I hope Sascha doesn't end like Coria

Will Sascha end like Coria?

  • Yes, the final will destroy his career like Guille

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • No, but he'll have problems with his serve from now on

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • Not at all, Sascha will become a multiple GS champion

    Votes: 16 53.3%

  • Total voters
    30

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
Despite wanting Thiem to win the US Open title. I was thinking a few hours after the match what would happen from now on to Alexander Zverev, and then came to my mind what happened to the last player to lose a Grand Slam final after leading 2-0 in sets and also had his fair share of opportunities in the 5th, Guillermo Coria, in Roland Garros 2004.

I also noted another big similarity, and that's both developed service yips, which basically destroyed Coria's career when he was just 24. Sascha seems to be developing some kind of second serve yips which were clearly noted in the final set. However, Alexander's 1st serve when on song is terribly difficult to return, this being a personal experience from the Federer-Zverev exho last year in Santiago, Chile.

We don't know how much weight does Sascha carries on his shoulders for always being called the next big thing who actually delivered some kind of good results, but never seemed to deliver in the majors. This year, he reached his first SF in Australia and his first F at the US Open, and he finally looked ready to shut up all the critics and trolls who insulted since forever in those first 2 sets of the final. I'd be lying if I told ya'll that I almost cried when Sascha cried at the ceremony.

Come on, Sascha, give us sooner another of your smiles. You may have lost the final, but you truly earned a fan on Sunday.
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
Sascha's slam learning curve:
Lose early and disappoint- start being more consistent and make QF- Make SFs and play a decent match- Reach Final and be in winning position.
He's 23. He's got a decade to go.
Yeah, he looks that he's maturing pretty steadily, but so was Coria in the 2004 clay season. However, now all players seem to mature later than in Federer's era.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Come on, Sascha, give us sooner another of your smiles. You may have lost the final, but you truly earned a fan on Sunday.
I'm curious why anyone would become a fan of a player who choked a major final in that spectacular of a fashion? I was a massive fan of Lendl and Agassi, both of whom choked endless slam matches. But I loved them before it was known they were going to be chokers.
 

ND-13

Semi-Pro
Zverev's Rome and Madrid master titles and WTF titles were impressive. But he had no business winning USO after his display against Busta and Coric. He played well in the first 2 sets of the final but a large part of that was Thiem being nervous and playing so badly.

Zverev winning USO would have been a big disaster.
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
I'm curious why anyone would become a fan of a player who choked a major final in that spectacular of a fashion? I was a massive fan of Lendl and Agassi, both of whom choked endless slam matches. But I loved them before it was known they were going to be chokers.
Hello again, BeatlesFan. 15 months away from this legendary site seemed too much.
I was some kind of "Zebrev fan", a wet Sascha fan, but I understood that the guy has several weights on his back that I truly embraced after watching the first two sets of the final, somehow like... He's finally shutting down all the critics. This comes from someone that openly supported Thiem in the final.

This is not about the "choking in a major final in that spectacular of a fashion", but more like Murray Wimbledon 2012 moment, a kind of break down that you don't want to see from a nice guy, the moment you want to hug them and tell them that they'll win Grand Slams in the future, I became a Muzziah fan after that final if you wanna know.
 

McGradey

Rookie
Zverev is 6’6”
If he can’t figure out a way to hit the ball over the net on a reliable basis, it would be much worse than the case of Coria, who is by comparison, a midget

I think unlike Coria, Z definitely will figure it out though.
 

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
...and then came to my mind what happened to the last player to lose a Grand Slam final after leading 2-0 in sets and also had his fair share of opportunities in the 5th, Guillermo Coria, in Roland Garros 2004.

LOL, no comparison. No one had ever heard of Gaudio. Coria was such the huge favorite that his name was etched on the trophy before the match.
 
I'm curious why anyone would become a fan of a player who choked a major final in that spectacular of a fashion? I was a massive fan of Lendl and Agassi, both of whom choked endless slam matches. But I loved them before it was known they were going to be chokers.
You're not making sense, as both Lendl and Agassi were significant chokers in slams early on.
 

Winners or Errors

Hall of Fame
Zverev made it to the US Open final with literally no second serve. That means the guy has a lot going for him. All he needs to do is learn how to hit a second serve. I think he can get there. I mean, look at how badly Djoker's serve was screwed up in 2010 (I think that was when, right?). He just has a hitch in that stroke. If he fixes it, he's a major winner. Maybe more than one, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. ;-)
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
I don’t really see the parallel here. Coria’s service yips started with his shoulder injury, not his loss to Gaudio. And it was purely psychological, whereas Zverev’s problem is technical.

Zverev has a really high toss and a complicated preparation, which gives him incredible first serve power but a real lack of consistency on his second serve.

Fixing his second serve is really hard to do without screwing up his first serve. Any coach that can do it is a genius, and will be able to take a lot of credit for multiple slam wins.
 

FRV3

Professional
I don’t really see the parallel here. Coria’s service yips started with his shoulder injury, not his loss to Gaudio. And it was purely psychological, whereas Zverev’s problem is technical.

Zverev has a really high toss and a complicated preparation, which gives him incredible first serve power but a real lack of consistency on his second serve.

Fixing his second serve is really hard to do without screwing up his first serve. Any coach that can do it is a genius, and will be able to take a lot of credit for multiple slam wins.
I see you've seen that Salzenstein vid
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Despite wanting Thiem to win the US Open title. I was thinking a few hours after the match what would happen from now on to Alexander Zverev, and then came to my mind what happened to the last player to lose a Grand Slam final after leading 2-0 in sets and also had his fair share of opportunities in the 5th, Guillermo Coria, in Roland Garros 2004.

I also noted another big similarity, and that's both developed service yips, which basically destroyed Coria's career when he was just 24. Sascha seems to be developing some kind of second serve yips which were clearly noted in the final set. However, Alexander's 1st serve when on song is terribly difficult to return, this being a personal experience from the Federer-Zverev exho last year in Santiago, Chile.

We don't know how much weight does Sascha carries on his shoulders for always being called the next big thing who actually delivered some kind of good results, but never seemed to deliver in the majors. This year, he reached his first SF in Australia and his first F at the US Open, and he finally looked ready to shut up all the critics and trolls who insulted since forever in those first 2 sets of the final. I'd be lying if I told ya'll that I almost cried when Sascha cried at the ceremony.

Come on, Sascha, give us sooner another of your smiles. You may have lost the final, but you truly earned a fan on Sunday.
@Red Rick a new treatise for the ABZ shock troupes. Write a song like this and its all but done.;)
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Yeah, he looks that he's maturing pretty steadily, but so was Coria in the 2004 clay season. However, now all players seem to mature later than in Federer's era.
So Coria to your mind hadn’t peaked in 2004, But was rather dragged down by the yips and injury issues related to the serve?
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
@Red Rick a new treatise for the ABZ shock troupes. Write a song like this and its all but done.;)
That was a such a numblingly cool song, and I was hearing some girly K-On songs after that one.:-D
So Coria to your mind hadn’t peaked in 2004, But was rather dragged down by the yips and injury issues related to the serve?
I guess yes, I was just 8-9 in 2004 and I have blurry memories, Coria wasn't the prohibite favourite in that Roland Garros, but still a big fav. I still think that Roger was better than Guillermo in clay, you should watch the Hamburg 2004 F, and you'll know that Coria wasn't ready to take the clay. But then came Nadal and his yips...
 

Topspin 365

New User
I think Sascha is damaged goods after that match. Totally kidding. He may have some early losses in the next few months, but he’ll get back to form. But I do question why he hired Ferrer when Becker was pretty much applying for the job last year?
 

Kalin

Legend
Rather than losing after winning the first 2 sets, what if Zverev had lost in straight sets (as many predicted)? Would people be less critical of him?
Excellent point; I thought the same immediately after the final. Somewhat perversely, it is quite obvious that both Sascha and Dominic would have been much better off with a straight-sets win by Thiem. Nobody would have begrudged Sascha for losing in 3 to a guy who was the heavy favourite, on a roll and had a winning record against him.

I think Sascha is damaged goods after that match. Totally kidding. He may have some early losses in the next few months, but he’ll get back to form. But I do question why he hired Ferrer when Becker was pretty much applying for the job last year?
Strange decision indeed. Boris did wonders for Novak's serve, OH and net game and these are the exact same things Zverev needs to work on and if he does he'll be pretty much unbeatable. Ferrer was a great player and seems like a good guy but what exaclty is he going to teach Sascha, how to play endless baseline rallies like a true Spaniard?
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
That was a such a numblingly cool song, and I was hearing some girly K-On songs after that one.:-D

I guess yes, I was just 8-9 in 2004 and I have blurry memories, Coria wasn't the prohibite favourite in that Roland Garros, but still a big fav. I still think that Roger was better than Guillermo in clay, you should watch the Hamburg 2004 F, and you'll know that Coria wasn't ready to take the clay. But then came Nadal and his yips...
An intiguing player and sadly I was not watching a ton of tennis then. You see Thiem peaking at age 27 and really the equipment was pretty similar for Coria so you just wonder the heights he might have reached without the injury/yips. Fascinated to hear your take on Polyester strings on clay court tennis and elsewhere. So many top players had injury issues and fell away then and its almost like they became top players without Polyester and then loved the string, but the much more physical nature of the game just took its toll on many of these players who developed their strokes with different strings. Clay was already pretty greuling so its surprising to see so many fall away (even Massu) during this period. Lots of top players of the time had injury issues. I'm sure also the boost for hard court players from Poly suddenly made them much more of a force on clay.

You see very few traditional claycourt players at the top of the game now. In top 50 its maybe Thiem, Nadal, Garin, & Ruud. So few top players from North and South America since that time (Nalbandian hung on and then Delpo), its almost like the prevailing tennis instruction didn't adapt. US still trying to produce Agassi type players (see JJ Wolf lol) and South America perhaps traditional dirtballers. Never knew Rios well either.

Very curious your thoughts and experience especially with strings, etc. You must have known quite a few of the top players in the region. This place crazy for Nalbandian as he was an early Federer rival and character. Another player I don't know well.
 

Gazelle

Legend
I don’t really see the parallel here. Coria’s service yips started with his shoulder injury, not his loss to Gaudio. And it was purely psychological, whereas Zverev’s problem is technical.

Zverev has a really high toss and a complicated preparation, which gives him incredible first serve power but a real lack of consistency on his second serve.

Fixing his second serve is really hard to do without screwing up his first serve. Any coach that can do it is a genius, and will be able to take a lot of credit for multiple slam wins.
He needs Ivanisevic as a coach. That guy immediately improves the serve of every guy he coaches.
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
An intiguing player and sadly I was not watching a ton of tennis then. You see Thiem peaking at age 27 and really the equipment was pretty similar for Coria so you just wonder the heights he might have reached without the injury/yips. Fascinated to hear your take on Polyester strings on clay court tennis and elsewhere. So many top players had injury issues and fell away then and its almost like they became top players without Polyester and then loved the string, but the much more physical nature of the game just took its toll on many of these players who developed their strokes with different strings. Clay was already pretty greuling so its surprising to see so many fall away (even Massu) during this period. Lots of top players of the time had injury issues. I'm sure also the boost for hard court players from Poly suddenly made them much more of a force on clay.

You see very few traditional claycourt players at the top of the game now. In top 50 its maybe Thiem, Nadal, Garin, & Ruud. So few top players from North and South America since that time (Nalbandian hung on and then Delpo), its almost like the prevailing tennis instruction didn't adapt. US still trying to produce Agassi type players (see JJ Wolf lol) and South America perhaps traditional dirtballers. Never knew Rios well either.

Very curious your thoughts and experience especially with strings, etc. You must have known quite a few of the top players in the region. This place crazy for Nalbandian as he was an early Federer rival and character. Another player I don't know well.
I guess I never feel a difference between the poly and the non poly, since by 2005-2007, we already considered poly strings the default setting. Here clay courts are the norm, so we learn to hit with topspin since our earlier formative years, I particulary disliked that and I still prefer flatter shots, maybe it's because I couldn't never develop a modern forehand, so I mostly focused on my serve and my BH, even I learned to slide normally on clay, but no, no decent FH for me.

I think it's Guga's influence in South America and later the Argentine legion with Nalbandian, Zabaleta, Gaudio, Coria, Acasuso. After football, tennis is the most followed sport in Chile, thanks to Ríos, González and Massú, and we all tried to play more like Feña and fight like Nico, we all considered Marcelo someone to admire, but not to imitate. Latin America still produces too many clay courters, and even the more complete players like Delpo and David, had their formative years on clay. I really don't know why most South Americans retire early or keep getting injured, I may assume that is the problem of something exerting way too much your body to get results.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I'm curious why anyone would become a fan of a player who choked a major final in that spectacular of a fashion? I was a massive fan of Lendl and Agassi, both of whom choked endless slam matches. But I loved them before it was known they were going to be chokers.
He tightened up at all the crucial points but he never gave up fighting. They don't call him Street for nothing :D
He knows how to fight in the big matches, but not how to win. Which is pretty much the story of his career.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
I guess I never feel a difference between the poly and the non poly, since by 2005-2007, we already considered poly strings the default setting. Here clay courts are the norm, so we learn to hit with topspin since our earlier formative years, I particulary disliked that and I still prefer flatter shots, maybe it's because I couldn't never develop a modern forehand, so I mostly focused on my serve and my BH, even I learned to slide normally on clay, but no, no decent FH for me.

I think it's Guga's influence in South America and later the Argentine legion with Nalbandian, Zabaleta, Gaudio, Coria, Acasuso. After football, tennis is the most followed sport in Chile, thanks to Ríos, González and Massú, and we all tried to play more like Feña and fight like Nico, we all considered Marcelo someone to admire, but not to imitate. Latin America still produces too many clay courters, and even the more complete players like Delpo and David, had their formative years on clay. I really don't know why most South Americans retire early or keep getting injured, I may assume that is the problem of something exerting way too much your body to get results.
I must say the South American clay court swing has a very different feel to it. I relish when players like Monfils, Cilic, Nishikori or recently Couric attempt to venture down from Europe to play. they usually end up getting chewed up and spit out. Spainards have less of a problem And true clay quarters have done fairly well, and true claycourt or is that done fairly well! Ruud, Thiem flourished. Italians are more of a mixed bag. The one great surprise was FAA Who even skipped grass court season the year before to play clay. his South American trip really got him moving up the rankings. just love the more orange clay in Buenos Aires. still I can see where spending your entire development on that surface could be very rough. hopefully the young Italians will venture down there soon. it's one of my favorite parts of the season.

here in the USA I think the Hardcourts have stagnated development and we just seem to generate a lot of players with jumped up topspin forehands that don't hold up at the higher echelon's of the pro level. Italian tennis is very very good right now and I think it's because it has become so popular there. over 10 years ago the Italian tennis Federation started broadcasting all the tennis for free or at least 500s and below. now the rome tournament is booming and tennis is booming there.

Fascinated by King Coria but I can tell you he gets crickets here. for some reason I never made the obvious connection to Zverev, perhaps it's their totally different heights.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
He tightened up at all the crucial points but he never gave up fighting. They don't call him Street for nothing :D
He knows how to fight in the big matches, but not how to win. Which is pretty much the story of his career.
when Zverev is playing particularly well at the end of the tournament he generally wins. He was not playing well at the end of this U.S. Open coming into the final, but still made an impressive showing.;) oh lately it seems like he's never really been on a roll but his game is coming along enough for him to stumble into some finals.
 
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