"I didn't expect him to play so well this year on grass" SUBTEXT: I have to start trying

Was this a wake up call for Djoker? Or the end?

  • Carlos Woke a sleeping giant

  • Carlos put an old man to bed

  • Even footing

  • Still get confused between Schwartzman and Carlos

Results are only viewable after voting.
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
Djoker said it himself.

He was not expecting this challenge and you could see it. He was shocked.

He thought he had more time. He might be 36, but he hasn't been challenged so he has been on cruise control physically and mentally.

He now knows he can now be beat.

Two options for Djoker:

One, take your winnings and go out on top. Make them wonder what more you could have won.

Two, buckle up. Train like the days when you were catching Rafa and Fed. Mentally be prepared, and fight back.

Djoker is the kind of guy that gets back up after falling and smiles... Might even blow you a kiss.

Is he done? Has Carlos put a fork in him?

Or has Carlos not seen the real Djoker?

The next 2 slams will answer that.


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Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
robthai said:
But despite his height he somehow hit more aces than Djokovic.
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Born_to_slice said:
Novak blew it himself with uncharacteristic UE on big points. Served very bad too.
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Exactly. He was a few points here and there from winning, possibly in Straights.

Imagine if he serves well next time.

This match usually goes djokers way. It didn't, but it can in the future.
 
K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
Again, the level gap is not so big right now that I’m just going to guarantee Raz wins everything.

But considering how nervous he was in the first set and how many opportunities Carlos himself missed by overhitting, who’s to say that Alcaraz won’t improve even more than Djokovic in their next match?

It’s a very steep uphill battle for Novak from here.
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
Kralingen said:
Again, the level gap is not so big right now that I’m just going to guarantee Raz wins everything.

But considering how nervous he was in the first set and how many opportunities Carlos himself missed by overhitting, who’s to say that Alcaraz won’t improve even more than Djokovic in their next match?

It’s a very steep uphill battle for Novak from here.
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True. But the djoker we saw was also not prepared.

I see djoker being quicker to figure things out.
 
J

jeroenn

Professional
I think the choise is on another level.

Had he won Wimbledon, and went for the year GS (and possibly get it), if I were ND, I'd call it then and there. Record-wise he'd be so far ahead. No need to stick around and suffer decline as Federer & Nadal have had.
Obviously that option is still there somewhat, but he may be triggered to go at it once more. And then it becomes ticky, because even for ND, father time will be knocking at his door, and now Carlos has a quite comfortable sofa in ND's head to live on.

And for the upcoming generation, Alcaraz included, the growth curve will be a lot steeper for quite a while, than for oldtimers. Bottom line, it will not get easier for ND, but it will be for the new guys. Remember, it's only been a handful of weeks when Carlos crumbled under pressure at RG. That's quite a leap forward.

Personally, I don't like to see decline as happened to Fed / Nad. Eventhough to me it doesn't substract anything from their legacy and acchievements, to a lot of others it aparently did.

I think ND will give it one more go, but if he finds himself on the losing end too often, he'd might call it a day.
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
jeroenn said:
I think the choise is on another level.

Had he won Wimbledon, and went for the year GS (and possibly get it), if I were ND, I'd call it then and there. Record-wise he'd be so far ahead. No need to stick around and suffer decline as Federer & Nadal have had.
Obviously that option is still there somewhat, but he may be triggered to go at it once more. And then it becomes ticky, because even for ND, father time will be knocking at his door, and now Carlos has a quite comfortable sofa in ND's head to live on.

And for the upcoming generation, Alcaraz included, the growth curve will be a lot steeper for quite a while, than for oldtimers. Bottom line, it will not get easier for ND, but it will be for the new guys. Remember, it's only been a handful of weeks when Carlos crumbled under pressure at RG. That's quite a leap forward.

Personally, I don't like to see decline as happened to Fed / Nad. Eventhough to me it doesn't substract anything from their legacy and acchievements, to a lot of others it aparently did.

I think ND will give it one more go, but if he finds himself on the losing end too often, he'd might call it a day.
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Yep. Losing at USO would hurt even with his little success there.

He loses AO? Well that might be it.

On the other hand, a USO or AO win and things might steady for a year or 2.
 
Spin Diesel

Spin Diesel

Hall of Fame
As a lot of people are saying that Djokovic didn't play well - I think, as often, a lot of this was because of his opponent. It's a lot harder to play well, when the player on the other side of the net can constantly apply pressure.
 
Aestheticsaboveallelse

Aestheticsaboveallelse

Legend
jeroenn said:
I think the choise is on another level.

Had he won Wimbledon, and went for the year GS (and possibly get it), if I were ND, I'd call it then and there. Record-wise he'd be so far ahead. No need to stick around and suffer decline as Federer & Nadal have had.
Obviously that option is still there somewhat, but he may be triggered to go at it once more. And then it becomes ticky, because even for ND, father time will be knocking at his door, and now Carlos has a quite comfortable sofa in ND's head to live on.

And for the upcoming generation, Alcaraz included, the growth curve will be a lot steeper for quite a while, than for oldtimers. Bottom line, it will not get easier for ND, but it will be for the new guys. Remember, it's only been a handful of weeks when Carlos crumbled under pressure at RG. That's quite a leap forward.

Personally, I don't like to see decline as happened to Fed / Nad. Eventhough to me it doesn't substract anything from their legacy and acchievements, to a lot of others it aparently did.

I think ND will give it one more go, but if he finds himself on the losing end too often, he'd might call it a day.
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I don't know whats so hard for you people to understand, losing due to physical ailments like cramps or injury is not crumbling under pressure its being defeated by your own body. Mentally he was handling the pressure perfectly fine tying up the match taking the 2nd set and getting momentum on his side
 
J

jeroenn

Professional
Aestheticsaboveallelse said:
I don't know whats so hard for you people to understand, losing due to physical ailments like cramps or injury is not crumbling under pressure its being defeated by your own body. Mentally he was handling the pressure perfectly fine tying up the match taking the 2nd set and getting momentum on his side
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Ok, whatever.
Just going on what CA himself said, post match:

Alcaraz: I have never felt as tense as I did today - Roland-Garros - The official site

The world No.1 suffered across-body cramps during semi-final defeat to Djokovic
www.rolandgarros.com www.rolandgarros.com
 
K-H

K-H

Hall of Fame
Djokovic wins the first 2 slams of the year
Narrowly loses the third slam in a final that went to 5 sets. Getting comfortably to the final clearing players in his way with ease

It’s not a huge deal lol
He’s still streets ahead of everyone outside alcaraz.
He’s now just got a challenge in front of him. Which is expected when you want to win a slam. Alcaraz will be tough, but it’s not like Djokovics career is over lol.
 
Aestheticsaboveallelse

Aestheticsaboveallelse

Legend
K-H said:
Djokovic wins the first 2 slams of the year
Narrowly loses the third slam in a final that went to 5 sets. Getting comfortably to the final clearing players in his way with ease

It’s not a huge deal lol
He’s still streets ahead of everyone outside alcaraz.
He’s now just got a challenge in front of him. Which is expected when you want to win a slam. Alcaraz will be tough, but it’s not like Djokovics career is over lol.
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Its a huge deal because he might've lost his last chance at a calendar grand slam and had a bunch of centre court and wimbledon huge win streaks snapped...
 
beltsman

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Lleytonstation said:
True. But the djoker we saw was also not prepared.

I see djoker being quicker to figure things out.
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That was just a cope and a way to belittle Alcaraz beating him. You think Djokovic didn't give 100% in preparing for this? Yeah right. Of course he wanted to stomp out the newcomer. Now Djokovic is coping to try and keep the mental edge. "Yeah you beat me, but I wasn't really trying yet."
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
beltsman said:
That was just a cope and a way to belittle Alcaraz beating him. You think Djokovic didn't give 100% in preparing for this? Yeah right. Of course he wanted to stomp out the newcomer. Now Djokovic is coping to try and keep the mental edge. "Yeah you beat me, but I wasn't really trying yet."
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Maybe.

If so then djoker will never beat him again at a slam.
 
beltsman

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Lleytonstation said:
Maybe.

If so then djoker will never beat him again at a slam.
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We'll see. The thing is, Djokovic is deluding himself (or trying to delude himself) into thinking that. But it just might work. If he can truly convince himself that he didn't give his best effort, then it could propel him. But if he harbors a doubt deep inside, he will have more mental struggles against Alcaraz.
 
P

paolo2143

Professional
Novak is not saying he wasn't trying as he always gives 100% effort on the day. However, i do genuinely believe the RG experience made him slightly over confident and i suspect he really didn't think Alcaraz would be able to turn things round so quickly, especially not on grass. Hardly anyone did.

I also think when he won first set 6-1 he kind of expected Carlos to fold but he didn't and i think that also took him by surprise.
 
W

Wesling

Semi-Pro
K-H said:
Djokovic wins the first 2 slams of the year
Narrowly loses the third slam in a final that went to 5 sets. Getting comfortably to the final clearing players in his way with ease

It’s not a huge deal lol
He’s still streets ahead of everyone outside alcaraz.
He’s now just got a challenge in front of him. Which is expected when you want to win a slam. Alcaraz will be tough, but it’s not like Djokovics career is over lol.
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Most sensible post in here. Won two first slams of the year in super dominant style and narrow 5 set loss in the final at Wimbledon - tennis warehouse: time to retire!
 
Krish0608

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
This is not even Peak Carlos. It’s scary what he’s turning into. This was likely Novak’s last stand. He’ll be pumped for USO, but if it’s Carlos again on the other side, he’s going down again. It’s great for Novak’s legacy though that he won the RG encounter. That’s probably the only slam win he’s going to get against Alcaraz
 
TheNachoMan

TheNachoMan

Legend
Krish0608 said:
This is not even Peak Carlos. It’s scary what he’s turning into. This was likely Novak’s last stand. He’ll be pumped for USO, but if it’s Carlos again on the other side, he’s going down again. It’s great for Novak’s legacy though that he won the RG encounter. That’s probably the only slam win he’s going to get against Alcaraz
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Those 2 slams he missed last year may cost him dearly in the slam race.
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
Lleytonstation said:
Djoker said it himself.

He was not expecting this challenge and you could see it. He was shocked.

He thought he had more time. He might be 36, but he hasn't been challenged so he has been on cruise control physically and mentally.

He now knows he can now be beat.

Two options for Djoker:

One, take your winnings and go out on top. Make them wonder what more you could have won.

Two, buckle up. Train like the days when you were catching Rafa and Fed. Mentally be prepared, and fight back.

Djoker is the kind of guy that gets back up after falling and smiles... Might even blow you a kiss.

Is he done? Has Carlos put a fork in him?

Or has Carlos not seen the real Djoker?

The next 2 slams will answer that.


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Which movie is the first screen grab from? I will put on the record that I have a guess in case you say the one I was thinking of.
 
big ted

big ted

Legend
at this point if djoko cant beat carlito on grass in a wimbledon final, what chance does he have at the other slams lol
 
W

Waves

Semi-Pro
big ted said:
at this point if djoko cant beat carlito on grass in a wimbledon final, what chance does he have at the other slams lol
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This. The USO is going to hurt him. I don’t think he will have much left in the tank for AO, unfortunately it looks like he’s been exposed. Really surprised that he lost that WB final still, he looked older than I’ve seen him, in many ways.

But I think he will not retire, but go down fighting hard. I saw a statistic once that in ufc, when an older champion splits the first two fights with a contender, the rubber match always goes to the younger fighter…feel the same is going on here.
 
beltsman

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
Waves said:
This. The USO is going to hurt him. I don’t think he will have much left in the tank for AO, unfortunately it looks like he’s been exposed. Really surprised that he lost that WB final still, he looked older than I’ve seen him, in many ways.

But I think he will not retire, but go down fighting hard. I saw a statistic once that in ufc, when an older champion splits the first two fights with a contender, the rubber match always goes to the younger fighter…feel the same is going on here.
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Djokovic also has a nagging knowledge that he would have lost RG if Alcaraz didn't cramp.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Krish0608 said:
This is not even Peak Carlos. It’s scary what he’s turning into. This was likely Novak’s last stand. He’ll be pumped for USO, but if it’s Carlos again on the other side, he’s going down again. It’s great for Novak’s legacy though that he won the RG encounter. That’s probably the only slam win he’s going to get against Alcaraz
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Always amazes me how extreme some users become based on the results of one match. What Alcaraz did is barely beat a 36 years old opponent, and that's after totally collapsing against him after just 2 sets in DO. In any other era nobody would see that as anything impressive. It's just that we are so used to the asterisk era that some see in that a GOAT potential performance. People are too used to Djokovic winning slams with 2/10 level draws.
 
J

jeroenn

Professional
StrongRule said:
Always amazes me how extreme some users become based on the results of one match. What Alcaraz did is barely beat a 36 years old opponent, and that's after totally collapsing against him after just 2 sets in DO.
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Technically, that's based on the results of 2 matches...

Some would call it an improvement. He learned from his previous match and improved himself.
Some may even find it impressive that this young man took Djokovic down in a 5th set of a wimbledon final - that being quite an accomplishment.
 
J

Jonas78

Legend
At AO, i will still have Djoker as fav, even if Carlo beats him at USO as well.

That said, the way Carlo beat him at W, he will not have the advantage of being the immortal Ultron anymore.

If Carlo stays away from injuries, Djoker hasnt many slams left in him.
 
Aestheticsaboveallelse

Aestheticsaboveallelse

Legend
Krish0608

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
StrongRule said:
Always amazes me how extreme some users become based on the results of one match. What Alcaraz did is barely beat a 36 years old opponent, and that's after totally collapsing against him after just 2 sets in DO. In any other era nobody would see that as anything impressive. It's just that we are so used to the asterisk era that some see in that a GOAT potential performance. People are too used to Djokovic winning slams with 2/10 level draws.
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In YEC 2003, in the round robin Federer beat Agassi for the first time ever by saving a match point in the final set TB. They played again a few days later in the final. It was a blowout of epic proportions with one of the greatest display of ball striking ever seen. It’s all mental.
 
S

Sampras-Bruguera 1993

Legend
Djoker was getting a little bit cocky perhaps and thought the CYGS was in the bag this year. I don't get expect that next time. No one was expecting Carlos to beat Nole really. Djoker will make adjustments. He knows what he has to do. No biggie. If there is a master of making adjustments its Nole. He may have needed this to be honest. To get him back to killer mode
 
M

mental midget

Hall of Fame
Winners or Errors said:
Alcaraz made nervous errors, too, and he hardly had a world-beater day for him. That loss wasn't just because Djokovic played poorly.
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for sure, both had their wobbles. novak's were more surprising just because we're used to him being pretty darn solid in the clutch. but he's human and to alcaraz's credit he didn't wilt, played with real conviction and it paid off.

i think novak knew it would be a test, don't think he underestimated carlos, just expressed surprise...like the rest of us, at how quickly alcaraz adapted to the grass. I always figured this would be a good surface for him...great mover, great hands, and great adjuster, which is super important on grass in particular where the bounces etc can be weird.

this will continue to be a great matchup i think...novak's lockdown mode is good enough to beat basically the rest of the tour, but alcaraz has the movement to weather that storm, plus the offense to take some of that lockdown material and force the issue with aggressive tennis. of course, novak also has the ability, if not the inclination, to hit harder and attack more, and i like the idea of him having to step out of his comfort zone and smack a few more winners.
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Lleytonstation said:
Exactly. He was a few points here and there from winning, possibly in Straights.

Imagine if he serves well next time.

This match usually goes djokers way. It didn't, but it can in the future.
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This match affirmed the believe that even if you defend for whole match , you can almost win it if you have a God like defense.
 
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