I see no way past Berdych for Murray

tank_job

Banned
Berdych literally owns Murray - look at their H2H.

Furthermore, the slam H2H is 100% in Berdych's favor.

If Berdych can beat Federer pretty easily, I image he'd steamroll Murray.

What can Murray attack? Berdych has a better forehand, a better backhand, a better serve and better volleys. Nowadays his movement, defense, and return of serve look to be equal to Murray's as well.

Murray should have lost his QF to who is essentially Berdych-lite: Cilic. If he struggles with Berdych-lite, he is going to get destroyed by the real deal.

It will be a demolition job, not pretty.
 

Rozroz

G.O.A.T.
hope your guts are usually right.
i'm afraid the post big Fed win might cause Berdych to
give a poor match.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Whenever Berdych comes up with an effort like the one against Federer he invariably comes up a bit flat the following match. It's basically always been the case.
 

TennisLovaLova

Hall of Fame
^^^ of course that's the also the Gulbis pattern
But you never know with Berdych anything can happen. It will depend on which court they'll play.
Ashe favors murray cause it's much slower than Armstrong.
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
how you play in your last match rarely has anything to do with how you play in your next match. ask fed.
 

ark_28

Legend
I don't buy the argument that Berdych will be flat just because he beat Fed it's not like he's Rosol who has just had a once in a lifetime moment!

In 2010 Berdych beat Federer in Wimbledon quarters then Novak in semis!
 

tank_job

Banned
One thing's for sure: if Murray loses to Berdych, everyone will call him an eternally slamless pusher, but if he wins, everyone will call him a vulture who can only get to finals when he doesn't have to face the Big Three.

It sure is fun being a Murray hater!!
 
One thing's for sure: if Murray loses to Berdych, everyone will call him an eternally slamless pusher, but if he wins, everyone will call him a vulture who can only get to finals when he doesn't have to face the Big Three.

It sure is fun being a Murray hater!!
Jus know the population on TW is not "everyone"... the general consensus's thoughts on tennis and the quite often stupid and ludicrous general consensus's thought on tennis of this forum are World's apart.

All this ******** with "pusher" "choker" "tanker" its all **** your mind has been indoctrinated by... yes some players do choke but others jus don't play the big points as well.

For me, Murray won't lose to Berdych, Berdych didn't beat Federer yesterday, Federer beat Federer and Berdych simply pounced on his opportunities.
 

sunny_cali

Semi-Pro
Berdych literally owns Murray - look at their H2H.

Furthermore, the slam H2H is 100% in Berdych's favor.

If Berdych can beat Federer pretty easily, I image he'd steamroll Murray.

What can Murray attack? Berdych has a better forehand, a better backhand, a better serve and better volleys. Nowadays his movement, defense, and return of serve look to be equal to Murray's as well.

Murray should have lost his QF to who is essentially Berdych-lite: Cilic. If he struggles with Berdych-lite, he is going to get destroyed by the real deal.

It will be a demolition job, not pretty.
Sorry - I don't see it that way. Murray defends way better than Fed, and can frustrate Bird into errors. One of Fed's problems was he was rattled by Bird's pace and depth and tried to inject too much pace of his own in an attempt to end rallies faster. All that resulted in was too many UE on his part. He didn't seem to trust either his b/h or his ability to defend.

Murray has no such problems -- expect the match to be really close. If Bird is dialed in he could take it in 4 tight sets - if it goes to a fifth expect Murray to win.

Overall I'd say Murray 55-45. A demolition job in Bird's favor seems unlikely, unless Murray is physically off (it's not clear to me if he's in the best condition physically, all the extra games at the Olympics seem to have taken a toll).
 

Peters

Professional
Jus know the population on TW is not "everyone"... the general consensus's thoughts on tennis and the quite often stupid and ludicrous general consensus's thought on tennis of this forum are World's apart.

All this ******** with "pusher" "choker" "tanker" its all **** your mind has been indoctrinated by... yes some players do choke but others jus don't play the big points as well.
This.

It's quite funny sometimes how strangely skewed TT is compared to more considered general tennis views out in the real world. It's like some juvenile, warped fantasy tennis playground in here at times.
 

ark_28

Legend
Tennis_Maestro;6870730 For me said:
You could easily say the same about Murray Cilic! Murray didn't beat him but Cilic choked!! And say what you want but 6-3 5-1 is a choke!
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
Berdych beat a flat federer and even then federer managed to take a set off him, A Murray who turns up will straight sets Berdych imo.

H2H arnt a good way to predict the outcome of a match, its current form, hell Murray has a better H2H against Federer and has lost 3 GS finals to him.

As usual with tennis, its whoever is better on the day but if both players turn up at their best then Murray will steamroll Berdych, not the other way around.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
I'm not ready to put Berdych in the final. Looked great last night. But has to play just as well Saturday.

Murray has to play better than he did yesterday or he will probably lose. But he likes NYC and can do it. Just has to go for shots.
 
This.

It's quite funny sometimes how strangely skewed TT is compared to more considered general tennis views out in the real world. It's like some juvenile, warped fantasy tennis playground in here at times.
BANG ON!

No suprise we are both from the UK.
 
You could easily say the same about Murray Cilic! Murray didn't beat him but Cilic choked!! And say what you want but 6-3 5-1 is a choke!
What about the third set? Did he choke in the third? INFACT! Murray was beating Murray in the first and second sets and Cilic was pouncing.

The Arthur Ash court plays FASTER than the Louis Armstrong, considering Cilic's massive serve and how flat and deep he was hitting his groundstrokes, the effect this would have on the surface would have been tough for Murray to deal with. Eventually Murray got the knack of the surface and Cilic got a little tight after he got one break back. Third set Murray was playing as Murray and well the fourth was Cilic being emotionally burnt out.
 

ark_28

Legend
What about the third set? Did he choke in the third? INFACT! Murray was beating Murray in the first and second sets and Cilic was pouncing.

The Arthur Ash court plays FASTER than the Louis Armstrong, considering Cilic's massive serve and how flat and deep he was hitting his groundstrokes, the effect this would have on the surface would have been tough for Murray to deal with. Eventually Murray got the knack of the surface and Cilic got a little tight after he got one break back. Third set Murray was playing as Murray and well the fourth was Cilic being emotionally burnt out.
Pretty much yes because after the 2nd set choke mentally he had handed over all control to Murray it didn't take a genius to show that would affectively end the match as a contest!

Ashe is slower but Murrays one day match there he wasn't that impressive in first round it can go either way but Murray is a good match up for Berdych he has the game to take the raquet out of Murrays hands Murray definitely needs a high first serve percentage as Berdych will take his 2nd serve to the woodshed.
 
Pretty much yes because after the 2nd set choke mentally he had handed over all control to Murray it didn't take a genius to show that would affectively end the match as a contest!

Ashe is slower but Murrays one day match there he wasn't that impressive in first round it can go either way but Murray is a good match up for Berdych he has the game to take the raquet out of Murrays hands Murray definitely needs a high first serve percentage as Berdych will take his 2nd serve to the woodshed.
No, Murray won the match after he took a 2 sets to 1 lead, Cilic was still mentally with it in the 3rd set, Murray had to outplay him.

I honestly see no chance for Berdych. Go and check on howmany unforced errors Federer made in those opening sets. Berdych played well in parts, pulling off remarkable winners, but if you look over the match as a whole, in-particular the first set, you'll see Federer was gifting points.
 

ark_28

Legend
No, Murray won the match after he took a 2 sets to 1 lead, Cilic was still mentally with it in the 3rd set, Murray had to outplay him.

I honestly see no chance for Berdych. Go and check on howmany unforced errors Federer made in those opening sets. Berdych played well in parts, pulling off remarkable winners, but if you look over the match as a whole, in-particular the first set, you'll see Federer was gifting points.
Cilic was not in the match after losing 2nd set check his body language!! Sure he held twice then got broken but he knew he had thrown away his chance that was clear in his play.

Federer was erratic first two sets but end of third onwards he played well Berdych held him off besides to me Berdych has looked good all tournament his run to the final in WS I think has given him a lot of confidence.

Murray has a chance but to say Berdych has no chance when he has jus beaten Federer in a major for the 2nd time and holds a 4-2 record on Murray is laughable.
 
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jaggy

Talk Tennis Guru
Berdys a bad match up for Murray so I favor Berd slightly, Murray needs to come in with his head on from the first point
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
To say Berdych has no chance is a bit silly. His confidence will be sky high after beating Fed and he always goes into a match with Murray with fairly high confidence anyway because he leads their overall H2H. However, while he is 2-0 v Murray on clay, they are evenly matched on HC at 2-2.

If Murray comes out playing like he did against Raonic, and Berdych carries on where he left off against Fed, it's going to be a very close and thrilling matchup!
 
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Cilic was not in the match after losing 2nd set check his body language!! Sure he held twice then got broken but he knew he had thrown away his chance that was clear in his play.

Federer was erratic first two sets but end of third onwards he played well Berdych held him off besides to me Berdych has looked good all tournament his run to the final in WS I think has given him a lot of confidence.

Murray has a chance but to say Berdych has no chance when he has jus beaten Federer in a major for the 2nd time and holds a 4-2 record on Murray is laughable.
First paragraph - I disagree.

Second paragraph - I agree, he gave Berdych a 2 set head-start and you jus can't do that against someone with the style of play Berdych has. In the fourth set Berdych was serving first, Fed had 2 stupid moments to go 0-30, pulled it back, but then caught the net with the forehand (Taking the ball out) Berdych then made a good return, Fed attacked Berdych's forehand side like a muppet and Berdych on the backfoot slightly, made a remarkable flat forehand winner into the corner. That was all she wrote. I don't agree he has played that well in all honesty, he has jus beaten the player's he has been expected to on this surface. This is a fairly quick court and Berdych playing @ even 60% should be ousting most opposition outside of the top 10 quite easily on it.

Third paragraph - Listen, beating Murray @ the French Open is not beating Murray @ a major as far as I am concerned. Murray almost lost to Troicki @ the French. 2 of Berdych's wins versus Murray have been on clay and one on indoor hard. Clay = Murray's worst surface Indoor hard = Berdych's best surface. I don't count that nonsense in Adelaide back in 2006 BTW, Murray was a teenager and Berdych had 2 years on him.

Murray has way too much hustle and bustle for Berdych, not to forget Berdych plays the big points awful, Federer never made Berdych "think" .. when you make Berdych think, he fks up, Berdych was getting through on one or two big shots coupled with stupid errors from Roger. Murray will counter Berdych's big forehand and yes he may go into a spree of making errors, but he won't last as long as Fed did. A chance, may be, glimmer though.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
Cilic was not in the match after losing 2nd set check his body language!! Sure he held twice then got broken but he knew he had thrown away his chance that was clear in his play.
Sure Cilic was spooked but Murray gradually upped his act and started playing his normal game. After winning that 2nd set, there was going to be no stopping him even if Cilic had got back on track.

You have to ask why Cilic choked at all? He has come through many 5 setters and usually wins them. But he had no confidence to try and do that against Murray. That's the difference when playing against a top player versus someone of equal or lower ranking.
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
Sure Cilic was spooked but Murray gradually upped his act and started playing his normal game. After winning that 2nd set, there was going to be no stopping him even if Cilic had got back on track.

You have to ask why Cilic choked at all? He has come through many 5 setters and usually wins them. But he had no confidence to try and do that against Murray. That's the difference when playing against a top player versus someone of equal or lower ranking.
Good point. Cilic was 31-0 this year where he won the first set - until yesterday.
 
Sure Cilic was spooked but Murray gradually upped his act and started playing his normal game. After winning that 2nd set, there was going to be no stopping him even if Cilic had got back on track.

You have to ask why Cilic choked at all? He has come through many 5 setters and usually wins them. But he had no confidence to try and do that against Murray. That's the difference when playing against a top player versus someone of equal or lower ranking.
Name me one 5 set match he's come through and won against a top 10 player.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Berdych literally owns Murray - look at their H2H.

Furthermore, the slam H2H is 100% in Berdych's favor.

If Berdych can beat Federer pretty easily, I image he'd steamroll Murray.

What can Murray attack? Berdych has a better forehand, a better backhand, a better serve and better volleys. Nowadays his movement, defense, and return of serve look to be equal to Murray's as well.

Murray should have lost his QF to who is essentially Berdych-lite: Cilic. If he struggles with Berdych-lite, he is going to get destroyed by the real deal.

It will be a demolition job, not pretty.
Only problem with your weird logic is that Murray is not the same murray in those very close matches, Not own. Murray now has huge forehand to add to his weapons. and now he uses his serve to set up his forehand and backhand and not just gunning for aces. and murray volleys much better. and murray is mentally tough where berdy is as tough as a pigeon.
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
I said 5 sets. This guy said Cilic usually comes through 5 set matches, I'd like to know which 5 set match Cilic has won against a World class player.
He beat the then world number 5 and reigning USO Champion Del Potro at the AO in 2009 over 5 sets.

He's also beaten Fish, Roddick and Nalbandian in 5 set matches.
 
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Al Czervik

Hall of Fame
If your life was on the line, I have a hard time thinking you guys would go with Berdy. The last time I thought he would roll to a grand slam victory, Nadal beat him like a drum in the Wimbledon final. Berd never maintains that level over the course of a few matches. Murray will carve him up nicely.
 
Berdych's level of play is more erratic than Murray's level of play on any given day. He played one of his best matches against a deflated, shanking Fed that played his worst match since his loss to him at Miami in 2010 and STILL needed four sets to get the job done.

I doubt he'll carry his level over to the next match where I feel Murray will probably put him out. When it comes to the wire, Berdych has nowhere near the mental strength on the big stages to put the other guy out of his misery. Murray wants this slam real bad, and after yesterday, I honestly feels he's gonna get it
 

Ginger ninja

Semi-Pro
Murray's going to slice and dice him until his heads spinning. He'll also move him from side to side and back to front. He'll have the drop shot out in force too. Berdych looks as if he has a broomstick in his hand when he's at net. Murray will be up for it too. I wouldn't make much of berdych feasting on Murray's second serve - it's totally different, and much more difficult to blast, than previous years.

Murray's winning this.

Btw, did anyone else see Murray grin at cilic yesterday when he was 0-40 3-5 in the second set. "I know you're falling apart". Mind games that will get to berdych too.
 
This is IT. If Murray does not take opportunity this time to bag a Slam, he'll forever be the best man..Such opportunities come very few times..

Lendl will tear his hair out (whatevers left) ...if Murray doesnt win..cant have it any easier now.

Murray has gone deeper in Slams vis-a-vis Berdych..that matters a lot.
 

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
Only problem with your weird logic is that Murray is not the same murray in those very close matches, Not own. Murray now has huge forehand to add to his weapons. and now he uses his serve to set up his forehand and backhand and not just gunning for aces. and murray volleys much better. and murray is mentally tough where berdy is as tough as a pigeon.
 

Govnor

Professional
Murray is too good of a defender and grinder to let himself be smoked on Saturday. I suspect most don't agree with your call here.
 

Fedex

Legend
Only problem with your weird logic is that Murray is not the same murray in those very close matches, Not own. Murray now has huge forehand to add to his weapons. and now he uses his serve to set up his forehand and backhand and not just gunning for aces. and murray volleys much better. and murray is mentally tough where berdy is as tough as a pigeon.
Big Berd is no pigeon.
If you want to compare animals, Berdych is an eagle and Murray a Wolverine.

 

kaku

Professional
This is Big Bird's first USO Semi, no knowing how he's going to play at such a stage after a huge upset.

Hopefully Murray will come out firing like his Wimbledon Semi vs Tsonga. Strangely enough, his QF was also rather similar to his Wimbledon QF; in both matches, the opponent was serving for a two sets to love lead.
 

tank_job

Banned
Its Berdych.. You can't tell what his level will look like from one round to the next
Yes, but would anyone disagree that even a poor Berdych can easily take an in-form Murray out?

I don't think so - look at their H2H.

Berdych doesn't need to be playing anywhere near his best to take the pusher out.
 

90's Clay

Banned
I don't think it matters though.. No one is beating Nole if this is the level he brings.. Hes just TOYING with Del Potty
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Berdych literally owns Murray - look at their H2H.

Furthermore, the slam H2H is 100% in Berdych's favor.

If Berdych can beat Federer pretty easily, I image he'd steamroll Murray.

What can Murray attack? Berdych has a better forehand, a better backhand, a better serve and better volleys. Nowadays his movement, defense, and return of serve look to be equal to Murray's as well.

Murray should have lost his QF to who is essentially Berdych-lite: Cilic. If he struggles with Berdych-lite, he is going to get destroyed by the real deal.

It will be a demolition job, not pretty.
Learn the meaning of literally - slavery was abolished. furthermore 4-2 is not owning someone and the one and only slam meeting was on clay and berdych is not the most consistent player.
 

PSNELKE

Legend
What about the third set? Did he choke in the third? INFACT! Murray was beating Murray in the first and second sets and Cilic was pouncing.

The Arthur Ash court plays FASTER than the Louis Armstrong, considering Cilic's massive serve and how flat and deep he was hitting his groundstrokes, the effect this would have on the surface would have been tough for Murray to deal with. Eventually Murray got the knack of the surface and Cilic got a little tight after he got one break back. Third set Murray was playing as Murray and well the fourth was Cilic being emotionally burnt out.
So much crap in one post. No wonder he got banned.

Exactly.. Berdych is FAR from a for sure thing to make it to the finals. He toyed with Fed at wimbledon in 2010 then turns to complete garbage vs. nadal.
First he schooled Djokovic in the semis before bending over for Nadal as always. Ralph is immune to his firepower.
I definately think Berdych can win the whole thing if he keeps his head together this time.
 
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