I may have overstepped

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Murray's best slam win vs the Big 3 was Nadal at the USO 2008. He never managed to surpass that.

After that, he lost surprisingly easily to Nadal at slams like Wimbledon 2010 and 2011, USO 2011, etc. His other win came against a hampered Nadal at the AO. And against Federer, he always did terribly, even when he was doing well Bo3.

He did better vs Djokovic but that USO match in the hurricane was a ****fest, his more impressive victory was the Wimbledon 2013, although Djokovic was playing terribly, Murray played great and it wasn't his fault Djokovic didn't show up. But then in 2014-2016 he was poor vs Djokovic too.

Always did terribly against Federer? They finished 14-11 in their H2H (Murray not winning any more encounters after surgery) and he beat Federer in a Bo5 final at Wimbledon, Fed's favourite surface and venue and also straight setted him in 2 Masters finals. No other player has dome as well against him.

In 2014-16, Murray beat Djokovic in 2 Masters finals (2015 Montreal, 2016 Rome) and in the 2016 WTF in a duel for the Y/E #1 ranking.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Murray's best slam win vs the Big 3 was Nadal at the USO 2008. He never managed to surpass that.

After that, he lost surprisingly easily to Nadal at slams like Wimbledon 2010 and 2011, USO 2011, etc. His other win came against a hampered Nadal at the AO. And against Federer, he always did terribly, even when he was doing well Bo3.

He did better vs Djokovic but that USO match in the hurricane was a ****fest, his more impressive victory was the Wimbledon 2013, although Djokovic was playing terribly, Murray played great and it wasn't his fault Djokovic didn't show up. But then in 2014-2016 he was poor vs Djokovic too.
Yeah that is what I meant. None of his wins convinces me that he had a particularly high ceiling. He was incredibly consistent in beating lesser players and could put up yhr occasional win against subpar playing big three, but he does not have a Krajicek or Safin moment which makes me believe his best was anywhere close to big three and the only problem for him was simply thst he couldn't show it often enough.
 

norcal

Legend
What is history of the game. I have followed tennis from 2012
So in a previous thread about players back in the day criticizing Djokovic for quitting/faking injuries etc you were claiming that was all a false narrative and it wasn't true.

Yet you weren't following the sport back then. How would you know if it were a 'false narrative' if you weren't even watching the matches and listening to what the players said?
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
So in a previous thread about players back in the day criticizing Djokovic for quitting/faking injuries etc you were claiming that was all a false narrative and it wasn't true.

Yet you weren't following the sport back then. How would you know if it were a 'false narrative' if you weren't even watching the matches and listening to what the players said?
I have no idea what context you are talking about.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
But there are other things besides the Slams including other big titles (WTF, Olympics, Masters etc.) and the #1 ranking of course, none of which Wawrinka achieved (except 1 Masters) but Murray did. Slams are the most important things in tennis but they are not all there is in tennis otherwise you could argue that Gaston Gaudio is just as good as Sinner.
I agree, but if people want to argue that Murray is just as good as ATGs of the past, but couldn't win more slams due to the Big 3, then it's only fair to bring up Wawrinka who won just as many slams in the same era.

This makes Murray's case tougher to defend if a worse player could actually match his slam count.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I agree, but if people want to argue that Murray is just as good as ATGs of the past, but couldn't win more slams due to the Big 3, then it's only fair to bring up Wawrinka who won just as many slams in the same era.

This makes Murray's case tougher to defend if a worse player could actually match his slam count.

But the worse player couldn't match anything else that Murray did. That's my point.
 
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