I have lost all respect for Kiefer *spoilers*

vkartikv said:
No offence here, but is there something inherently wrong with Germans? If anyone remembers, Becker played Medvedev in Wimbledon 94 or 95 and during one point raised his hand as if to say hold it, just to distract Medvedev and went on to win the point. The issue of unsporting conduct was raised.

I am a big Schumacher fan but everyone knows how he won his first title, pushing Damon Hill off the track and trying to repeat it in 1997.

Once again, no offence to (male) Germans but their attitude to sports need to change.
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hey, many things we enjoy now have been the work of german men through human history so I wouldn't say anything about them.

but as for Kiefer, extremely low what he did. I don't care he wins the tournament or what he does. that was just ugly and once he realized that what he did was wrong he should have given Grosjean the point. no excuse . I lost respect for him and his game now.
 
Grojean tried to plunk Kiefer with a volley a couple points later. Too bad he didn't dot him between the eyes. Kiefer played well, cheating and whining aside.
 
MasterTS said:
I respect Kiefer even more now! He is determined to win at all costs! Gamesmanship, tactics, antics, superstition, whatever! As long as it gets him that edge. This is survival EVERYONE! This is their money and carrers on the line. Kiefer has never been this far in a slam before and its about time! If you lose respect in Kiefer then might as well screw all the lawyers and politians!
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Not a personal attack on you, but if this is Kiefer's view on making money and carving out a career, then it's pretty myopic. He will tend to lose more in the long run in endorsements. Federer would make just as much, if not more, from endorsements as he is a Marketer's dream. Companies do not like their products/name to be associated with negativity no matter how much attention it may draw. Negative attention is just plain negative.
 
MasterTS said:
I respect Kiefer even more now! He is determined to win at all costs! Gamesmanship, tactics, antics, superstition, whatever! As long as it gets him that edge. This is survival EVERYONE! This is their money and carrers on the line. Kiefer has never been this far in a slam before and its about time! If you lose respect in Kiefer then might as well screw all the lawyers and politians!
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I do not respect Kiefer even more now, but I am certaintly not respecting him less...I agree that it is great to see a guy willing to do anything to win. This guy is a fighter, he is so serious when he is playing,want's to win every point,doesn't give a damn about what his opponents think of him, he's got the fire in the eyes...kinda creepy sometimes and I absolutly respect that.
 
Pic of the flying racquet ...

GROSJEAN_wideweb__470x3580.jpg
 
jonolau said:
Not a personal attack on you, but if this is Kiefer's view on making money and carving out a career, then it's pretty myopic. He will tend to lose more in the long run in endorsements. Federer would make just as much, if not more, from endorsements as he is a Marketer's dream. Companies do not like their products/name to be associated with negativity no matter how much attention it may draw. Negative attention is just plain negative.
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he's been around for so long he probably has enough money that he doesn't care about endorsements. he get's a pretty good chunk of change for reaching the semi's.
 
Transcript taken from a newspaper report about the match:

Kiefer said later that he was surprised he was awarded the point and that he had apologised to Grosjean, who, he said, was a friend, but he also said the incident should not overshadow his win.

"Of course everybody wants to win, it's so tight … yeah, these things are happening," Kiefer said. "I know it's not nice, I know it's not good. There's so much tension, so much is happening on the court, we fight for 4½ hours, it's so hot out there, your body is gone. These are things that are happening."

Grosjean denied Kiefer had apologised and disputed the German's claim that they were friends, saying: "Friend is a big word."
 
Docalex007 said:
Be aware, Kiefer was using his allowed 10 seconds cloak mode that he had saved up until then. SG had already used his in the 2nd.
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Ha ha, great observation! Really looks as if Grosjean was playing the Invisible Man!
 
jonolau said:
Transcript taken from a newspaper report about the match:


Grosjean denied Kiefer had apologised and disputed the German's claim that they were friends, saying: "Friend is a big word."
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Ooooh!!! BURNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!
 
Wilson wouldn't be proud their racquet is used as a frisbee. By the way, the umpire is a wimp. He's must be afraid of Kiefer's verbal tirade if he awarded the point to Grosjean. Federer will teach the brat a thing or two about respect in the semis.
 
bismark said:
Wilson wouldn't be proud their racquet is used as a frisbee. By the way, the umpire is a wimp. He's must be afraid of Kiefer's verbal tirade if he awarded the point to Grosjean. Federer will teach the brat a thing or two about respect in the semis.
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Yeah, but one thing good came out of that for Wilson - they've got great quality control at their factories because Kiefer picked it up and continued playing with it!
 
Marius_Hancu said:
great pic.
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Yes, it was amazing that the photographer managed to catch it at the right moment. Obvious from it that the racquet could have probably entered Grosjean's peripheral field of vision just as he was about to smash the ball.
 
Gonzalez_Forehand said:
Man, Kiefer's always been grimey. My first memory of him involved him screaming "You're a LIAR, you're a LIAR!" at an umpire for refusing to overrule a call (was at Wimbledon like, ages ago).
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Sounds like his antics go back a long way. The ump of his next match needs to be ready and willing to warn him and fine him early and as much as warranted.
 
If you lose respect in Kiefer then might as well screw all the lawyers and politians!
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Yes!!! Didn't Shakespeare write, "kill all the lawyers" in ... Julius Ceasar?

While I don't quite understand how lawyers and politicians play into this incident ... the concept of having FEWER of them certainly appeals to me.

(I hadn't clicked the pic from jonolau yet)
Docalex007 said:
Be aware, Kiefer was using his allowed 10 seconds cloak mode that he had saved up until then. SG had already used his in the 2nd.
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I didn't "get" this comment....

jonolau said:
Pic of the flying racquet ...
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... until I saw this. Then I cracked up! Good one, Docalex007!

That's actually a fascinating photo. I'm keeping it....

- KK
 
I think Keifer's getting a lot of undue slack. It's not like he threw the racquet at Gaston. What's the old saying, "No one who speaks German could possibly be evil" :)
 
Roforot said:
I think Keifer's getting a lot of undue slack. It's not like he threw the racquet at Gaston.
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That would have been quite a throw across the Pacific since Gaston Gaudio was probably back in Argentina. :mrgreen: LOL

(BTW, you mean Grosjean)
 
I posted this on the Kiefer defenders thread, and it encompasses my thoughts on this incident so I thought I'd copy it here;

This and other threads are focused on the wrong issue.
The issue, and the lack of sportsmanship is the lie. Kiefer obviously denied doing anthing wrong after he saw Grosjean's shot go into the net. Keifer immediatly turned towards the umpire and started gesturing like he did nothing wrong. Even wagging his finger saying I didn't do it. After his futile argument with the umpire and the referee Grosjean made the same gesture back to Kiefer as if to say you know what you did and you were wrong to do it.
Now any one who has watched tennis for any length of time has seen players throw their racquets in desparation while chasing down corner to corner shots on the baseline. They are on a rope and finally when they simply can't get to another shot the they chuck the racquet where the ball is going to land and everyone gets a chuckle out of it. It's a gesture of helplessness.
Anyone who says Kiefer threw his racquet <b>at</B> Grosjean was not watching or just seeing what they want to see. He was clearly tossing the racquet into the path of Grosjean's volley out of frustration. This typically doesn't happen with both players at the net.
Yes it was a distraction to Grosjean and the point should have been awarded to Grosjean. At the very least a let should have been played.
But Kiefer's denial the moment after was unbelievable. He should have given the point to Grosjean himself. Not at least owning up to what he did was (wait for it....)
Klassless. Klassless Kiefer that's what I will call him from now on.
He is in the "If you're not cheating, your not trying camp." That camp should be barred from competative sports on all levels.

I would add that someone further pointed out that Kiefer, apparently, incorrectly stated that he aplogized and that he and Grosjean were friends, which Grosjean has since denied.
So now he's got 3 exposed falsehoods under his belt. Wonder how long he can keep it up?
 
Well-written opinion piece from The Age, Melbourne's major newspaper:

A winner without respect

By Greg Baum
January 26, 2006

NICOLAS Kiefer is an ill-deserving semi-finalist at the Australian Open. He was ill-humoured, bad-mannered and foul-mouthed throughout yesterday's victory over Sebastien Grosjean, a performance that culminated in the unforgivable moment when he threw his racquet across the court while Grosjean was in the act of hitting a smash. The way he then feigned innocence only compounded the wretchedness.

Kiefer exposed much about himself, and more about the sport. Sometimes, tennis is so concerned with being a "nice" game that when faced with an atrocity, it blushes and looks the other way, hoping for it all to vanish before the next platitude.

Kiefer might never have thought to behave in such infantile manner if he had been docked points or even a game earlier in the match. There were enough opportunities, as he launched a series of tirades, swearing profusely, against the chair umpire about line calls that mostly were shown to be right.

Kiefer pleaded that the day was hot, the match long, tense and gruelling for high stakes, and that these were isolated moments. But it was also so for Grosjean, and he kept his cool and his dignity throughout. Kiefer claimed to have apologised to Grosjean, but the Frenchman disputed that. Kiefer also claimed that Grosjean was a friend. "Friend is a big word," said Grosjean. The hole Kiefer dug for himself grew deeper by the minute.

Even when Kiefer finally prevailed, he could summon up no grace and scarcely offered umpire Carlos Bernades even perfunctory acknowledgement.

In a grown man, this behaviour was contemptible. In a major sport, tolerance of it is pitiful. Cricket and Australian football have both cracked down latterly on the assailing of officials, and they are sports that demand much greater physical courage and in which a little venting of emotions might be allowed, but is not. Soccer and the rugby codes insist on absolute respect for officials and opponents.

Kiefer had been fined $6650 already in this tournament, for three different instances of obscenity. He had form, but not repentance. Fines do not work when levied against lavishly paid sportsfolk. Kiefer said winning justified all. Long may he lose.
 
Nice article, but I would not agree that this is " exposed much about himself, and more about the sport". It's exposed much of what is going on in sports and society. To single tennis out is to do a disservice to the sport.
 
dmastous said:
Nice article, but I would not agree that this is " exposed much about himself, and more about the sport". It's exposed much of what is going on in sports and society. To single tennis out is to do a disservice to the sport.
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Fair enough. "More about the sport" is a bit of journalistic drama.

They have to put in a rule about racquets going over the net.
 
Thanks for posting that article, Keifers. I agree with everything that writer said about Kiefer and "the incident".
 
BreakPoint said:
Thanks for posting that article, Keifers. I agree with everything that writer said about Kiefer and "the incident".
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You're welcome, BreakPoint.

Here's an excerpt from another article re the rule about racquets going over the net:

-Quote-

Grosjean protested bitterly to chair umpire Carlos Bernardes and grand slam supervisor Mike Morrissey, but the point stood.

“I didn't know you are allowed to throw your racket when you play,” Grosjean said. “I think I deserved a let and we replay the point, that's the minimum.”

An ITF spokesman said after speaking to Morrissey that the relevant rule stipulated a player would automatically lose a point if he or she threw their racket and it landed inside the singles court playing area.

If it landed outside the court it was up to the chair umpire to determine whether throwing the racket had been a hindrance to the other player.

The spokesman added that Morrissey had determined the incident had not hindered Grosjean, who went on to hold serve despite the controversial incident.

-End quote-

So there is a rule and the chair umpire failed to enforce it. They have to get more ballsy umpires to officiate Kiefer's matches. Having attended the AO last year, I have great respect for the organizers -- they put on a really great tournament, enjoyed by players and fans alike. This behavior of Kiefer's, they have to handle it.
 
Good find, Keifers.

Competition ... crisis ... stress. These things don't "make" character, so much as they reveal it.

- KK
 
You guys are too anal about this, so kiefer threw his racquet, who cares, those guys will do whatever it takes to win.
 
Kaptain Karl said:
Good find, Keifers.

Competition ... crisis ... stress. These things don't "make" character, so much as they reveal it.

- KK
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Thanks, Kaptain Karl. Yes, certainly in Klassless Kiefer's case, character is revealed in a very public way.

A few have developed character over time, e.g., Agassi. But I doubt Kiefer will.
 
Keifers said:
Thanks, Kaptain Karl. Yes, certainly in Klassless Kiefer's case, character is revealed in a very public way.

A few have developed character over time, e.g., Agassi. But I doubt Kiefer will.
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I agree. I didn't like Kiefer before, with all his antics designed to intimidate and disturb his opponents (did you see his match against JC Ferrero?), but now I can't stand him!!

And what's with all the stare-downs and the line touching before points? I think the guy is on the lunatic fringe.
 
Yeah, he's a head case alright. The officials need to send him a clear and unambiguous message -- he's not such a head case that he won't hear them. And if he explodes anyway, so much the better for the event and for tennis.

It's really bad that young people see him do that stuff and get away with it and hear people effectively say that what he did doesn't matter and what does matter is that he won.
 
Cricket requires more "physical courage" than tennis? What does that mean?

Anyway, this racquet incident didn't need to happen for people to see what kind of guy Kiefer is. He's a liar and a cheat. And he even admitted in the press conference to having a lot of anger bottled up inside.
 
Noelle said:
Yeah, I was trying to explain the incident without judging Kiefer's intentions as croatian sensation was just asking what happened. :)
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Thnx. Incredible..can't judge cause I didn't see it but since it seems to be a rather strange accident I will believe those who say he did it on purpose. Really bad sportmanship. He shouldn't get away with it.
 
If I was Grosjean I would have walked over to Kiefer's racquet (since it was on Grosjean's side of net) and smashed it to bits. Then wagged my finger like it was an accident.
 
Actually, I think this is getting blown out of proportion. Keifer did the exact same stunt last year in a match against Agassi. Both players were close to the net, and when Agassi went to return a shot Keifer tossed the racquet towards Agassi. The racquet never crossed the net, and later he claimed that it just slipped out of his hand. I think he knew he was going to lose the point and was just clowning around. I think he was doing the same in this match against Grosjean. I really don't think he meant for the racquet to go as far as it did. I also don't think the racquet really influenced the outcome of the point. Grosjean missed the shot, and that boosted his anger.

I do think Keifer was wrong in doing it, but I don't think he had any motives in it other than just clowning around during what he thought was the end of the point he was going to lose. I think it would have been more sportsman-like to offer to replay the point, but he felt that he was not responsible for the outcome. Was it wrong? Yes. Is it as bad as most of you are making it sound? No.

As far as his next match, I think it will be an interesting match against Federer. Federer isn't having all that easy of a time against his opponents this tournament. Even at other tournaments when he was dominating, for whatever reason, Keifer could usually get a set off of him. Now, with Fed struggling, he may be capable of more than just that one set.
 
Ash Doyle said:
Actually, I think this is getting blown out of proportion.
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I think he cheated. I don't believe we ARE "blowing it out of proportion."

I really don't think he meant for the racquet to go as far as it did.
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Irrelevant. He threw it. He should have been penalized the point.

I also don't think the racquet really influenced the outcome of the point.
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We disagree. As I previously posted, I believe it not only affected the POINT; but the whole MATCH. (I really believe Kiefer is such a "loose cannon" he'd have totally lost his mind when that point would have been (properly) awarded to Grosjean.)

Was it wrong? Yes. Is it as bad as most of you are making it sound? No.
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Yeah. We definitely disagree.

As far as his next match, I think it will be an interesting match against Federer. Federer isn't having all that easy of a time against his opponents this tournament. ... Now, with Fed struggling, he may be capable of more than just that one set.
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I pray Kiefer get's triple bageled. (I know he won't, but) if he were to *win* against Roger...? Wow! Then Kiefer would have stolen more than one match; he'd have made more of us doubt the integrity of the people running the ATP and the tournaments.

Players who take the "win at all costs" approach damage Sport, IMO.

- KK
 
Richie Rich said:
If I was Grosjean I would have walked over to Kiefer's racquet (since it was on Grosjean's side of net) and smashed it to bits. Then wagged my finger like it was an accident.
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Yeah, Grosjean cannot be penalised for racquet abuse because it's not HIS OWN racquet!
 
I read this stuff, and I agree that what Kiefer did was wrong. But then again Grosjean engaged in some questionable tactics at Roland Garros last year. Many players do them, and only a few sportsmen -- such as Rafter, Edberg and a few others -- avoid these things totally. And it's just because it's their personality.

These ATP guys are all competitors, or else they wouldn't be in this sport. But only a few are going to be eligible for and win the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship award -- and of course, Federer is one of them. As he also remains very cool in tense situations. But other players don't do it, and although they need to keep that in control, that's just the way they are. And of course, the issue is heightened when there is more on the line. I doubt Kiefer would have done this in the first round in Scottsdale -- but at the AO, it's different. Not to excuse it, but this is his BIG chance.

But when you consider the recent press regarding the sport -- about players who are doping and trying to avoid being caught, and this is a big problem within the sport, etc -- I think just dealing with the personalities and their frustrations on court is a breath of fresh air. Wouldn't it be nice if this is the only problem with the sport?

I hope that's all we have to deal with. And not with player suspensions for covert unfair tactics -- at least with Kiefer, his tactics were in your face. Those are much easier to deal with.

But thanks for all your comments. I'm looking forward to tonight's match.
 
Ash Doyle said:
Actually, I think this is getting blown out of proportion. Keifer did the exact same stunt last year in a match against Agassi. Both players were close to the net, and when Agassi went to return a shot Keifer tossed the racquet towards Agassi. The racquet never crossed the net, and later he claimed that it just slipped out of his hand. I think he knew he was going to lose the point and was just clowning around. I think he was doing the same in this match against Grosjean. I really don't think he meant for the racquet to go as far as it did. I also don't think the racquet really influenced the outcome of the point. Grosjean missed the shot, and that boosted his anger.

I do think Keifer was wrong in doing it, but I don't think he had any motives in it other than just clowning around during what he thought was the end of the point he was going to lose. I think it would have been more sportsman-like to offer to replay the point, but he felt that he was not responsible for the outcome. Was it wrong? Yes. Is it as bad as most of you are making it sound? No.

As far as his next match, I think it will be an interesting match against Federer. Federer isn't having all that easy of a time against his opponents this tournament. Even at other tournaments when he was dominating, for whatever reason, Keifer could usually get a set off of him. Now, with Fed struggling, he may be capable of more than just that one set.
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i agree 100%, and apparantly so did the umpire AND referee
 
Just for the record, Federer did not concede two points that were clearly in and he most likely knew they were in.....


...have we lost respect for Federer now? Stupid *****es here at TW.

We have linesmen and umps for a reason. Like I said in another thread....you take 'em how you get 'em.
 
jeebeesus said:
If they had the good sense to allow Hawkeye like in the Hopman cup we would not be having this discussion. CRAP!!!!!
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I know, I know. :) I was lucky enough to get some really good seats at the Hopman Cup this year. I watched Kiefer and Gaudio. I dont know why they dont use this know at Grand Slams and other tournaments? :confused:
 
Docalex007 said:
Just for the record, Federer did not concede two points that were clearly in and he most likely knew they were in.....


...have we lost respect for Federer now? Stupid *****es here at TW.

We have linesmen and umps for a reason. Like I said in another thread....you take 'em how you get 'em.
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LMFAO in disbelief. Ah, yeah....and how about the time when Federer threw his racquet across the court toward Kiefer when he was about to lose a point (and then waved his finger like a juvenile). Or when Federer acted like a jerk during most of the match........oh, wait a minute, that was that d-bag Kiefer the other night. My bad. Stupid ****es that support the idiot german.
 
How anyone that has seen Kiefer play and witnessed his on court behavior during the AO and his bush league "raquet throw" could think he has any class astounds me.
 
Docalex007 said:
Just for the record, Federer did not concede two points that were clearly in and he most likely knew they were in.....


...have we lost respect for Federer now? Stupid *****es here at TW.

We have linesmen and umps for a reason. Like I said in another thread....you take 'em how you get 'em.
Click to expand...

To compare Federer to Kiefer because he "didn't concede two points" is ridiculous! Federer is a classy champion and Kiefer is a classLESS wannabee.
 
Alley Cat said:
LMFAO in disbelief. Ah, yeah....and how about the time when Federer threw his racquet across the court toward Kiefer when he was about to lose a point (and then waved his finger like a juvenile). Or when Federer acted like a jerk during most of the match........oh, wait a minute, that was that d-bag Kiefer the other night. My bad. Stupid ****es that support the idiot german.
Click to expand...

So Kiefer waved his finger and did everything he could to avoid the ump changing his mind after the call was made in his favor. So what?

When was the last time you saw an NFL team admit to a penalty? If an offensive linesman was holding during a TD run....will he go up to the ref and tell him the TD should not stand because he "broke a rule"?

When was the last time an NBA player in the last seconds of a game fouled somebody and it wasen't called....then went up to the ref and said...."uhhh, i really did foul him, we should put 4 seconds back on the clock and put him on the line for 2 to see if he can win the game for his team. Huh?

Tennis is tennis, I know. But umps and refs sometimes change the outcome of games and matches. This is in all sports. Have you ever seen a better team/player lose because of a wrong call? I have.

It was up to the ump do make the decision....even Kiefer said he was "shocked" that the ump didn't change his ruling.

Unfair calls are part of every sport that requires official refs and umps. Oh, and last time I checked....the NFL, NBA, MLS, and MLB all have times where players "lie" or "act" during a game to get a favorable call. Like an NBA player "faking" he was fouled or a defensive player "acting" like he was charged but really just fell on the floor himself......damn, now that's cheap. What Kiefer did is a part of sports and will always be. What he does many others in sports do. In his interviews....he has respect for his collegues. He's a hothead....but I know many athlete hotheads.
 
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