I suck at 6.0 MXD

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Hall of Fame
Just finished first round play-off. I played like crap. Over-thinking things at the beginning and making lots of errors. Then I seem to not be able to hit to the female. Only to the male. Ball is magnetized. Even though the male had great hands and would return everything. Then no strong volleys. Put the ball away at net? Why, just keep the rally going and play more tennis. Just soft, safe volleys...

Ugh. Glad the season is over.

Oh shoot, there is the 18+ season coming up... Damn!
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I want to like your post!! May have been a less than awesome match, but you clearly learned something and recognize where you were making errors.

Played 7.5 this morning .... I kept hitting both to the guy and on volleys kept sending them to opponents instead of between them ... I also seemed hell-bent to prove that I could hit DTL ... which today I could not.

Much better 2nd set and awesome 10-point TB.

And @JoelDali what is the point of your comment? Why shouldn't it exist for the players that play at that level? Perhaps no levels should exist aside from the ones we ourselves play and enjoy.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
And @JoelDali what is the point of your comment? Why shouldn't it exist for the players that play at that level? Perhaps no levels should exist aside from the ones we ourselves play and enjoy.
Well admittedly all doubles is less than compelling when you are the most advanced player on the court.

I have far more fun in men's 4.0 doubles then when I play 7.0 mixed. In 4.0 I see a lot of balls since I'm often the weaker player.

In 7.0 MXD I'm struggling to insert myself meaningfully into the game. I feel more like I'm doing a favour for my female partner giving her an opportunity to see a lot of balls and face some men's serves and have someone fleet of foot to chase down the lobs.

But chicken vomit is a little much. I'm still able to have some fun but I've learned to tone down the intensity when I'm playing mixed.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I figure a comment is not worth making if it is nothing but insulting. Not constructive, not instructive, not funny and unkind.

I am surprised as a 3.5/4.0 male that you cannot be a force in 7.0 mixed. Do you prefer instead to play as the weakest of the partnership?

It is a different mindset to have to play as the stronger of the pair .... a good mindset to learn.
 

MRfStop

Professional
I want to like your post!! May have been a less than awesome match, but you clearly learned something and recognize where you were making errors.

Played 7.5 this morning .... I kept hitting both to the guy and on volleys kept sending them to opponents instead of between them ... I also seemed hell-bent to prove that I could hit DTL ... which today I could not.

Much better 2nd set and awesome 10-point TB.

And @JoelDali what is the point of your comment? Why shouldn't it exist for the players that play at that level? Perhaps no levels should exist aside from the ones we ourselves play and enjoy.
You have combo mixed in your area?
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
I figure a comment is not worth making if it is nothing but insulting. Not constructive, not instructive, not funny and unkind.

I am surprised as a 3.5/4.0 male that you cannot be a force in 7.0 mixed. Do you prefer instead to play as the weakest of the partnership?

It is a different mindset to have to play as the stronger of the pair .... a good mindset to learn.
Because it’s not that hard at 3.5-4.0 to stay away from someone. Most of the people I play against, once they see me aggressively poach their balls, will start lobbing. When I play back they will go at my partner.

There are ways to insert yourself but it generally requires your partner to stand off to the side and not touch balls unless it’s a clear put away. My partner would not accept that easily. So it goes back to being unfun.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
If you claim to be the stronger player but you can't help out your weak partner, maybe you are not so strong after all.
Being the stronger player in double means you have to poach more and more aggressively. You also have to anticipate shots better to bail out ur partner when they are in a tough spot. Thats also mean a lot more moving around. Isn't that fun?
I have a lot more fun (challenging types of fun) when paired with weaker player than with somebody way above my level.
 
Playing mixed doubles makes you a worse player.
People who are serious about tennis development do not waste time with mixed.
If you want sex, go to a local pottery class
 

zaskar1

Rookie
Just finished first round play-off. I played like crap. Over-thinking things at the beginning and making lots of errors. Then I seem to not be able to hit to the female. Only to the male. Ball is magnetized. Even though the male had great hands and would return everything. Then no strong volleys. Put the ball away at net? Why, just keep the rally going and play more tennis. Just soft, safe volleys...

Ugh. Glad the season is over.

Oh shoot, there is the 18+ season coming up... Damn!
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mixed is more of a mental exercise, if you need to relax and hit your shots to the weaker player
treat the opposing players as opponents, not male or female.
usually in mixed you end up covering 60-80% of the court, especially in the lower levels like 6.0 mixed

its not that much different than mens dbls, you hit to the weaker player when possible
z
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Playing as the stronger player in mixed is no different than being the stronger player in combo. Same strategies, same path to success, and yes, the same frustrations.
 

SeeItHitIt

Semi-Pro
Playing mixed doubles makes you a worse player.
People who are serious about tennis development do not waste time with mixed.
If you want sex, go to a local pottery class

Haha, I’d add only “if you want sex, go to a local pottery class for recent divorcees”
 

MRfStop

Professional
yup ... standard 6.0/7.0 etc for 18+ and 40+ and then just an odd state wide only league at 6.5/7.5 etc.
I would like this if there was a like option. I’ll have to email my LC to see if they would implement that kind of league. There are a lot of 4.5 men here that are wanting to play league but don’t want to play with a 3.5 at 8.0. Playing with a 4.0 at 8.5 is possibly more intriguing.
 
Anyone who is a 3.0 should not be playing matches.
They should be taking lessons.

And if you're 3.5, playing with a 2.5 is a joke.
Clearly, zero interest in playing advanced tennis
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
Most of the top 2.5 players in my section do not play mixed. They are focused on acquiring proper gear and deploying headband color selection methodology.
 

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Hall of Fame
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mixed is more of a mental exercise, if you need to relax and hit your shots to the weaker player
treat the opposing players as opponents, not male or female.
usually in mixed you end up covering 60-80% of the court, especially in the lower levels like 6.0 mixed

its not that much different than mens dbls, you hit to the weaker player when possible
z
Been playing only 6.0 or 3.0 men’s lately due to play offs and I’m taking time off from in club ladder where I normally play with upper 3.5.

Shots are so random, I thought I would just work on playing reactionary tennis and just socializing. Was a good run, but I think I’ll take a break and wait until I’m back on the ladder. I’m signed up for both 6.0 and 7.0 for fall season. At least 7.0 has a bit more elevated play and I don’t mind targeting either players.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
If you claim to be the stronger player but you can't help out your weak partner, maybe you are not so strong after all.
Being the stronger player in double means you have to poach more and more aggressively. You also have to anticipate shots better to bail out ur partner when they are in a tough spot. Thats also mean a lot more moving around. Isn't that fun?
I have a lot more fun (challenging types of fun) when paired with weaker player than with somebody way above my level.
Well today we played a practice match with a couple entering a 7.0 mxd tourney in a couple weeks. 4.0 male + 3.0 female. They’ve been routinely beating us recently. So today I put my partner up near the net next to the alley whenever I was back serving or returning. Told her that was her spot. When she was back I told her to only hit to the woman no matter what.

We beat them 6-2, 6-1. I thought after the match I’d get crap from my partner for essentially removing her from the mix and serving as a decoy essentially, but she was fine with not hitting many balls.

I’ve tried the aggressive poaching thing before and it doesn’t work well when your partners serves are not strong enough. It just leads to lob returns. Best just fake poaching and feinting to get in their head.

What works is putting your partner somewhere it is stupid to attack. That feeds balls back to me and now I can play keep away from the guy and go at his weaker partner.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
Well today we played a practice match with a couple entering a 7.0 mxd tourney in a couple weeks. 4.0 male + 3.0 female. They’ve been routinely beating us recently. So today I put my partner up near the net next to the alley whenever I was back serving or returning. Told her that was her spot. When she was back I told her to only hit to the woman no matter what.

We beat them 6-2, 6-1. I thought after the match I’d get crap from my partner for essentially removing her from the mix and serving as a decoy essentially, but she was fine with not hitting many balls.

I’ve tried the aggressive poaching thing before and it doesn’t work well when your partners serves are not strong enough. It just leads to lob returns. Best just fake poaching and feinting to get in their head.

What works is putting your partner somewhere it is stupid to attack. That feeds balls back to me and now I can play keep away from the guy and go at his weaker partner.
Good job. If your strategy is so simple as going at the 3.0, i find its strange that the 4.0 did not go after those balls :).
When I am paired up with weaker partner, i get a lot of balls going towards my partner. Many times, they help me out too of course.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
And JoelDali what is the point of your comment? Why shouldn't it exist for the players that play at that level? Perhaps no levels should exist aside from the ones we ourselves play and enjoy.
The simple truth is that in mixed, in the overwhelming majority of cases, women are invited and encouraged to play up... and men have no choice but to play down. If you're a guy playing 6.0 mixed, you're either a 3.0 or a 3.5, which means your female partner is a 3.0 or a 2.5. It is an exceptionally rare case where you'll be a 2.5 guy playing with a 3.5 woman - first, why would the 3.5 woman be playing 6.0 mixed unless she's your wife/significant other, when there are 7.0 teams clamoring for her? Second, what captain is going to put a 2.5 guy on the court unless they have no other option?

Would YOU like to play with a 2.5 guy in 6.0 mixed?

How many 3.5 guys have no choice but to play with a 2.5 woman (or skip 6.0 mixed)?

Mixed below 7.0 is brutal for any but the absolute rank beginners.
 

esgee48

Legend
Work your way up the NTRP ladder so you can play 8.0/9.0 mixed. A lot of 8.0 teams have 4.5 males, but if their 4.0 opponents are borderline 4.5, then they will win. Same tactics, which is target the weaker female or make the male run all over the court. YMMV.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
The simple truth is that in mixed, in the overwhelming majority of cases, women are invited and encouraged to play up... and men have no choice but to play down. If you're a guy playing 6.0 mixed, you're either a 3.0 or a 3.5, which means your female partner is a 3.0 or a 2.5. It is an exceptionally rare case where you'll be a 2.5 guy playing with a 3.5 woman - first, why would the 3.5 woman be playing 6.0 mixed unless she's your wife/significant other, when there are 7.0 teams clamoring for her? Second, what captain is going to put a 2.5 guy on the court unless they have no other option?

Would YOU like to play with a 2.5 guy in 6.0 mixed?

How many 3.5 guys have no choice but to play with a 2.5 woman (or skip 6.0 mixed)?

Mixed below 7.0 is brutal for any but the absolute rank beginners.
The vast majority of 6.0 locally is played by 3.0/3.0 pairs. Typically the 3.0 female is stronger than the 3.0 male simply because she is more consistent.

There is simply no need to disparage any of the lower level leagues.

We comment often on how league play is declining and how we are not getting enough new players into league and yet claim those players shouldn't be playing matches, their levels shouldn't exist etc.

Trust that many who play 8.0, 9.0 and 10.0 say the same thing about 7.0!

When I was ready to be bumped to 3.5 I was fully DONE with 3.0 level play. Just didn't enjoy it any more. Now that I am a stronger 3.5 and looking at potentially a bump to 4.0 in next year or so ... I do not disparage 3.0 league.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Work your way up the NTRP ladder so you can play 8.0/9.0 mixed. A lot of 8.0 teams have 4.5 males, but if their 4.0 opponents are borderline 4.5, then they will win. Same tactics, which is target the weaker female or make the male run all over the court. YMMV.
In my 7.5 league yesterday my partner made the mistake of targeting their female. She was a strong 4.0 her partner a weak 3.5. She didn't miss and could handle whatever pace was sent her way. After losing first set 7-6, changed tactics and won 2nd 6-1 ....
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
The vast majority of 6.0 locally is played by 3.0/3.0 pairs. Typically the 3.0 female is stronger than the 3.0 male simply because she is more consistent.
I think this may be a local thing, because it is VERY different where I am... 3.0 is roughly equivalent to what we call "C-level" in ALTA (there's a lot of other discussion about it that could be had, but it would take us rather far afield of this particular topic). Let's just set all of that aside though and assume that we're speaking about players who are rated legitimately, for the purposes of this discussion, shall we?

In ALTA tennis, I see women from B-5 teams (rough equivalent of mid range USTA 3.5 - nobody playing legitimately at B-5 ALTA would be in hypothetical jeopardy of being bumped to USTA 4.0, and they weren't just bumped to 3.5 last season either) playing mixed at C-1 (rough equivalent of high 3.0 to low 3.5 - maybe some people would be on the verge of being bumped to 3.5 if it were USTA, nobody on this team was recently bumped from 3.0). Those B-5 women on that C-1 mixed team are right in the wheelhouse of competitiveness with these borderline 3.5 males. However, it's relatively rare that you'll see women who play women's dubs at B-5 playing on a C-1 ALTA mixed team because B-5 (and higher) mixed teams are recruiting them.

As for the 3.0 female typically being the stronger player in a 3.0M/3.0F pairing, it must be a local thing because around here it is VASTLY different. 3.0 women "get away" with stuff playing women's dubs that they can never get away with in mixed... examples:

1) dinking garbage serves that a 3.0 male (provided he doesn't try to rip it) can place reasonably reliably pretty much wherever they want,
2) floating returns of serve across the middle because most women don't poach at that level of play in women's dubs
3) "cooperatively volleying" when up at the net, rather than actually trying to end the point because most of the players at this level can't volley
4) ducking away from anything that requires them to swing with their racquet over their shoulder because a great deal of women's dubs at this level is played with two-back and overheads that aren't "cooperatively volleyed back" are super rare
5) camping in the alley and never bothering to try to poach because their usual women's partner playing at the baseline will admonish them with "I was there!!!" if they should try to poach and make a mistake
6) hitting waist (or shoulder) high volleys deep in NML or at the baseline because they don't see pace or deep balls often and can't catch up to the ball with their feet, so they just hit it without even realizing where they're standing rather than risk it going in and they didn't swing

These are examples of the sort of play that I see in women's dubs at the 3.0 level and the way I see those same women playing mixed at this level.

We've discussed this sort of thing before, and I know you know better than to do these things, but you are an anomalous case, at least around here you would be... I have women on my mixed team that refuse to go up and play at the net - because being 3.0 pushers in women's dubs has worked for them for years and years... and they don't get punished for short shots over the middle because these baseline pushers in women's dubs at this level are so successful that their opponents are playing that way too... so they struggle through the mixed season... then go back to playing 2-back in the women's season and taking 3.5 hours to get through 3 set matches where the average point length is 15 shots.

On my mixed team at practice, I will often go out and poach super aggressively, often selling out on the poach to a point that I would never do in an actual match for fear of telegraphing my intention. I do this not to be a smart***, but to try to teach the other less experienced players to keep the ball away from the net player. It worked OUTSTANDINGLY!!! I taught 3 or 4 women to avoid me at the net at almost all costs, it was fantastic... I was so proud of myself teaching these ladies for the most part to avoid the net guy with their shots... Then in practices at the end of the season, I'd have these ladies as my own partner and I realized that I only taught them to avoid ME at the net... they were perfectly happy hitting the ball carelessly towards our opponent net player. I asked one of them why she wasn't avoiding the net player like she did when she played against me... her reply was "Well I didn't think everyone would be as active at the net as you are! Do I really have to avoid EVERYONE at the net?" :|

Regarding your statement about the 3.0 women typically being the stronger player, who do you see winning a dubs or singles match between 3.0 women and 3.0 men - let's assume both sides play at the same line level on their respective teams... so S1 3.0 female vs S1 3.0 male or D3 3.0 females vs D3 3.0 males, etc; who do you see winning those matches most often?

There is simply no need to disparage any of the lower level leagues.
Agreed on this - the comment that it was absurd that such a thing even exists was over the top... but I can identify with his loathing to play in such a league at least...

We comment often on how league play is declining and how we are not getting enough new players into league and yet claim those players shouldn't be playing matches, their levels shouldn't exist etc.
I think this is another local thing - in ATL, league play is strong with ALTA, I can't say for USTA though...

Trust that many who play 8.0, 9.0 and 10.0 say the same thing about 7.0!
Of course - and ATP tour guys say the same thing about challenger tour players...

When I was ready to be bumped to 3.5 I was fully DONE with 3.0 level play. Just didn't enjoy it any more. Now that I am a stronger 3.5 and looking at potentially a bump to 4.0 in next year or so ... I do not disparage 3.0 league.
This is also fair - again - his remark that it was absurd that it even exists was over the top, I do agree with you there... and while I'm glad such league play exists for beginners, it doesn't make me want to play in it either...
 
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Cawlin

Semi-Pro
Well today we played a practice match with a couple entering a 7.0 mxd tourney in a couple weeks. 4.0 male + 3.0 female. They’ve been routinely beating us recently. So today I put my partner up near the net next to the alley whenever I was back serving or returning. Told her that was her spot. When she was back I told her to only hit to the woman no matter what.

We beat them 6-2, 6-1. I thought after the match I’d get crap from my partner for essentially removing her from the mix and serving as a decoy essentially, but she was fine with not hitting many balls.

I’ve tried the aggressive poaching thing before and it doesn’t work well when your partners serves are not strong enough. It just leads to lob returns. Best just fake poaching and feinting to get in their head.

What works is putting your partner somewhere it is stupid to attack. That feeds balls back to me and now I can play keep away from the guy and go at his weaker partner.
This... a thousand times this...

and this will only work if your partner is OK with this sort of play. Of course, if it's not fun for you either... what's the point?
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
This... a thousand times this...

and this will only work if your partner is OK with this sort of play. Of course, if it's not fun for you either... what's the point?
I find that many females know their strengths and weaknesses. On our team, we have some strong 3.0 players. Most of them will get bumped next year.

But during play-offs, every team is composed of players that are ready to get bumped up. So in essence, if you are not playing 7.0 level, you will not win.

My male opponent played a little sharper than I did at net. My female partner had great FH ground strokes and never DF'd. But opponent female was a little better at net. Those were the differences. They were quality opponents.

I'm just mad at myself because I didn't raise my level of play. I started off slow and couldn't adjust. It was good play to beat normal 6.0 opponents. But we were playing against 7.0 level game and I couldn't adjust in time. We dropped 3 games initially on both sets and lost 3, 4.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
I find that many females know their strengths and weaknesses. On our team, we have some strong 3.0 players. Most of them will get bumped next year.

But during play-offs, every team is composed of players that are ready to get bumped up. So in essence, if you are not playing 7.0 level, you will not win.

My male opponent played a little sharper than I did at net. My female partner had great FH ground strokes and never DF'd. But opponent female was a little better at net. Those were the differences. They were quality opponents.

I'm just mad at myself because I didn't raise my level of play. I started off slow and couldn't adjust. It was good play to beat normal 6.0 opponents. But we were playing against 7.0 level game and I couldn't adjust in time. We dropped 3 games initially on both sets and lost 3, 4.
Yeah, playoffs are a different thing, right? Some teams make it there by the skin of their teeth, some make it there because they're really playing above the current level and blowing everyone out.

I would suspect that not adjusting "in time" is an indication that there is potentially room for improvement for you at this level - and I'm not saying that to be a jerk. It is meant to be constructive.

Remember that as a tennis player, losing is not your enemy - being afraid to lose IS. A win teaches you very little, but a loss can teach you a ton, as long as you let it teach you.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
Good job. If your strategy is so simple as going at the 3.0, i find its strange that the 4.0 did not go after those balls :).
When I am paired up with weaker partner, i get a lot of balls going towards my partner. Many times, they help me out too of course.
They did not employ our strategy in reply so the 3.0 was left in space and easy to target. Their isn't much the 4.0 could do unless he too told his partner to stand up at the net and hug the alley. But he didn't so we easily won.

4.0's are not superhuman. Many points went like this: 4.0 serves or returns CC to my partner, my partner directs the ball at the opposing 3.0 who hits a weak volley that I run to and hit back at the 3.0, she hits a weak pop up that I then hit firmly at her feet, point over. When we were returning the weak 3.0's serves, we had no problem hitting around or over the 4.0 at net and getting balls deep to the 3.0 who'd pop up a sitter for an easy putaway into open space. Hard to poach when the returners are standing 5 feet behind the service line.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
They did not employ our strategy in reply so the 3.0 was left in space and easy to target. Their isn't much the 4.0 could do unless he too told his partner to stand up at the net and hug the alley. But he didn't so we easily won.

4.0's are not superhuman. Many points went like this: 4.0 serves or returns CC to my partner, my partner directs the ball at the opposing 3.0 who hits a weak volley that I run to and hit back at the 3.0, she hits a weak pop up that I then hit firmly at her feet, point over. When we were returning the weak 3.0's serves, we had no problem hitting around or over the 4.0 at net and getting balls deep to the 3.0 who'd pop up a sitter for an easy putaway into open space. Hard to poach when the returners are standing 5 feet behind the service line.
Well obviously that 4.0 didn't work hard enough to carry the win - clearly the loss was their fault.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
The 4.0 rarely touched the ball because we didn't let him. His only solution would have been to put the 3.0 into a place where hitting at them was stupid. He didn't do that. In the past we let him touch the ball and he'd just pelt it at my partner continually. We just took a play out of his play book.

Everyone says the stronger player should make up for the weaker player but it only works if you put that weaker player out of the equation. Every year we have a men's Calcutta where open players are often teamed up with weak as hell 3.0 men. Every year they win by putting that weaker 3.0 right up at the net in the alley and taking over. If it works in a money match with imbalanced men, it sure as heck is going to work in mixed. But most weaker partners don't like being the decoy for some reason.
 

kevrol

Hall of Fame
Playing 6.0 mixed as a 3.5 male is like playing singles, except there's an obstacle on your side of the court you have to avoid.
 

Cawlin

Semi-Pro
Everyone says the stronger player should make up for the weaker player but it only works if you put that weaker player out of the equation. Every year we have a men's Calcutta where open players are often teamed up with weak as hell 3.0 men. Every year they win by putting that weaker 3.0 right up at the net in the alley and taking over. If it works in a money match with imbalanced men, it sure as heck is going to work in mixed. But most weaker partners don't like being the decoy for some reason.
True again...
 
No, boring.

Every single serve return goes anywhere the returner wants.
CC far away from the net man, lob over the net man, etc.
Returner is in control and dictating the point.
The opposite of real tennis.

Boring as ****
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
No, boring.

Every single serve return goes anywhere the returner wants.
CC far away from the net man, lob over the net man, etc.
Returner is in control and dictating the point.
The opposite of real tennis.

Boring as ****
you are assuming the point is over after the return?

Isn't the returner always in control on most 2nd serve opportunities? At least they should be to some great extent. Is that not the same thing? Definitely real tennis.
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
The top 3.0 male players in the world wear Nike.

The top 3.0 female players in the world wear Dali’s T-shirt’s to bed.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
No, boring.

Every single serve return goes anywhere the returner wants.
CC far away from the net man, lob over the net man, etc.
Returner is in control and dictating the point.
The opposite of real tennis.

Boring as ****
So the challenge is, can you find a tell from your opponent's setup, where he/she will hit the ball? If they go cc, can you cut it off and volley to the open court or better yet, nail the net player in the shoes? Or can you fake a poach and be right there for the DTL shot? Or can your movements at the net provide just enough distraction for a miss-hit? You have the ability to influence what the returner does. I'd say that is real tennis.

My guess is, you've never played good doubles so you don't know what you don't know. And you apply only singles tactics to the situation and it is boring. But there is another world of tennis there for you to learn.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
No, boring.

Every single serve return goes anywhere the returner wants.
CC far away from the net man, lob over the net man, etc.
Returner is in control and dictating the point.
The opposite of real tennis.

Boring as ****
Actually as a net man, a slower serve gives me all sorts of opportunity to feint and move. A fast serve and fast return goes past me before i've even split stepped.
With the slow serve I often feint one way at the sound of my partner hitting the ball then at the bounce, I'll often move the other way so the opponent catches me in peripheral vision. Really screws up their decision making process.
 
So the challenge is, can you find a tell from your opponent's setup, where he/she will hit the ball? If they go cc, can you cut it off and volley to the open court or better yet, nail the net player in the shoes? Or can you fake a poach and be right there for the DTL shot? Or can your movements at the net provide just enough distraction for a miss-hit? You have the ability to influence what the returner does. I'd say that is real tennis.

My guess is, you've never played good doubles so you don't know what you don't know. And you apply only singles tactics to the situation and it is boring. But there is another world of tennis there for you to learn.
I've played plenty of great doubles with massive 3.5 servers.
I'll put away all 4 service point balls at the net.
When I serve, my net man has a net slam bonanza.

But, doubles sucks ass with bunter dink 4.0 servers.
In those cases, net man just sits there filing his nails.

No, the CC return is so extreme that I'd have to start in the other service box.
The CC return often lands in the other doubles alley, it's that wide.
Basically impossible to poach something on the other side of the court, no where even close to the middle.
I would try I-formation but I don't give a **** enough to try to convince the idiot dubs partner to change anything about his garbage tennis game.
They never ever hit DTL. 100% of returns are CC, exactly where they want to hit it, b/c of dinker 4.0
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
I would try I-formation but I don't give a **** enough to try to convince the idiot dubs partner to change anything about his garbage tennis game.
Idiot partner doesn't have to change anything about his dubs game if he doesn't want to in I formation. Straddle the T, move to cover the alley.
The appearance of I formation is enough to encourage a DTL return and you can go pick it off.

The reason I don't play it more is that it's hard on my 55 year old knees. But if I was young like you, i'd be in that position a lot.
 
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