I never know where to stand after hitting a short slice

I always go back, fearing to be lobbed if I charge the net.

I am the one in white. I did not go back fast enough though. I stood in the no-man's land when my opponent tried to hit.

Where should I go after that shot?

============================

Almost the same case. He happened to return straightly to me. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to kill.
 
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Znak

Professional
Id say the net, and then hopefully finish off with a volley. If you get lobbed hustle back ;)

There's no point in being fearful how else are you going to learn?
 

Dan Huben

Semi-Pro
I’ve been coached to get to the service line. To advance on the volley or to cover the lob.

I think many lobs that stay in are when the opponent is a lib master or they had time to hit it a slice should be able to pressure the opponent (not as a winner)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

bostontennis

New User
when you hit back the short slice, if you hit it long, because you feel more comfortable at baseline, then you should go back to baseline; if you return the short slice with a short ball as the video, it depends on how fast your opponent reaches it. if your opponent reach the ball low/late, you should be at net, if your opponent reaches the ball high/early, you should go back to baseline.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
when you hit back the short slice, if you hit it long, because you feel more comfortable at baseline, then you should go back to baseline; if you return the short slice with a short ball as the video, it depends on how fast your opponent reaches it. if your opponent reach the ball low/late, you should be at net, if your opponent reaches the ball high/early, you should go back to baseline.
The last part open up many options for attack from the opponent, if he's fast and OP is backing up he can simply drop shot him, he can cross court a forehead, he has angles and can put the ball wherever he wants and OP will be just giving him all the space in the world, I'd say the best option for a short slice like the one in the video is to close to the net, the lob will be hard to accomplish and even if he somehow manage to get his racquet below, it would likely be a high moonball with plenty of time to get it, any other shot will be volleyed by standing at the net, even a lob is a potentially put away smash.
 

user92626

Legend
Id say the net, and then hopefully finish off with a volley. If you get lobbed hustle back ;)

There's no point in being fearful how else are you going to learn?
Agreed.

OP,

First, learn to volley. Then, in games approach the net, apply your volley skill.

If it's important to you, you may need to balance between getting your @SS kicked too much and getting practices. One of the reasons alot of people can't/don't learn is they fear getting their ego hurt. Never wanna lose. :)
 

bostontennis

New User
The last part open up many options for attack from the opponent, if he's fast and OP is backing up he can simply drop shot him, he can cross court a forehead, he has angles and can put the ball wherever he wants and OP will be just giving him all the space in the world, I'd say the best option for a short slice like the one in the video is to close to the net, the lob will be hard to accomplish and even if he somehow manage to get his racquet below, it would likely be a high moonball with plenty of time to get it, any other shot will be volleyed by standing at the net, even a lob is a potentially put away smash.
there are many scenarios, i said, if he returned the short slice with short ball AND opponent reaches the ball before the ball drops low, he is at disadvantage. You are right, the opponent has many options, but we are talking about best option for him, that would be at his most comfortable position, that is at baseline.
be realistic, if you don't know how to volley, stand at the net and waiting your opponent hit a passing shot, that's the percentage to return?

the video is not above scenario, because the opponent reaches the ball late and that ball was low, the opponent doesn't have many options, that's why he should be up at the net and close it.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
there are many scenarios, i said, if he returned the short slice with short ball AND opponent reaches the ball before the ball drops low, he is at disadvantage. You are right, the opponent has many options, but we are talking about best option for him, that would be at his most comfortable position, that is at baseline.
be realistic, if you don't know how to volley, stand at the net and waiting your opponent hit a passing shot, that's the percentage to return?

the video is not above scenario, because the opponent reaches the ball late and that ball was low, the opponent doesn't have many options, that's why he should be up at the net and close it.
OK, it is imperative for any player to know how to volley to approach the net, if he doesn't know how to volley, there's no point in even asking, he should retreat to the baseline in every scenario because he'll have more chances there.
 
I always go back, fearing to be lobbed if I charge the net.

I am the one in white. I did not go back fast enough though. I stood in the no-man's land when my opponent tried to hit.

Where should I go after that shot?
I would have continued on to the net: I'm halfway between the net and the BL and my momentum is carrying me forwards. That's the path of least resistance.

Maybe I'd modify that thinking if I was horrible at net. But that would be a reason to improve my net game, not cede court position.

Good positioning is a weapon.

If you're worried about lobbing, you need to work on your OHs but even more importantly, the footwork and anticipation and reaction that lead up to a good OH. If you fear the lob if you charge the net, you're weak in one or more of these three areas. Perhaps you run into the net full speed and don't split step to arrest your forward momentum and thus can't reverse directions?
 
OK, it is imperative for any player to know how to volley to approach the net, if he doesn't know how to volley, there's no point in even asking, he should retreat to the baseline in every scenario because he'll have more chances there.
At some point, the lesser of two evils is to keep moving forward, no matter how bad one is at the net because trying to stop and reverse is pointless due to being out of balance and leaving a huge amount of court open. That point is different for everyone, of course.
 

golden chicken

Professional
In my estimation, it's very hard to hit an offensive topspin lob while running up to pick up a short slice, so I would go to the net and take away the middle with positioning and then cover down the line.

The real trick is to stop hitting short slices like that if you aren't going to be aggressive off of them because it gives the advantage to the opponent if you stay back or retreat back.
 

Morch Us

Semi-Pro
You did good considering that you are very weak at net, and fears overheads (correct me if I am wrong). At the level you are playing, probably it is not too bad, since opponents are not going to hurt you with angles.

But the right move is to follow the ball to the net, there by closing any angles possible by your opponent. In both of the video points you could have won the point by an easy volley to the open court. Also would have been able to attack other options available to your opponent very easily. The other options being, drop shot you back, and hit an extreme short angle shot. By stepping back you are only covering back to the middle medium depth shot (with a lob or ground stroke), which is what most opponents would do at your level.

Now that being said, to be effective with that move, you have to be comfortable taking low volleys and push it to open court (don't have to be an amazing volley), and also comfortable with over heads. Probably something to practice.

Where should I go after that shot?
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
Fed uses the short slice a lot - either then follow up to the net, or cheat towards the left to unleash a fh on the next ball.
 
Fed uses the short slice a lot - either then follow up to the net, or cheat towards the left to unleash a fh on the next ball.
Fed doesn't usually follow it to the net: he either hits a strong GS as his off-balance opponent tries to retreat or sets up for a passing shot if the opponent comes to the net.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
You should follow such a ball to the net no excuses. I get ur afraid if ur volleys and smash are bad, but thats a good reason to practice them then.
 

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
First one you should've played it deep and approached the net. Short slice was just the wrong shot to play there. If you want to play it short, play a drop shot and move up. Apply mental pressure that they need to hit a good shot on the full run to beat you. If they end up doing it, fine, you weren't in a good position to win the point anyways since they had the whole court open and they managed to execute hitting to a smaller part of the court with the mental pressure of you bearing down at them at net.

Second one your position was fine, but again you could hit it deep and approach the net. If I weren't planning to approach, I'd much prefer to hit the shot to his backhand instead. His backhand will have a harder time dealing with it, and you won't have to move much to get into position (same spot when defending a crosscourt shot). But 3/4 of the court he can hit into is your forehand, and the other 1/4 he has to achieve off of an awkward shot where you can still punish him by going deep with a crosscourt backhand, either right at his feet or towards the corner.
 

Born_to_slice

Professional
OP: - posts hitting 2 winners - "What am I doing wrong?"
TTW: "You should've played different shot and followed it with the weakest part of your game."

Nice shots and movement btw.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
OP: - posts hitting 2 winners - "What am I doing wrong?"
TTW: "You should've played different shot and followed it with the weakest part of your game."

Nice shots and movement btw.
He didn't ask to rate the shots he made on those videos, he asked what he should do after hitting a short slice and we gave him what we thought is the correct tactical movement regardless of the result of his slice in the video.
 

Born_to_slice

Professional
He didn't ask to rate the shots he made on those videos, he asked what he should do after hitting a short slice and we gave him what we thought is the correct tactical movement regardless of the result of his slice in the video.
Obviously he can follow it to the net but that's just one option. OP's gifs prove it. It's just hilarious that people assumed he has bad volleys and overhead and told him to work on it. Also someone said he should not hit short slice, when in these 2 situations it was a perfect shot selection.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
Obviously he can follow it to the net but that's just one option. OP's gifs prove it. It's just hilarious that people assumed he has bad volleys and overhead and told him to work on it. Also someone said he should not hit short slice, when in these 2 situations it was a perfect shot selection.
OK, I see your point, you're right, he asked for advice and we threaded a whole backstory.
If I was your opponent and noticed you backpedaling into no-man’s land like in the vid, I would have replied to your short slice with a dropshot.
That's my point, if he hits that shot and starts backing it opens up the whole court, he could drop shot him back, he could hit a fh cross court, he could also hit at his feet and it would be a hard shot to return, even if he managed to return, his opponent already has won the net.

Good for OP he won that point but backpedaling like that is a tactical error and depending on the opponent it can cost him many points.
 
Fine-tuning my question: I would go to the net if I hit a good short slice/drop shot. But if the shot I hit turns out floaty and shallow, should I still go to the net anyway? assuming I had reasonable volley and overhead.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
Fine-tuning my question: I would go to the net if I hit a good short slice/drop shot. But if the shot I hit turns out floaty and shallow, should I still go to the net anyway? assuming I had reasonable volley and overhead.
By floaty and shallow you mean slow and low bouncing?

I think you should go to the net if you hit any shot that makes your opponent hit on the run, this takes away options from him, if you hit a less than perfect shot and retrieve to the baseline you are giving him more space and variety of shots to choose from, if is not a perfect shot, at least at the net you are putting him on pressure, you are making him win the point, he'll have to pass you or hit a lob, you'll have more chance to block or smash but if you hit that less than perfect shot and start backpedaling, your opponent now will have more options and you will have to guess what's he going to do with that ball, in that short exchange you are trading an offensive position for a defensive one and are giving him the offensive advantage. Just my 2 cents.
 
Go to the T, position yourself so both feet are inside the left service box and split step. Get ready for the lob and to cover the down the line.
 
By floaty and shallow you mean slow and low bouncing?
I mean slow, landing not deep and also not close to the net, probably slightly shorter than service line, bouncing up as high as shoulders. Just a bad execution and let the opponent easy to attack.

You answered my question. Thank you.
 

Znak

Professional
Fine-tuning my question: I would go to the net if I hit a good short slice/drop shot. But if the shot I hit turns out floaty and shallow, should I still go to the net anyway? assuming I had reasonable volley and overhead.
I'd say it depends on where you're hitting that shot from — if you're hitting a slice from a baseline and it turns out it's floaty/shallow, if the opp is a good player your point is cooked... I would stay near the baseline in that scenario — chances of you getting up to the net in time would be challenging. If you were already slicing a shallow ball and coming into the net like in that first video, then most definitely approach the net and follow through.
 

Born_to_slice

Professional
If I was your opponent and noticed you backpedaling into no-man’s land like in the vid, I would have replied to your short slice with a dropshot.
Can't play a drop shot if ball already bounced twice. IMO, if he plays a good and low bouncing slice which opponent must dig out it's good to approach the net, but if the slice sits up he's in no mans land the most at 1st volley position.
 
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Morch Us

Semi-Pro
Just turn your back or run out of the court (at some levels). Run back to fence at some other levels. Put pressure on the opponent and make him miss the shot at some other levels.

In most cases it is now up to your opponent to screw that up. Just do whatever you can to facilitate that. Running back works, even in this case, only at really low levels, where the percentage finishers are not as powerful.

I mean slow, landing not deep and also not close to the net, probably slightly shorter than service line, bouncing up as high as shoulders. Just a bad execution and let the opponent easy to attack.
 
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fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I mean slow, landing not deep and also not close to the net, probably slightly shorter than service line, bouncing up as high as shoulders. Just a bad execution and let the opponent easy to attack.

You answered my question. Thank you.
That sort of slice that sits up unfortunately gives an opponent a look at hitting just about anywhere.

Since the highest percentage reply is a cross-court shot, that's the one I'd look out for if my opponent is primarily a baseliner.

A more avid net rusher might hit an approach shot straight ahead and follow that ball to the net. But that approach shot could go toward open court to force you to scramble as that opponent moves in.

If that opponent does a lot of cat-and-mouse sort of play, I'd say look out for a drop shot. That might force you to lunge forward and hit up with a weak response.

As I said, a lot of things might happen when you hit a short slice that sits up. But I think it's something to try occasionally if you're not familiar with what an opponent likes to do in different situations. You might have somebody who just freaks out with that short ball and sprays it either into the net or toward the back fence. That can often happen for players who cling to the baseline like a security blanket - draw them forward and they might hit the panic switch to end the point... or donate it to you.

If you want that slice of yours to be more low and penetrating - some like to call that "biting" - try hitting the shot where you make contact a little more back beside you instead of out ahead of you like you do in the clips you posted above. Thanks for posting them, by the way. The further ahead of us that the racquet travels when we swing for a slice backhand, the more the racquet face naturally opens up. Experiment with different contact points if you're trying to get less of that pop up with your slice.

As for your footwork, lean forward so that just about 100% of your weight moves onto your front foot just ahead of hitting the ball. That will give you some leverage and drive - the racquet will somewhat follow your body weight. You might feel sort of like a figure skater gliding and balanced on your front foot as you finish compared with the above action where your weight stays back and you're more "water skiing" as you hit the ball.
 

ubercat

Semi-Pro
agree if he's a big hitter go cross court and don't run all the way back stay low and get ready to just squash shot a block back.

If he has cat and moused you on a couple of points earlier cover the backhand but don't go all the way back in case he drops. Definitely split step as he hits it because you're not sure where it will go. Don't keep backpedaling
 

ubercat

Semi-Pro
So guys sorry to hijack the thread. But half the discussions been had here anyway.

I play under very crappy lights at night. and I'm not a good net player anyway so basically any time I go to the net I lose.

I've got quite a strong forehand so I often get these accidental short slices coming back when I pound the back hand and sometimes on ROS And they are so damned weak they stay low.

So basically I end up trapped at the net like a possum in headlights.

Is the best tactic just to slice for the corner away from them. And hope I actually can pull off a volley.

Or given my weaknesses and the crappy sitch is there a better tactic?
 

Louis33

Rookie
I like your movement and shot selection. The first video your slice stayed up too long to be effective at a higher level, but the spin was nice leading him to miss the shot. If it were me and I had my opponent in the opposite corner a low penetrating slice with less backspin would be the high percentage shot and follow that up with running to the net for a put away volley if necessary. The second video you did a great job with your shot selection IMO
 
So guys sorry to hijack the thread. But half the discussions been had here anyway.

I play under very crappy lights at night. and I'm not a good net player anyway so basically any time I go to the net I lose.

I've got quite a strong forehand so I often get these accidental short slices coming back when I pound the back hand and sometimes on ROS And they are so damned weak they stay low.

So basically I end up trapped at the net like a possum in headlights.

Is the best tactic just to slice for the corner away from them. And hope I actually can pull off a volley.

Or given my weaknesses and the crappy sitch is there a better tactic?
Work on your net game. Under such circumstances, retreating is a tactical mistake: you're turning what should be your advantage into a disadvantage.

This may not be what you want to hear but I think it will produce the best long-term results.
 
figure skater and "water skiing"
I have been told by many to transfer weight, not to hit only by the arm.

I see from my videos that I always load the right leg, skid, hit, and land also on the right leg. This is obviously no weight transfer. However I cannot see my leaning back even from my videos, yet I know I did. Good that you can notice so from other people's videos.

Like your analog, I know what to visualize now.
 

golden chicken

Professional
@ChimpChimp I just noticed you have an odd habit of moving with your arms (and racket!) down at your sides. If you are doing this while at net, you are handicapping yourself severely.

Ready position!
 
@ChimpChimp I just noticed you have an odd habit of moving with your arms (and racket!) down at your sides.
Sorry what does "moving with ... down at your sides" mean?
You mean I position the racquet next to the waist while moving?
[Edit] or you mean in the second gif, after a hit, I put the racquet horizontally across the body, instead of holding it up in ready position?
 

ubercat

Semi-Pro
@S&V-not_dead_yet I have been working on volleys. during the day time they work.

the problem is the lights at Melbourne Park r ike a bar but they have gaps. So since I wear glasses what I see is a glare of lights at different angles. Basically
looking like the lights they used to call ET home.

That's why I don't want to go to the net. I can improve my techniqje all Ilike but if I can't see the damned ball I m still roadkill.

So in that circumstance is there any other tactic I can try?
 
@S&V-not_dead_yet I have been working on volleys. during the day time they work.

the problem is the lights at Melbourne Park r ike a bar but they have gaps. So since I wear glasses what I see is a glare of lights at different angles. Basically
looking like the lights they used to call ET home.

That's why I don't want to go to the net. I can improve my techniqje all Ilike but if I can't see the damned ball I m still roadkill.

So in that circumstance is there any other tactic I can try?
Don't play at night? Ask them to put in better lights? Play elsewhere?

Can you get a anti-glare coating put on your glasses? That might help.

it's a serious disadvantage to not be able to move forward since that's tactically the optimal move. I guess if I couldn't, I would:
- counter-slice as you mentioned
- float it deep to give yourself more time
- drop shot
- go for a winner or at least a forcing shot that produces a weak reply. Lower % but you're in a tough spot.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
You should follow such a ball to the net no excuses. I get ur afraid if ur volleys and smash are bad, but thats a good reason to practice them then.

I have to agree, I was always taught that you should follow your shot in. Follow the path of the ball btw.
 

golden chicken

Professional
Sorry what does "moving with ... down at your sides" mean?
You mean I position the racquet next to the waist while moving?
[Edit] or you mean in the second gif, after a hit, I put the racquet horizontally across the body, instead of holding it up in ready position?
I mean you put the racket by your waist. Placing the racket horizontal across your body is preferable.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
@S&V-not_dead_yet I have been working on volleys. during the day time they work.

the problem is the lights at Melbourne Park r ike a bar but they have gaps. So since I wear glasses what I see is a glare of lights at different angles. Basically
looking like the lights they used to call ET home.

That's why I don't want to go to the net. I can improve my techniqje all Ilike but if I can't see the damned ball I m still roadkill.

So in that circumstance is there any other tactic I can try?
Why you think bad lights hurt you more at net? In terms of making a clean hit, you deal with the ball after bounce with ground stroke. It’s not likely more time compared to volleying. Moreover, if you set up your net approach well, you get a weak ball. You don’t need to move much to get to the ball, you have easier stroke (volley) to execute, you have better options and more margin for error.
What I’m trying to say, if you can successfully play from the baseline with those lights, getting to net in proper situations cannot be worse, unless there’s a very specific dark zone.
 

Fairhit

Semi-Pro
Why you think bad lights hurt you more at net? In terms of making a clean hit, you deal with the ball after bounce with ground stroke. It’s not likely more time compared to volleying. Moreover, if you set up your net approach well, you get a weak ball. You don’t need to move much to get to the ball, you have easier stroke (volley) to execute, you have better options and more margin for error.
What I’m trying to say, if you can successfully play from the baseline with those lights, getting to net in proper situations cannot be worse, unless there’s a very specific dark zone.
I get it, I've played in those conditions, when the lights hit the glasses the flares are distracting, especially if they are foggy, I apply dishwasher soap the night before and clean the glasses before I play, this prevents the fog.

And even if it's not the fog, playing with glasses can be tricky, especially at night and with those big lights pointing at you, serves can be a nightmare.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I have been told by many to transfer weight, not to hit only by the arm.

I see from my videos that I always load the right leg, skid, hit, and land also on the right leg. This is obviously no weight transfer. However I cannot see my leaning back even from my videos, yet I know I did. Good that you can notice so from other people's videos.

Like your analog, I know what to visualize now.
Another idea that might be helpful for promoting the move that you want is the feeling of letting gravity draw you forward as you hit the ball. As you lean onto your right side, you're also looking to hit the ball with a mildly descending racquet. So once everything is set to swing, the combination of the descending racquet and deliberate move onto your right foot can feel a lot like a downward (rightward?) leaning action.

When I was working on this shot with a high school slugger a few years ago, it really clicked for him when I coaxed him toward "falling" onto his right foot through the stroke.
 

ubercat

Semi-Pro
I'm good at hittng an approach and getting to the net. The problem is as soon as they lob or just generally pop one up it's like looking into a disco ball. for whatever reason baseline play is not great under the new lights but I can cope.

I'm not making excuses guys I used to have a deadly overhead since the new lights I often completely miss the ball

I guess I'm just going to have to get very good at low slice so it's hard to pop it up. And work at volleying from near the T so if they do lobb I can back up and run them down.

Anti-glare coating is a good idea I'll try that
 
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