I know most of you don't approve of this...

[Mike2228]

Today at my teams pratice I, neither a coach or captain, was partnered in doubles with a guy I'll call P. P has great instincts at the net but is otherwise no good.

I'm not a super star myself, just a decent 3.5,(i've only been playing for a couple months now.) but P was really getting under my skin. He has apparently no ability to make adjustments or self-assess himself. In the first set I believe he hit maybe 2 balls in play, everything else was either at the back fence or some horribly screwed up shot that ended 50 feet in the air and 4 courts over. He swings as hard as he could at everything he could reach, and his swing is by no means pretty or effective. After having bit my toungue and holding my peace for about a set and a half i finally just told him to settle/ slow down and ease the ball into play rather than going nuts and giving away points on crazy hits 95% of the time the ball is hit at him.

I've seen a couple topics here in my short time here as a poster/reader where people complained about not wishing to recieve or hear advice from a contemporary, but the advice actually seemed to have had a positive impact on his play from that point on.

Was i out of line to have spoken up, or was I wrong to have said anything even though the advice helped?

 

[HunterST]

haha a solid 3.5 in two months, huh?

 

[1stVolley]

I think everything depends on how the advice is given. If it is done discretely and not as a lecture but as a suggestion, most folks (in my experience) would take it ok. Of course, if you don't know the other fellow at all, there is always some danger that he or she will get bent out of shape. Such is life. :neutral:

 

[Mike2228]

haha a solid 3.5 in two months, huh?

We'll the computer has me listed at as a 3.0 but so is every other player on my team. ( begginers/intermedite league) I regularly beat all of them, except one who owns me. (that said he also owns everyone else) Thats basically how I figure I'm a average 3.5. Also I have an athletic background in baseball and badmitton (fyi, im only 21, so i have young legs and good health on myside) so all it took for me to get better was time spent hitting the ball and i play every evening weather permitting playing for 2-4 hours.

I'd say im something of a machine baseliner as I have no one true weapon but steady consistency. My serve is perhaps also a little better than average for my level. That said I occasionally devieate from that and serve and volley.

 

[bodieq]

haha a solid 3.5 in two months, huh?

Yea, I know. I bet "P" is probably starting his own thread about how a 3.0 player who's only been playing tennis a few months was trying to give him advice on strategy.

 

[tennis tom]

I'd say it's safe to say you're 3.5 by your description. At that level athleticism will take you far. I think technique doesn't start rearing it's ugly head until you get to 4.5. At 4.0 it's all about the muscle, the wine cellar, (or the pot) and insider-trading.

As to your "partner", all's well that ends well. But, run like hell whenever you see him coming your way.

I've learned from experience, even when tennis players ask for your opinion, they DON'T rally want to hear it.

The only time the majority of those who hit a tennis ball will listen to anyone is if they are throwing hundred dollar bills at them and they are called a tennis pro or say they are one.

I think you got lucky this time, don't press your luck.

 

[MissSilvestris]

If P was really as shi**y as the OP says then I don't think he has any room to get affronted. I admit I'm not the more awe-inspiring player in doubles, but at least me and my partner can play some rallies. If I was partnered with a meathead that sent everything into the fence, I'd be inclined to say something as well.

Just my two cents.

 

[Steady Eddy]

haha a solid 3.5 in two months, huh?

I was wondering that too. It took me way longer than two months to become a 3.5. I'm not sure how long it took, but after two months of playing nearly everyday, I was 2.5/3.0

I'd say it's safe to say you're 3.5 by your description. At that level athleticism will take you far. I think technique doesn't start rearing it's ugly head until you get to 4.5. At 4.0 it's all about the muscle, the wine cellar, (or the pot) and insider-trading.

As to your "partner", all's well that ends well. But, run like hell whenever you see him coming your way.

I've learned from experience, even when tennis players ask for your opinion, they DON'T really want to hear it.

The only time the majority of those who hit a tennis ball will listen to anyone is if they are throwing hundred dollar bills at them and they are called a tennis pro or say they are one.

I think you got lucky this time, don't press your luck.

True. Even when giving advice does no harm, it almost never seems to accomplish much good. But if you want to try, I think it's ok.

 

[chollyred]

If P was really as shi**y as the OP says then I don't think he has any room to get affronted. I admit I'm not the more awe-inspiring player in doubles, but at least me and my partner can play some rallies. If I was partnered with a meathead that sent everything into the fence, I'd be inclined to say something as well.

Just my two cents.

Had a partner just like that at practice Tuesday night. He was over swinging at everything, especially service returns. I just advised him to shorten his swing a little just to get the ball in play. He didn't seem affronted <shrug>, and did what I asked. We went from losing 3 games straight to winning 3 straight.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[BMC9670]

I think you handled it well. I see a lot of beginning players that run like mad and swing with all their might at everything. They may not even be aware of it. Sounds like you were able to bring some control into the match without offending him or making matters worse.

 

[Mike2228]

Yea, I know. I bet "P" is probably starting his own thread about how a 3.0 player who's only been playing tennis a few months was trying to give him advice on strategy.

I don't really think hes been playing much longer than I have.

 

[r2473]

Today at my teams pratice

"We're talkin' about practice.....er I mean pratice"

Playing tennis for two months and already b*tching about how everyone else sucks and offering advice........ya, I'd say you'll fit in great.........especially around here.

Next week you'll graduate to telling us how all your balls where in, but your opponents are screwing you on line calls.

Soon you'll be able to tell us how you are about a 5.0 player......except those pesky pushers still beat you 0&0.

 

[tennis tom]

Today at my teams pratice I, neither a coach or captain, was partnered in doubles with a guy I'll call P. P has great instincts at the net but is otherwise no good.

I'm not a super star myself, just a decent 3.5,(i've only been playing for a couple months now.) but P was really getting under my skin. He has apparently no ability to make adjustments or self-assess himself. In the first set I believe he hit maybe 2 balls in play, everything else was either at the back fence or some horribly screwed up shot that ended 50 feet in the air and 4 courts over. He swings as hard as he could at everything he could reach, and his swing is by no means pretty or effective. After having bit my toungue and holding my peace for about a set and a half i finally just told him to settle/ slow down and ease the ball into play rather than going nuts and giving away points on crazy hits 95% of the time the ball is hit at him.

I've seen a couple topics here in my short time here as a poster/reader where people complained about not wishing to recieve or hear advice from a contemporary, but the advice actually seemed to have had a positive impact on his play from that point on.

Was i out of line to have spoken up, or was I wrong to have said anything even though the advice helped?

Nah, I'm buying it, he's legit. He wrote an intelligently worded post and asked sincerely. Cut him some slack, he's not boasting, just asking.

Don't worry about this computer rating BS, no one on the planet understands it and it's a distraction from learning the real game, which is about timing, footwork and technique AND sportsmanship.

 

[goober]

We'll the computer has me listed at as a 3.0 but so is every other player on my team. ( begginers/intermedite league) I regularly beat all of them, except one who owns me. (that said he also owns everyone else) Thats basically how I figure I'm a average 3.5. Also I have an athletic background in baseball and badmitton (fyi, im only 21, so i have young legs and good health on myside) so all it took for me to get better was time spent hitting the ball and i play every evening weather permitting playing for 2-4 hours.

Well not to be nitpicky but

- a computer rated 3.0 player owns you.
- The fact that you can beat everybody on your team except this one guy is irrelevant. You might be on a really bad team.
-A solid 3.5 should not ever lose to a computer rated 3.0 player.
- Could a complete beginner get to solid 3.5 in 2 months? I would say almost impossible unless you played everyday with intense coaching. Even then your actual match play probably wouldn't be 3.5 league level.

As for your question on giving unsolicited advice. In general it is not a good idea. If they ask for it - then it is fine. How would you like advice from somebody who just started playing 2 months ago?

 

[Mike2228]

How would you like advice from somebody who just started playing 2 months ago?

if it made me better I could live with it.

 

[Mike2228]

Well not to be nitpicky but

- a computer rated 3.0 player owns you.
- The fact that you can beat everybody on your team except this one guy is irrelevant. You might be on a really bad team.
-A solid 3.5 should not ever lose to a computer rated 3.0 player.
- Could a complete beginner get to solid 3.5 in 2 months? I would say almost impossible unless you played everyday with intense coaching. Even then your actual match play probably wouldn't be 3.5 league level.

As for your question on giving unsolicited advice. In general it is not a good idea. If they ask for it - then it is fine. How would you like advice from somebody who just started playing 2 months ago?

1. Hes probably not truely a 3.0, but likely a very good 3.5. Hes been playing for a while but this is his first usta league, so olur coach entered everyone as a 3.0 including him.

2. I suppose...

3. See number 1

4. I played second base at baseball and I believe playing middle infield and playing tennis have a quite similar skill set, in that both require good range, a strong arm and solid reaction/ability to see the ball off the bat/racket.

If someone new at baseball was able to step in and be a solid middle infielder I too would probably have a hard time believeing it without seeing it i guess. But I think a history playing tennis would actually make that senerio possible.

 

[tennis tom]

With some sound coaching, this kid will be a 4.0 within a year.

 

[Cindysphinx]

4. I played second base at baseball and I believe playing middle infield and playing tennis have a quite similar skill set, in that both require good range, a strong arm and solid reaction/ability to see the ball off the bat/racket.

I'm no authority on baseball, but I would have said playing middle infield and playing tennis have totally different skill sets. In that tennis requires endurance, anticipation, strategy, court sense, split-second decision making, the ability to assess a wide variety of opponents and adjust on the fly, and a variety of shots and spins. And there's the fact that there's no coaching allowed in tennis.

 

[AceKing]

I think the comparison between tennis & 2nd base is a bit of a stretch, but there are some similarities - like split-stepping & reacting quickly to the direction of the ball.

As for becoming a "decent 3.5" in 2 months. . . I'd say it's possible, but it would take an extremely gifted athlete. Who knows. . . maybe you are that gifted. I think it's more likely that you're in a group of beginners that are realistically not truly 3.0's. You're the big fish in a small pond. BUT, if you are separating yourself from your tennis peers (those with the same experience as you) after 2 months, you'll most likely be separating yourself from your tennis peers after 2 years also.


Regarding the original question. . . I'd say it all depends on how you present the criticism/coaching. If the guy is really struggling and you do it with a positive attitude, I think it usually will be taken well. If you let the fact that you are aggravated show while you are critiquing, it probably won't be taken well.

 

[goober]

if it made me better I could live with it.

So if a guy that just learned baseball for the first time 2 months ago starting criticizing your play at second base and starting telling you what to do, you would be fine with it if it made you better? I would say that's good for you, but 99% of people would not be okay with it .

 

[goober]

1. Hes probably not truely a 3.0, but likely a very good 3.5. Hes been playing for a while but this is his first usta league, so olur coach entered everyone as a 3.0 including him.

2. I suppose...

3. See number 1

4. I played second base at baseball and I believe playing middle infield and playing tennis have a quite similar skill set, in that both require good range, a strong arm and solid reaction/ability to see the ball off the bat/racket.

If someone new at baseball was able to step in and be a solid middle infielder I too would probably have a hard time believeing it without seeing it i guess. But I think a history playing tennis would actually make that senerio possible.

Well in my experience, most people over rate themselves when they start out- mostly because they haven't played any real competition and only among friends which they can beat easily. Your rating doesn't really matter, but you will find out soon enough when you play. If you are truly a solid 3.5 in a 3.0 league you should win all your matches easily.

 

[LuckyR]

Today at my teams pratice I, neither a coach or captain, was partnered in doubles with a guy I'll call P. P has great instincts at the net but is otherwise no good.

I'm not a super star myself, just a decent 3.5,(i've only been playing for a couple months now.) but P was really getting under my skin. He has apparently no ability to make adjustments or self-assess himself. In the first set I believe he hit maybe 2 balls in play, everything else was either at the back fence or some horribly screwed up shot that ended 50 feet in the air and 4 courts over. He swings as hard as he could at everything he could reach, and his swing is by no means pretty or effective. After having bit my toungue and holding my peace for about a set and a half i finally just told him to settle/ slow down and ease the ball into play rather than going nuts and giving away points on crazy hits 95% of the time the ball is hit at him.

I've seen a couple topics here in my short time here as a poster/reader where people complained about not wishing to recieve or hear advice from a contemporary, but the advice actually seemed to have had a positive impact on his play from that point on.

Was i out of line to have spoken up, or was I wrong to have said anything even though the advice helped?

I think you handled the situation perfectly well. None of our opinions matters, "P"'s opinion is the one that counts and by your description it seems he was able to incorporate it into his play and come out of it with a better quality of play. Good for you.

 

[tennis tom]

An athlete is an athlete in any sport. Baseball and tennis are extremely similar, they just use different sticks. The throwing motion and the serving motion are identical. What I like about this kid, is for 21, he is very mature and has a good brain. His assessment of his partner's abilities and psychology were spot-on, and he was able to figure out what to tell him to do that would work, (although the consensus is NOT to tell partners what to do). He knew it had to be said or they would lose, and he knew how to say it so it wouldn't set his partner off.

The computer doesn't know anything about his legs, his athleticism, his heart. He knows what competition is all about, he's competed in baseball and it's about handling pressure. As far as endurance, I bet ball players do a lot more running before a game than your average tennis player. They have spring training and their season is played during the hottest part of the year.

The main thing he understands is that tennis is about keeping the ball in the park rather than hitting home runs. You got pitches which is serves, and you got batters which is return of serve, and that's what tennis is primarily about, serve and rerturn of serve, the rest is corollary, (whatever the hell that means?).

 

[Cindysphinx]

An athlete is an athlete in any sport. Baseball and tennis are extremely similar, they just use different sticks. The throwing motion and the serving motion are identical. What I like about this kid, is for 21, he is very mature and has a good brain. His assessment of his partner's abilities and psychology were spot-on, and he was able to figure out what to tell him to do that would work, (although the consensus is NOT to tell partners what to do). He knew it had to be said or they would lose, and he knew how to say it so it wouldn't set his partner off.

The computer doesn't know anything about his legs, his athleticism, his heart. He knows what competition is all about, he's competed in baseball and it's about handling pressure. As far as endurance, I bet ball players do a lot more running before a game than your average tennis player. They have spring training and their season is played during the hottest part of the year.

The main thing he understands is that tennis is about keeping the ball in the park rather than hitting home runs. You got pitches which is serves, and you got batters which is return of serve, and that's what tennis is primarily about, serve and rerturn of serve, the rest is corollary, (whatever the hell that means?).

Nope, you didn't sell me at all. Not even a little.

I gotta admire your effort, though. Especially the bit about how baseball is played during the hottest part of the year. 'Cause we all know how tennis players have May-October as their off-season.

To OP: One more thing to consider is this. You were talking about a team practice. That is a time for players to *practice.* It is quite possible that your partner was working on some part of his game -- perhaps upping his swing speed, finishing over his shoulder, who knows. Your "tip" may have embarrassed him into going back to his old pushy habits that he's been trying to break. Not cool, IMHO.

Perhaps I am ultra-sensitive on the point because it frustrates me when teammates don't work on their new skills in team practice, instead playing exactly the way they always play. If I have a new skill or stroke, I am going to do it relentlessly in practice, even if the success rate is low. How else will I learn? It was unwelcome when my partner would focus more on the immediate result ("Just don't come to net; you're getting passed!") than the fact that I was trying to learn a new skill that would serve us well in matches once I fine-tuned it.

 

[Larrysümmers]

Jesus who cares about how good he is and how good he got in 2 months
in short. You Did the right thing! If he is hitting the ball a mile away all the time, you did the right thing by telling him to slow it down.
And you guys are a TEAM and TEAMS help eachother become better, no?

 

[Jim A]

tennis players get crabby when other tennis players tell them how to play. The biggest issue is that its usually an individual sport in a team (doubles/league format). I come from sports (hockey,etc) where there' a lot of chatter between teammates, some of it even printable

face it, your coach/captain/psychic/best friend isn't there to tell you what to do during a match..if my partner is hitting every volley and the racquet is even with or behind him and its costing us points I'm surely going to say something...why would I potentially lose a match to avoid hurting someone's feelings that they are stinking it up...

If I'm doing something that is causing issues and us to lose, I want to know about it...

based on all this though, you can see why I prefer singles

 

[Angle Queen]

Eh...I'm of the mind that I'd want to know if I'm doing something (obvious) wrong.

But as Cindy suggests, he may have been "working" on something. In that case, he should have said so and then you should have backed off. Like Cindy, I use "practice" to try all kinds of stuff, even to the point of telling my "opponents." Since they're mostly teammates or "friendlies" as the Brits might say, they'll even feed me what I'm looking for.

And I guess, too, there might be a difference between the men and the women here. 'Nuf said.

In a match, however, I have the wonderful luxury of playing with the same partners for several seasons now...and anything is open game, during and after the match too. I want to win as much as the next bloke/babe...and if my partner can pick up on something, by all means, TELL ME!

 

[anantak2k]

Well not to be nitpicky but

- a computer rated 3.0 player owns you.
- The fact that you can beat everybody on your team except this one guy is irrelevant. You might be on a really bad team.
-A solid 3.5 should not ever lose to a computer rated 3.0 player.
- Could a complete beginner get to solid 3.5 in 2 months? I would say almost impossible unless you played everyday with intense coaching. Even then your actual match play probably wouldn't be 3.5 league level.

As for your question on giving unsolicited advice. In general it is not a good idea. If they ask for it - then it is fine. How would you like advice from somebody who just started playing 2 months ago?

Goober, I definitely have to disagree with you here. It is rare but there are definitely a few players out there who can get to a 3.5 level in 2 months.

Think about it this way he is obviously athletics, young, has a good sports background and tries to play everyday. There is no reason why he can't get to a 3.5 in 2 months. Especially with the way he described his playing style. At 3.5 athleticism combined with consistency is more than good enough. You don't even need to hit with proper technique. Just putting that extra shot back in play is more than good enough.

I remember when I first started playing tennis when I started college. I never touched a tennis racket before that but I played soccer, badminton, table tennis, and volleyball before that. I loved tennis so much that I played almost everyday and hit against the wall to improve. My footwork and stamina was excellent from soccer, good reflex from badminton and a ton of topspin on my shots from table tennis (too much top spin actually). My ground game came together right away. The serve of course took a lot longer to come together.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Nope, I don't want my partner correcting my stroke mechanics or telling me to "just get it in." They don't know any more about coaching someone than I do. Mostly, they are feeling helpless about the impending loss and feel the need to say something to relieve their own stress. So they coach.

I think it is very hard to offer someone helpful hints and not have it come off as criticism. Not to mention how hard it is to flip a switch and change your strokes or footwork mid-match, especially when you are already tense because you know you are screwing up.

Just last night, I played with a new partner, a 4.0 guy. Nice guy. Plays well. We make a good team. But for some reason, he got a case of the heebie jeebies to start the second set and lost his serve on four consecutive baseline errors. I knew precisely what the problem was: He wasn't moving back on deep balls hit to his feet and was trying to half-volley them.

What did I do about this? Nothing. I worried about making sure I didn't make matters worse by screwing up myself. Without any help from me, he fixed himself and we went on to win the match. It was much better for me to shut the heck up and remain upbeat than to start coaching him.

Please, partner. Worry about your own errors and problems and not mine. But if you have a suggestion about positioning or tactics or strategy, that's fine. Just understand that I might not be able to execute whatever tactic you're suggesting . . . .

 

[LuckyR]

Your opinion is your opinion, just as your personality is yours alone. However, I have had very good luck in having midmatch conversations about changing direction. Of course noone appreciates criticism, however it is a bit naive to suppose that another set of eyes, even eyes with similar or even less experience, can catch things that escape our own attention.

Let's say I am going wide in the deuce court and my partner isn't picking that up and sliding towards the alley to cover that angle. noone appreciates: "you know, you really should be covering the alley when I go wide..." On the other hand who is going to have a problem with: "I am going wide on the first serve and to the body on the second, I'll take the center and crosscourt, you get the DTL shot".

 

[Cindysphinx]

Let's say I am going wide in the deuce court and my partner isn't picking that up and sliding towards the alley to cover that angle. noone appreciates: "you know, you really should be covering the alley when I go wide..." On the other hand who is going to have a problem with: "I am going wide on the first serve and to the body on the second, I'll take the center and crosscourt, you get the DTL shot".

No problem. Positioning stuff is always OK to discuss.

What wouldn't be cool is "Turn your shoulders more." "Step in with your right foot." "Toss it higher." "Keep your racket head up." That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about. Except that most rec players don't know anything and so tend to zero in on the wrong thing and will tell you to do XYZ when you know the problem is ABC.

After all, how often does a partner tell you the reason you missed is your footwork -- the most common reason for missing a shot, IMHO.

 

[LuckyR]

No problem. Positioning stuff is always OK to discuss.

What wouldn't be cool is "Turn your shoulders more." "Step in with your right foot." "Toss it higher." "Keep your racket head up." That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about. Except that most rec players don't know anything and so tend to zero in on the wrong thing and will tell you to do XYZ when you know the problem is ABC.

After all, how often does a partner tell you the reason you missed is your footwork -- the most common reason for missing a shot, IMHO.

I agree that that wording/syle is uncool. However, if your partner of the day is say, flubbing all of their volleys, instead of giving them a clinic on volley stroke mechanics, it is not difficult to say something like: "that guy in the blue shirt is killing us with his passing shots, I think we ought to both start the point from the baseline to see if we can mess with his head", or somesuch.