I showed the Wilson rep up!! haha

Andy Zarzuela

Andy Zarzuela

Professional
I was in a tennis shop tent today during the rain delay at Amelia Island and I saw a guy in one of the tents BSing the mess out of this poor man and his daughter that were innocently inquiring about racquets. He picked up an n3 and said this is exactly what Serena is using, because she wants maximum power. I couldn't resist. I said "Ok, then why does Serena have powerholes on top of her frame huh?" He sneered at me for perhaps making is potential buyers skeptical....he said that "Serena has her powerholes drilled in." He said that the stock n3 has powerholes as well. Then I mentioned " But Serena has them at both 3 and 9 and 12 o'clock".Likhovtseva just happened to just got done playing and he picked up an Nsix-one 95 and he's like, Likhovtseva uses this exact racquet, and she can hit the ball nearly as hard as Serena... blah blah blah. Again, I couldn't resist, I said "then why does she have a denser stringing pattern" then it was then I realized that Wilson recently released a denser version, but we all know she doesn't use that. That makes me mad how they just market racquets like this. He mentioned how all the touring pros have their own customization that Wilson provides for them in their pro room; however, why is it before I even mentioned my skepticality...he said these frames were exactly what Serena Williams or Elena Likhovtseva, and Lindsay Davenport use! So after that paintjob coverup story, even if it was true, it still NOT THE SAME EXACT RACQUET AS IS IN STORES! It's just makes me mad! I just had to vent!! Thanks for reading!
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So, basically you were a jerk to someone who was just doing his job in front of a father and his young daughter?

Um...yay?
 
No kidding, a job is a job is a job. I could care less if they are paint jobs are not. Wilson does do a good job producing racquets, especially in their prostaff line and the six-one is still one of the most solid made. I hope these are around forever and if it takes marketing paint jobs to justify producing "players" racquets than thats fine by me.
 
everything the guys above me echo the same response very "bad form" on your part. don't post here until you apologize.
 
Andy,
Well done. A job is a job, but being a hitman is a job, and I don't think people should think it's okay just because it's someone's job.

Telling people they are the exact same racquets is unethical, period. Wilson does make excellent rackets, but that is completely beside the point here.
 
i'm afraid behaviour like that isnt going to get you very far in life kid (i assume you are a kid, not that it justifies your behaviour). i think you should go back to the Wilson booth on the morrow, seek out the Wilson rep and very politely and humbly apologize for your inappropriate behaviour this day.
 
Andy,
You have nothing to apologize for. If anything, the Wilson rep should apologize to all the customers he has lied to. Lying is wrong regardless of why you do it.
 
need2paint said:
Andy,
Well done. A job is a job, but being a hitman is a job, and I don't think people should think it's okay just because it's someone's job.

Telling people they are the exact same racquets is unethical, period. Wilson does make excellent rackets, but that is completely beside the point here.
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How is it productive to try to embarrass the Wilson rep? Is he the one responsible for Wilson's stance regarding paint jobs? It might cost Wilson one sale, but it might not. But it certainly makes Andy look like an a.sshole.

If he has a problem with the paintjob issue, he would be better served taking it up with the folks at Wilson corporate. He's not doing himself any favors by trying to humiliate a Wilson rep at a local tournament.
 
Business is business. You'd be hard pressed to find and tackle much more important issues and real damages, lies, scandals, corruption else where. If you are looking for trouble, yes you can definitely find it just about anywhere in just about any organization. As far as I'm concerned, Wilson sells excellent performance racquets and have stayed true to their "players" racquet line. If it *really* bothers anyone that much, than there are more pressing issues involved other than racquet manufacturers.... Nobody got killed, nobody was blown, nobody was *****, nobody was pillaged, nobody got cancer. At worst the buyer purchased a performance racquet that wasn't to the exact weight specifications of the touring PRO, though the frame / constrution process / material / quality was to the same standard..... big deal. In the mean time I enjoy playing with my Tour 90s and 6.1 95.... Thank you Wilson, you still make great racquets, keep making them as solid as you have been and I will keep buying.
 
what humiliate wilson rep.. even pro shop or local shop in your area does that...please as if wilson rep was giving racquet for FREE.. after all we pay big amount and because of that wilson can give $$ to players. I will say most of the company lie to customer and you are saying go and tell sorry no way!!!

I know every player customize racquet as per their requirement. At least rep should say that this is closer to what pro is using and you can make changes according to your game. end of the story.. but real world is different after all...
 
need2paint said:
Wilson's.

I haven't seen anyone justify the reps actions yet and I'd like to see someone try.
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I could care less what you see through your rose colored glasses.

So who do you THINK you are? A person who is disallusioned by their own supossedly high moral standards, to now think that you are heading a debate. Grow up kids, there are better and much smarter was of disagreeing with an issue than to take it up with a Wilson sales rep. Thats my final take, I'm out of this one.
 
I understand everone's point here but I'm going to offer a different opinion. I have a Wilson rep that comes to my club all of the time and he doesn't know much about paint jobs either. Wilson reps jobs are to sell Wilson products, when we see Sarena in a Magazine using an N1 looking racket people are going to think that is what racket she is using. We all know she is using something custom that will never be offered to the public so why would a Wilson rep say that any certain player isn't using what they say they are. That would be a bad business move I think. There are ethics in business, but business is also business and the bottom line is big businesses like Wilsons number one priority is to sell rackets and other tennis products. Just my opinion though.
 
I can see why you did what you did. To protect a man and his daughter from "accidently" (but purposely) buying a racquet based on what they hear from the retailer. BUT! I see the pro shop guy's angle as well. THIS GUY'S TRYING TO MAKE A BUCK! You said the guy was talking about the power of the racquets and who knows, maybe the father asked for a racquet that has a little more power than the rest for his daughter who can't seem to generate her own. but then again. Nobody died so lets just move on shall we?
 
Stuck said:
There are ethics in business, but business is also business and the bottom line is big businesses like Wilsons number one priority is to sell rackets and other tennis products. Just my opinion though.
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Not just opinion, that a fact of life.
 
The bottom line is that some people here are looking at it from the rep's point of view when they should be looking at it from the father/daughter point of view. After all, few if any of us here sell racquets, but all of us buy them.

Yes, the guy's trying to make a buck, but Wilson makes great racquets. His sales pitch should be based on the merits of the racquets, not on fictional accounts of the pros who use/don't use them.

Too many people want to blow of the whole PJ thing as not being a big deal but the reality is that it is a big deal. That's why racquet companies do it. They know that a customer thinking that they will be playing with the same racquet a pro uses can make or break the deal.

Nobody died, but lying, and the acceptance of deceit as common business practice, deteriorates the quality of life for everyone.

I'm going to bed now.
 
From the father/daughter's point of view, the Wilson rep is doing them a favor. The daughter wouldn't be able to handle a real pro's racquet. That's why Wilson sells the retail version to recreational players because that's a version we can actually handle, and they make a different version for the pros because a pro's game has very different demands. She may think she wants to use Serena's racquet, but she really doesn't. Nothing wrong with her satisfying her own ego by thinking she's using Serena's racquet if the one she's actually using is helping her game.

If Wilson only sold the actual pros' versions of racquets, their sales would drop by 99% because 99% of the tennis playing population wouldn't be able to handle the pros' racquets. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with paintjobs and wanting to use a pro's exact racquet with their exact set-up. Most of these same people wouldn't be able to handle it and would probably play worse with it than their current racquet. Come on, do they really think they would just magically play just like Federer if they could only get a hold of his actual racquet? Gimme a break!!! If it was that easy, every pro that depends on tennis to make a living would be using Federer's exact racquet!
 
need2paint said:
Nobody died, but lying, and the acceptance of deceit as common business practice, deteriorates the quality of life for everyone.
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"We didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the worlds were turning..."

"Quality of life?".... Since when does anyone have to listen to an anal retentive undiscipline kid interrupt and debate a Wilson's salesman a good racquet buying experience? "Quality of life", please mind your manners while I try and find the right racquet for my daughter.
 
I know that there are two sides to every story.

But, in the latest pictures published on this site, I'll be damned if I can see evidence of any Power Holes on Serena's frame. The grommets looked like regular grommets all the way around to me. And, when she got mad and broke her racket, it certainly didnt' take much of a swipe indicating that she probably does play with a lighter frame. And, someone did post here, or I read somewhere that the Williams play with frames that are very close to coming off the shelf.

A great deal of what is on these boards is conjecture; me included. The only problem I have with the exchange is the treating of conjecture as fact. I don't know for sure that either of the Williams play with a one-off frame. I've read before that the major difference betweent he mens' and womens' tour is the level of modification.

Had it been me, I'd have given the guy a break. If I felt strongly enough about the whole racket thing, I'd have said something to the dad (only) after they walked away. His daughter deserves to have her heroes.
 
I hope that, after the exchange you had with the rep, the prospective customers refused to make a purchase. I'd hate to see tennis become popular and successful!
 
I understand your motives, but it seems that you were a bit out of line. I wouldn't have tried to come across like an @$$ like you did.
 
Rabbit said:
I know that there are two sides to every story.

But, in the latest pictures published on this site, I'll be damned if I can see evidence of any Power Holes on Serena's frame. The grommets looked like regular grommets all the way around to me. And, when she got mad and broke her racket, it certainly didnt' take much of a swipe indicating that she probably does play with a lighter frame. And, someone did post here, or I read somewhere that the Williams play with frames that are very close to coming off the shelf.

A great deal of what is on these boards is conjecture; me included. The only problem I have with the exchange is the treating of conjecture as fact. I don't know for sure that either of the Williams play with a one-off frame. I've read before that the major difference betweent he mens' and womens' tour is the level of modification.

Had it been me, I'd have given the guy a break. If I felt strongly enough about the whole racket thing, I'd have said something to the dad (only) after they walked away. His daughter deserves to have her heroes.
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Speculating on powerholes' presence or not from grainy pictures you blow up from Getty images and "reliable sources" from internet message boards is fine on a forum like this, but not in the mentioned scenario. I wouldn't even tell a friend not to buy based on that information - the only really "inside information" on this site has come from the ESPN article, Nate's article in the archives, Jay Schweid's Tennis article and Thomas Martinez's posts. Again, even those, I would only mention to a fellow gearhead.
 
i think making sure the prospective customers knew the facts was a good idea, but there is a better way to go about it than making the wilson rep look like a fool. he is doing his job trying to make a living for he and his family.
 
need2paint said:
Andy,
You have nothing to apologize for. If anything, the Wilson rep should apologize to all the customers he has lied to. Lying is wrong regardless of why you do it.
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Word. He lied, period. Good for you.
 
wtennis206 said:
i think making sure the prospective customers knew the facts was a good idea, but there is a better way to go about it than making the wilson rep look like a fool. he is doing his job trying to make a living for he and his family.
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I'm sure this Wilson rep would be furious if he found out a used car salesman, or mortgage broker, or car mechanic lied to him in the name of making a living for his family. The ends don't justify the means. And maybe the next time you or your family is lied to you can take comfort in the fact that the poor guy who lied was only doing it to make a living for his family.
 
business is business, and people get lied to every day. wilson doesnt give serena a paintjob so they can tell everybody she really isnt using an Ncode, they use is as a marketing tool, and that isn't the reps fault.
 
I used to work as one half of a sales team - I was the trainer - the technical expert, and my partner the salesperson. Honest to God, many sales people I've met, my own rep included, have been employed because they know how to sell. They very often don't know anything about their product other than what they're told by their head office. Their business is to move product and in the many different fields that the reps I've met come from, a great many of them only want to know what they NEED to know in order to move their stock.

Is it right? Who can say. They just need to make budget. I have been witness to many situations though where someone who knows more than the rep feels compelled to either put them in their place, or protect the unsuspecting public from their wiley machinations.

And you know what? No-one really cares that much. You usually pi$$ off the sales rep and make yourself look like a loudmouthed nerd in the process.

What did you gain from saying what you said Andy? A sense of superiority? Satisfaction knowing that you "saved" a girl from maybe getting a new racquet to play tennis with? A warm feeling in your tummy from exposing to this father and child the evil lying conman that this sales rep was? How do you know he was being deceitful? Maybe he really didn't know. Anyone is going to try and save face when they're accosted while at work and accused of being either dishonest or just plain ignorant.

How would you feel if someone showed up when you were giving a presentation and derailed it by proclaiming to all and sundry that what you were saying was wrong?

So - I'm really curious. What did you gain from behaving the way you did?
 
need2paint said:
Andy,
You have nothing to apologize for. If anything, the Wilson rep should apologize to all the customers he has lied to. Lying is wrong regardless of why you do it.
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35ft6 said:
Word. He lied, period. Good for you.
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In that case, all parents are WRONG!!! There IS NOT SANTA CLAUS! All churches/synagogues/temples WRONG!!! There is NO GOD! LIARS!!!

Let the forest keep burning!

Anyhow, my basic point is that lying isn't wrong depending on the situation. People lie all the time. It's the intention and the outcome that determines whether or not telling that lie was a wrong doing.

With that said, what if that rep himself didn't know if Serena used a a stock stick or not and some guy comes up randomly and gives unwanted comments and ruins his sale? If Andy had to say something, he should have said it on the side and not in front of the kids face. You might as well go around during X'mas and tell all the kids in your neighborhood that Santa doesn't exist and tha their parents are liars. Nothing against you personally, but that action wasn't warranted for. Just out of curiosity, unless I get a racquet directly from Serena and analyze it, I wouldn't be too confident about saying something like that in front of the Wilson rep.
Cheers
 
Notice how all you guys are still arguing yet Andy hasn't posted once since the original thread. He's obviously the one who is just moving on.
 
The poor guy was just doing his job, he is probably like most people who love tennis and do not even know about paintjobs. He is just telling the people what he has been told by wilson, just like everyone else who isnt really really into tennis
 
any rep who is half decent knows that what pros play with is not available to the public. it's wrong to tell people otherwise. just like paintjobs. it's lying. Andy had the right intention but was a little enthusiastic about it. i hate it when i go into a tennis store and i'm looking at a racquet like the NXG and the guy working there says "Coria and Ferrero used to use this racquet" when I know that's not true.
 
A job is never 'just' a job and Im very sure the rep could have made the products sound just as good if he hadn't lost himself in the 'pitch'. It does come down to a matter of ethics and they don't reflect ones I'd be happy adopting.

However, going out of your way - butting-in is going out of your way- to show the fellow up is just terrible manners. If the reps 'information' is troubling to you and really think it might in some way influence the decision of the couple you mentioned then quietly approach them and set things straight. None of your business at all but, if you must do it, then it's easily done without all of the fuss, bother and belittling of another person.
 
Down_the_line said:
Notice how all you guys are still arguing yet Andy hasn't posted once since the original thread. He's obviously the one who is just moving on.
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Yeah moved on from the feeble Wilson sales rep to the CEO of Wilson Sporting goods. Right now Andy is sitting in the CEO's office complaining to him about the travesty of pros and paintjobs. He's been so persuasive that not only has he got that petty sales rep fired, but Wilson also decided to make Fed use a real nCode 6.1. Not liking this decision, Fed has just decided to move over to Prince and use the Ozone Warrior 90. You heard it here first.
 
Andy Zarzuela said:
I was in a tennis shop tent today during the rain delay at Amelia Island and I saw a guy in one of the tents BSing the mess out of this poor man and his daughter that were innocently inquiring about racquets. He picked up an n3 and said this is exactly what Serena is using, because she wants maximum power. I couldn't resist. I said "Ok, then why does Serena have powerholes on top of her frame huh?" He sneered at me for perhaps making is potential buyers skeptical....he said that "Serena has her powerholes drilled in." He said that the stock n3 has powerholes as well. Then I mentioned " But Serena has them at both 3 and 9 and 12 o'clock".Likhovtseva just happened to just got done playing and he picked up an Nsix-one 95 and he's like, Likhovtseva uses this exact racquet, and she can hit the ball nearly as hard as Serena... blah blah blah. Again, I couldn't resist, I said "then why does she have a denser stringing pattern" then it was then I realized that Wilson recently released a denser version, but we all know she doesn't use that. That makes me mad how they just market racquets like this. He mentioned how all the touring pros have their own customization that Wilson provides for them in their pro room; however, why is it before I even mentioned my skepticality...he said these frames were exactly what Serena Williams or Elena Likhovtseva, and Lindsay Davenport use! So after that paintjob coverup story, even if it was true, it still NOT THE SAME EXACT RACQUET AS IS IN STORES! It's just makes me mad! I just had to vent!! Thanks for reading!
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Ooh, I hope you are proud of yourself. You "showed up" and obviously clueless guy, right in the middle of his job. Why, oh why would you do that? Just give me one reason...
 
i think you should have just whispered to the 2 customers instead. you did a good thing in a rude way.(i don't mean to offend you so sorry if i did)
 
TennisD said:
Ooh, I hope you are proud of yourself. You "showed up" and obviously clueless guy, right in the middle of his job. Why, oh why would you do that? Just give me one reason...
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If his responses are any indication, the rep seemed to have been willfully deceptive. If he truly believed it was Serena's racket, he would have said "what are you talking about? I can show you a picture..." etc.

I always love it when consumer watchdog groups do those undercover investigations of businesses using deceptive techniques to rip people off. I know all businesses try to mislead people and a point of advertising is to psychologically blackmail people into believing they absolutely need a product that fulfills a function they were never even aware of, but we live in a gray world aside, I wouldn't mind everybody being a little bit more honest. I understand lying is in many ways essential to keep people from killing each other, but I sort of draw the line when a financial transaction is involved. I think the consumer's right to hear a truthful description of what she/he's spending his/her money on trumps the seller's desire to make money. Fug yay.
 
raftermania said:
Yeah moved on from the feeble Wilson sales rep to the CEO of Wilson Sporting goods. Right now Andy is sitting in the CEO's office complaining to him about the travesty of pros and paintjobs. He's been so persuasive that not only has he got that petty sales rep fired, but Wilson also decided to make Fed use a real nCode 6.1. Not liking this decision, Fed has just decided to move over to Prince and use the Ozone Warrior 90. You heard it here first.
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as a matter of fact you heard wrong. he now uses a POG, painted to look like an Ozone Warrior 90.
 
I'm not sure what to think... it seems like you robbed that man of his dignity...seems very harsh.
 
Personally I think that you did the correct thing but not in the correct fashion. I don't think it would be very kind if someone walked up to my workplace and said that all my products are falsely advertised. It would be very kind if you went back to that Pro Shop and apologized for your rash behavior to the salesperson.

I understand lying is in many ways essential to keep people from killing each other, but I sort of draw the line when a financial transaction is involved.
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That is why the CEOs of Wilson Sports are millionaires and you are not. The world is not built on trust, honesty, or honor. It is built on money, and that is what the Sales Representative was trying to get.
 
andy thinks he's owned a lieing and conniving salesman.
the salesman must think how badly he wants to shove the n1 up andy's ass.
the dad's probably like, what a f-ing nerd!
the little girls scared sh!tless by this overgrown excuse of a man d!cking this other guy about a "paintjob" at her most likely first ever tennis event. the girl will probably tell her dad she wants to play some poker instead.

this really hurts tennis. if there aren't paintjobs then how will these racket companies fund their racket division. i'm pretty sure big companies like wilson would much rather put this money to developing shoes or basketball equipment if they weren't profiting from tennis.
 
fishuuuuu said:
Personally I think that you did the correct thing but not in the correct fashion. I don't think it would be very kind if someone walked up to my workplace and said that all my products are falsely advertised. It would be very kind if you went back to that Pro Shop and apologized for your rash behavior to the salesperson.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with statement and it's pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
 
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