I did not expect this when I signed up for Online Tennis

Gmedlo

Professional
In order to graduate from high school I have to take an extra semester of PE through a BYU independent study course. I am extremely frustrated just minutes into starting it because I have fill out the assignments as if I am a crazed coach spitting dogma from the 60s. Here's an example:

 

thebuffman

Professional
Lol! Wow! and this is the major problem with universities....they are always behind technology. if you want to have some really good fun, get a degree in computers. you are certain to graduate without any applicable and current skill sets; fortran and pascal just aint gonna cut it.

the truth of the matter is that it cost a great deal of money to keep programs at university current. it is a different story for small community colleges and technical schools that can change their program a lot more readily. in the long run though if you want that 4.0 then do what you got to do. for the sake of the grade, support the philosophy that the western is very very bad.
 
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Unfortunately, too much of the education process is jumping through hoops to satisfy requirements. Thinking about it too much will just drive you crazy. Just do what you need to do to pass the course and move on. Don't let it get you down or overly irritated.
 

Gmedlo

Professional
6 hours later I am more than halfway done, although I don't think I will ever fully recover.
 

Frank Silbermann

Professional
In order to graduate from high school I have to take an extra semester of PE through a BYU independent study course. I am extremely frustrated just minutes into starting it because I have fill out the assignments as if I am a crazed coach spitting dogma from the 60s. Here's an example:

So what's the problem? The course is teaching the correct way to play tennis. That's what tennis classes and coaches are _supposed_ to do.

So let's have no more challenges like, "What makes you say the eastern grip is correct and the western grip is incorrect" (as though this were _my_ idea). It's an established fact.

I realize that something has happened to the game or its equipment in the last 20 years that makes certain blatantly incorrect techniques more effective, and that people need to learn these incorrect techniques if they want to have a shot at the top. (Similarly, you have to bribe officials if you want to succeed in business in certain countries. It's a fact of life, but that doesn't make it right.)

Do you what have to do -- but don't lie to yourself about what you're doing.
 
So what's the problem? The course is teaching the correct way to play tennis. That's what tennis classes and coaches are _supposed_ to do.

So let's have no more challenges like, "What makes you say the eastern grip is correct and the western grip is incorrect" (as though this were _my_ idea). It's an established fact.

I realize that something has happened to the game or its equipment in the last 20 years that makes certain blatantly incorrect techniques more effective, and that people need to learn these incorrect techniques if they want to have a shot at the top. (Similarly, you have to bribe officials if you want to succeed in business in certain countries. It's a fact of life, but that doesn't make it right.)

Do you what have to do -- but don't lie to yourself about what you're doing.
This is sarcastic, right? I hope so. If something becomes more effective with today's technology, then it becomes "correct" from a technical standpoint as well, by definition.
 

CallOfBooty

Rookie
In biology terms, natural selection favors players with more extreme grips. Today, baseliners are the surviving species and the pure serve and volley players have died out. Topspin shots are replacing flat and slice shots. Eastern is no longer the dominant grip. I am not saying that western is correct or eastern is correct, but as of right now, players are leaning more towards extreme grips. I am pretty sure that no top 10 player uses an eastern grip for their forehand. Federer is extremely talented and manages to do well with an extreme eastern. Most players use semi-western now. More juniors are beginning to use western grip on their forehands. This is at least what I notice in the US, now if we move to Europe and especially South America, eastern grip is virtually non-existent with clay-court specialists.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
Lol! Wow! and this is the major problem with universities....they are always behind technology. if you want to have some really good fun, get a degree in computers. you are certain to graduate without any applicable and current skill sets; fortran and pascal just aint gonna cut it.

the truth of the matter is that it cost a great deal of money to keep programs at university current. it is a different story for small community colleges and technical schools that can change their program a lot more readily. in the long run though if you want that 4.0 then do what you got to do. for the sake of the grade, support the philosophy that the western is very very bad.
You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
In order to graduate from high school I have to take an extra semester of PE through a BYU independent study course. I am extremely frustrated just minutes into starting it because I have fill out the assignments as if I am a crazed coach spitting dogma from the 60s. Here's an example:


Hilarious pic. That's a SW grip as well (at left)... not western.
 

Frank Silbermann

Professional


Hilarious pic. That's a SW grip as well (at left)... not western.
And the picture on the right is continental, not eastern. In the early 1970s, even a full-eastern grip was called "western." That's because it was established dogma that the eastern grip is best, so when most players began gravitating towards continental, tennis writers had to change their definition of what "eastern" meant. I found that sort of behavior immorally dishonest; in my opinion, any tennis terminology defined in Bill Tilden's books should have remained so defined.
 

papa

Hall of Fame
This is sarcastic, right? I hope so. If something becomes more effective with today's technology, then it becomes "correct" from a technical standpoint as well, by definition.
Yes, absolutely. Many can't/won't make the necessary adjustments but what can you do?
 
In biology terms, natural selection favors players with more extreme grips. Today, baseliners are the surviving species and the pure serve and volley players have died out. Topspin shots are replacing flat and slice shots. Eastern is no longer the dominant grip. I am not saying that western is correct or eastern is correct, but as of right now, players are leaning more towards extreme grips. I am pretty sure that no top 10 player uses an eastern grip for their forehand. Federer is extremely talented and manages to do well with an extreme eastern. Most players use semi-western now. More juniors are beginning to use western grip on their forehands. This is at least what I notice in the US, now if we move to Europe and especially South America, eastern grip is virtually non-existent with clay-court specialists.
You may want to back off on using terms like biology and natural selection to describe why players prefer more extreme grips these days.

It can't be biology because there is no mating, no passing on the genes responsible for extreme grips.

If it was natural selection, the folks with less extreme grip would have to be losing the race to procreate and raise their offsprings into adulthood and having their children be successful in siring their offsprings.

There is no evidence that having a Western forehand grip will make your more successful in passing on your genes. There is also no evidence that there is a genetic component to grip choices in tennis.

Natural selection would take longer too. At the very least a few generations, so it would take 60-100 years for the Western Grip to out-reproduce the Eastern Grip "Gene" (if there is such a gene"). What is happening is not natural selection, but human cultural selection / adaptation.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
I suppose that sort of thinking makes sense to someone who was educated in the idea that morality is relative .....
immorality is subjective.

Yes, but subjectivity is objective.

Not in a rational scheme of perception.

Perception is irrational.
It implies imminence.

But judgment of any system of phenomena exists in any rational, metaphysical or epistemological contradiction to an abstracted empirical concept such as being, or to be, or to occur in the thing itself, or of the thing itself.

Yeah, I've said that many times.
 

CallOfBooty

Rookie
You may want to back off on using terms like biology and natural selection to describe why players prefer more extreme grips these days.

It can't be biology because there is no mating, no passing on the genes responsible for extreme grips.

If it was natural selection, the folks with less extreme grip would have to be losing the race to procreate and raise their offsprings into adulthood and having their children be successful in siring their offsprings.

There is no evidence that having a Western forehand grip will make your more successful in passing on your genes. There is also no evidence that there is a genetic component to grip choices in tennis.

Natural selection would take longer too. At the very least a few generations, so it would take 60-100 years for the Western Grip to out-reproduce the Eastern Grip "Gene" (if there is such a gene"). What is happening is not natural selection, but human cultural selection / adaptation.
I guess if you want to take it that literally you can. Maybe it would have been better to say "Analogous to natural selection" instead.
 
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