This kid has gotten better and I didn't use double reverse psychology. Instead, I have allowed him to be a bit eccentric which he does for getting attention and a way of exerting power. Since I am doing a semi private lesson I just ignore him and praise the other kid who is really trying. It appears to me that he does things wrong to get me to correct me or to make a mockery of what he is doing. I ignore him and say things like, "keep working at it and eventually you will be able to do it." I then refocus on the other child. I know the other kid can do the drill, but chooses instead to seek attention. I don't give it too him and my little remarks he is not sure but what I am sincere in my comments. He doesn't like it when it seems like I am not noticing he is goofing off on purpose. This seems to be working.
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I have this kid
- Thread starter Clay Mize
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This kid has gotten better and I didn't use double reverse psychology. Instead, I have allowed him to be a bit eccentric which he does for getting attention and a way of exerting power. Since I am doing a semi private lesson I just ignore him and praise the other kid who is really trying. It appears to me that he does things wrong to get me to correct me or to make a mockery of what he is doing. I ignore him and say things like, "keep working at it and eventually you will be able to do it." I then refocus on the other child. I know the other kid can do the drill, but chooses instead to seek attention. I don't give it too him and my little remarks he is not sure but what I am sincere in my comments. He doesn't like it when it seems like I am not noticing he is goofing off on purpose. This seems to be working.
wow, really, from that one sentence, you came up with all this? to me, the kid sounds like a typical ten year old boy playing it cool in front of a girl. there may be deeper issues, but op hasn't said anything to suggest this. so if the op is a professional coach who can't figure this out on his/her own and has to go to an anonymous tennis forum full of trolls and hacks, then maybe coaching kids isn't for him/her?
Thanks for the encouragement. You can add critic to your list of trolls and hacks.
Jack Nicklaus' father forced him to learn golf. He hated it so much that he would cry.
He got better....
That is the dumbest video ever, but it made me laugh.
Look at my post again. I started it out with, "I may be wrong about this but...". That is, I'm am suggesting this as a possibility. You may want to blow this off as a "typical" boy (and you might very wll be right) but I am sticking with my assessment as a distinct possibility. It is something that jumped out at me when I read the OP. I have a nephew with severe ADHD. I've also had a number of students who have also exhibited ADD/ADHD -- not as severe as my nephew, but substantial enough to present a challenge (not to be ignored).
Even if this 10 yr old boy does not have ADHD, some approaches used for teaching ADHD kids could still be useful.
Don't know how much coaching or teaching you've done, but there will always be challenges. Coaches will often consult teachers or other coaches for ideas regarding some of these challenges. Doesn't make them unfit to be coaches. It's a constant learning experience. Seems to me that @Clay Mize cares enough about his coaching and his students to seek some advice. Sure, he'll get some troll advice here but there are also a number of other coaches around here that might have some useful insight.
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Thank you for your level headed thoughts.
[QUOTE="SystemicAnomaly, post: 13268326, member: 9279"Don't know how much coaching or teaching you've done, but there will always be challenges. Coaches will often consult teachers or other coaches for ideas regarding some of these challenges. Doesn't make them unfit to be coaches. It's a constant learning experience. Seems to me that @Clay Mize cares enough about his coaching and his students to seek some advice. Sure, he'll get some troll advice here but there are also a number of other coaches around here that might have some useful insight.
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i may be wrong, but shouldn't the first step of a coach be to speak with the parents rather than to post on a tennis forum? shouldn't they be able to tell the coach about their son's issues (i think that the op was recommended to do this in another thread about another kid with behavior "issues")? why should we be left speculating based not on video or actual examples of misbehavior but on general type casting and vague summaries?[/QUOTE]
I am thinking you are not an educator. The first step is not to go to the parents IMO.
OP might be just looking for tips on how to reach a kid who he sees has potential (he mentioned this in his first post) but doesn't seem to be serious about tennis. Parents are probably not the best people to give advice about that.
I do agree that there is no need to make any psychological evaluations over the internet based on a brief para description ofa kid who might have no other issues than just being a kid.
There have been many useful takeaways for me from this post. I have taught many kids. I reject the idea that this kid is just being a kid. Most of the hundreds of kids I teach or have taught do not act this way. I am looking for insight and have received some here.
I'm a parent that hires coaches for private lessons in swim and tennis.
For a 10y/o just starting out, I typically tell other parents not to do it. Or to try to get with a couple of their friends and do a semi-private.
If they don't love the sport yet, one of the ways to turn them off is to push too hard. I don't know any 10y/o that likes to spend an hour with an adult telling them what they are doing wrong. They only want to hear what they are doing well.
Once they have the fundamentals or they have a clear goal in mind (want to get on the school team, want to play at the same level as their friends), they are more receptive to private coaching.
My daughter doesn't like private coaching and for that matter, neither did my son at that age. But my son realizes it is for his benefit now that he is 16 and trying to take his game to the next level or trying to make some adjustments with a technique he is struggling with.
But you as a coach needs to learn HOW to make lessons interesting for all levels. Or you have to tell the parents that you are unable to or don't have the ability to work with a beginner with no interest.
I can appreciate that advice. I don't take the approach of spending an hour telling them what they are doing wrong. I show them, encourage them and keep things moving pretty fast with lots of variety. This kid is not responding for reason I don't understand and are out of the norm.
You might try finding a way to connect to the kid's imagination. That requires describing the very different places tennis can take him, and trying to discern which one actually connected. This can't be done in the presence of the girl or the parents. There is certainly, and in reality, a large range of futures. Tennis actually provides a good way to find a team when in middle/high-school. It is also a social skill: If he has game on vacation it is a very good way to meet other kids, or at his parents' club he'll fit in, find friends. Did I mention girls? That's a long shot for a ten-year old, but you never know. Does he imagine a future in business, finance, or law, perhaps knows some adult he admires that happens to be in that sort of line? Having game will definitely help him meet up with people who can help his career. I've seen this reality many times. Perhaps he has some other imagining of his future, or other interest. Ten-year-olds who watch TV/movies aren't as simple as they seem. Whether he admires actors, bank leaders, or some other group, I guarantee a quick google search while provide you with names to throw at him. Jamie Dimon worked for my kid. So did Harrison Ford when his films were big.
I went through the "parent learns much more about tennis in order to teach/coach/hit with his son. It worked out very well. I did buy him very good coaching, though, sporadically, and OK coaching regularly. I'll be honest and say that listening to them teach him also taught me. The best coaches have an approach that is just powerful. I'd mention Joe Brandi in that regard. My kid, as it turns out, became "instantly" a very good lacrosse player at age 8 and onward Why? My view: At his school the faculty and the girls came to every home game. That worked wonders. But he never stopped playing tennis. (I regularly told him "you don't have to make it your #1 sport, but if you keep it up, when you're an adult, perhaps in a different city/region, you'll find an easy path to making friends and even getting career help. Well, it wasn't a year ago that, while on the phone, he reminded me of that and admitted it had proven true. We're East Coast. He got a job in Pasadena. Finding very good players and making friends was simple. It even paid off with a better job in marketing. Who knew? Laugh.
What an excellent post. I have used to this idea, but not to this extent. I usually talk about making their high school team and playing in tournaments and people coming to see them play. I sometimes talk about the admiration they will receive if they are known to have a good tennis game. You have taken this to a whole new level and I will definitely use this. Thanks.
i am glad to hear that the articles helped you, but no one else sees the irony?
I am going to guess that you are not married.
10% of people are self-starters. 10% can’t be motivated by anything. Being a good teacher is knowing how to reach and motivate that middle 80%. Since every student is different, what works for one may not work for another. You have to try different approaches and observe the responses. You do have the advantage of working with your tougher student in a small group setting.
Some suggestions of things for teaching an 80%er at this age:
1) stay upbeat and positive.
2) focus on fun instead of learning at first.
3) build relationships, earn trust, show you them you care, then you can teach.
4) passion for a sport or subject is caught, not taught. Show how much you love tennis, bring in another high level adult and rally for a few minutes to show how much fun tennis can be, talk about the basics that allow you to be consistent (watch my eyes, now watch my feet, now my body, backswing, follow through, etc....).
5) make every activity a game or challenge (let’s count how many balls in a row you can hit over the net, into this service box, etc....)
6) let them pick the next activity (would you rather do our serving game or play mini-tennis?)
7) always praise good results, then you can correct technique (good shot!, remember to turn your body sideways to the net and you can do even better next time), never be negative.
8) plan a large number and variety of activities and move on as soon as you sense boredom setting in.
10) have a lot of games/activities that work on each skill set so that you can keep it fresh, (set routines are for 10%ers).
11) take frequent water breaks.
12) bring a special treat (snack) and take your snack break when you sense their energy waning.
13) be willing to occasionally stretch breaks, go back when they’re ready to get back to work.
14) don’t be afraid to be yourself, laugh, joke, etc.... Only the self-starters want to be taught by a robot.
The approach I’m describing is designed to reach the 80%. If you have a top 10%er, you want to skip most of this and go straight to conditioning, skills, and drills. Don’t combine top 10%ers and 80%ers in the same group if at all possible. You will only frustrate one or the other. I’m mentioning this in case your female student is a 10%er and really just wants to work and get better.
To be brutally honest, playing tennis and teaching tennis are two different things. People go to school for years to study how to teach and yet few do it well. Anyone can teach the easy kids. If you really want to teach, then figure out how to reach the others. If not, just send the tougher kids to someone with the training, experience, and passion for teaching. There is no shame in that.
There are some good thoughts here. Your summation is not so simple though. I would love to pass the difficult kids along to someone else, but where are they. I would like to coach just the top 20%, but that is not reality. I try to instill that everyone can improve if they keep working at their game. Sometimes it does frustrate both the top 20 and the bottom 20%, but that's life.
There have been many useful takeaways for me from this post. I have taught many kids. I reject the idea that this kid is just being a kid. Most of the hundreds of kids I teach or have taught do not act this way. I am looking for insight and have received some here.
With all due respect, unless you are trained, you are not a psychologist. Even if you go with your emipirical evidence of the kids you've worked with, it is but a drop in the ocean. Kids are different. I'm not saying that you are definitely wrong with your assessment. All I'm saying is neither of us know for sure, and I could be correct with my assessment that it is a kid behaving like a kid. In any case folks on the internet giving psych evaluations of a kid they've never met, is definitely not some useful takeaway I'd be running off with when trying to impact the life of a child.
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Not being clinical. I'm just saying it's silly to dismiss the idea of a kid being a kid just because you've worked with many other kids who didn't exhibit this type of behavior. I coached kids for about 7 years in hoops..year round. I've dealt with numerous kids too over the years and know that each one is different.First off, no one need be a psychologist to deal with other humans. That is a screwed up way to think. No one here is doing a psyche evaluation here. Just seeking others who have seen this behavior in children before and have some common sense. Don't make things so clinical.
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