I get more spin from 18x20 than 16x19, anyone else have the same experience ?

[Happi]

I have a Racquet that comes in both 16x19 and 18x20 version, same weight, balance point just different string pattern.

I get more spin from the 18x20 version, and this is not logical for all I know.

Does anyone else have the same experience ?

I have the idea that I swing more confident with the 18x20 and that could contribute to more spin. Perhaps I swing more low to high with the 18x20 as it have lower launch angle. I use thinner gauge strings 18g or 17g in the 18x20 and 16g in the 16x19, and perhaps that could be the explanation.

Please share your experience.

Cheers, H

 

[McGradey]

Maybe due to more racquet head speed as you feel you have more control and want/need to swing faster.

 

[kingcheetah]

I find that I can hit a heavier shot with 18x20, for the same reason, I'm more comfortable with it and thus swing more freely.

 

[basil J]

I am same way. I get more spin, but a lower launch angel with my 18 x20's than my 16 x 18's or 19's. I can feel the strings bite into the ball more. I serve better with 16 x 19's, but everywhere else I usually prefer an 18 x 20.

 

[ThisHockeyTalk]

Thiem.

 

[EggSalad]

It’s not unusual. Spin is mostly technique with things like string pattern or string type adding incremental value.

I’m not sure I could physically hit more spin than I did with a Gravity Pro which is 18x20.

 

[Djinn]

Racquet, strings, string pattern, and string tension all make a difference in the amount of spin your shots generate, But the amount of difference all those things make put together is negligible when compared to the shot technique of the player.

Look at the below graph for example:

https://imgur.com/gXrRpkX

Tsitsipas is hitting as much topspin on his forehand as Nadal. Thiem is hitting more spin on his forehand than Nadal. Both these players use 98 sq. in. tight 18*20 patterns. Then if you look at Ruud and Berrettini, they appear to be in a league of their own where topspin on the forehand side is concerned.

If everything including weight, balance, swingweight, string, string tension, etc. are the same between your two racquets, then you are probably just swinging the 18*20 faster and with better spin oriented technique.

 

[3loudboys]

I’m still using the Textreme Tour 100P 2015 version. It’s an 18x20 but the spacing between strings is as big if not bigger than comparable 16x19 frames. I also tend to get additional spin from the wider spacing and that it is a control orientated frame that allows for quick swing speed. How is the spacing on yours?

Edit: I have also seen some 16x19's that are very dense in the middle of the stringbed - one of the older gen APD's had a very dense sweet spot and that thing had great spin potential.

 

[socallefty]

Is OP‘s experience true for both serves and groundstrokes (GS) or only GS? With a 18x20, I can swing harder on GS due to the increased control and maintain my spin level compared to a 16x19 in spite of the lower launch angle. But, I find it hard to change my serve swing speed and so, I usually get more spin on serves with a 16x19. With more spin on the serve, I end up hitting it harder also.

 

[Deleted member 775108]

I have a Racquet that comes in both 16x19 and 18x20 version, same weight, balance point just different string pattern.

I get more spin from the 18x20 version, and this is not logical for all I know.

Does anyone else have the same experience ?

I have the idea that I swing more confident with the 18x20 and that could contribute to more spin. Perhaps I swing more low to high with the 18x20 as it have lower launch angle. I use thinner gauge strings 18g or 17g in the 18x20 and 16g in the 16x19, and perhaps that could be the explanation.

Please share your experience.

Cheers, H

I can definitely get more usable spin in 18x20 with 18g than 16x19 with 16g mainly because my technique is not strong enough to keep the ball in consistently with the 16x19. Separately the feel of the 16g is too stiff / brassy... And the worse it feels the more I tighten up and less I can perform the relaxed forehand and backhand to provide the spin.

 

[Steve Huff]

I am same way. I get more spin, but a lower launch angel with my 18 x20's than my 16 x 18's or 19's. I can feel the strings bite into the ball more. I serve better with 16 x 19's, but everywhere else I usually prefer an 18 x 20.

If this is true for you, then you are changing your stroke some because the same characteristics that give spin are the same ones that increase launch angle. Spin and launch angle are caused by the string gripping the ball more on an upward swing. Ball grip can be caused by a thicker, rougher string, or a thinner string, in combination with a more flexible frame, or some technology that keeps the ball on the strings longer (triangulated cross section on some older Yonex rackets), etc.

 

[Keizer]

Sinner is the weird one here. Didn’t realize how flat his FH was, compared to BH.

 

[Warren S]

Could be the results of a denser string pattern and a little more "english" being applied by the tighter pattern. Over the years I played with Volkl and Wilson !8x20 frames, but only for a short while. I always drifted back to a 16x19 pattern because I preferred the extra power without the need to swing harder.

 

[Happi]

Is OP‘s experience true for both serves and groundstrokes (GS) or only GS? With a 18x20, I can swing harder on GS due to the increased control and maintain my spin level compared to a 16x19 in spite of the lower launch angle. But, I find it hard to change my serve swing speed and so, I usually get more spin on serves with a 16x19. With more spin on the serve, I end up hitting it harder also.

Yes my groundstrokes are better with the 18x20 but serve better with the 16x19, this is a big dilemma. I am drifting towards improving serve with 18x20 and see if I can work that out.

 

[socallefty]

Yes my groundstrokes are better with the 18x20 but serve better with the 16x19, this is a big dilemma. I am drifting towards improving serve with 18x20 and see if I can work that out.

Your situation is not unusual. You might be able to change your string job (thicker gauge, higher tension, stiffer string etc.) to get more control and spin with the 16x19 on groundstrokes while likely you can still maintain your good serve. It is harder to improve the serve to generate more spin by changing string jobs on a 18x20 - for that you have to increase your racquet head speed (RHS) by improving your technique. I think a 18x20 is good for players who have a great serve even with the dense pattern.

 

[Happi]

Thank you all for your input, it great that I am not alone with that experience. I was also wondering why some pro players (Thiem, Rublev) hit massive spin with 18x20 patterns, but it now kind of makes sense.

My racquets are Angell TC95 310/315 RA63 in both 18x20 ans 16x19, SW strung are for both 325. TC95 16x19 is a very open string pattern while the 18x20 is a dense. I think when reflecting there are some reasons for my added spin with the 18x20.

1. I suffered from TE and GE and had to change from poly strings to multi strings to save my arm. I have now grown very fond of multi strings, and really like the feel, not sure if I ever get back to poly again not even in hybrids. Perhaps thin multi strings 18g and 17g works better with a 18x20 frame than 16g multi for a 16x19 frame. I string for the same DT, but that is lower tension for the 18x20 and perhaps more ball pocketing. I will try some more 1.30 or 1.35 multis for the 16x19 to see if that works.

2. The 18x20 is a very even stringed and with a lot of control, makes me swing with more confident. Knowing it has a low launch angle perhaps makes me swing more upwards with more spin. Dept control is excellent. With the 16x19 and multi, balls sometimes fly for me, and perhaps I then swing with lower speed and thus lower spin. Just assumptions but I think I might change my swing going from 16x19 to 18x20.

I am totally sold to TC95 18x20 and multi strings, but only problem is that serve is better with 16x19 as well as power. TC95 18x20 still hits a very heavy ball.

Cheers, H

 

[Happi]

Your situation is not unusual. You might be able to change your string job (thicker gauge, higher tension, stiffer string etc.) to get more control and spin with the 16x19 on groundstrokes while likely you can still maintain your good serve. It is harder to improve the serve to generate more spin by changing string jobs on a 18x20 - for that you have to increase your racquet head speed (RHS) by improving your technique. I think a 18x20 is good for players who have a great serve even with the dense pattern.

Yes, problem is that my arm can't tolerate polys anymore, I think I used my 9 life there. Its FB multi strings for me and that is a bit tricky regarding spin.

I use X-One 1.24 or 1.18 in my TC95 18x20 and that combo is just magic for me. I still serve well with 18x20 but with 16x19 I just get this "extra" I will work on my serve to see if I can adjust.

EDIT: I play a lot of doubles, and perhaps I could just swap to 16x19 in my service game, not sure how that would work, but I think I will try it out.

 

[socallefty]

Did you cut it poly within 10-15 hours once it goes dead and you start experiencing tightness (even before pain) in your arm? Also, did you string below 50 lbs. That is the safe and recommended way to use poly. Players get injuries with poly because they play with it too long after it is dead.

A 16x19 is best used with poly or poly hybrid so that you can swing out freely as poly has lower launch angles than softer strings. If you are really stuck with using only soft strings, then you will need a 18x20 to get control if you take big swings at the ball. In that case, take some service lessons to improve your serve further with the dense pattern.

 

[Happi]

Did you cut it poly within 10-15 hours once it goes dead and you start experiencing tightness (even before pain) in your arm? also, did you string below 50 lbs. That is the safe and recommended way to use poly.

A 16x19 is best used with poly or poly hybrid so that you can swing out freely as poly has lower launch angles than softer strings. If you are really stuck with using only soft strings, then you will need a 18x20 to get control if you take big swings at the ball. In that case, take some service lessons to improve your serve further with the dense pattern.

Yes all the way down to under 40 and with soft polys, cut within 8-10 hours. Tried all the soft polys, CF, Cream, YTPA, GW and so on, also tried gut/poly, I could even feel the poly in a multi string like TRIAX. I think I used up my luck with poly, on the other hand I have gown very fond of the feel of multi strings. I am aging, and think I might not have the racquet speed anymore to take the full advantage of poly strings.

My elbow has completely cleared up, but I am reluctant to even test a poly string again, that injury has scared the S#€% out of me.

My thoughts is the same, multis works much better with 18x20 to have the control if swinging out, thanks for posting that.

Good idea with serve lessons

 

[Happi]

I’m still using the Textreme Tour 100P 2015 version. It’s an 18x20 but the spacing between strings is as big if not bigger than comparable 16x19 frames. I also tend to get additional spin from the wider spacing and that it is a control orientated frame that allows for quick swing speed. How is the spacing on yours?

Edit: I have also seen some 16x19's that are very dense in the middle of the stringbed - one of the older gen APD's had a very dense sweet spot and that thing had great spin potential.

All time favorite frame and I still have some 2015 in my storage room, just got the new ATS100P this summer too, really like that racquet and string spacing is like a 16x19 but with added control. I might go back to that frame, if my venture with Angell TC95 18x20 does not work out. I am almost certain that I am all in on 18x20 frames.

 

[3loudboys]

All time favorite frame and I still have some 2015 in my storage room, just got the new ATS100P this summer too, really like that racquet and string spacing is like a 16x19 but with added control. I might go back to that frame, if my venture with Angell TC95 18x20 does not work out. I am almost certain that I am all in on 18x20 frames.

Does the ATS100P play similar to the 2015? The TW review suggested that it was close as it was softer and slightly lower powered. I was interested in the Angells for a while but could never decide what my preferred set up was. To many options lol. Interesting - a 95 with 18x20 is a classic oldskool set up - my favourite of that type was the Head Radical Tour - it just got to heavy for old bones.

 

[Happi]

Does the ATS100P play similar to the 2015? The TW review suggested that it was close as it was softer and slightly lower powered. I was interested in the Angells for a while but could never decide what my preferred set up was. To many options lol. Interesting - a 95 with 18x20 is a classic oldskool set up - my favourite of that type was the Head Radical Tour - it just got to heavy for old bones.

Yes very similar indeed, perhaps a tiny bit more stability on the ATS100P - but no need to change your TT100P (2015) for the new ATS100P

The Angell TC95 is really a great racquet in both patterns, TT100P string spacing is in between but closer to the TC95 16x19. I started out with Angell TC100 16x19 and ordered the same (or close to) spec as my TT100P. TC100 was way more powerful, so I changed to TC95 16x19 and later to TC95 18x20, Angell racquets are high quality and if you live in the UK you could perhaps get a demo direct from Angell.

 

[3loudboys]

Yes very similar indeed, perhaps a tiny bit more stability on the ATS100P - but no need to change your TT100P (2015) for the new ATS100P

The Angell TC95 is really a great racquet in both patterns, TT100P string spacing is in between but closer to the TC95 16x19. I started out with Angell TC100 16x19 and ordered the same (or close to) spec as my TT100P. TC100 was way more powerful, so I changed to TC95 16x19 and later to TC95 18x20, Angell racquets are high quality and if you live in the UK you could perhaps get a demo direct from Angell.

That might well be worth a try. The 100 at a length of 27.25 inch is very tempting. The extra length is helpful on two hander and serve.

 

[ProRadTour]

I always thought the more strings that make contact with the ball the more grip on the ball. Seems to make sense to me that if you have the right technique you should hit a heavier ball with 18x20. It's just requires more effort.

I think this is evident on the slice backhand, 18x20 seems to produce a heavier more penetrating shot. It would be interesting to measure rpms on that shot with an 18x20 vs 16x19.

I think it's the launch angle that creates the perception of more spin. I could be way wrong here.

 

[brownbearfalling]

Thank you all for your input, it great that I am not alone with that experience. I was also wondering why some pro players (Thiem, Rublev) hit massive spin with 18x20 patterns, but it now kind of makes sense.

My racquets are Angell TC95 310/315 RA63 in both 18x20 ans 16x19, SW strung are for both 325. TC95 16x19 is a very open string pattern while the 18x20 is a dense. I think when reflecting there are some reasons for my added spin with the 18x20.

1. I suffered from TE and GE and had to change from poly strings to multi strings to save my arm. I have now grown very fond of multi strings, and really like the feel, not sure if I ever get back to poly again not even in hybrids. Perhaps thin multi strings 18g and 17g works better with a 18x20 frame than 16g multi for a 16x19 frame. I string for the same DT, but that is lower tension for the 18x20 and perhaps more ball pocketing. I will try some more 1.30 or 1.35 multis for the 16x19 to see if that works.

2. The 18x20 is a very even stringed and with a lot of control, makes me swing with more confident. Knowing it has a low launch angle perhaps makes me swing more upwards with more spin. Dept control is excellent. With the 16x19 and multi, balls sometimes fly for me, and perhaps I then swing with lower speed and thus lower spin. Just assumptions but I think I might change my swing going from 16x19 to 18x20.

Cheers, H

do you feel that spin is “easier” to generate with the 16m than the 18m? Phrased one more way, does 16 give your more “access to spin” than the 18m? Also how are you measuring this spin? Is it your feel alone, hitting partner commenting or a scientific measure?

If you want to be sure that the extra spin is caused by the string pattern, you would want to keep all other variables constant. This includes string type, tension, guage, grip, etc. by answering the above questions and performing a more scientific experiment I think you might come to the same conclusion that is generally accepted: the more open the string pattern= the more “access to spin “ or easier to produce spin or more spin “potential” there is.

Dont get me wrong, I sometimes prefer a 18m pattern as well. Especially in a 95sq in headsize. I’m referring to the six one 95 2010 generation. I owned both and the 18m pattern out performed the 16m in every way. My shot may have had more spin on the 18m because I prefer that model. But I still agree with the general consensus that the more open pattern had more“spin potential”.

 

[Happi]

do you feel that spin is “easier” to generate with the 16m than the 18m? Phrased one more way, does 16 give your more “access to spin” than the 18m? Also how are you measuring this spin? Is it your feel alone, hitting partner commenting or a scientific measure?

If you want to be sure that the extra spin is caused by the string pattern, you would want to keep all other variables constant. This includes string type, tension, guage, grip, etc. by answering the above questions and performing a more scientific experiment I think you might come to the same conclusion that is generally accepted: the more open the string pattern= the more “access to spin “ or easier to produce spin or more spin “potential” there is.

Dont get me wrong, I sometimes prefer a 18m pattern as well. Especially in a 95sq in headsize. I’m referring to the six one 95 2010 generation. I owned both and the 18m pattern out performed the 16m in every way. My shot may have had more spin on the 18m because I prefer that model. But I still agree with the general consensus that the more open pattern had more“spin potential”.

That was my clear assumption too, but in reality I produce more spin with the 18M version of TC95 than the 16M. I have hitting partners telling me that I hit more spin now than ever before (and before I used poly strings), and I can also see this myself. I am thinking as 18M have a lower launch angle, that I am changing my ground strokes and thus creating more spin. If I change my groundstrokes the same way with the 16M, it becomes erratic and balls start to fly on me.

So my conclusion is that it is a combination of racquet and swing, meaning that the 18M allows me to swing in a way that creates more spin.

I try to keep all variables constant, but thin multi strings does not work well in a 16M racquet.

 

[Happi]

I always thought the more strings that make contact with the ball the more grip on the ball. Seems to make sense to me that if you have the right technique you should hit a heavier ball with 18x20. It's just requires more effort.

I think this is evident on the slice backhand, 18x20 seems to produce a heavier more penetrating shot. It would be interesting to measure rpms on that shot with an 18x20 vs 16x19.

I think it's the launch angle that creates the perception of more spin. I could be way wrong here.

Interesting you might be onto something there.

I agree that the slice backhand is very good with 18M.

 

[socallefty]

Try a racquet like the Pure Strike Tour which is a 16x19, but the string pattern is more dense in the middle than in the edges. You get the best both worlds. With groundstrokes that hit the big sweet spot in the center, the ball is struck in the area where the strings are more dense. With serves, you typically make contact a bit higher up in the vertical plane closer to the racquet tip than the center of the string bed and here it is more open.