the middle of your body.
Nadal does use that FH when he's well in position and seemingly as his staple shot though.

Look:
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Well,

every online coach has a video named "the buggy whip forehand". BUT THATS NOT NADAL. That is wrong. They almost all finish over the same shoulder which is only a shot Nadal uses when he is really late. His real forehand is something I think only a few people on this world understand in every aspect.

For all the die hard fans I will now give you three videos you need to watch to fully understand his forehand.

key #1 Intuitive Tennis has the best and most complete video of Rafas forehand, yet his emulation at the end is not 100% correct, his finish is not 100% correct. But nice try man.


key #2 CoachKyrils finish emulation is one of the best explanations of the RAFA forehand but he misses one little point which is very important and you will learn what is it in the video three:

and now the winner. the one point that everybody misses. 4:09 - HIS RACQUET HEAD CLOSES RIGHT AFTER HE HITS THE BALL. That IS the MOST important element of his FH. Federer does this too - this is the thing that enables you that you can swing like a maniac and still keep the ball in - this little closage. THIS CLOSAGE doesnt help him to generate topspin but it HELPS him TO CONTROL HIS SHOT - to control the combination of his insane spin and POWER. Once upon a time somebody talked about a college player with monster spin fh? Well HE probably uses this technique. NO recreational player I know uses this, except my brother.

key #3 winner HUGE TENNIS

I am "studying" this and I can replicate his shot in FULL. Its way less powerful, way less spin but its a mini Nadal shot. I hope I will record it someday, but I just need to keep working on it.
Its feels very good when its done properly, but you must be fully relaxed and you really need to whip that ball like its your last shot.
I hope someone will learn something from this, because im sick of all the miss-information.

I want also to point out, that most of the online coaches just spam us with some videos they probably made in one day and it went zero "investigation" in it. Just to have a video about something to keep the channel alive - well im sick of these tutorials, I could do them easily, anyone could - even if he is not a good tennis player. There are though coaches who upload some deep videos but I dont want to advertise here.

and a little info i wanna add: I could never pull of this shot in style with my right hand, my left hand is so loose and it helps tremendously to try replicate this stroke with my non-dominant hand. I cant explain but I just can do it better with my left hand. It has something to do with the muscles which I think are more "flexible" because they are not so trained as my righ-hand muscles - which after 30 years can get "stiff".
(1) I notice that very few rec players, or possibly even junior competitive players, do the buggy whip. Would have thought it would be copied more.
(2) When I tried it, I hit myself in the forehead. :(
(3) Many coaches, including John Yandell, refuse to teach it. Not sure of the reasoning.
 

enishi1357

Rookie
I'm almost certain most ATP pros have identical forehands. The only difference being their grips and their backhands. So really all you have to do is find some pros and ask them. Frankly most coach won't teach federer and nadal's FH is because they don't know. How could they teach something they themselves don't or can't even do? I mean even if they know how could they have full confidence on something that they can't or don't do?

I suspect most posters here know too. It's just like me we really don't care since sooner or later you would find out the same way we did and that is follow the basic. It's not a magic FH or anything.
 
Closing the racket is just a function of contact point. The tennissspeed guy has established that a decade ago, Roger and rafa have a constant racket angle hitting the middle of the string bed, opening hitting the top and closing hitting the bottom.

The racket face is slightly closed but basically constant from the end of the flip till after contact unless you hit off center.

Regarding buggy whip Nadal can play a normal WW forehand but he does it way more often in practice than in matches.

Here you can see that racket face after contact only depends on contact point

Now the tennissspeed guy claimed they hit the bottom intentionally to generate spin but I don't buy that.
 

acintya

Legend
Didnt Nadal add weight to his racquet at some point. he said it was for his serve IIRC.
he did, but that has nothing to do with his technique or? :) he added weight for more power. im sure they know what they do and even a slight change in weight makes tremendous difference.
 

acintya

Legend
I'm almost certain most ATP pros have identical forehands. The only difference being their grips and their backhands. So really all you have to do is find some pros and ask them. Frankly most coach won't teach federer and nadal's FH is because they don't know. How could they teach something they themselves don't or can't even do? I mean even if they know how could they have full confidence on something that they can't or don't do?

I suspect most posters here know too. It's just like me we really don't care since sooner or later you would find out the same way we did and that is follow the basic. It's not a magic FH or anything.
I get you but that is not entirely true. Yes, most ATP guys have a similar fh but Fed and Nadal have unique forehands / and yes you are right, they dont teach this because they dont know how to perform this forehands.
I can perfectly perform both: the Federer forehand with the lag and closing and extreme eastern grip with my right hand, and Nadals semi western forehand with my left hand.
Ofcourse I cant hit so hard.
Thats why I made this thread. You cant understand this forehands unless you put some serious time in it - in theory and in practice.
There is a missing point i forgot to add in my opening post and this is:

the straight arm not only gives Fed and Nadal reach and stability but it also gives some additional momentum - they start in the bent arm position and when they extend they get more lag and more speed because of the power transfer from bent to straight arm. Also they hit the forehands from inside out, at the start their arms are close to the body but then they extend out.
Its a very complex stroke if you dont understand it, but an really easy and natural when you get it.

one is certainly true, they both are the biggest inventors of the game. There is a lot of stuff we can learn from both. I give slight advantage to Rafa in terms of the difficulty of performing his shot - Federers Fh is a gentlemants-efficient stroke, Nadals FH is a workhorses/warriors stroke and it demands way much work/power to be performed well, but it is also more consistent/secure shot because of all the topspin and extreme angles.
 
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I get you but that is not entirely true. Yes, most ATP guys have a similar fh but Fed and Nadal have unique forehands / and yes you are right, they dont teach this because they dont know how to perform this forehands.
I can perfectly perform both: the Federer forehand with the lag and closing and extreme eastern grip with my right hand, and Nadals semi western forehand with my left hand.
Ofcourse I cant hit so hard.
Thats why I made this thread. You cant understand this forehands unless you put some serious time in it - in theory and in practice.
There is a missing point i forgot to add in my opening post and this is:

the straight arm not only gives Fed and Nadal reach and stability but it also gives some additional momentum - they start in the bent arm position and when they extend they get more lag and more speed because of the power transfer from bent to straight arm. Also they hit the forehands from inside out, at the start their arms are close to the body but then they extend out.
Its a very complex stroke if you dont understand it, but an really easy and natural when you get it.

one is certainly true, they both are the biggest inventors of the game. There is a lot of stuff we can learn from both.
Except the racket face isn't closing, the angle is constant unless they hit off center.
 

acintya

Legend
Except the racket face isn't closing, the angle is constant unless they hit off center.
You speaking of Federer? he closes the face quite often, but his FH is the most versatile on the planet - he is a magician with the FH and he isnt closing it most of the time like Nadal.
 

enishi1357

Rookie
Like I said the main differences are grips and backhand. I will concede I was wrong that those were the only differences since there's certain nuances to it. I used to think straight arm FH is complex but when you think about it's only complex because at least for me I was taught by my coach to have bent FH. So it's complex in the sense it's not being taught.

One example is Nishikori. He has all the basic element of straight arm except one thing, his western grip. It's impossible to hit straight arm FH with western grip.

Frankly I'm amazed not more pro tennis players have straight arm FH. By no means it's not rampant in semi pro stage. But I guess most failed to reach pro.
 

pencilcheck

Professional
I don’t know Nadal forehand buggy whip, but in a lot of those videos Nadal is simply doing a normal stroke but he really exaggerated the racquet flip for top spin which is probably the “racquet closage” you are referring to in the post.

he can do this comfortably probably due to 1) very strong lower body 2) clay needs and thus his playing style 3) has bandage around his index fingers etc thus built up a lot of thick skins

Djokovic can do this, Verdasco can do this, even Federer do this as well it is not a big secret amount pros

but probably you are right that it is mysterious among the youtube coaches
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
HIS RACQUET HEAD CLOSES RIGHT AFTER HE HITS THE BALL. That IS the MOST important element of his FH. Federer does this too - this is the thing that enables you that you can swing like a maniac and still keep the ball in - this little closage. THIS CLOSAGE doesnt help him to generate topspin but it HELPS him TO CONTROL HIS SHOT - to control the combination of his insane spin and POWER.
I need to try this out
 

acintya

Legend
I need to try this out
i dont know if you are serious or not..but if you will really try this you will find out two things:

1. the shots are "safer"
2. its quite power demanding if you compare it to a normal stroke (if im honest)...hence - rafas muscles. wat-power consumption must be really x3 if you doing this the whole match.
:)
 
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