I showed the Wilson rep up!! haha
- Thread starter Andy Zarzuela
- Start date
Deuce
Banned
Firstly – Andy, you did the right thing. The sales rep was trying to take advantage of and exploit the naivete of the consumers for his own gain - and you called him on it. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Secondly - to those who claim that the sales rep likely knew nothing of paint jobs – that’s ridiculous. They all know – especially ones who work for the big companies like Wilson. They certainly have a responsibility to know. The way Andy described the sales rep’s frustration at Andy’s questions rather strongly suggest that he knew the truth, and was trying to get away with a lie.
“Business is business” – Translation: “If you have to take advantage of people and lie to help sell something then it’s ok to lie and take advantage”.
Until someone does it to YOU - huh?
So, it’s OK for a sales rep to shovel the BS to naïve customers, likely laughing on the inside about their ignorance… but it’s NOT ok for a kid to try to inject some honesty into the equation and hold the rep accountable for the wool he’s trying to pull over customers’ eyes?
It’s rather mind-boggling that being honest and truthful is considered rude and obnoxious, while deliberate deceit is not.
And it's quite disturbing how many people are defending dishonesty in this thread, and condemning truth. As if just because many people - perhaps even the majority - perform a certain action, it inherently makes the action ‘right’. How simple-minded is THAT?
Talk about living with low standards… No wonder this planet’s in the sorry state it’s in.
All is not lost, though. At least SOME show a healthy perspective:
Need2paint wrote:
“Nobody died, but lying, and the acceptance of deceit as common business practice, deteriorates the quality of life for everyone.”
35ft6 wrote:
“I'm sure this Wilson rep would be furious if he found out a used car salesman, or mortgage broker, or car mechanic lied to him in the name of making a living for his family. The ends don't justify the means. And maybe the next time you or your family is lied to you can take comfort in the fact that the poor guy who lied was only doing it to make a living for his family.”
“It's strange that so many people are defending Wilson and this sales rep, people who would otherwise be pissed if they were so blatantly lied to by somebody trying to sell them something. Oh well. I bet if I went to a car message board I could probably expect to read some car salesmen defending lying to prospective buyers in order to sell cars, because, you know, they have to feed their families.”
wtennis206 wrote:
“this is why it's a bad idea to put sales reps on commission...”
Good stuff, guys.
Secondly - to those who claim that the sales rep likely knew nothing of paint jobs – that’s ridiculous. They all know – especially ones who work for the big companies like Wilson. They certainly have a responsibility to know. The way Andy described the sales rep’s frustration at Andy’s questions rather strongly suggest that he knew the truth, and was trying to get away with a lie.
“Business is business” – Translation: “If you have to take advantage of people and lie to help sell something then it’s ok to lie and take advantage”.
Until someone does it to YOU - huh?
So, it’s OK for a sales rep to shovel the BS to naïve customers, likely laughing on the inside about their ignorance… but it’s NOT ok for a kid to try to inject some honesty into the equation and hold the rep accountable for the wool he’s trying to pull over customers’ eyes?
It’s rather mind-boggling that being honest and truthful is considered rude and obnoxious, while deliberate deceit is not.
And it's quite disturbing how many people are defending dishonesty in this thread, and condemning truth. As if just because many people - perhaps even the majority - perform a certain action, it inherently makes the action ‘right’. How simple-minded is THAT?
Talk about living with low standards… No wonder this planet’s in the sorry state it’s in.
All is not lost, though. At least SOME show a healthy perspective:
Need2paint wrote:
“Nobody died, but lying, and the acceptance of deceit as common business practice, deteriorates the quality of life for everyone.”
35ft6 wrote:
“I'm sure this Wilson rep would be furious if he found out a used car salesman, or mortgage broker, or car mechanic lied to him in the name of making a living for his family. The ends don't justify the means. And maybe the next time you or your family is lied to you can take comfort in the fact that the poor guy who lied was only doing it to make a living for his family.”
“It's strange that so many people are defending Wilson and this sales rep, people who would otherwise be pissed if they were so blatantly lied to by somebody trying to sell them something. Oh well. I bet if I went to a car message board I could probably expect to read some car salesmen defending lying to prospective buyers in order to sell cars, because, you know, they have to feed their families.”
wtennis206 wrote:
“this is why it's a bad idea to put sales reps on commission...”
Good stuff, guys.
35ft6
Legend
Yeah, mine's turned around 360, too, that is to say: it hasn't changed.raftermania said:
I've been playing tennis for 15 years, and I didn't know until I discovered this board that such a thing as paintjobs existed. I told some tennis playing friends of mine about PJ's and they were shocked. Not outraged, but definitely surprised.
To my knowledge, you can't call up TW and negotiate a lower price on a racket. Let's put it this way, TW isn't going to quote two people two completely different prices on the same racket within minutes of the other just because they think person A is less knowledgeable about tennis than person B.
Dude, you may be one of the honest ones, but used car salesman are notoriously shady. Car salesman in general are pretty nuts. When I bought my first car I carefully examined what I was about to purchase and discovered a bunch of stuff I explicitly said I didn't want (theft insurance?). I've heard that this is unwritten standard policy to tack on worthless ****. Oh well. Compared to credit card companies, pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, and politics, car salesman are fine by me.
Semantics.
NBMJ: i'm afraid behaviour like that isnt going to get you very far in life kid (i assume you are a kid, not that it justifies your behaviour). i think you should go back to the Wilson booth on the morrow, seek out the Wilson rep and very politely and humbly apologize for your inappropriate behaviour this day.
He should go to the "bariga" and apologize?
He should go to the "bariga" and apologize?
Everyones so stupid for saying what Andy did was wrong. Have any of ya really had to work hard for money before? 250 for a racquet is no joke. Dont pull that bullsh*t saying what he did was wrong because the fact is that the wilson rep is lying through his teeth. Andy has everyright to tell them the truth. How would you like if you bought something thinking your idol used it and the found out it was all a marketing scam?
Btw Andy all those old fokes hating on you are just thinking about it from the business point of view. All they care about is money and have no moral.
Btw Andy all those old fokes hating on you are just thinking about it from the business point of view. All they care about is money and have no moral.
C
csmith82177
Guest
Let me ask a question to all the morally outraged among us about the rackets in question. When is it not considered the same racket? A different grip? Adding an overgrip? Different String? Different holed drilled in the frame? Weighted Tape? A different Frame material but the exact same other specifications? What is Serena took the EXACT SAME racket the rep was holding and added: A different grip, different string, weighted tape, different vibration dampener, and then painted the whole frame white, over all the labels, with a paintbrush she held in her hand. Would it be the same racket? What if Wilson did it?
At what point in the customization process does the rep begin to lie when he says it's the same racket?
At what point in the customization process does the rep begin to lie when he says it's the same racket?
oh so that is my report Rulik...well based upon Andy's report, that is exactly what he should have done..learned to be quiet instead of do what he did and not then brag about it and laugh on the TW forum..he came off as a punk kid. ...it's not what he did that is the problem, it is the way he did it, and then to brag about it afterwards..based upon what he posted , he should seek out the wilson rep and apologize for being a rude person...andy changed and recanted his story as this thread developed...i think that is what people are missing..but it's cool..think what you like..i really dont care
tennissavy
Hall of Fame
I have to take issue with Serena's frame. Her racquet has a different string pattern(denser) than the 6.2, H6... A denser string pattern makes some difference in how the racquet will play. The biggest difference between her racquet(which during her grand slam winnings was the 6.4 just re-painted) and the racquets she was promoting was the powerholes. I have the 6.4 and the powerholes greatly enlarge the sweetspot making it so forgiving that you have to hit the ball with the frame, no strings, for it to be a bad hit. That is quite a difference from the 6.3, 6.2, H6... which do not have powerholes. Also, the long slots are called powerholes because they create a trampoline effect sending the ball deeper in the court with less effort. The denser string pattern and moderate stiffness limit the trampoline effect which you can also further adjust with string tension. Her racquet was so different from what the public was lead to believe that it was dishonest to push it as her exact racquet. The issue of customizing it with additional weight is also something that the racquet companies should not try to hide from the public.csmith82177 said:
chad shaver
Semi-Pro
NoBadMojo,
Let's mark it on our calendars: I agree with you. What's this world coming to?
Let's mark it on our calendars: I agree with you. What's this world coming to?
Andy Zarzuela
Professional
NoBadMojo said:
To be honest, I was not rude. In fact, the Wilson rep later helped me pick out a replacement grip for one of my racquets.
tennissavy
Hall of Fame
Andy,
I think you did the right thing. It is dishonest to claim those off the shelf sticks are the same as Serena's. With that being said, do you still have the 6.4 oversize with powerholes demo? Would you be willing to sell it to me? I have 3 and would like another spare.
I think you did the right thing. It is dishonest to claim those off the shelf sticks are the same as Serena's. With that being said, do you still have the 6.4 oversize with powerholes demo? Would you be willing to sell it to me? I have 3 and would like another spare.
Andy I suggest you reread your own posts starting with the title of your thread which sez .."I showed the Wilson rep up ha ha!" or some such thing..that speaks volumes and sets a really bad tenor for things to follow..but if you dont get it, then you dont get it, so pointless to discuss. i think we do have a serious generational gap here, and i'm happy to be from the older one where you dont seek out ways to slam other people and then find ways to brag about it. my .o2
wow
Not to make this post any longer but......
I think everyone made valid points. No matter what he had done, someone would have been hurt. He did what he felt was right, I don't see much more need to say "you should have you could have" since nothing can be done to change what is already passed.
I am also surprised this post has gone on for so long. The amount of side conversations and hostilities popping up has astonished me. For anyone that is feeling ......... emotional attached if you will, to this post, should take a step back and agree to disagree. I think if anyone has something not DIRECTLY related to this immediate subject, a separate thread should be created (perhaps some better suited for the Rants and Raves section) so that the topic of choosing can be then fully developed to its maximum potential.
Lets remember that this forum is a place to learn and discuss in a civil manor; nothing will be achieved with malicious intentions.
-Cameron
Not to make this post any longer but......
I think everyone made valid points. No matter what he had done, someone would have been hurt. He did what he felt was right, I don't see much more need to say "you should have you could have" since nothing can be done to change what is already passed.
I am also surprised this post has gone on for so long. The amount of side conversations and hostilities popping up has astonished me. For anyone that is feeling ......... emotional attached if you will, to this post, should take a step back and agree to disagree. I think if anyone has something not DIRECTLY related to this immediate subject, a separate thread should be created (perhaps some better suited for the Rants and Raves section) so that the topic of choosing can be then fully developed to its maximum potential.
Lets remember that this forum is a place to learn and discuss in a civil manor; nothing will be achieved with malicious intentions.
-Cameron
tennissavy
Hall of Fame
Very well said. I tell you, I have been attacked on other threads for expressing my views. It is truly unreasonable for some people to make this message board a means to bite others who have views that differ.camhabib said:
Lets remember that this forum is a place to learn and discuss in a civil manor; nothing will be achieved with malicious intentions.
I agree, the wilson guy was stretching the truth, but andy, you should have waited till the coast was clear and then had a quiet word in the rep's ear, all you probably did was crush a little kids dream of playing with the racquet her idol uses. By the way, what racquets do you use, and have you ever been influenced to buy a racquet because of what a pro is using?
Jeez, big deal. The wilson rep shouldnt be lying to make a sale. I really dont understand why people on here are getting so upset. If the pros dont use the racket, then the rep shouldnt pass it off that they do. Big deal, I say bravo for calling the guy out on his BS! If the wilson rep wasnt one of you guys, chill out.
I really didnt read the whole post but did read the first post by the thred starter. I guess its up to him weather or not to questions someones marketing techniques. But I know you wouldnt like someone to come into your buisness and tell you other wise. It might not be the same but hey its close enough. I know that their are customers out their that buy based on the player basis, but come on anyone half their weight in tennis knows its not the racquet....that makes the player.-Pdang
verdasco67
Professional
such a long thread!
dennis1188
Semi-Pro
Yeah! 'such a long thread'. You only hv to look at a well known web-site to find the same references to same pro-players using rackets (they do not use).
gregraven
Semi-Pro
Andy Zarzuela said:
Okay. I was going by what you wrote, which was, "I was in a tennis shop tent today during the rain delay at Amelia Island and I saw a guy in one of the tents BSing the mess out of this poor man and his daughter that were innocently inquiring about racquets."
If your statement to me is correct, then the Wilson sales rep was not BSing most -- if not the vast majority -- of the assembled throng. Even so, you were able to detect that this particular father and daughter were being lied to.
Your correction notwithstanding, I'll bet you've never inspected any of Serena's racquets, and that you don't know if in fact Serena had ever played with the racquet the Wilson rep was discussing. Furthermore, I'm still awaiting your barrage of caveats -- directed toward potential customers of Tennis Warehouse -- about pros not actually playing the racquets they are said to use, given what must be comprehensive knowledge on your part about pros, the equipment each has tried, and the equipment each is using and has ever used in the past.
jediknightdan
New User
man you are a ass
Deuce
Banned
You're really reaching to defend the sales rep here, greg...
"What if Serena really did use the stock racquet - if even for only 5 minutes one day 5 months ago?"
The fact is that BS is a language sales reps know extremely well. If, every so often, someone has the balls to call them on it, then more power to them. If more people did what Andy did, there would be less BS on the planet - and that would be fine by me.
"What if Serena really did use the stock racquet - if even for only 5 minutes one day 5 months ago?"
The fact is that BS is a language sales reps know extremely well. If, every so often, someone has the balls to call them on it, then more power to them. If more people did what Andy did, there would be less BS on the planet - and that would be fine by me.
gregraven
Semi-Pro
I'm not so much defending the Wilson rep as decrying the apparently immature manner in which our self-proclaimed pro equipment expert attempted to embarrass another person in public. As far as I can tell, the original poster has no independent knowledge about Serena or her equipment. For him to consider himself an expert based on a photo is inexcusible. Fighting BS with BS is no way to reduce BS!
"Paint job" racquets do cause a problem, in that while they are probably perceived as advertising from the FTC's point of view, from the POV of the knowledgeable consumer, it seems to be a deceptive practice. However, I've seen several instances where knowledgeable fans of a product are far better informed than salespersons who are "just doing a job" representing this product. All you need to do to check this for yourself is to spend a couple hours researching automobiles on the various manufacturer's websites, and then call around to dealerships and start asking questions. In my experience, you'll be lucky to find any salesperson who is as familiar with the product as you as an informed consumer can become via readily-available information.
I am also trying to point out that the Wilson rep may not have been lying, per se, if for no other reason than he may have had no idea as to the factual content of his statements. I can't imagine that at the rep meeting, the Wilson sales and marketing overloads tell their reps, "Player A doesn't really use this racquet, but you're all to spread the word that he does." More likely, the reps see the same sales and marketing photos and press releases seen by the rest of us, and it is good enough for them.
I may be a bit touchy on this because there are so many threads about what equipment the pros really use, with opinions-stated-as-fact from all points of the compass from persons who apparently have never handled the racquet in question, let alone measured it.
Finally, I fail to see the difference between the "false" claim of pro equipment use by the Wilson rep, and similar claims right here on the TW site. Those who find these "false" claims to so offensive are free to go elsewhere, yet, they each wind up here. Hmmm.
"Paint job" racquets do cause a problem, in that while they are probably perceived as advertising from the FTC's point of view, from the POV of the knowledgeable consumer, it seems to be a deceptive practice. However, I've seen several instances where knowledgeable fans of a product are far better informed than salespersons who are "just doing a job" representing this product. All you need to do to check this for yourself is to spend a couple hours researching automobiles on the various manufacturer's websites, and then call around to dealerships and start asking questions. In my experience, you'll be lucky to find any salesperson who is as familiar with the product as you as an informed consumer can become via readily-available information.
I am also trying to point out that the Wilson rep may not have been lying, per se, if for no other reason than he may have had no idea as to the factual content of his statements. I can't imagine that at the rep meeting, the Wilson sales and marketing overloads tell their reps, "Player A doesn't really use this racquet, but you're all to spread the word that he does." More likely, the reps see the same sales and marketing photos and press releases seen by the rest of us, and it is good enough for them.
I may be a bit touchy on this because there are so many threads about what equipment the pros really use, with opinions-stated-as-fact from all points of the compass from persons who apparently have never handled the racquet in question, let alone measured it.
Finally, I fail to see the difference between the "false" claim of pro equipment use by the Wilson rep, and similar claims right here on the TW site. Those who find these "false" claims to so offensive are free to go elsewhere, yet, they each wind up here. Hmmm.
Deuce
Banned
gregraven wrote:
I'm not so much defending the Wilson rep as decrying the apparently immature manner in which our self-proclaimed pro equipment expert attempted to embarrass another person in public. As far as I can tell, the original poster has no independent knowledge about Serena or her equipment. For him to consider himself an expert based on a photo is inexcusible. Fighting BS with BS is no way to reduce BS!
If you view Andy's approach as being somewhat 'immature', perhaps this is owing to him being a kid. Personally, I didn't find his approach to be immature - perhaps his original post in this thread was somewhat immature - but not his action with the sales rep, based on his description here.
"Paint job" racquets do cause a problem, in that while they are probably perceived as advertising from the FTC's point of view, from the POV of the knowledgeable consumer, it seems to be a deceptive practice. However, I've seen several instances where knowledgeable fans of a product are far better informed than salespersons who are "just doing a job" representing this product. All you need to do to check this for yourself is to spend a couple hours researching automobiles on the various manufacturer's websites, and then call around to dealerships and start asking questions. In my experience, you'll be lucky to find any salesperson who is as familiar with the product as you as an informed consumer can become via readily-available information.
I agree. I almost always find myself in possession of greater knowledge on a subject/product than are those who are assigned to 'assist' me. As such, I rarely, if ever, ask for assistance. And I agree that people should do their own research and gain knowledge - if only to arm themselves against the ignorance and dishonesty of salespeople. However, a lack of knowledge is not an excuse to dispense false and inaccurate information. Further, it is the responsibility of the salesperson (sales rep) to know their product. If they do not, they are in no way justified in passing along their ignorance to the naive consumer. The consumer's ignorance - even if voluntary - is no justification for the salesperson to dispense false information - be it through his/her own ignorance, or through deliberate dishonesty.
I am also trying to point out that the Wilson rep may not have been lying, per se, if for no other reason than he may have had no idea as to the factual content of his statements. I can't imagine that at the rep meeting, the Wilson sales and marketing overloads tell their reps, "Player A doesn't really use this racquet, but you're all to spread the word that he does." More likely, the reps see the same sales and marketing photos and press releases seen by the rest of us, and it is good enough for them.
A sales rep for a major racquet company is very likely also a strong tennis fan, and not merely a casual observer of the game. He/she must possess a knowlege of the different shots of the game, for instance, to avoid potentially embarrassing situations when in discussion with prospective consumers about various tennis products like racquets and strings. i have yet to meet, or even hear of, a sales rep for a major racquet company who was sincerely oblivious to 'paint jobs'.
I may be a bit touchy on this because there are so many threads about what equipment the pros really use, with opinions-stated-as-fact from all points of the compass from persons who apparently have never handled the racquet in question, let alone measured it.
Finally, I fail to see the difference between the "false" claim of pro equipment use by the Wilson rep, and similar claims right here on the TW site. Those who find these "false" claims to so offensive are free to go elsewhere, yet, they each wind up here. Hmmm.
Yes, we "wind up here" - and one thing we do here is openly discuss 'paint jobs', and call the racquet companies on their very deliberate deceit and dishonesty. I could see your last point if 'we' came here and kept silent about the 'paint job' issue because of fear of reprimand by TW, or some such. But we are free to express even opinions which reflect poorly on TW here - which is how it ought to be in any environment which claims a significant degree of democratic rule. Personally, I don't take up the issue with TW of their role in the false advertising simply because I don't feel I'd get an openly honest response from TW - at least not publicly, because that would very likely be a violation of their contract with the devils (the racquet companies). I know that the folks at TW know that they're participating in a deliberate deception, and the folks at TW know that most of us know, as well. It would be nice if they would cease this practice in favor of a more honest approach. But that option unfortunately doesn't exist for them if they wish to continue to buy racquets from these racquet companies - thus, the contract with the devils. That we are able to here express perspectives such as that which I have just expressed is a good thing. And this is basically what Andy did.
I'm not so much defending the Wilson rep as decrying the apparently immature manner in which our self-proclaimed pro equipment expert attempted to embarrass another person in public. As far as I can tell, the original poster has no independent knowledge about Serena or her equipment. For him to consider himself an expert based on a photo is inexcusible. Fighting BS with BS is no way to reduce BS!
If you view Andy's approach as being somewhat 'immature', perhaps this is owing to him being a kid. Personally, I didn't find his approach to be immature - perhaps his original post in this thread was somewhat immature - but not his action with the sales rep, based on his description here.
"Paint job" racquets do cause a problem, in that while they are probably perceived as advertising from the FTC's point of view, from the POV of the knowledgeable consumer, it seems to be a deceptive practice. However, I've seen several instances where knowledgeable fans of a product are far better informed than salespersons who are "just doing a job" representing this product. All you need to do to check this for yourself is to spend a couple hours researching automobiles on the various manufacturer's websites, and then call around to dealerships and start asking questions. In my experience, you'll be lucky to find any salesperson who is as familiar with the product as you as an informed consumer can become via readily-available information.
I agree. I almost always find myself in possession of greater knowledge on a subject/product than are those who are assigned to 'assist' me. As such, I rarely, if ever, ask for assistance. And I agree that people should do their own research and gain knowledge - if only to arm themselves against the ignorance and dishonesty of salespeople. However, a lack of knowledge is not an excuse to dispense false and inaccurate information. Further, it is the responsibility of the salesperson (sales rep) to know their product. If they do not, they are in no way justified in passing along their ignorance to the naive consumer. The consumer's ignorance - even if voluntary - is no justification for the salesperson to dispense false information - be it through his/her own ignorance, or through deliberate dishonesty.
I am also trying to point out that the Wilson rep may not have been lying, per se, if for no other reason than he may have had no idea as to the factual content of his statements. I can't imagine that at the rep meeting, the Wilson sales and marketing overloads tell their reps, "Player A doesn't really use this racquet, but you're all to spread the word that he does." More likely, the reps see the same sales and marketing photos and press releases seen by the rest of us, and it is good enough for them.
A sales rep for a major racquet company is very likely also a strong tennis fan, and not merely a casual observer of the game. He/she must possess a knowlege of the different shots of the game, for instance, to avoid potentially embarrassing situations when in discussion with prospective consumers about various tennis products like racquets and strings. i have yet to meet, or even hear of, a sales rep for a major racquet company who was sincerely oblivious to 'paint jobs'.
I may be a bit touchy on this because there are so many threads about what equipment the pros really use, with opinions-stated-as-fact from all points of the compass from persons who apparently have never handled the racquet in question, let alone measured it.
Finally, I fail to see the difference between the "false" claim of pro equipment use by the Wilson rep, and similar claims right here on the TW site. Those who find these "false" claims to so offensive are free to go elsewhere, yet, they each wind up here. Hmmm.
Yes, we "wind up here" - and one thing we do here is openly discuss 'paint jobs', and call the racquet companies on their very deliberate deceit and dishonesty. I could see your last point if 'we' came here and kept silent about the 'paint job' issue because of fear of reprimand by TW, or some such. But we are free to express even opinions which reflect poorly on TW here - which is how it ought to be in any environment which claims a significant degree of democratic rule. Personally, I don't take up the issue with TW of their role in the false advertising simply because I don't feel I'd get an openly honest response from TW - at least not publicly, because that would very likely be a violation of their contract with the devils (the racquet companies). I know that the folks at TW know that they're participating in a deliberate deception, and the folks at TW know that most of us know, as well. It would be nice if they would cease this practice in favor of a more honest approach. But that option unfortunately doesn't exist for them if they wish to continue to buy racquets from these racquet companies - thus, the contract with the devils. That we are able to here express perspectives such as that which I have just expressed is a good thing. And this is basically what Andy did.
gregraven
Semi-Pro
Two small points: First, if the rep didn't know it was false information, then he wasn't lying, and wasn't in a position to know it was false information. Second, I've known lots of reps for different products, and the vast majority are not fanatics about the product. In the case of tennis, you have to get to the guys actually working with the players to find out what equipment is being supplied and/or used. Didn't the top dog at Wilson make an utterly false statement about Federer's racquets about a year or so ago? He was in a position to know better, but he didn't for whatever reason.
need2paint
Rookie
gregraven said:
Greg,
Your argument is basically that all sales reps are ignorant, so that makes it okay for them to be ignorant. Is that what you're saying?
Is it okay for a Toyota salesman to tell me the Tercel goes 0-60 in 5 seconds because he is ignorant of the real performance figures?
Furthermore, (and this has already been mentioned several times) the sales rep in question admitted that he knew about Wilson's pro customizing program. Though he only mentioned it after Andy's interrogation. This did not sttop him from telling the girl earlier that it was the exact same racket Serena uses.
Your argument does not make sense and you know it. The reason this thread has not died is because some people don't want to admit they are wrong even though they know they are.
Deuce,
Thank you for your posts on this thread. You have expressed my thoughts on this matter more eloquently than I could have.
dennis1188
Semi-Pro
Look again at the wording and attitude of the original thread/title, I realized this is just a example of 'two wrongs not making a right'. Seems more about 'attitude' rather than substance. Just looking for another opportunity to get into someone else's face.
Deuce
Banned
need2paint - I appreciate the compliment, but I was merely following your excellent lead on this issue.
I also recognize the significance of your valuing honesty above dishonesty, and one's right to be told the truth above one's 'right' to make a living at any cost.
Some posters in this thread ought to be genuinely ashamed of how they have blatantly condemned honesty and defended dishonesty.
I also recognize the significance of your valuing honesty above dishonesty, and one's right to be told the truth above one's 'right' to make a living at any cost.
Some posters in this thread ought to be genuinely ashamed of how they have blatantly condemned honesty and defended dishonesty.
gregraven
Semi-Pro
equinox said:
Gee, thanks for the baseless personal attack. You must feel very good about your position if you feel you must stoop to libel to support it!
If you had actually read my post (with an understanding of the English language), you would know my position is that none of us has any idea whether the Wilson rep was lying, because we don't know what he knew at the time. Also, I'm not excusing his ignorance, but rather pointing out that there is plenty of ignorance on the part of those representing products, so singling out one rep is naive and immature.
Also, I am not making excuses for the Wilson rep, just trying to provide context. Serena might have used that racquet. Heck, I've seen video of her promoting nCode racquets, including shots of her swinging a racquet that is indistinguishable from a retail nCode racquet. Federer, Venus, and many other pros also appear on these videos promoting nCode racquets. Are we to stop watching tennis because these pros might be lying?
As for the Wilson Pro Room, I do know about it -- I am the one who wrote the article about it! I also know that the guys in the pro room do everything in their power to get pros to use off-the-shelf or minimally-modified racquets, if for no other reason that they simply can't spend all day making custom racquets.
Finally, if this issue really bugs you, the rep is the wrong person to beat up on. You need to contact Congress, and have them re-write the rules by which the FTC operates. I checked, and according to the FTC, Serena's Wilson endorsement means she endorses Wilson racquets as a group, not just one specific racquet. That's why when you go to the "big box" stores, you'll see 21-inch Federer racquets and the like.
35ft6
Legend
This is what Andy said happened:gregraven said:
So...
... if you still think it's likely the sales rep didn't know, you may be the naive one. Either that of you live in a part of the world where human behavior is completely unpredictable, because in my mind if the rep didn't know about paintjobs he would have responded with a sincere "what are you talking about? of course it's her racket! look at this picture."
You're trying to provide context by conjuring up a complete hypothetical? Or are you suggesting that if she ever once played with it, if even for a minute, than Wilson is not misleading the public?
Don't believe everything you see.
I saw one with all three in it and it's totally irrelevant. It's just another manifestation of the same deception.
Also, I've seen that commercial and I doubt all three were ever in the same room. Seriously, the whole advertising industry is one of misdirection, exaggeration, emotional blackmail, and sometimes outright lies. Paintjobs falls under the outright lies category. Worse than implying that Tiger Woods drives an Oldsmobile, or that George Foreman is objective when it comes to recommending where to go to get a cheap muffler.
Complete non sequitor.
This is like saying if getting robbed bugs you, don't blame the criminal, but go talk to somebody at the police station. I think it's completely appropriate to blame the Wilson rep.
B
baselinebasher
Guest
wilsons just trying to make money, i dont blame them...
B
baselinebasher
Guest
oops...wrong thread lol... stop bringing up this stupid subject...
Jack the Hack
Hall of Fame
Reading this thread reminds me of a personal experience:
The summer before my senior year in high school, I went to a tennis camp for a couple weeks. During the camp, I kept having issues with this one instructor who was teaching things that were obviously wrong (in my opinion). In one session, he was teaching everyone to hit forehand volleys with a western grip, and switch to an eastern grip for backhands. In front of the whole class, I told him that this was BS and that he should be teaching people to hit volleys with a continental grip. He got red faced and replied that he was teaching us to play like Bjorn Borg, "the greatest player ever." We then started arguing about whether Borg actually used a western grip on the volley, and I eventually got him so p!ssed, he walked off for about 10 minutes.
Gee, what a stud I was for embarrassing this guy in front of the class.
Was I right about the volley technique? Probably. Was it right to question him in front of everyone like that? Absolutely not!
In your case, did the Wilson rep have all his facts straight about the various racquets? Probably not. However, I know this may be hard to believe, but not everyone that works for Wilson (or any other sporting goods manufacturer) really cares to learn the details like a racquet geek (who spends all day posting on TW ) would. Likely, this guy was given some overview sales training on the various racquets and was told which frames were associated with which pro. He's probably never seen Serena's or any other pro's actual racquet, nor really knows the details about their customizations. He not necessarily a lying, unethical slug... but just a guy trying to do his job with the information he was given.
If you really had that much of a beef with what he was saying, it would have been a better approach to talk to this guy one on one after the others had left. That way, you could have had a more technical discussion and he could have saved some face. Embarassing him in front of others makes you both look bad, and nobody "wins". Besides, it's not as if he was trying to sell a cr@ppy product - Wilson makes d@mn good racquets! (Even the ones right off the production line!)
Anyway, I learned my lesson well at that tennis camp...
As it turned out, I ended up going undefeated during the camp, and won the tournament they had at the end of the session. However, at the awards ceremony, when they gave out the trophy for the camp's "Most Outstanding Player", they gave it to the guy I beat in the final 6-2, 6-0. At the time, I was crushed (it was a nice trophy and I really wanted it) and when I inquired about why I didn't win it with the undefeated record, the camp director told me that it was because I had a horrible attitude and none of the instructors backed me up for the award. Thankfully, that experience helped me to curb my punk ways and I became a more solid citizen.
(You might want to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It's an old book, but good advice for this type of stuff.)
The summer before my senior year in high school, I went to a tennis camp for a couple weeks. During the camp, I kept having issues with this one instructor who was teaching things that were obviously wrong (in my opinion). In one session, he was teaching everyone to hit forehand volleys with a western grip, and switch to an eastern grip for backhands. In front of the whole class, I told him that this was BS and that he should be teaching people to hit volleys with a continental grip. He got red faced and replied that he was teaching us to play like Bjorn Borg, "the greatest player ever." We then started arguing about whether Borg actually used a western grip on the volley, and I eventually got him so p!ssed, he walked off for about 10 minutes.
Gee, what a stud I was for embarrassing this guy in front of the class.
Was I right about the volley technique? Probably. Was it right to question him in front of everyone like that? Absolutely not!
In your case, did the Wilson rep have all his facts straight about the various racquets? Probably not. However, I know this may be hard to believe, but not everyone that works for Wilson (or any other sporting goods manufacturer) really cares to learn the details like a racquet geek (who spends all day posting on TW
) would. Likely, this guy was given some overview sales training on the various racquets and was told which frames were associated with which pro. He's probably never seen Serena's or any other pro's actual racquet, nor really knows the details about their customizations. He not necessarily a lying, unethical slug... but just a guy trying to do his job with the information he was given.If you really had that much of a beef with what he was saying, it would have been a better approach to talk to this guy one on one after the others had left. That way, you could have had a more technical discussion and he could have saved some face. Embarassing him in front of others makes you both look bad, and nobody "wins". Besides, it's not as if he was trying to sell a cr@ppy product - Wilson makes d@mn good racquets! (Even the ones right off the production line!)
Anyway, I learned my lesson well at that tennis camp...
As it turned out, I ended up going undefeated during the camp, and won the tournament they had at the end of the session. However, at the awards ceremony, when they gave out the trophy for the camp's "Most Outstanding Player", they gave it to the guy I beat in the final 6-2, 6-0. At the time, I was crushed (it was a nice trophy and I really wanted it) and when I inquired about why I didn't win it with the undefeated record, the camp director told me that it was because I had a horrible attitude and none of the instructors backed me up for the award. Thankfully, that experience helped me to curb my punk ways and I became a more solid citizen.
(You might want to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It's an old book, but good advice for this type of stuff.)
Steve Huff
G.O.A.T.
For all of you who think HEAVY, FLEXIBLE, SMALL HEAD is the best it gets, I expect to see your reviews next week on the Kramer Autograph, Slazenger Challenge #1, and the TAD Davis Imperial. I want to know who's the king of Heavy, Flexible rackets. Those PS 85's are just too stiff (compared to these woodies) to be good for you "serious" players. I'd really like to see some of you HS guys that keep blasting the lightweight frames play an entire season using woodies (even a t2000). You see, everything is relative. In another 30 years, you don't know what will be considered lightweight. You don't know what "serious" players will be using. I used to think the same way. While I was using a Snauwaert Boronite 2, I thought the new Prince Classic should be banned. I thought the Head Edge, Dunlop Black Max etc made it too easy to play and negated the skill I, and many others, had worked so hard to achieve. I still hit with wood rackets every couple of months, just for kicks. And usually, I return with a sore shoulder. So guys, put your money where your mouth is. Get the ultimate heavy, flexible stick--a woodie. Use it for a year. Then write your posts about how heavy and flexible is so much better. Yeah, like this is gonna happen.
schaefferm46
Rookie
.
Last edited:
gregraven
Semi-Pro
35ft6 said:
It's clear from your post that we disagree about this matter, so I won't go blow by blow through your post, but your last statement is simply too much. The Wilson rep wasn't breaking the law, unlike the criminal. Also, when robbed, you SHOULD contact the police,* regardless of whether or not you "blame the criminal," whatever that means.
*Except when you've been robbed by the government, of course, as that form of robbery is currently legal. :-(
