Discussion in 'Racquets' started by !<-_->!, Aug 25, 2005.
Given the choice of either, which would you choose?
mid, because I like small heads
Eh, they're both mids. But which one. The classic Prestige Mid, or the one that came after, the i.Prestige Mid.
i'll choose classic mid because i am using i. prestige mid; LOL many players claimed that the classic stick feels better; I want to try it out but the local shops don't have it.
iTxMe, how does the i.Prestige mid play? What are your opinions about it? What can you compare it to?
i have/had both at one time. i just prefer the more muted, stiffer feel of the i.prestige because i need that extra pop in the upper hoop. it's really about preference; a lot of people really like the way the classic feels as it has more of that old school feel that everyone loves. i think i liked the classic mid when it had a good amount (2-3 layers of 4" length) of lead tape at the 3/9/handle because it just felt that much more solid.
Play with the LM Prestige Mid. The i.Prestige feels more stiff, and more solid, but your arm will feel it more. I agree though, the classic feels more "old school" hard to describe, but it's closer to that wood fell than modern racquets.
if you have any arm problems, I wouldn't recommend any of them to you. 18 x 20 patterns are not good in this respect. choose something less dense.
they are all good rackets, but ...
I see. Thanks for the feedback. The more power of the i.Prestige seems better, though I've been able to use a 13+oz PT 280 before. But the aura that surrounds the Prestige Classic just seems so appealing. Such a hard decision to make.
I use both, prefer the iPrestige mid for a bit more control. PC has a softer feel, seems to have a boxier grip, but not quite the response high in the head. Its just a personal preference like the versions of the Wilson 6.1
Both are great frames. I'm not about to get into the battle of which is best. It's a preference. However, in my opinion, The i Prestige mid is firmer, however, I've never had problems with elbow injury or any other physical occurrences with the i Prestige. As a matter of fact ..... the i Prestige was rated as one the most arm friendly frames. The i Pres. mid has a stiffer hoop ... much more responsive when a ball is hit high in the hoop. I find the i Prestige more stable. For me ... the i Prestige mid performs better than the classic in all areas. IMO, the i Prestige mid plays much better strung in the middle of the tension range. Much to "boardy feeling strung at the high end. My preference is a good multi. However, the classic has that nice "buttery" feel. I also personally prefer the i Prestige mid over the LM. However, the LM mid, imo, is an improvement over the classic and would be my solid 2nd choice. All the hoop-la over the classic .... I just don't get it!!!
Also .... demo the Yonex RDX 500 mid and the Vokyl v-engine tour mid. Nice frames.
My personal preference is for the Prestige Classic. I find it much better weighted than the i-Prestige and with a lot better feel. The i-Prestige has a lower swingweight which makes it nice up at net but I dont enjoy the stiffer feel.
As to it being a problem with arm and elbow problems, I might concede that the i-Prestige doesnt feel as comfortable but the Prestige Classic is a beautiful racquet for anyone with arm/elbow/wrist problems. Given the smaller head size it allows you to string lower and reap the benefits of more power and greater comfort. In comparison to the POG mid and PS 6.0 85 the Head wins hands down despite the 18x20 string pattern.
All up I consider the Prestige Classic to be the last true 'Prestige' frame. The i-series and LM are quite a change from the traditional feel of, what I consider to be, the best racquet made in the last -almost- 20 years. If that sounds outlandish, consider that its still being used by the pros whereas the PS85 and the POG have fallen by the wayside.
Thanks for all the insightful advice. Despite the classic feel of the Prestige Classic, it seems that the better response in the upper hoop will be better for me. Also, just the more inherent power seems to sound better. All in all, thanks for the responses.
Well, I have just bought a PC 600 based on similar advice. Problem is, it activates my tennis elbow pretty badly on serves, while I have no problems with 85.
I think the tight 18x20 pattern isn't a good idea for TE.
BTW, I strung it with a multi, NXT Tour 17 @ 64 lbs, thus lower than the 68lbs which I have on my 85s.
And I don't think reducing the tension is too much of a solution, as the relatively flexible frame seems to send the balls longer than the 85s (more powerful) and I need control.
Also, I don't think PC 600's stiffness to be a problem, as its about 60 and thus much lower than 85s. Nor its materials (just graphite).
Thus the string pattern should be the problem for me.
I am going to start placing lead at 3 and 9, to increase the mass and thus reduce the shocks at impact, but didn't want to change the feel and the balance of the racket.
Another solution would be to put gut to see how it works, but that is expensive.
Otherwise, PC 600 seems a great racket, but ...
Bottom line: wouldn't recommend 18x20 patterns to anyone with arm problems.
Marius .. you said ...."BTW, I strung it with a multi, NXT Tour 17 @ 64 lbs, thus lower than the 68lbs which I have on my 85s."
I can see why you'd have elbow problems.
I still think its a good racquet for someone with arm/wrist/elbow problems (being one of them myself) but I can see how, strung at 64lbs, it could be a problem for some.
Cant say I know how it plays with your particular set-up as I string mine with just a standard 15 gauge synth gut. I find thinner gauge strings a bit harsh so tend to go no thinner than 16g. The one thing Id be concerned about is increasing the overall weight of the frame. That will just increase the power which wont suit you.
Have you tried the ProKennex Heritage Type C midsize? One of the players at our club suffers from quite bad tennis elbow and he swears by them. Not my cup of tea and it is an 18x20 but if it worked for him then you might have some luck as well.
Well, 6.0 85 is fine with me, no problems with them.
I bought PC 600 just because you and others wrote nicely about them and became curious. I don't need to change the racket.
In terms of increasing the power by lead tape, I have over 40g on some of my 85s, and I can control the power, but I didn't want to change the original feel of the racket here.
Well, tension can definitely contribute to TE. But I have 68lbs on 85s. I start to feel pain on 85s at 72. Thus my TE starts pretty high on 85s and I would have expected to be OK at 64 on the PC 600. I certainly think reducing the tension would help, but wonder about the control, thus ...
The PC600 a comfortable stick but every injury is unique and it sounds like yours doesnt like something about the racquet. My guess is its not the flex and its not the weight and I really doubt its the strings or tension (wouldnt hurt switching the string though. Go heavier gauge and see how that feels). Possibly the swingweight or the grip shape. If I were you Id be fiddling with the grip and possibly changing the shape so its more like the Wilson. Some grip shapes dont suit some people and can aggravate old injuries. Of course, thats not a scientific fact just a personal observation based on 20 odd years of playing and coaching. If youve used Head racquets before and had no problems then I wouldnt be persisting with the racquet because there's no point in making things worse.
Sorry to interrupt, but what does 'heavier' gauge mean?
I've owned both racqyets. I prefer the Classic Mid. The i.prestige is indeed very stiff. Even strung at 48lbs with a multi, it still feels too stiff for my liking.
thats just my way of saying a thicker string. probably doesnt translate so well from australia to the rest of the world. heavier just means denser or thicker, although it gets a lower number, so im just referring to 15-16gauge.
Marius, I know you are at advance level, but 64 lbs string tension (recommendation written on the frame is 48-58) on PC600? You must be generating lots of momentum with you swing. DO you have any problem with head warping at that tension?
You're right about the recommended range for PC600.
I was also aware that the majority of the users here are using it in that range.
However, I had a discussion with my stringer and he suggested that from 68lbs on 85 I shouldn't go lower than 64 on PC600.
He knows the racket well, as he strung for Ivanisevic at Roland Garros on the same racket. Something about 53lbs, he said, even if I found on the net that Goran used 62 at some time or another. As my need is mostly control and not power, he suggested 64 for me. It definitely seems high now, but only in terms of elbow. All the shots are beautiful, just a little bit long from the baseline, but that's something which one corrects easily with usage.
And yes, I asked on the forum about higher tensions (up to 70) on PC600 and no one replied anything. For the time being I see no warping, the stringer and the machine are very good. Also, I certainly had more than 70 on 6.0 85, but I think that's a tougher frame, thus indeed I wouldn't want to risk.
The point you make about every injury being unique is very valid.
Thank you for your other suggestions. I am considering everything, as I like the way the racket plays. Never used Heads before.
At the limit, I might drop the tension in the 50s and use gut as a last resort. I might have some difficulty controlling the power initially, but I think this is a fun learning process. I have 50 on a Estusa and manage to play well with it.
Your concern about the warping seems to be warranted.
I had a discussion with my stringer today and he told me that this frame is quite flexible and less sturdy than say 6.0 85 at high tensions.
This is why he will use the "around the world" stringing method at the next stringing. Not sure of what this consists of (he explained me briefly that distributes better the stress in the racket, but didn't have the time to get more details).
As a matter of fact, that'll be today, as I decided to reduce the tension immediately to 54lbs, and to use BB Tonic 16 gut (instead of the NXT 17 which I had before).
I took this decision because I wanted to decide ASAP if the racket can be used by myself with no TE, at least in some configurations. If TE still shows up under these circumstances, we would have to part ways, me and the PC600.
I still don't know if I will be satisfied with the control at 54lbs. Certainly I will get more power on my serves, but that's not everything.
opps! I posted this reply on the wrong board. Ah, if it was me I wold pick the Prestige Classic.
Update on PC 600 Mid, two weeks later (enough to have less pain in my elbow to allow me to play).
I reduced the tension to 54lbs (from 64lbs), and used BB Tonic 16 gut (instead of the NXT 17 which I had before).
I also added a total of 12g lead at 3 and 9 o'clock. The racket is now 373g, balanced at 33cm from the buttcap (including a tournagrip over the leather grip and a bumper tape), relatively heavy, but OK for me as I am using 6.0s up to 410g.
PC 600 works beautifully for all shots, with the exception of serve, which I am avoiding yet, because of the elbow.
Considerable control, no trampoline (even at 54lbs), lots of topspin if ordered (!), good volleys. The grip of the ball with 18x20 is something special for me, used only to 16x19.
I think I executed some of the best topspin BHs ever today. Slice works fine too (the lead definitely helps in that respect).
The feeling with the natural gut is indeed "buttery"
Marius, it also took me sometime getting used on the serve with PC600. It felt the ball does not accelerate no matter how much effort you put in. It gets better as time progress
so would you guys pick the classic over the LM? can the classic produce the heavy ball i get with the LM?
The bottom line is about which "feel" you prefer. Everybody will end up different way. Several peopel told me LM has the feel of larger sweet spot.
2 excelents rackets, try them and choose one
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