I don't see Alcaraz as anything more than a Jim Courier level player

GRASScaraz

GRASScaraz

Hall of Fame
Yes he'll probably win more slams as he plays in way more shallow tour with less talent than in the 1990's

But he'll never develop a deadly, easy holding serve because of how short he is.

Sinner has way more upside due to his length and is a complete nightmare for him.

Whether or not Sinner fulfills his abilities remains to be seen.

Everyone has been hyping Carlos this entire time but Sinner will be the one that is the top dog IMO.

Much like Fedal were supposed to be the kings yet Djokovic surpassed them both
 
At this point I agree. Although they aren't the same sort of player too. Courier was best on slower surfaces, and pretty mediocre on grass (the outlier of his Wimbledon 93 showing aside, and even there he never in a million years makes the final if he were in the other half) and carpet. Alcarez seems better on natural surfaces than he is on hard courts. But yes overall the jist of what you are saying is true ATM. Honestly he isn't even yet proven himself to be as good as Courier, despite being considerably better on grass of course.
 
GRASScaraz said:
Yes he'll probably win more slams as he plays in way more shallow tour with less talent than in the 1990's

But he'll never develop a deadly, easy holding serve because of how short he is.

Sinner has way more upside due to his length and is a complete nightmare for him.

Whether or not Sinner fulfills his abilities remains to be seen.

Everyone has been hyping Carlos this entire time but Sinner will be the one that is the top dog IMO.

Much like Fedal were supposed to be the kings yet Djokovic surpassed them both
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Wrong on pretty much every level. if you are looking for 90's comparisons, actually Sinner is more like Courier, and Alcaraz more like Sampras. Sampras was the prodigy with all the talent who got an early lead Major wise, was younger than Courier, but then the more steady bulldog with monster groundstrokes Courier took over for a couple of years as Sampras struggled with the expectations on him, which we may see next year with Alcaraz as Sinner goes on a bit of a tear.
However ultimately i expect Alcaraz to dominate Sinner like sampras did with courier as ultimately he has a better all round game.
As for Fedal, they were the kings in the Big 3 Era. Until injury stopped both they actually had the most slams so they were never in a posotion to do anything about someone overtaking them eventually.
 
GRASScaraz said:
Yes he'll probably win more slams as he plays in way more shallow tour with less talent than in the 1990's

But he'll never develop a deadly, easy holding serve because of how short he is.

Sinner has way more upside due to his length and is a complete nightmare for him.

Whether or not Sinner fulfills his abilities remains to be seen.

Everyone has been hyping Carlos this entire time but Sinner will be the one that is the top dog IMO.

Much like Fedal were supposed to be the kings yet Djokovic surpassed them both
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I thought you were an Alcaraz fan.
 
BGod said:
I say worse.

Courier made all Slam Finals in a much starker surface era losing to Sampras on grass and Edberg on hard.

Don't care if Carlos wins 8 in homogenized diluted talent era.
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Agreed. Mind if you Carlos improves his level of play, which I am 99% sure is going to happen given his age, that could change for sure. But at his current level, winning 8 slams in the field we have today I would agree.
 
BGod said:
I say worse.

Courier made all Slam Finals in a much starker surface era losing to Sampras on grass and Edberg on hard.

Don't care if Carlos wins 8 in homogenized diluted talent era.
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Nah man - they play when they play. By your point nothing any of the youngsters achieve will be worth anything. Which is bu££sh*t.

messiahrobins said:
Wrong on pretty much every level. if you are looking for 90's comparisons, actually Sinner is more like Courier, and Alcaraz more like Sampras. Sampras was the prodigy with all the talent who got an early lead Major wise, was younger than Courier, but then the more steady bulldog with monster groundstrokes Courier took over for a couple of years as Sampras struggled with the expectations on him, which we may see next year with Alcaraz as Sinner goes on a bit of a tear.
However ultimately i expect Alcaraz to dominate Sinner like sampras did with courier as ultimately he has a better all round game.
As for Fedal, they were the kings in the Big 3 Era. Until injury stopped both they actually had the most slams so they were never in a posotion to do anything about someone overtaking them eventually.
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Agree this, except that I don't expect anything. I hope Carlitos can excel further, but currently, no more than that.

Torben said:
He’s only a few years into the beginning of his career.

Man, give it some time.
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Heh, heh, you are trying to break the rule here - comparing a kid's achievements at the start of career to the concluded achievements of some of the greats, and then harping on about the weak era ad nauseam.
 
Tallawah Tennis said:
Nah man - they play when they play. By your point nothing any of the youngsters achieve will be worth anything. Which is bu££sh*t.


Agree this, except that I don't expect anything. I hope Carlitos can excel further, but currently, no more than that.


Heh, heh, you are trying to break the rule here - comparing a kid's achievements at the start of career to the concluded achievements of some of the greats, and then harping on about the weak era ad nauseam.
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Sometimes users forget he is literally 21 yrs old.
 
KingCarlitos said:
Sometimes users forget he is literally 21 yrs old.
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Disagree that it's a lapse of memory, more of a refusal to acknowledge the facts when spouting theories. It passes for discussion, especially when hyping up / down a player. Comparing to very good former players as an insult. What is wrong with being Courier like? Lazy, ill founded premise, based on nothing of merit.
 
It is true in fairness to Alcarez he is only 21. It shows how it is the worst field in history though when it is so dominated the last 3 years by a 18-21 year old and a 35-37 year old. Which ties into all the other points being made the evaluating him (thus far, not neccessarily the final evaluation).
 
Courier was 22 years and 5 months old when he won his fourth GS, he was still very young and he was the number one player in the world.

Then Sampras and Agassi improved, he didn't, and a number of extremely painful losses in very important matches at Grand Slam tournaments ended up killing his confidence (RG 93, WIM 93, Aus Open 94, RG 94, Aus Open 95, US Open 95, Aus Open 96 and RG 96 )
 
grandefrankie said:
It is true in fairness to Alcarez he is only 21. It shows how it is the worst field in history though when it is so dominated the last 3 years by a 18-21 year old and a 35-37 year old. Which ties into all the other points being made the evaluating him (thus far, not neccessarily the final evaluation).
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Only a Fed fan would say that. They love to hype the past with hyperbolic claims such as "this is the worst field in the history of humankind". I'm sure Philippoussis, Hewitt, Safin or Roddick were better than Alcaraz despite none of them having Slams on all surfaces like the Spaniard, right?
 
I Am Finnish said:
Hater
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Just unreal how the posts here have gotten stupider over the years. Also saw you posted this take everywhere on the internet, so clear you’re just looking to bait.

I like Sinner as much as anybody, but he has been schooled by Alcaraz this year on both HC and clay. Anyone who watched the IW match with even one eye open should be able to tell you how well Alcaraz handled Sinner, who even today suffers from a lack of variety. Alcaraz’s problem is that he is tactically not up there yet and still can be inconsistent. I honestly think he has far more upside than Sinner. Sinner though seems capable of having the courage to make big changes to his game (serve for example) to get to the next level.

In terms of talent, Alcaraz is the best one since Nadal at that age, bad era or not. And y’all compare him to Courier of all people, even though he already has the same number of slams. Sheesh. Even Courier himself would tell you Alcaraz is in a different class from him.
 
Keizer said:
Just unreal how the posts here have gotten stupider over the years. Also saw you posted this take everywhere on the internet, so clear you’re just looking to bait.

I like Sinner as much as anybody, but he has been schooled by Alcaraz this year on both HC and clay. Anyone who watched the IW match with even one eye open should be able to tell you how well Alcaraz handled Sinner, who even today suffers from a lack of variety. Alcaraz’s problem is that he is tactically not up there yet and still can be inconsistent. I honestly think he has far more upside than Sinner. Sinner though seems capable of having the courage to make big changes to his game (serve for example) to get to the next level.

In terms of talent, Alcaraz is the best one since Nadal at that age, bad era or not. And y’all compare him to Courier of all people, even though he already has the same number of slams. Sheesh. Even Courier himself would tell you Alcaraz is in a different class from him.
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Yep, Courier already said Alcaraz does not have a glaring weakness that he (Courier) did - the BH.
 
Keizer said:
Just unreal how the posts here have gotten stupider over the years. Also saw you posted this take everywhere on the internet, so clear you’re just looking to bait.

I like Sinner as much as anybody, but he has been schooled by Alcaraz this year on both HC and clay. Anyone who watched the IW match with even one eye open should be able to tell you how well Alcaraz handled Sinner, who even today suffers from a lack of variety. Alcaraz’s problem is that he is tactically not up there yet and still can be inconsistent. I honestly think he has far more upside than Sinner. Sinner though seems capable of having the courage to make big changes to his game (serve for example) to get to the next level.

In terms of talent, Alcaraz is the best one since Nadal at that age, bad era or not. And y’all compare him to Courier of all people, even though he already has the same number of slams. Sheesh. Even Courier himself would tell you Alcaraz is in a different class from him.
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It is commentators job to build up the current players. Alcarez is not a different class to Courier yet. If he were he wouldn't be losing almost every match to a 35-37 year old Djokovic.

Evert said while commentating on Ash Barty that Ash Barty is a different class of player to her and would beat her prime to prime. Enough said.

And Sinner is a better hard court player than Alcarez right now. Losing one match to him on hard courts this year does not change that. Alcarez clearly better on both clay and grass however.
 
grandefrankie said:
Alcarez is not a different class to Courier yet. If he were he wouldn't be losing almost every match to a 35-37 year old Djokovic.
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lol at losing almost every match to Djoker.

Carlos' biggest accomplishment to date is putting an end to all the ridiculous claims on this forum of Djokovic being the grass GOAT

Grass neophyte Carlos out-clutching Novak in '23 and destroying Novak in '24 did that trick - Thanks Carlos!
 
I can see the similarities. Jim had a better serve, forehand and volleys. Carlos has a better return and backhand. Carlos would not have made the final of Wimbledon in 1993 while Jim would be amazing in the current era. Jim played with a PS 85 with syngut. Imagine Jim with a 100sq" Babolat and a full bed of poly. Now imagine Carlos with a PS85 and a full bed of syn gut. He'd look like a clown and his shots would be completely ineffective.
 
Devilito said:
I can see the similarities. Jim had a better serve, forehand and volleys. Carlos has a better return and backhand. Carlos would not have made the final of Wimbledon in 1993 while Jim would be amazing in the current era. Jim played with a PS 85 with syngut. Imagine Jim with a 100sq" Babolat and a full bed of poly. Now imagine Carlos with a PS85 and a full bed of syn gut. He'd look like a clown and his shots would be completely ineffective.
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Cool story. Alcaraz is miles better than Courier and will deservedly win at least 7-10 more Slams than the later.

Also, your claim "Alcaraz would not have made the final of WImbledon in 1993" is untestable, therefore irrelevant. "Would" and "if" belong to speculation. If, if, if, doesn't exist.

Fact is, Alcaraz has 2 W titles (both won against Novak), while Courier has 0, so Raz is simply a superior grass player.
 
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norcal said:
lol at losing almost every match to Djoker.

Carlos' biggest accomplishment to date is putting an end to all the ridiculous claims on this forum of Djokovic being the grass GOAT

Grass neophyte Carlos out-clutching Novak in '23 and destroying Novak in '24 did that trick - Thanks Carlos!
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So he wins some matches vs a 37 year old, congrats, GOAT feats. :-D :-D

He still loses a lot of matches to 35-37 year old Djokovic which is not a higher level of play than peak Courier. Of course Alcarez is still young and not in his prime himself, but this is discussing what he has shown/is thus far.

Yes Djokovic being grass GOAT was the most ridiculous idea ever, you atleast got that part right. No way in hell he is even better than Sampras, never mind Federer.
 
GRASScaraz said:
Yes he'll probably win more slams as he plays in way more shallow tour with less talent than in the 1990's

But he'll never develop a deadly, easy holding serve because of how short he is.

Sinner has way more upside due to his length and is a complete nightmare for him.

Whether or not Sinner fulfills his abilities remains to be seen.

Everyone has been hyping Carlos this entire time but Sinner will be the one that is the top dog IMO.

Much like Fedal were supposed to be the kings yet Djokovic surpassed them both
Click to expand...
If he’s healthy he will win at least double the amount of majors as Courier. His game is way more complete than JC. No disrespect to JC but Carlitos is on another level talent wise.
 
Quaichang said:
If he’s healthy he will win at least double the amount of majors as Courier. His game is way more complete than JC. No disrespect to JC but Carlitos is on another level talent wise.
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Yes the worst field in history vs Courier playing in one of the golden ages of the game has nothing to do with how many majors each man will win. :rolleyes:
 
grandefrankie said:
Yes the worst field in history vs Courier playing in one of the golden ages of the game has nothing to do with how many majors each man will win. :rolleyes:
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Not sure why you're so upset, Courier himself said he would not be as successful as Carlos is today because he wouldn't be able to hide his backhand as well as he did in his day. He (Courier) said Alcaraz is better because he doesn't have that glaring weakness (Courier's BH).

Go argue with Courier.
 
norcal said:
Not sure why you're so upset, Courier himself said he would not be as successful as Carlos is today because he wouldn't be able to hide his backhand as well as he did in his day. He (Courier) said Alcaraz is better because he doesn't have that glaring weakness (Courier's BH).

Go argue with Courier.
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Anyone who takes commentary by ex greats seriously is clueless. It is their job to promote the current game, they are doing their job. Chris Evert said Ash Barty was superior to her, and prime to prime she would lose most matches to Barty so if you believe this to be true, ok. Otherwise null and void to anything an ex player commentating says.
 
Sport said:
Only a Fed fan would say that. They love to hype the past with hyperbolic claims such as "this is the worst field in the history of humankind". I'm sure Philippoussis, Hewitt, Safin or Roddick were better than Alcaraz despite none of them having Slams on all surfaces like the Spaniard, right?
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Not just a Fed fan. It comes down to whether you truly believe there is a lack of depth on the Tour today.
 
GRASScaraz said:
Yes he'll probably win more slams as he plays in way more shallow tour with less talent than in the 1990's

But he'll never develop a deadly, easy holding serve because of how short he is.

Sinner has way more upside due to his length and is a complete nightmare for him.

Whether or not Sinner fulfills his abilities remains to be seen.

Everyone has been hyping Carlos this entire time but Sinner will be the one that is the top dog IMO.

Much like Fedal were supposed to be the kings yet Djokovic surpassed them both
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He is only 1 inch shorter than Sampras who had one of the greatest serves of all time. 6ft is plenty tall enough.
 
Worst field in history but he has beaten the GOAT to win 2 of his majors. I’ve been watching tennis since the 80s. This kid is a generational talent.
 
grandefrankie said:
So he wins some matches vs a 37 year old, congrats, GOAT feats. :-D :-D

He still loses a lot of matches to 35-37 year old Djokovic which is not a higher level of play than peak Courier. Of course Alcarez is still young and not in his prime himself, but this is discussing what he has shown/is thus far.

Yes Djokovic being grass GOAT was the most ridiculous idea ever, you atleast got that part right. No way in hell he is even better than Sampras, never mind Federer.
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Nobody called him the GOAT, he will surely be greater than Courier when his career is done though.
 
Aabye5 said:
Not just a Fed fan. It comes down to whether you truly believe there is a lack of depth on the Tour today.
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I mean I think it would be common sense to anyone with half a brain a field that has Casper Ruud in 3 slam finals within 13 months is objectively terrible and historically bad. I guess some people have less than half a brain however.
 
KingCarlitos said:
Nobody called him the GOAT, he will surely be greater than Courier when his career is done though.
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Well that is plainly obvious but the topic is about now, not projecting to the future. Especialy as you never know the future, you can have a career ending injury or gigantic slump you never fully get out of.

And on the first part there are numerous absurd "Sinner and/or Carlos GOAT" threads on this site.
 
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