I think I cracked the code to the 2HBH (video)

[DonDiego]

One thing has frustrated me in my transition to the 2-hander: the difficulty to attack balls, especially weaker ones, and drive them hard for winners as I do with my 1-hander with a certain ease.

But watching a clip of Djokovic made me realize how much he is turning sideways when he wants to rip a ball. I tried that, and while my form is not perfect and I'm still muscling the ball too much, at least now I can feel how it's done, and know that it's possible with some fine-tuning.

Here's a short clip: (I mainly ''drive'' them in the first half and at the very end of the clip... I particularly like the last one https://vimeo.com/106859752

Comments and advices are much appreciated.

 

[LeeD]

Back to 2hbh already?
Consider this. 2hbh is closer to hitting a lefty eForehand than a lefty SW, W, or strong modern E grip.
So, closed stance hit's harder.
Look at Nadal's hard loopy forehands, yet his 2hbh is much flatter, faster, and closed stanced.
Since 2hbh gives a shorter overall swing, the flatter stroke is needed to create ball speed, and pure spin is somewhat limited compared to 1hbh, so closed stance is necessary.
Murray and Ferrer make a semi open 2hbh work just fine on defense.

 

[DonDiego]

Thanks Lee, I see your point.

Lol yeah... I wanted to go back to my one-hander -- and I tried -- but it seems I can't. I've spent too many hours on the two-hander now my it seems my body only remembers that shot...

For what it's worth, here's me hitting both backhands a month ago (1-hander starts around 35 seconds) https://vimeo.com/103102457

 

[LeeD]

Once in a blue moon, like twice a year, I get to hit with some decent players, one being these brother's who play Open level (5.5) and use both hands for all strokes.
BUT, they both have problems deciding what to hit on running wide backhands, and which to use on putaway shots from the middle of the court.
Sometimes, having too many weapons is a curse.
If both those boys practiced ONE handed only, some people think their game would improve by quite a bit. Like 1/3 more practice with the hand you're using.
Could this also apply in your case? Whether or not 1 or 2 is superior, it's the amount of practice, match practice, and match play that determines the outcome of which you should use.

 

[JackB1]

One thing has frustrated me in my transition to the 2-hander: the difficulty to attack balls, especially weaker ones, and drive them hard for winners as I do with my 1-hander with a certain ease.

But watching a clip of Djokovic made me realize how much he is turning sideways when he wants to rip a ball. I tried that, and while my form is not perfect and I'm still muscling the ball too much, at least now I can feel how it's done, and know that it's possible with some fine-tuning.

Here's a short clip: (I mainly ''drive'' them in the first half and at the very end of the clip... I particularly like the last one https://vimeo.com/106859752

Comments and advices are much appreciated.

I watched your video where you are hitting both and now I see why you are caught in the middle. They both look good If I were to give you advice only based on what I saw, I would go with the 2 hander. It looks more reliable and you also seem to "drive" it more than your 1 hander. I do agree you are muscling the 2 hander a bit and it doesn't look as loose as it could.
You aren't getting that nice lag and whip in the wrists, just before the swing comes forward. Really focus on letting the racquet head drop in the transition from backswing to forward swing. It looks good though! Just some minor tweaking needed.

 

[DonDiego]

You aren't getting that nice lag and whip in the wrists, just before the swing comes forward.

That is very true! Thanks.

 

[DonDiego]

Since 2hbh gives a shorter overall swing, the flatter stroke is needed to create ball speed, and pure spin is somewhat limited compared to 1hbh, so closed stance is necessary.

That is something I need to adjust to. Flatter hitting means balls landing long more often for me. I find it harder to keep the ball in the court with two hands.

 

[LeeD]

Aim lower?
I know some 2hbh guys, pretty good in anyone's judgement, who hit 2hbh with a combination of sidespin and underspin.
The underspin gives the weirdo bounce, while the sidespin allows the ball to just barely drop IN.
Normal 2hbh shots clear the net by around 2' maximum, while one handed forehands about a foot higher.
Check out the vid of Dolgopov hitting max speed shots with Monfils.

 

[DonDiego]

You're talking about this vid, Lee? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzb_GbnMnnM That's impressive stuff!

OTOH, if you look at these guys, especially Monaco, they get much more net clearance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzb_GbnMnnM

It seems like there are many ways to hit that shot. Other 2-handers want to weigh in? I'm curious, do you guys ''aim lower'' when you hit the backhand?

 

[LeeD]

Seems rally balls, high net clearance and lots of topspin.
Winner attempts, low net skimmers, very flat, lots of ball speed.
Dolgo hit's both, loopy 2hbh and flat net skimming rockets. His slice backhand is also low over the net, deep, and has good place.
I didn't warmup with MalcolmAllen this spring, but he also hit's a low, slight sidespin/underspin 2hbh that penetrates the court and stays thigh low, with a sidewards skid. Fortunately for me, that's about the only ball height I can handle these days.

 

[rkelley]

Other 2-handers want to weigh in? I'm curious, do you guys ''aim lower'' when you hit the backhand?

Not really for me. It's true that (like most 2hbh players) I generate less topspin on my bh than my fh. But for me, the bigger issue with my bh is hitting balls into the tape, so I'm generally focused on hitting a bit higher to combat this.

I've also been working on getting more topspin on my bh. Not surprisingly, it really helps to get the hands out in front and allow the racquet to whip from below and into the ball. For my stroke I also want a straight-ish left arm, which video shows me that I haven't been doing. When I keep my left arm straight I can accentuate the whipping action of the racquet and still feel relaxed and in control.

 

[crash1929]

looks ok to me. seems like you are on the right track.

lately i've been watching a lot of videos that talk about not rotating into the shot and only using your arms, for example when pulled wide you should stay facing wide and use your arms to hit.

when i have time and can step into the ball I can really use my shoulders to smash a back hand drive (I have 2 hander). I'm not sure if it's correct technique but you might think about this at some point in the future.

 

[Rozroz]

so you're a 2 hander again??
i guess we're now indeed on the same track.
also working on making it more penetrating, flowing and relaxed.
the tip on hitting the upper frame brings me more spin and better hitting placement.
but i need much more work on correct kinetic chain.
still feels too "woody" - i hate it!

 

[Pet]

One thing has frustrated me in my transition to the 2-hander: the difficulty to attack balls, especially weaker ones, and drive them hard for winners as I do with my 1-hander with a certain ease.

But watching a clip of Djokovic made me realize how much he is turning sideways when he wants to rip a ball. I tried that, and while my form is not perfect and I'm still muscling the ball too much, at least now I can feel how it's done, and know that it's possible with some fine-tuning.

Here's a short clip: (I mainly ''drive'' them in the first half and at the very end of the clip... I particularly like the last one https://vimeo.com/106859752

Comments and advices are much appreciated.

Hi DonDiego, I like to see that you continue with 2handbackhand, trust me.. you have long arms, imagine with onehandbackhand... it would be very difficult to you in no time situations make good contacts. Instead with this backhand you have good hand speed and the most important....is more consistent in stressful situations.

Only one thing, try to make the training more ritmic, put a cone or something in the midle of the court and return behind it everytime you hit a backhand.

 

[jjsang23]

Biggest difference between your 1hbh opposed to your 2hbh is your use of your legs! Much better bend, push, and drive on your 1hbh.

 

[tennis_balla]

To me there is something off. I'll look at it again later, maybe one of the other coaches on here can help me out.
The thing I noticed in my opinion is your front leg is too straight and you sorta lean over the ball with your upper body. You're too far away on your initial setup (left over from one hander contact point, more further away from you) and then fall to your left. The left foot comes across because of off balance, not because of drive into the ball. I dunno, I might be wrong, but thats what I see. Basically, you're not setting up that left hip properly in relation too the ball, its too far away, thats your reference point, and you're reaching for the shot. Not hitting it.

 

[julian]

I agree with your description

To me there is something off. I'll look at it again later, maybe one of the other coaches on here can help me out.
The thing I noticed in my opinion is your front leg is too straight and you sorta lean over the ball with your upper body. You're too far away on your initial setup (left over from one hander contact point, more further away from you) and then fall to your left. The left foot comes across because of off balance, not because of drive into the ball. I dunno, I might be wrong, but thats what I see. Basically, you're not setting up that left hip properly in relation too the ball, its too far away, thats your reference point, and you're reaching for the shot. Not hitting it.

I agree with your description
Asking a player to hit Dtl is one way "to force the issue a bit"
A left hand only drills can help a bit but there is no guarantee here.
Some strength related drills to improve strength/flex of a left knee maybe recommended
I would suggest to check whether a grip for a bottom hand is continental.
It should not matter a lot for this particular case,
Sorry I cannot add anything else constructive
Julian Mielniczuk
USPTA

 

[DonDiego]

Biggest difference between your 1hbh opposed to your 2hbh is your use of your legs! Much better bend, push, and drive on your 1hbh.

I agree with this. I think my form is still better and more natural with one hand. And I can hit in a much more relaxed way and still get power and spin. I'll shoot another vid today hitting one-handers at 80-100% power, and post it here.

 

[DonDiego]

To me there is something off. I'll look at it again later, maybe one of the other coaches on here can help me out.
The thing I noticed in my opinion is your front leg is too straight and you sorta lean over the ball with your upper body. You're too far away on your initial setup (left over from one hander contact point, more further away from you) and then fall to your left. The left foot comes across because of off balance, not because of drive into the ball. I dunno, I might be wrong, but thats what I see. Basically, you're not setting up that left hip properly in relation too the ball, its too far away, thats your reference point, and you're reaching for the shot. Not hitting it.

Thanks. I think this was exacerbated by the fact that I was going for winners at 100% power on this vid, which made me lean more into the shot and almost fall forward.

 

[JackB1]

The 2 handers takes a lot more out of your body than the one hander. That's one reason I prefer the one hander. I also have a good slice, so I am very used to hitting the backhand with just one hand.

Anyone that is good with their non-dominant side will have a good 2 hander, since it's basically a non-dominant side forehand. If you are not ambidextrious at all, you probably should stick with the one hander. JMO.

 

[JackB1]

That is very true! Thanks.

The transition below from frame 3 to frame 4 is what you need to get more of into your swing.
Look at this part of your swing in slowmo or frame by frame and compare to Djoko. His racquet
almost goes from tip up to tip down before swinging forward.

 

[taurussable]

lately i've been watching a lot of videos that talk about not rotating into the shot and only using your arms

would you mind sharing some of these videos? never heard about 'only using your arms'.

 

[tennis_balla]

Thanks. I think this was exacerbated by the fact that I was going for winners at 100% power on this vid, which made me lean more into the shot and almost fall forward.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about leaning forward, the lean I was talking about is to your left, over to the ball because you're too far away from it on your setup. Look at how you finish, you move way to the left if I remember correctly. Typing from my phone so can't view video right now.

 

[julian]

Majority of coaches in US

The 2 handers takes a lot more out of your body than the one hander. That's one reason I prefer the one hander. I also have a good slice, so I am very used to hitting the backhand with just one hand.

Anyone that is good with their non-dominant side will have a good 2 hander, since it's basically a non-dominant side forehand. If you are not ambidextrious at all, you probably should stick with the one hander. JMO.

Majority of coaches in US would disagree with your last sentence.

 

[JackB1]

Majority of coaches in US would disagree with your last sentence.

I am talking about older rec players....not young kids just learning.

Of course ALL coaches now teach the 2 hander exclusively and will steer kids away from the one hander.

I was referring to the op's struggles in determining which one to use. The two hander will never feel "natural" to an adult rec player who is not good at using their weaker side.

 

[DonDiego]

I think you missed my point. I wasn't talking about leaning forward, the lean I was talking about is to your left, over to the ball because you're too far away from it on your setup. Look at how you finish, you move way to the left if I remember correctly. Typing from my phone so can't view video right now.

Okay, I see. It's weird because with two hands, I mostly feel like I take the ball too close to my body... but then again, it might be because I was going full throttle instead of regular groundstrokes. Please watch the next clip I'm putting on (in about 5 minutes) and tell me if I'm still doing it. Thanks.

Edit: I'm told my video will be uploaded in 40 minutes...

 

[DonDiego]

video update -- both backhands side to side

Ok, here's a video I took this morning (lighting was much better!)

It only last a minute or so. I hit first some one-handers, and then my ''new'' two hander. Based on what you can see, I'd be curious to know which one you think I should stick with and spend the next few weeks working on, and why.

Thanks guys -- and thanks TT --, I really appreciate that kind of feedback!

Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

 

[JackB1]

Ok, here's a video I took this morning (lighting was much better!)

It only last a minute or so. I hit first some one-handers, and then my ''new'' two hander. Based on what you can see, I'd be curious to know which one you think I should stick with and spend the next few weeks working on, and why.

Thanks guys -- and thanks TT --, I really appreciate that kind of feedback!

Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

Hard to decide just based on form. If I was on the receiving end of these shots, I would be able to make a much better recomendation. They both look technically fine. You actually look like you swing faster and harder with the 2 hander. But again, if they are both close to equal, I would go with the 2 hander due to all it's inherent advantages.

 

[NSXER]

Ok, here's a video I took this morning (lighting was much better!)

It only last a minute or so. I hit first some one-handers, and then my ''new'' two hander. Based on what you can see, I'd be curious to know which one you think I should stick with and spend the next few weeks working on, and why.

Thanks guys -- and thanks TT --, I really appreciate that kind of feedback!

Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

Looks great....your scores & results will talk to you.

Perfectionism is a dream....

Well done!

 

[mad dog1]

Okay, I see. It's weird because with two hands, I mostly feel like I take the ball too close to my body... but then again, it might be because I was going full throttle instead of regular groundstrokes. Please watch the next clip I'm putting on (in about 5 minutes) and tell me if I'm still doing it. Thanks.

Edit: I'm told my video will be uploaded in 40 minutes...

for a 2hbh, the contact point of the ball is closer to the body than w/ the 1hbh. since you're switching from the 1hbh, you might be maintaining the same contact point distance and this is causing you to fall to your left as tennis balla mentioned.

 

[DonDiego]

Hard to decide just based on form. If I was on the receiving end of these shots, I would be able to make a much better recomendation.

As of now, I would give you more trouble with my one-hander. More spin, pace and depth, even if I seem to hit harder with two hands.

 

[DonDiego]

if they are both close to equal, I would go with the 2 hander due to all it's inherent advantages.

Yeah, those damn ''inherent advantages''... I'm already returning with two hands, which is a primary reason why I'm trying this transition, to ''simplify'' my overall game.

 

[tennis_balla]

Ok, here's a video I took this morning (lighting was much better!)

It only last a minute or so. I hit first some one-handers, and then my ''new'' two hander. Based on what you can see, I'd be curious to know which one you think I should stick with and spend the next few weeks working on, and why.

Thanks guys -- and thanks TT --, I really appreciate that kind of feedback!

Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

Your backswing is earlier on the one hander than it is on the two hander.

 

[DonDiego]

Your backswing is earlier on the one hander than it is on the two hander.

You mean it's a good thing, and that it should be as early on my two-hander right?

I haven't been able to make the two-hander like a long and fluid swing so far, as I do with one hand. I still feel it's broken into multiple pieces not always in sync with each other.

 

[JackB1]

Yeah, those damn ''inherent advantages''... I'm already returning with two hands, which is a primary reason why I'm trying this transition, to ''simplify'' my overall game.

You have a good "problem", since you hit both very well. Plus, you play for fun and not your livelihood so pick the one you enjoy using more and move on

 

[tennis_balla]

You mean it's a good thing, and that it should be as early on my two-hander right?

I haven't been able to make the two-hander like a long and fluid swing so far, as I do with one hand. I still feel it's broken into multiple pieces not always in sync with each other.

You just answered your own question about what you need to work on.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

To me there is something off. I'll look at it again later, maybe one of the other coaches on here can help me out.
The thing I noticed in my opinion is your front leg is too straight and you sorta lean over the ball with your upper body. You're too far away on your initial setup (left over from one hander contact point, more further away from you) and then fall to your left. The left foot comes across because of off balance, not because of drive into the ball. I dunno, I might be wrong, but thats what I see. Basically, you're not setting up that left hip properly in relation too the ball, its too far away, thats your reference point, and you're reaching for the shot. Not hitting it.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing, mainly because it's something I've been working to correct in my own 2hbh. The reason I think is because I used my goto bh shot for a long time was my 1h-slice (and for a time dabbled with a 1h topspin), but the contact point is way out in front of my body, so footwork wise, and positioning-wise I set up as if I were still hitting the 1hbh slice... but with my current 2hbh grip setup, the contact point is further back (say 4-6in),... so I'd often fall into the shot to make up that 6in... when I get to the ball in plenty of time, that was working, but under duress (eg. pulled out wide, hitting on the run (off and def), etc...) my tech would fail, and I'd hit into the net.

Practicing hitting a lefty forehand (using same choked up grip used in the 2hbh) really highlighted the difference in contact point, and is helping get into the habit of setting up closer to the ball so I don't have to "fall-to-chase a ball out in front".

Just curious,... do you hit your 2hbh better when some is hitting pace at you, vs. junk balling your backhand? (I always found myself reaching). Another thing I do is find a 3.5 player and either trying to beat them with my lefty forehand, and/or only my 2hbh.

my $0.02

 

[DonDiego]

Just curious,... do you hit your 2hbh better when some is hitting pace at you, vs. junk balling your backhand?
my $0.02

Yes, and I see your point. When I warm-up with the machine I usually hit my first two baskets at a slower speed, with me being 1-2 feet inside the baseline. I take my time, prepare early and then tell myself to wait more for the ball before hitting. It works, I'm more balanced and my back is straighter.

I'll keep doing this drill as often as I can.

 

[jjsang23]

Ok, here's a video I took this morning (lighting was much better!)

It only last a minute or so. I hit first some one-handers, and then my ''new'' two hander. Based on what you can see, I'd be curious to know which one you think I should stick with and spend the next few weeks working on, and why.

Thanks guys -- and thanks TT --, I really appreciate that kind of feedback!

Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

My 2 cents...

The 2hbh is much different than just a 1hbh stroke with an extra hand on the stick. Its a different animal with different technique involved.
Agassi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJXQ69yuMw

Let's focus on just a few things. Anything more than 3-4 things to focus on will make it a much more difficult transition.

(1) Your preparation is poor on the 2hbh. You prepare much earlier on the 1hbh, because you simply have to in order to get your feet in position and to make contact out in front. The 2hbh allows a bit more time since you're making contact closer to the body. This doesn't mean you should slack on preparation.

(2) You have very little racquet take-back on the 2hbh. Your back-swing needs to be much fuller behind you. Right now you're only taking it back somewhere near your ear, just like on your 1hbh. This is why you're seemingly having to "muscle" the ball through the contact zone instead of feeling more fluid and flowing. Take a full back-swing and you'll generate more racquet head speed more easily. The 2hbh stroke should begin with your chin touching (or nearly touching) your right shoulder. Since you're a righty, think about being a switch-hitting a baseball player where they tuck their chin to their shoulder.
Here's you compared to Agassi:
https://imageshack.com/i/knH4Z7znp
https://imageshack.com/i/ipLUpv00p

(3) You're not getting your left arm fully extended at contact and immediately after contact (your right arm can be slightly bent). This causes you to leave probably 20-25% power left on the table. Extend through the contact zone and generate more power.
Here's you compared to Agassi:
https://imageshack.com/i/eyjWHN98p
https://imageshack.com/i/eyxhqxROp

https://imageshack.com/i/f0SpRiL7p
https://imageshack.com/i/ipEkrb0Xp

(4) You open up too early and don't remain sideways long enough on the 2hbh (much better on your 1hbh). Point the back of your right shoulder at the target as if there was an "arrow" pointing out of it. When you complete the stroke and follow through, your chin should be touching (or nearly touching) your left shoulder. Again, think about the baseball hitting analogy.

Sorry for being so long.
Cheers!

 

[DonDiego]

My 2 cents...

The 2hbh is much different than just a 1hbh stroke with an extra hand on the stick. Its a different animal with different technique involved.
Agassi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJXQ69yuMw

Let's focus on just a few things. Anything more than 3-4 things to focus on will make it a much more difficult transition.

(1) Your preparation is poor on the 2hbh. You prepare much earlier on the 1hbh, because you simply have to in order to get your feet in position and to make contact out in front. The 2hbh allows a bit more time since you're making contact closer to the body. This doesn't mean you should slack on preparation.

(2) You have very little racquet take-back on the 2hbh. Your back-swing needs to be much fuller behind you. Right now you're only taking it back somewhere near your ear, just like on your 1hbh. This is why you're seemingly having to "muscle" the ball through the contact zone instead of feeling more fluid and flowing. Take a full back-swing and you'll generate more racquet head speed more easily. The 2hbh stroke should begin with your chin touching (or nearly touching) your right shoulder. Since you're a righty, think about being a switch-hitting a baseball player where they tuck their chin to their shoulder.
Here's you compared to Agassi:
https://imageshack.com/i/knH4Z7znp
https://imageshack.com/i/ipLUpv00p

(3) You're not getting your left arm fully extended at contact and immediately after contact (your right arm can be slightly bent). This causes you to leave probably 20-25% power left on the table. Extend through the contact zone and generate more power.
Here's you compared to Agassi:
https://imageshack.com/i/eyjWHN98p
https://imageshack.com/i/eyxhqxROp

https://imageshack.com/i/f0SpRiL7p
https://imageshack.com/i/ipEkrb0Xp

(4) You open up too early and don't remain sideways long enough on the 2hbh (much better on your 1hbh). Point the back of your right shoulder at the target as if there was an "arrow" pointing out of it. When you complete the stroke and follow through, your chin should be touching (or nearly touching) your left shoulder. Again, think about the baseball hitting analogy.

Sorry for being so long.
Cheers!

Wow.. thanks a lot! This is amazing, and you're spot on.

So much so that the task seems so daunting I think I should stick with my one-hander, who doesn't seem to suffer from any major flaw

Seriously, I will put all this into practice. The ''chin touching shoulder'' should help a lot.

 

[5263]

One thing has frustrated me in my transition to the 2-hander: the difficulty to attack balls, especially weaker ones, and drive them hard for winners as I do with my 1-hander with a certain ease.

But watching a clip of Djokovic made me realize how much he is turning sideways when he wants to rip a ball. I tried that, and while my form is not perfect and I'm still muscling the ball too much, at least now I can feel how it's done, and know that it's possible with some fine-tuning.

Here's a short clip: (I mainly ''drive'' them in the first half and at the very end of the clip... I particularly like the last one https://vimeo.com/106859752

Comments and advices are much appreciated.

IMO too much leaning out on front foot which takes you off balance.

 

[DonDiego]

Yes. Like I said, it's partly because I was trying to go all in and hit powerful winners, these are not regular groundstrokes.

That's why I put out another video (2hands starts at :50) I'm still doing it, but much less exagerated I think. Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

 

[5263]

Yes. Like I said, it's partly because I was trying to go all in and hit powerful winners, these are not regular groundstrokes.

That's why I put out another video (2hands starts at :50) I'm still doing it, but much less exagerated I think. Here's the video: https://vimeo.com/106954114

You are hitting pretty strong there, but I still feel you are too much and early on the front leg.

Jack Broudy talks of how US players in general, don't receive the ball correctly on the Bh so they can get their hips more into the shot. I started watching video looking for this and am inclined to agree with Jack. He's one of the good Cali coaches IMO. When I watch your vid, it makes me think of his point of how so many US players lean in hard and rely too much on the shoulders and arms.

On the other hand, if you like how it works and feels for you, I understand....go with what works!

 

[DonDiego]

On the other hand, if you like how it works and feels for you, I understand....go with what works!

Well, no I don't, that's why I'm happy to read advices such as yours.

The more I think about it -- and it hit me when I read jjsang23 analysis --, the more I realize that the preparation, unit turn and takeback on the 2-hander should be similar to my 1-hander. Whereas I always thought that the 2-hander involved a much shorter backswing, preparation, and a more open stance. Maybe if I replicate the preparation and takeback of my one-hander, but with both hands and correct grip for the 2-hander, my swing would improve? Am I onto something here?

 

[DonDiego]

I couldn't wait and went hitting just before the lights went out.

It DOES make a huge difference! Prepare early, bring the racquet farther back, stay in closed stance longer, all make for a smoother hit and effortless power.

I'm still working on having my left arm fully extended on the hit, but this is good stuff and I feel I'm gonna make this shot into a weapon soon.

And best of all, my left shoulder doesn't hurt. It's been killing me since last week because I hit two handers every day. Must be a sign that I was muscling the ball too much.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

You are hitting pretty strong there, but I still feel you are too much and early on the front leg.

Jack Broudy talks of how US players in general, don't receive the ball correctly on the Bh so they can get their hips more into the shot. I started watching video looking for this and am inclined to agree with Jack. He's one of the good Cali coaches IMO. When I watch your vid, it makes me think of his point of how so many US players lean in hard and rely too much on the shoulders and arms.

On the other hand, if you like how it works and feels for you, I understand....go with what works!

Great point!

This also reminded me that another thing that I'm working on (that l think Don needs to work on) is, instead of thinking of the 2hbh stroke as 2 steps: "take the racquet back, then swing forward"... I have to think of doing 3 things as once:
a) keep taking adjusting steps, then when I'm finally ready to swing, plant my back foot (left)
b) unit turn (eg. take racquet back by turning my shoulders, not just with my hands... cue: at full prep, my chin should be on my right shoulder)
c) on swing: drive off my left foot (weight transfer from left to right), swing high to low, extend fully with left arm... cues on finish: i feel a tiny "snap" on left elbow to indicate i fully extended, chin touching left shoulder),

My tendency is to set up on my right foot, and "fall" or "lean" into the shot, robbing my of power (because there is no weight transfer to reinforce the shot, and I end up using all shoulder/arm), or worse, making it harder to recover my timing/contact point if i'm slightly off.

another drill i do to practice the planting my back foot, is to force myself to hit all my backhands with an open stance... it highlights when I'm setting up too far away from the ball (and also do unit turn and weight xfer - though I also have a tendency to just pivot on my left, vs. xfer to my right while pivoting)... also practice weight xfer by stepping forward (eg. simulate attacking if "early") or diagonal/sideways (eg. simulate countering if "late")

hope this was helpful... it's at least reminded me of what I plan on working on tonight

 

[5263]

Great point!

My tendency is to set up on my right foot, and "fall" or "lean" into the shot, robbing my of power,...... making it harder to recover my timing/contact point if i'm slightly off.

another drill i do to practice the planting my back foot, is to force myself to hit all my backhands with an open stance... it highlights when I'm setting up too far away from the ball (and also do unit turn and weight xfer

hope this was helpful... it's at least reminded me of what I plan on working on tonight

Thanks, and good description about the leaning in.

Your comments on the open stance Bh also highlight why we work the Open stance Bh quite a bit in MTM even though it is fine to get sideways quite a bit when playing. It supports some very important aspects of the Bh.

 

[5263]

It DOES make a huge difference! Prepare early, bring the racquet farther back, stay in closed stance longer, all make for a smoother hit and effortless power.

I'm still working on having my left arm fully extended on the hit, but this is good stuff and I feel I'm gonna make this shot into a weapon soon.

Must be a sign that I was muscling the ball too much.

Sounds like progress, so what do you mean by "extend the left arm fully"?

A reminder about the idea of realizing the Fh and Bh have different contact points. Looks like you are trying to use a Fh contact point on those Bhs to me....too far out and away. It robs you of balance and core power.

 

[DonDiego]

Sounds like progress, so what do you mean by "extend the left arm fully"?

A reminder about the idea of realizing the Fh and Bh have different contact points. Looks like you are trying to use a Fh contact point on those Bhs to me....too far out and away. It robs you of balance and core power.

I'm thinking about what jjsang23 said, quote:
''(3) You're not getting your left arm fully extended at contact and immediately after contact (your right arm can be slightly bent). This causes you to leave probably 20-25% power left on the table. Extend through the contact zone and generate more power.
Here's you compared to Agassi:
https://imageshack.com/i/eyjWHN98p
https://imageshack.com/i/eyxhqxROp''

If you look at the image of Agassi, his left arm is extended at contact.

Are you saying I shouldn't worry too much about that?

Went hitting again this morning, and I must say the ''chin touches shoulder'' is one great tip. Makes me rotate much more and hit topspin backhand a-la-Nadal effortlessly.

 

[5263]

Are you saying I shouldn't worry too much about that?

Went hitting again this morning, and I must say the ''chin touches shoulder'' is one great tip. Makes me rotate much more and hit topspin backhand a-la-Nadal effortlessly.

Mainly just wanted to be clear on what you meant. I don't think it is important for the arm to be straight, but if you like how that feels, then sure, use it. Power should be generated at your core!

Chin at shoulder IS big, but only if you are set to get your hips driving things.