I Hate Pushers And Moonballers!
- Thread starter rb__11
- Start date
rb__11
Rookie
i thought if you wanted to look good, you would want to hit with a pusher since he would just get the ball back and you would be the one to rip the winners
of course, if your ending shots go into the net then it's a different story.
hahahahhahahahaaha you got me
G
guitarplayer
Guest
When I play pushers I just run them side to side. Once I got them breathing heavy I start drop shoting and lobing, if I just play from the baseline. Serve and volley along with chip and charge works well against a pusher too. Sometimes I just play the moonball game along with them for a good work out. It is actually a fun style to play once and a while. Nothing is better than beating someone at their game. Just play smart and do not force shots. Keep your head up at all times. Pushers are counting on fustration and you do not want to give them any motivation. Patience and constant pressure is key. Always be ready for the next shot, even if your last shot was that good. They are often great retrievers.
This...great advice.
Also, as you improve and are able to hit harder, you will soon be able to run them side to side......and remember....the ball is faster than they can run. Give it time.
G
guitarplayer
Guest
Another thing I've learned when playing the high school kids from our club is......they all want to be Roddick or Nadal clones. All hav.e Babolat frames and stand at the baseline bashing away. They are darn good at it to.
So I try to give them nothing to use for their wheelhouse. Slice, junk balls, drop shots, lobs, bring them in a few feet from the baseline...screws up their depth they are used to hitting. They hate me.
So I try to give them nothing to use for their wheelhouse. Slice, junk balls, drop shots, lobs, bring them in a few feet from the baseline...screws up their depth they are used to hitting. They hate me.
1HBH Rocks
Semi-Pro
You don't have to take it to the lines... you just need to place it well enough to force your opponent to perform with some adjustment -- and since he's no pro, you do not necessarily need a perfect shot; just an angle or any ball that would drag him near the side lines to hit his shot is plenty enough to make hitting with accuracy a lot more difficult. Remember that you don't need to end the point on the short ball; you can think of it as an approach and the idea then becomes to lessen his accuracy, make it more difficult for him to avoid your comfort zone. He's probably going to lob, but lobbing is a hitter's sloppy second -- it's hard to be really accurate, unless you're good enough to put nice spin on the ball. If you force him to move, although he's used to hitting high, he might leave it more centered and probably won't be able to reach your backhand side efficiently.
There are some footwork patterns which allow you to hit your approach without stopping your forward progression; if you could learn to make good contact with them, it would make you very dangerous on short balls, even against harder hitters.
Here's your player, performing some of the neatest footwork movement ever witnessed. Watch what are the different ways he uses to hit approach shots in that drill and you might learn a thing that could change your life when playing pushers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mEBBw0tj9_0
1HBH Rocks
Semi-Pro
You don't necessarily need to throw junk at them... They're HS players and they're probably also poorly coached tactically wise. Most people are convinced pros try to get deep rally balls and I am sure it's the advice they got. The problem is that's playing linear tennis all too much. If you're smarter than them, you don't need to be forced into linear bashing where you win points by hitting through your opponent... use their pace and add spin to widen the ground they have to cover. Of course, you can trick them into moving forward by angling a low slice, especially on their backhand side, but you don't get the same sort of challenge for yourself. If you want to build a game that involves something else than junk balling, you need to work on that even during matches.
As I said, you win with your feet, not your strokes.
1HBH Rocks
Semi-Pro
Not really a great advice. Even if the pace is off, changing direction can still be problematic, even further if you are forced forward. And you don't need to be running an opponent from side to side to win a rally; if anything, it's a low percentage play most of the time.
1HBH Rocks
Semi-Pro
ALERT -- Philosophy lies ahead. Read to your own risk.
When this happens, we talk about equivocation. They are equivocal, not well defined.
When a meaning is subjective, we pretend that the definition relies upon the judgement or the contention of a subject -- i.e., you're right to say as you do because you are the basis of the definition (we could also accept its application to the convention of a group). If I say they're equivocal, no doubt remains: the terms are too vague and people grant them a much too loose application for them to convey the ideas the authors wants them to convey properly.
halalula1234
Professional
oh gee those annoying people!/
Played one guy about a year ago who lobs and lot and had no power and was very annoying about calls!. I lost. Reason was when i made a call which was out but close to the line, he would start to make a fuss about it.,..... And i let it get into my head and even said sorry during change of ends..(what was i thinking?)So i lost that match.
But im more experienced now after that match.
If the ball was out and it was on your side. You have the right to call it , not him,.
SO dont give in and think about it. Just be assertive that it was out and dont let him pressure into changing it or else u'll be buggered about it for the next point on two.
I used to be like you and care too much about my opponents and calls etc, but eventually i became more self centered
but still fair (if its out its out and if its in its in).
and i think a good way to beat a pusher is to place your balls and work your way up for an easy put away (smash,volley, swing volley). I've been working on a swinging volley and it works real good against these people.
Played one guy about a year ago who lobs and lot and had no power and was very annoying about calls!. I lost. Reason was when i made a call which was out but close to the line, he would start to make a fuss about it.,..... And i let it get into my head and even said sorry during change of ends..(what was i thinking?)So i lost that match.
But im more experienced now after that match.
If the ball was out and it was on your side. You have the right to call it , not him,.
SO dont give in and think about it. Just be assertive that it was out and dont let him pressure into changing it or else u'll be buggered about it for the next point on two.
I used to be like you and care too much about my opponents and calls etc, but eventually i became more self centered
but still fair (if its out its out and if its in its in).and i think a good way to beat a pusher is to place your balls and work your way up for an easy put away (smash,volley, swing volley). I've been working on a swinging volley and it works real good against these people.
Not on this board, apparently anyone who can hit the ball into the court more times than you can is a 'pusher'. The number of threads and posts by players saying they lost to inferior players (i.e. pushers) is a joke. In the vast majority of cases the better player wins, period. If you lost the sad truth is you are not as good as you thought (fantasized, dreamed, hoped, want others to think) you are. If you can only play well against players who hit at a certain pace you are simply not very good, it's as simple as that. And no way a '4.5' loses to a pusher, no way. A good player can adapt. No one, and I mean no one, buys the 'I lost to a player worse than me', so stop it already.
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G
guitarplayer
Guest
You sure make a lot of assumptions...which makes a lot of your babbling just that.
Steady Eddy
Legend
Try this next time you play a pusher.
Hit a short ball to bring him to the net. Pushers aren't much of a threat at the net, so that's where you want them to be. If he scrambles back to the baseline, hit another short ball, he'll tire and have to stay at the net sooner or later.
When you have him at the net, you've got a few options. I think the best one is to lob him back to the baseline. If he can smash every lob for a winner, then he's not really a pusher. Or, instead of lobbing you can hit it hard right at him. If you have good aim, aim for his right hip.
But the worst thing to do is to exchange drives from the baseline. It's really hard to hit winners from the backcourt, and the pushers slow balls give you no pace for your shots. In short, you do all the gambling and he just plays it safe. Get the pusher away from the baseline. Do that and most fall apart.
Hit a short ball to bring him to the net. Pushers aren't much of a threat at the net, so that's where you want them to be. If he scrambles back to the baseline, hit another short ball, he'll tire and have to stay at the net sooner or later.
When you have him at the net, you've got a few options. I think the best one is to lob him back to the baseline. If he can smash every lob for a winner, then he's not really a pusher. Or, instead of lobbing you can hit it hard right at him. If you have good aim, aim for his right hip.
But the worst thing to do is to exchange drives from the baseline. It's really hard to hit winners from the backcourt, and the pushers slow balls give you no pace for your shots. In short, you do all the gambling and he just plays it safe. Get the pusher away from the baseline. Do that and most fall apart.
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
OP, just want to make it clear I wasn't calling you arrogant. That's my experience with the HS players I know, but I wasn't judging you.
Off topic just a bit, 1HBH Rocks, have you tried the smart target stuff from 5263? I am reading through the thread now and it makes a lot of sense to me, but would like your opinion
Seems like a good way to beat pushers as well
Off topic just a bit, 1HBH Rocks, have you tried the smart target stuff from 5263? I am reading through the thread now and it makes a lot of sense to me, but would like your opinion
Seems like a good way to beat pushers as well
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
I personally don't use this strategy, but many of my friends do and it works. If you don't like to S&V, this is a good second option. I've seen pushers so scared of the net that you can drop shot them and they will sprint back to the baseline, they don't chance hitting the volley.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2Q4Y
"The Pusher"
Steppenwolf 1969
lyrics and melody by Hoyt Axton
"You know I've smoked a lot of grass
O' Lord, I've popped a lot of pills
But I never touched nothin'
That my spirit could kill
You know, I've seen a lot of people walkin' 'round
With tombstones in their eyes
But the pusher don't care
Ah, if you live or if you die
"God damn, The Pusher
God damn, I say The Pusher
I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man
"You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
With the love grass in his hand
Oh but the pusher is a monster
Good God, he's not a natural man
The dealer for a nickel
Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams
Ah, but the pusher ruin your body
Lord, he'll leave your, he'll leave your mind to scream
"God damn, The Pusher
God damn, God damn the Pusher
I said God damn, God, God damn The Pusher man
"Well, now if I were the president of this land
You know, I'd declare total war on The Pusher man
I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run
Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun
"God damn The Pusher
God damn The Pusher
I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man."
"The Pusher"
Steppenwolf 1969
lyrics and melody by Hoyt Axton
"You know I've smoked a lot of grass
O' Lord, I've popped a lot of pills
But I never touched nothin'
That my spirit could kill
You know, I've seen a lot of people walkin' 'round
With tombstones in their eyes
But the pusher don't care
Ah, if you live or if you die
"God damn, The Pusher
God damn, I say The Pusher
I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man
"You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
With the love grass in his hand
Oh but the pusher is a monster
Good God, he's not a natural man
The dealer for a nickel
Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams
Ah, but the pusher ruin your body
Lord, he'll leave your, he'll leave your mind to scream
"God damn, The Pusher
God damn, God damn the Pusher
I said God damn, God, God damn The Pusher man
"Well, now if I were the president of this land
You know, I'd declare total war on The Pusher man
I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run
Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun
"God damn The Pusher
God damn The Pusher
I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man."
rb__11
Rookie
oh gee those annoying people!/
Played one guy about a year ago who lobs and lot and had no power and was very annoying about calls!. I lost. Reason was when i made a call which was out but close to the line, he would start to make a fuss about it.,..... And i let it get into my head and even said sorry during change of ends..(what was i thinking?)So i lost that match.
But im more experienced now after that match.
If the ball was out and it was on your side. You have the right to call it , not him,.
SO dont give in and think about it. Just be assertive that it was out and dont let him pressure into changing it or else u'll be buggered about it for the next point on two.
I used to be like you and care too much about my opponents and calls etc, but eventually i became more self centered
and i think a good way to beat a pusher is to place your balls and work your way up for an easy put away (smash,volley, swing volley). I've been working on a swinging volley and it works real good against these people.
you really get me. thanks a lot
rb__11
Rookie
thanks. those are actually awesome tips. will try this next time
rb__11
Rookie
maybe i can do the best of both worlds and mix s&v with drop shots, lobs and slices
rb__11
Rookie
yeah, i totally agree with you. we could never see any player losing to a weaker player. oh no, we see it all the time
G
guitarplayer
Guest
RB...I am not very tall, thus the S&V game has never been much of an option for me. Once I improved to where I could hit harder than them with much more topspin, I was able to move them around much more, keep them back, then hit them short balls or drop shots to force them to the net...out of their comfort zone.
Moving them up and back wears them out much more than side to side. Once you tire them a bit, you should be able to start passing them easier or coming in on shorter balls and cutting it off. You really have to be patient. Frustrating you and getting you to go for winners to end the pain is their game plan. Don't fall for it.
Moving them up and back wears them out much more than side to side. Once you tire them a bit, you should be able to start passing them easier or coming in on shorter balls and cutting it off. You really have to be patient. Frustrating you and getting you to go for winners to end the pain is their game plan. Don't fall for it.
Unless you can blow him of court, the key to play a pusher is to construct plays that will help you win the point. If you are a 4.5, there should be a number of plays that should help, knowing the pusher cannot finish or close a point..
Some examples:
1) hit deep topspins and follow it up to the net to finish the point
2) draw the pusher forward with a short slice and then pass
3) Angle the ball, to take him off court and finish
....
These work with most pushers i play with (i am a 5.0), you could try something sililar based on your style of play
Some examples:
1) hit deep topspins and follow it up to the net to finish the point
2) draw the pusher forward with a short slice and then pass
3) Angle the ball, to take him off court and finish
....
These work with most pushers i play with (i am a 5.0), you could try something sililar based on your style of play
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
I'm 6"3 and use a platform stance. Raonic is like 6"6 and uses a platform stance. It all depends what feels best to you. Both stances have their pros or cons, but dont switch only because your tall. If you can serve well with your current stance keep it and keep improving on it
rb__11
Rookie
pretty much sums it up
never whine about the other guys strokes ; if you are better, you will win
Mick
Legend
yep. IMO, you play your way, i play my way.
surprisingly, people complain about pushers but they don't complain about the other styles.
i find other styles are much more difficult to handle. At least with pushers, they just get the ball back.
The other styles, they also get the ball back but would give you almost no time to react.
Venetian
Professional
Not really surprising to me. People complain about pushers because they get beat by one and suddenly realize they aren't very good. Just like the OP, they think they're a 4.5 and then a guy with no form who simply bumps the ball back with no pace or spin stomps them. The only other 2 player types they're likely to encounter are high enough in level that they can justify being beaten by them in their minds, or low level players who rack up tons of UE's trying to play like they're much better than they are. People generally aren't going to compain about those other 2 types because they won't reveal you're true lack of skill/talent the way a pusher will.
rb__11
Rookie
you can all check my strokes: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=427790
Everybody enjoys tennis for different reasons. Some guys just like nice rhytmic solid stroking, preferably with the same partner 'cos they are used to each other's game. The problem is, if they ever decide to enter a local comp, they will face the real world. Dinkers, pushers, moonballers, junkballers etc...
That's when it gets difficult. People that have no experience or right plan how to play these guys will fail badly. You should practice your footwork and swing to be able to hit these high bouncing no pace shots. These guys are certainly not going to hit many winners. They usually win because you end up beating yourself and that can be very embarassing.
That's when it gets difficult. People that have no experience or right plan how to play these guys will fail badly. You should practice your footwork and swing to be able to hit these high bouncing no pace shots. These guys are certainly not going to hit many winners. They usually win because you end up beating yourself and that can be very embarassing.
Steady Eddy
Legend
At least when you play a moonballer, you get to hit some balls. When you play a one-shot-wonder that's even less fun. Every shot, he either aces you, or hits it into the back fence.
You spend all day picking up balls.
You spend all day picking up balls.
Vary it up and pick your spots. Disrupt his rhythm.
You have to play more conservatively, while still being aggressive when their is an opportunity.
Try and pick out his weaknesses, or be crafty. Lure him into the net and then lob him to annoy him. Get him out of that forehand/backhand routine where he's most comfortable. Chip and charge on his second serve and force him to attack. Throw in some S&V tactics yourself.
That being said, be prepared to hit more balls than you're used to and realise that you'll have to put balls away for winners/forced errors at some point, when the opportunity arises.
You can also work on your fitness and make it a war of stamina by moonballing as well.
You have to play more conservatively, while still being aggressive when their is an opportunity.
Try and pick out his weaknesses, or be crafty. Lure him into the net and then lob him to annoy him. Get him out of that forehand/backhand routine where he's most comfortable. Chip and charge on his second serve and force him to attack. Throw in some S&V tactics yourself.
That being said, be prepared to hit more balls than you're used to and realise that you'll have to put balls away for winners/forced errors at some point, when the opportunity arises.
You can also work on your fitness and make it a war of stamina by moonballing as well.
mightyrick
Legend
^^ This. Excellent advice.
A pusher is a master retriever of east<->west balls. You want to get the guy running north<->south. All of this shots are calibrated from the baseline. If you want to draw unforced errors or easy sitters from a pusher, you have to get him off of the baseline.
Shallow angles are awesome for this. Hit low/medium paced shots to the service line where it meets the sideline. Not only does it bring the pusher in and force them to hit a tough dink/lob, it opens up the court. At best, they will be stuck in no man's land.
3fees
G.O.A.T.
I agree with this post,,also-moonballers require a fairly high bounce and a deep shot to return high and deep,,keep the ball lower, and draw them into no mans land with shorter T-balls,,another way is to fight fire with fire-hit moonballs at them with heavy top and beat them at there own game.
Cheers
3fees
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