I think it's safe to say by the end of 2024, Sinner is better than Alcaraz. Say if the world just ended tomorrow (or start of 2025).. I think sinner

> 19 yo Alcaraz beats Sinner at USO = Sinner was still in his father's nutsack.
> Alcaraz after an ankle injury, absent forehand, and later after being embarassed at the USO, beats peak Clostebol, twice on HC making a he h2h on HCs 5-2 = Sinner injured, Sinner still an embryo, slow courts, and Sinner is better.
I’ve been here almost 10 years and debated with a lot of people, I’ve never seen someone embarrass themselves the way this guy has. For him to just say that beating Ruud was worse than Sinner beating Fritz made me laugh. Because he literally forgot that Carlos beat Sinner at that very slam! It’s embarrassing. I’d quit the forum and never return!
 
> 19 yo Alcaraz beats Sinner at USO = Sinner was still in his father's nutsack.
> Alcaraz after an ankle injury, absent forehand, and later after being embarassed at the USO, beats peak Mr. Clostebol, twice on HC making the h2h on HCs 5-2 = Sinner injured, Sinner still in embryo, slow courts, and Sinner is better.
I admit I have enjoyed this little back and forth
 
Alcaraz can run hot and cold but at age 21 he already has 4 slams across the three surfaces. One on hard at the USO, two on grass at Wimbledon and one at the French Open. Thus showing us he’s a threat everywhere.

Sinner however is 2 years older and only this year managed to break through at the slams winning 2, both on hard court. He’s shown to be no threat on grass and lost to Alcaraz himself at the French this year and had a number of poor losses there previously.

I just don’t see how he’s better or has a better future than Carlos. Even with Alcaraz’s inconsistency, he’s still shown when he rocks up, he’s better than Sinner. And their H2H of 3-0 for Carlos this year shows it :)
Let's rewind the clocks 12 months;


Alcaraz may be hot and cold, but at 20 years old he already has 2 slams on two surfaces. One on hard courts at the USO and one on grass at Wimbledon. This shows that it is a threat almost everywhere.

Sinner, however, is 2 years older and only this year managed to win the first Masters 1000 and doesn't even have a slam final under his belt.

I just don't see how he can be better or have a better 2024 than Carlos.




Moral of the story, living in the past ignoring the trend of the present, trying to convince yourself that the solidity demonstrated by Sinner between the end of 2023 and the whole of 2024, something that Alcaraz can only dream of for now, does not preserve the focal point of Sinner's superiority in perspective.
Continuity rewards more than anything else.
 
However, the hilarious thing is that the usual "genius" says that Sinner, despite the fact that in 2022 he was the only player to take Djokovic to the fifth set in that edition of Wimbledon, despite the semi-final reached in 2023, and the triumph in Halle in a scoreboard much more qualified than the 500 of the same name at Queen's, and despite an elimination in the QF but in the fifth set after a tight match against Medvedev in which he also had a ailment, after eliminating players like Berrettini or Shelton.

Well, despite all this, according to the usual "genius", Sinner has shown that he is not competitive on grass, while Alcaraz, on the other hand, leveraging the US Open won in 2022, i.e. the slam with the lowest level of the last 20 years, is a threat on hard court despite since then in the hard slams he has collected a severe defeat in sf against Medvedev (Us Open 23), a severe lesson inflicted by Zverev (Australian Open 24) and a severe lesson inflicted by the number 74 of world (US Open 24).

LOL
There really is no limit to the interpretative madness.
 
I also forgot that in the only clash between Sinner and Alcaraz on grass and more specifically on the grass of Wimbledon, Sinner prevailed quite clearly.

Eh but Sinner is not competitive on grass in the same way as Alcaraz is competitive on hard.

AHAHAHAH the multiverse.
 
Let's rewind the clocks 12 months;


Alcaraz may be hot and cold, but at 20 years old he already has 2 slams on two surfaces. One on hard courts at the USO and one on grass at Wimbledon. This shows that it is a threat almost everywhere.

Sinner, however, is 2 years older and only this year managed to win the first Masters 1000 and doesn't even have a slam final under his belt.

I just don't see how he can be better or have a better 2024 than Carlos.




Moral of the story, living in the past ignoring the trend of the present, trying to convince yourself that the solidity demonstrated by Sinner between the end of 2023 and the whole of 2024, something that Alcaraz can only dream of for now, does not preserve the focal point of Sinner's superiority in perspective.
Continuity rewards more than anything else.
Huh?

Alcaraz won 2 more slams this year on two different surfaces further showing us his depth and range while your boy Sinner who’s 2 years older failed and only did well on hard court slams.

And tell me, how is their H2H going this year? Please give me the break down of their matches this year. Was it 1 win to Alcaraz? Was it 2? Was it 3? Or did Sinner beat him? How many for Sinner? Even with the multiple failed doping tests? :) None?

Yeah thought so.
 
I also forgot that in the only clash between Sinner and Alcaraz on grass and more specifically on the grass of Wimbledon, Sinner prevailed quite clearly.

Eh but Sinner is not competitive on grass in the same way as Alcaraz is competitive on hard.

AHAHAHAH the multiverse.
Oh honey if you want to talk about 2 years ago I have some things I want to tell you about the matchup between these two. Because Alcaraz destroys on your boy in every category. Including smoking him at this years French Open on clay, and Beijing on hard, leads that H2H what is it now 6-4? 6-5? Even though he’s 2 years younger, and he didn’t test positive to doping. What a king, doesn’t next Clostebol to beat Sinner.

Where you want to come to next?
 
Huh?

Alcaraz won 2 more slams this year on two different surfaces further showing us his depth and range while your boy Sinner who’s 2 years older failed and only did well on hard court slams.

And tell me, how is their H2H going this year? Please give me the break down of their matches this year. Was it 1 win to Alcaraz? Was it 2? Was it 3? Or did Sinner beat him? How many for Sinner? Even with the multiple failed doping tests? :) None?

Yeah thought so.
Please tell me one by one the points that separate the two currently in the rankings, or rather no, better to avoid, otherwise you would waste hours and hours counting.

Or please list me all the players Alcaraz has lost to in this 2024, here too it might take you a lot of time and patience.

The difference between you and me is that you have to dig into the past to substantiate certain bizarre theses of yours, whereas I limit myself to letting today speak, the present that you deliberately ignore.

Sinner is by far the best player on hard surfaces on the circuit, which would also be by far the most popular surface on the circuit.
So “Houston we have a problem” quote
 
Alcaraz can run hot and cold but at age 21 he already has 4 slams across the three surfaces. One on hard at the USO, two on grass at Wimbledon and one at the French Open. Thus showing us he’s a threat everywhere.

Sinner however is 2 years older and only this year managed to break through at the slams winning 2, both on hard court. He’s shown to be no threat on grass and lost to Alcaraz himself at the French this year and had a number of poor losses there previously.

I just don’t see how he’s better or has a better future than Carlos. Even with Alcaraz’s inconsistency, he’s still shown when he rocks up, he’s better than Sinner. And their H2H of 3-0 for Carlos this year shows it :)
I totally agree with you, I think Carlos is just trying to pace himself and not end up like Nadal, needing to go away for months together to recover from his injuries.
 
Oh honey if you want to talk about 2 years ago I have some things I want to tell you about the matchup between these two. Because Alcaraz destroys on your boy in every category. Including smoking him at this years French Open on clay, and Beijing on hard, leads that H2H what is it now 6-4? 6-5? Even though he’s 2 years younger, and he didn’t test positive to doping. What a king, doesn’t next Clostebol to beat Sinner.

Where you want to come to next?
Six King Slam. My guy beat Alcaraz at that exhibitions. Owned you didn't I?

Plus my guy has 2 wins on HC to the 5 Alcaraz has. All 5 are asterisked.
 
Oh honey if you want to talk about 2 years ago I have some things I want to tell you about the matchup between these two. Because Alcaraz destroys on your boy in every category. Including smoking him at this years French Open on clay, and Beijing on hard, leads that H2H what is it now 6-4? 6-5? Even though he’s 2 years younger, and he didn’t test positive to doping. What a king, doesn’t next Clostebol to beat Sinner.

Where you want to come to next?
I was simply responding to your delusional theory about Sinner not being competitive on grass. While Alcaraz is on hard.
It's the joke of the year put from this perspective.

And in any case, don't worry, it's people like you who rely on the past since there is now a shortage of arguments in the present.

Then you tell me about the 6-4 head-to-head matches as if we were talking about a 10-0.
This year Alcaraz, who is indisputably an inferior player to Sinner, is ahead 3-0.
In recent years, Alcaraz, who was an indisputably superior player to Sinner, was 3-4 behind in h2h.
So?

Surrender to the evidence, in this 2024 Sinner was by far the best player on the circuit, demonstrating a consistency that Alcaraz has never had until now.
The seasonal h2hs, which are all balanced, cannot compensate for such an overwhelming superiority, as they could not do in 2006 for Nadal against Federer.
No sane person would say that in 2005 or 2006 Nadal was a superior player to Federer.

Exactly like that Nadal with Federer, Alcaraz also makes himself ready for the appointment only in moments of maximum inspiration, and then disappears in moments of maximum aspiration of others.
 
I get OP and it makes sense.

Sinner this year has gone past 10000 pts. Alcaraz once reached 9800 but for very short time. He is between 7000 to 9000 till now.

Sinner can realistically be first player outside of big 3 Murray and Pete to reach 12000 , not this year , not early next as well. But maybe sometime in future. That's a very high bar. 5 players in 34 years (since 1990s).
 
Please tell me one by one the points that separate the two currently in the rankings, or rather no, better to avoid, otherwise you would waste hours and hours counting.

Or please list me all the players Alcaraz has lost to in this 2024, here too it might take you a lot of time and patience.

The difference between you and me is that you have to dig into the past to substantiate certain bizarre theses of yours, whereas I limit myself to letting today speak, the present that you deliberately ignore.

Sinner is by far the best player on hard surfaces on the circuit, which would also be by far the most popular surface on the circuit.
So “Houston we have a problem” quote
3-0 H2H this year including at the French Open. Adding 2 slams on 2 different surfaces to his career along with his one on hard that he already had despite being 2 years younger than your boy Sinner. Screams better than me. And that’s before I even reference the multiple failed doping tests by Sinner which question his career.

Alcaraz is just miles ahead :)
 
3-0 H2H this year including at the French Open. Adding 2 slams on 2 different surfaces to his career along with his one on hard that he already had despite being 2 years younger than your boy Sinner. Screams better than me. And that’s before I even reference the multiple failed doping tests by Sinner which question his career.

Alcaraz is just miles ahead :)
All 3 matches were decided by a ball or two


And yes, the score is 3:1
 
All 3 matches were decided by a ball or two


And yes, the score is 3:1
Thus the head to head is 7-5 in favor of the younger Alcaraz. I'm adding the Challenger, pro match they had since you are keen on adding an irrelevant exhibition to boost Sinner's H2h this year.

Also shame that the first two matches in particular had to be that close despite Sinner being roidded to the gill at that time.
 
Alcaraz is 2 years younger, the better athlete, and already has twice the Slams. Unless some freak injury happens, he will have the better career.
 
Alcaraz is 2 years younger, the better athlete, and already has twice the Slams. Unless some freak injury happens, he will have the better career.
The raz sinner rivalry is pretty petty

Raz fans want more than they deserve. They need to take backseat that's it. No excuses. Sinner is 4000+ pts ahead. Shut up don't talk don't do any noise. Thats it.
 
Thus the head to head is 7-5 in favor of the younger Alcaraz. I'm adding the Challenger, pro match they had since you are keen on adding an irrelevant exhibition to boost Sinner's H2h this year.

Also shame that the first two matches in particular had to be that close despite Sinner being roidded to the gill at that time.
An irrelevant exhibition?
It was already clear after the first day that the tournament is very competitive, and we got the final confirmation of that in the match between Novak and Sinner. Alcaraz Sinner was just the icing on the cake. The Laver Cup, for example, is a totally irrelevant competition, but the matches are counted as official. Although this match in Riyadh is not considered official, everyone who watched that event knows that it was at the highest possible level.
 
The raz sinner rivalry is pretty petty

Raz fans want more than they deserve. They need to take backseat that's it. No excuses. Sinner is 4000+ pts ahead. Shut up don't talk don't do any noise. Thats it.
I'm not sure who you're directing the "shut up" to but I don't have a dog in this fight and not on the bandwagon of either. You'd do better to back up and argue with the Alcaraz fans in here.
 
An irrelevant exhibition?
It was already clear after the first day that the tournament is very competitive, and we got the final confirmation of that in the match between Novak and Sinner. Alcaraz Sinner was just the icing on the cake. The Laver Cup, for example, is a totally irrelevant competition, but the matches are counted as official. Although this match in Riyadh is not considered official, everyone who watched that event knows that it was at the highest possible level.
Irrelevant.

Imagine Alcaraz fans being shameless enough to count his win over Djokovic in a pretty serious exhibition last year, towards the h2h.



The roid is getting to their brains.
 
Irrelevant.

Imagine Alcaraz fans being shameless enough to count his win over Djokovic in a pretty serious exhibition last year, towards the h2h.



The roid is getting to their brains.
The exhibition between Novak and Alcaraz last year was not serious, that's the main difference. The exhibition was on par with Alcaraz and Nadal in March this year.
 
Like, last year Djoker legit went 3-1 against Raz. Unlike these Sinner crazies, some of us had enough shame to not say "hehe 3-2 because Saudi exhibition stonks".

What a tragic year for tennis.
 
Like, last year Djoker legit went 3-1 against Raz. Unlike these Sinner crazies, some of us had enough shame to not say "hehe 3-2 because Saudi exhibition stonks".

What a tragic year for tennis.

Yes, I am now quite convinced that you do not know the difference between an exhibition and a real match.
 
3-0 H2H this year including at the French Open. Adding 2 slams on 2 different surfaces to his career along with his one on hard that he already had despite being 2 years younger than your boy Sinner. Screams better than me. And that’s before I even reference the multiple failed doping tests by Sinner which question his career.

Alcaraz is just miles ahead :)
Alcaraz is miles ahead only in your head.
In 10 years you will still be here repeating the same things to yourself while Sinner's consistency will have taken over in an unbridgeable way.

You're just trying to convince yourself that the fact that Alcaraz won two slams on two different surfaces in 2024 is a point in his favor.

I have news for you, Roland Garros and Wimbledon give the same points as the Australian Open and the US Open.

You say that Alcaraz has proven to be more competitive on more surfaces.

I have news for you, tournaments on hard surfaces occupy 70+% of the entire circuit, a surface where Sinner is currently the absolute monarch.

You mention that Alcaraz won a slam even on a hard surface.

I have news for you, the 2022 US Open was a slam weakened beyond belief.
Try to imagine Wimbledon 2022 without Djokovic, maybe Sinner who in the meantime had defeated your Alcaraz, would have won that tournament.
2022 proves nothing.
After the US Open 22, Alcaraz only made pitiful figures in the hard slams.

Can you tell me about the h2h between the two on the hard surfaces which sees Alcaraz ahead 5-2 on the surface most favorable to Sinner.

I have news for you, on natural surfaces, i.e. those most suitable for Alcaraz, Sinner leads 2-1, and is 1-0 on Wimbledon grass.

I have news for you, Sinner is not being investigated by anyone for voluntary consumption of prohibited substances but only for negligence (but I highly doubt you know what this word means).

I have news for you, 3720, they are the current points that divide the 2 in the ranking, everything else is boring.
The truth hurts.
2024, 66-6 and the meter is running, a seasonal record that Alcaraz for now by his own admission can only dream of.

I have news for you, it's going to get worse and worse.
 
This has been beaten to death but I think it's universally agreed that Sinner is the more consistent player with the higher floor while Alcaraz is the more volatile player with higher highs. Alcaraz seems to get up for the bigger matches, which is no surprise because he thrives on the spotlight, while Sinner is far more consistent against the lesser players. Alcaraz better on grass and clay, Sinner better on hard courts the medium to fast in particular.
Alcaraz is more accomplished at a younger age, Sinner has had the better year despite going 0-3 vs. Alcaraz head to head so where it goes from here who knows? Both are young and I'm sure there will be a lot of back and forth for years to come. Anybody who says one is clearly better than the other, well I don't know how one can so easily determine that. It's like The Big 3 arguments all over again.
 
This has been beaten to death but I think it's universally agreed that Sinner is the more consistent player with the higher floor while Alcaraz is the more volatile player with higher highs. Alcaraz seems to get up for the bigger matches, which is no surprise because he thrives on the spotlight, while Sinner is far more consistent against the lesser players.

Alcaraz is more accomplished at a younger age, Sinner has had the better year despite going 0-3 vs. Alcaraz head to head so where it goes from here who knows? Both are young and I'm sure there will be a lot of back and forth for years to come. Anybody who says one is clearly better than the other, well I don't know how one can so easily determine that. It's like The Big 3 arguments all over again.
Universally nothing. Raz fans more vocal. That's it
 
This has been beaten to death but I think it's universally agreed that Sinner is the more consistent player with the higher floor while Alcaraz is the more volatile player with higher highs. Alcaraz seems to get up for the bigger matches, which is no surprise because he thrives on the spotlight, while Sinner is far more consistent against the lesser players. Alcaraz better on grass and clay, Sinner better on hard courts the medium to fast in particular.
Alcaraz is more accomplished at a younger age, Sinner has had the better year despite going 0-3 vs. Alcaraz head to head so where it goes from here who knows? Both are young and I'm sure there will be a lot of back and forth for years to come. Anybody who says one is clearly better than the other, well I don't know how one can so easily determine that. It's like The Big 3 arguments all over again.
And this is good for tennis.
I like these types of discussions. :)
 
So as usual, you have no real rebuttal. If you do have a REASONABLE response that disagrees with my position I'm all ears.
Yesterday you went away from a decent conversation saying I am acting cool. Today this.
Rebuttal nothing for you.
Sinner has reached 11000 pts almost. Only guy to do so apart from big 3 andy murray and pete.

Not this carlos guy yet.
 
Yesterday you went away from a decent conversation saying I am acting cool. Today this.
Rebuttal nothing for you.
Sinner has reached 11000 pts almost. Only guy to do so apart from big 3 andy murray and pete.

Not this carlos guy yet.
Ok but did you see this portion of my post? Sinner has had the better year
A lot of his points were built up this year, he's had a great year no doubt but it's also worth nothing that it came with a 0-3 head to head vs. Alcaraz.

Also, purely point accumulation over a small sample size isn't the sole determination for who the better player is. A lot of that point accumulation includes non-slams so context is needed when citing it.
 
Ok but did you see this portion of my post? Sinner has had the better year
A lot of his points were built up this year, he's had a great year no doubt but it's also worth nothing that it came with a 0-3 head to head vs. Alcaraz.

Also, purely point accumulation over a small sample size isn't the sole determination for who the better player is. A lot of that point accumulation includes non-slams so context is needed when citing it.
Who won more in slams ? Sinner

And i would say its idiotic to say non slams is non tennis. It is tennis. In fact its far larger pool of tennis than just 8000 pts from slams which is highly skewed if draws open up.
 
Only players already in GOAT conversation like Djokovic and Nadal could use the slams as defense. Because they have already earned that right.
Not a 21 year old player. Alcaraz is just starting and has youth on his side.
 
I think he’s always been better. Way more consistent. He just had a tough year with the doping stuff and injuries/sickness. Next year will be different. He could win all 4 slams if he isn’t suspended
 
Who won more in slams ? Sinner

And i would say its idiotic to say non slams is non tennis. It is tennis. In fact its far larger pool of tennis than just 8000 pts from slams which is highly skewed if draws open up.
They won 2 slams each, Alcaraz 1-0 against him in Slams.

I didn't say that non slams don't count but they don't count as much as slams do, that's just a fact. Points accumulation isn't the sole determining factor for who the better player is. Murray in his prime was a guy that racked up a crazy amount of points because he played in every tournament pretty much and was consistent in the smaller tournaments but slams are what really shape the legacy. Right now, slams are 4-2 in favor of Alcaraz and he still has the Masters lead despite being 2 years younger so while Sinner had the better year (even though he went 0-3 against Alcaraz) and has done some catching up, Alcaraz is still the more accomplished player. That's not such a controversial stance to take. Where they go from here nobody knows but it'll be fun to follow this rivalry regardless.
 
The Alcaraz Sinner ‘debates’ are turning out to be the Temu version of the Big 3 online arguments. Unending dribble.
 
They won 2 slams each, Alcaraz 1-0 against him in Slams.

I didn't say that non slams don't count but they don't count as much as slams do, that's just a fact. Points accumulation isn't the sole determining factor for who the better player is. Murray in his prime was a guy that racked up a crazy amount of points because he played in every tournament pretty much and was consistent in the smaller tournaments but slams are what really shape the legacy. Right now, slams are 4-2 in favor of Alcaraz and he still has the Masters lead despite being 2 years younger so while Sinner had the better year (even though he went 0-3 against Alcaraz) and has done some catching up, Alcaraz is still the more accomplished player. That's not such a controversial stance to take. Where they go from here nobody knows but it'll be fun to follow this rivalry regardless.
Wrong answer is sinner won more in slams. He doesn't have a humiliating r2 exit like raz.
 
Alcaraz can run hot and cold but at age 21 he already has 4 slams across the three surfaces. One on hard at the USO, two on grass at Wimbledon and one at the French Open. Thus showing us he’s a threat everywhere.

Sinner however is 2 years older and only this year managed to break through at the slams winning 2, both on hard court. He’s shown to be no threat on grass and lost to Alcaraz himself at the French this year and had a number of poor losses there previously.

I just don’t see how he’s better or has a better future than Carlos. Even with Alcaraz’s inconsistency, he’s still shown when he rocks up, he’s better than Sinner. And their H2H of 3-0 for Carlos this year shows it :)
It will take Alcaraz some time to find his best form indoors. I do believe he will get there though
 
Yea 4>2 Slams including Slams on all 3 suraces, 3-0 h2h this year including 2-0 on HC and also Alcaraz is 2 years younger than Sinner which is huge at this stage of their careers, it's like comparing 2005 Fed to 2003 Fed or 2009 Nadal to 2007 Nadal.

Sinner needs to pray on Alcaraz on having off days, because that's the only thing he can win anything meaningful these days, because once Alcaraz cleans his act up he's gonna clean Sinner's clock.
 
Wrong answer is sinner won more in slams. He doesn't have a humiliating r2 exit like raz.
Big whoop. Who cares if Sinner went further in a slam if he didn't win it. Alcaraz also beat Zverev and Djokovic in his two finals while Sinner beat Medvedev and Fritz. Also, Alcaraz was 3-0 against Sinner in real matches (two on Hard Courts) and 1-0 in slams. Slam count was 2-2. Sinner had the better year, Alcaraz still equalled him in slams and swept the head to head in his "down year" against a Peak Sinner.
 
Big whoop. Who cares if Sinner went further in a slam if he didn't win it. Alcaraz also beat Zverev and Djokovic in his two finals while Sinner beat Djokovic and Fritz. Also, Alcaraz was 3-0 against Sinner in real matches and 1-0 in slams. Slam count was 2-2. Sinner had the better year, Alcaraz still equalled him in slams and swept the head to head in his "down year" against a Peak Sinner.
Who cares

Everyone cares

If results don't matter then let's stop watching. You can stop pretending to be fan of the game if results don't matter.
 
Yea 4>2 Slams including Slams on all 3 suraces, 3-0 h2h this year including 2-0 on HC and also Alcaraz is 2 years younger than Sinner which is huge at this stage of their careers, it's like comparing 2005 Fed to 2003 Fed or 2009 Nadal to 2007 Nadal.

Sinner needs to pray on Alcaraz on having off days, because that's the only thing he can win anything meaningful these days, because once Alcaraz cleans his act up he's gonna clean Sinner's clock.
Trust me boy, there is very little you can do against the disconcerting solidity that Sinner is increasingly assimilating into his game.
Obviously he too can be beaten, and the seasonal h2h with Alcaraz proves it.
But the technical and mental solidity that allows you to always maintain a consistently high level, you either have this or you don't.

You look too much to the past when you should instead focus more on an unmistakable TREND.

67-6, this is a record almost worthy of the best seasons of Federer and Djokovic, all having to live since last April with the strong stress generated by the positivity and all the various procedural dynamics.
Doing all this when a high level professional should simply have a clear head to perform at his best is crazy.

Anyone who understands a minimum of the dynamics of tennis knows perfectly well that Alcaraz is destined to be the most flashy in the dualism, while Sinner is the most successful.
Question of tennis DNA.
 
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